Continued media bombardment on asking for more pay
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The ongoing media bombardment on our senses as to why their pay should increase.
A few interesting points about LHL's argument which many in cyberspace have more or less debated and found wanting
1. Salary increase = competent honest government
2. Benchmark = fallacy, do ALL lawyers earn 4.29M. Who are the ones included in both benchmarks. Can the same senior PS, minister, AO who have been in the service for as long as they have to gain experience and seniority be as easily "hunted"? Why use lawyers when the speech mentioned mainly those who are in their early 30s being drawn to financial services? What are the statistics of turnover during those "critical years"? Can the benchmark be made more transparent?
3. Without the ministers == will the civil service (a fine-tuned bureaurcratic machinery) fail to function. Quote "'Unless there is a first-class political leadership and judiciary, the Civil Service, however capable and dedicated, will not be able to function properly,' he said."
This is a testable hypothesis and the 1994 "crisis" year is a natural experiment. With "all" the critical and good people leaving, did the civil service fail to function? What was the impact of those who left on the overall performance of the government? From my layman perspective, nothing great happened. Can the government and civil service provide reports detailing the loss of talent on the performance of the government?
4. Accordingly, these top talent are supposed to provide cutting edge public policy as per quote "With Singapore now operating near the 'leading edge' in public policy, public-sector leaders cannot rely on the best practices of other countries, but have to break new ground and find fresh solutions." Yet we read of one account after another of study trips that our government civil servants taking overseas to learn from the best overseas (whose civil servants are much poorly paid and by their logic, functioning at sub-par levels). See our ERP system -- adopted from Europeans? transportation system - getting aussie consultants? Errmm... something is lost in the whole speech that I am not getting.
Can someone enlighten me?
PM discloses the wide gap and urgent need to retain talent in public sector
By Lydia Lim, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT
Mar 23, 2007
The Straits Times
TOP private-sector salaries have surged ahead of those in the public sector and Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong revealed last night just how far the pay of ministers and civil service leaders has fallen behind.
A minister should be drawing $2.2 million a year or more, according to benchmarks approved by Parliament in 1994 to ensure competitive salaries for a competent and honest government.
But their actual salaries have fallen to 55 per cent of the benchmark, that is $1.2 million, and 'we have to close this gap', Mr Lee said last night.
He did not say if ministers' pay will be raised fully to this amount, or when it will go up. Details of the salary changes across the civil service will be announced in Parliament on April 9 by Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean, who oversees the public service.
Speaking at the annual Administrative Service dinner, Mr Lee explained that salaries had to be reviewed so the public sector can keep its share of talented Singaporeans.
'This is an urgent problem. We have experienced on previous occasions the painful consequences of responding too slowly when the private sector surged ahead,' he said.
In the 1990s, this led to the Administrative Service, the key service from which most public sector leaders are drawn, losing entire cohorts of young and good officers.
Administrative Officers (AOs) in their early 30s are at a 'critical decision point' in their careers, and the Government must keep their salaries market competitive to retain the able ones.
Today, their salaries are in line with the private-sector benchmark created for this group. But with salaries for young professionals moving up, especially in the financial sector, Mr Lee expects salaries in this group to 'soon come under pressure'.
Fast-growing salaries explain why the Government has embarked on a review of civil service salaries covering all services where pay has fallen behind the private sector.
Also important is to review the salaries of ministers, judges and statutory appointment holders such as the Attorney-General and Auditor-General, said Mr Lee.
'It is even more critical for us to keep these salaries competitive, so as to be able to bring in a continuing flow of able and successful people to be ministers and judges.
'Unless there is a first-class political leadership and judiciary, the Civil Service, however capable and dedicated, will not be able to function properly,' he said.
Ministerial and top public sector salaries have been pegged to those of top private-sector earners since 1994, when Parliament debated and approved the use of benchmarks to ensure the public sector continued to attract its share of talent, and to provide for regular adjustments to keep pace with private-sector earnings.
There are two benchmarks or formulae spelling out how the salaries are to be pegged.
The first is the MR4 benchmark for ministers and senior permanent secretaries.
Yesterday, the Public Service Division released data on the median incomes of the top eight earners in the six professions to which MR4 salaries are pegged. Lawyers earned the most, with a median income among the top eight of $4.29 million.
The second benchmark is the SR9 benchmark for top AOs in their early 30s.
Mr Lee mapped out how in the years since 1994, the 'scramble for talent' has become a global phenomenon.
Talented Singaporeans are now being head-hunted by top global companies as well as by other governments keen to replicate the Singapore success story.
Top students are turning down government scholarships as their families or universities were willing to fund their education.
At the same time, the demands on high-quality governance have gone up, as a result of globalisation and a more advanced economy, he said.
With Singapore now operating near the 'leading edge' in public policy, public-sector leaders cannot rely on the best practices of other countries, but have to break new ground and find fresh solutions.
First-class people are therefore needed to anticipate problems, come up with creative solutions and lead teams.
He said 'first-class governance' which can be provided only by a top-grade public sector was a 'sustainable advantage' that Singapore should 'zealously uphold'.
While public officers must serve from a sense of idealism and duty and not be motivated mainly by financial reward, they should not be expected to make 'unreasonable financial sacrifices' to be in public service, he added. -
*yawn*.
Waste of time. Waste of anything. If they wanted to raise the damn thing, just do it and stop trying to console themselves that they are doing the right thing or anything.
Just do the damn thing and be done with it. Seriously, does anyone in Singapore really care anymore? -
Well if he doesn't think that the civil service can function without him and his ministers, then would that not indicate that the civil service is not really up to par and cannot deal with changes?
I don't see private organisations stop functioning when their CEO leaves. Or the economies of developed countries collapse when there is a change in government.
If he thinks the civil service is that bad, then why is he upping their salaries?
Mee siam mai hum?
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People working in the public sector should not be primarily motivated by pay but more by their desire to serve the country. Thus if someone joins the public sector because the pay is attractive, his motivation is wrong and it is unlikely that he will be committed to put in his best........ he will be serving money and not the country!
Not surprising if that fella runs and betrays the country to another that offers him more wealth!
People in the public service are already pretty well-paid in my opinion. If they want more pay, then they should be joining the private sector. Public services are cost centres and not primarily profit-generating anyway.........
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i agree.Originally posted by :People working in the public sector should not be primarily motivated by pay but more by their desire to serve the country. Thus if someone joins the public sector because the pay is attractive, his motivation is wrong and it is unlikely that he will be committed to put in his best........ he will be serving money and not the country!
Not surprising if that fella runs and betrays the country to another that offers him more wealth!
People in the public service are already pretty well-paid in my opinion. If they want more pay, then they should be joining the private sector. Public services are cost centres and not primarily profit-generating anyway.........
they should join the private sector if all they care about is money.
performance in the private sector is based on clear cut results - profit!!!!
how do our govt appraised the ministers' performance? -
We ministers, must raise our salary by 100% in order to fight corruption and retain talent. Singaporeans need to take lower salary in order to remain competitive against FTs. Increase GST by 2% is to help the poor. We are considering to raise the retirement age to 65. We have no problems with Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand Losing 4billion on Shincorp has nothing to do with the Govt. IMF meeting was a resounding success. We need tighten media control, the world press stating that we have 148th worst media is nonsense. We give a lot of freedom. All opposition wards do not get any upgrading or funding because the govt does not have enough money. $500k is peanuts. NKF corruption has nothing to do with the Govt. Welfare is a dirty word We increase the electricity bills even though oil prices have gone down now is because we foresee that the oil prices will go up again Our beloved president deserves the pay raise(2.7m excl. allowance) as he is the president for 2 terms uncontested, that shows that he is popular and well-loved. By a chorus of MPs: "The budget is heaven made of compassion and generous. It is the best budget i ever seen." ERP has been very effective in traffic controlling We created 550,000 jobs, average salary has rise up, employment is all time low. Theres a happy mood everywhere within Singaporeans Get out of my elite uncaring face -
haha. den believe dem lo.Originally posted by pinkish purple papayas: We ministers, must raise our salary by 100% in order to fight corruption and retain talent. Singaporeans need to take lower salary in order to remain competitive against FTs. Increase GST by 2% is to help the poor. We are considering to raise the retirement age to 65. We have no problems with Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand Losing 4billion on Shincorp has nothing to do with the Govt. IMF meeting was a resounding success. We need tighten media control, the world press stating that we have 148th worst media is nonsense. We give a lot of freedom. All opposition wards do not get any upgrading or funding because the govt does not have enough money. $500k is peanuts. NKF corruption has nothing to do with the Govt. Welfare is a dirty word We increase the electricity bills even though oil prices have gone down now is because we foresee that the oil prices will go up again Our beloved president deserves the pay raise(2.7m excl. allowance) as he is the president for 2 terms uncontested, that shows that he is popular and well-loved. By a chorus of MPs: "The budget is heaven made of compassion and generous. It is the best budget i ever seen." ERP has been very effective in traffic controlling We created 550,000 jobs, average salary has rise up, employment is all time low. Theres a happy mood everywhere within Singaporeans Get out of my elite uncaring face
for the opposition upgrade, dey didnt say dat dey dun have enough money, dey juz said their priority will be last dats all.
govt need to be more open on shincorp matter.
for ERP, i dun dare to say anything, because i dun drive, but i think somehow is effective?
minister pay matching to private sector? well, pple has been debating this for decades, when our then prime minister mr Lee Kuan Yew thinks that minister needs to be well paid so dat dey would nt be corrupted and do their work well. for this point, well, he noes pple are money minded. actually nt because of corruption or wad, but certainly, some of the brainest pple will be attracted over to the private sector. in some area, u need gd pple to run the govt.
"We created 550,000 jobs, average salary has rise up, employment is all time low. Theres a happy mood everywhere within Singaporeans"
this is rubbish actually. yes, unemployment rate might have gone down but happy mood everywhere?...HA....
"We increase the electricity bills even though oil prices have gone down now is because we foresee that the oil prices will go up again"
if oil prices gone down to 40 USD per barrel, dey better adjust prices back..."
well....for other issues.....hmm.... -
another self applaud speech, what to do,
i give up bashing about government policy
till one day, i will jolly well, just emigrate to another country
and forsake this god damnation country
left it to rot for its own good -
ever rising pay and yet the lives of the bottom 80% are like pathetic...
It's time to leave this country...I'm not against raising their own pay...after all what can we do.....forget it....we have given up and are leaving this country
let them run this country full of FTs, PRCs and INdians......we will make a better life for ourselves elsewhere -
Originally posted by hiphop2009:
job created this include those staying in Old age home resident.
[b]"We created 550,000 jobs, average salary has rise up, employment is all time low. Theres a happy mood everywhere within Singaporeans"
this is rubbish actually. yes, unemployment rate might have gone down but happy mood everywhere?...HA....
.[/b]
their name being used as employed staff, as most of them Singaporean senior citizen, thus able to employ FT, with these quota Singaporean senior citizen.
every Senior citizen only require S$28.00 per month CPF contribution.
MOM & MCYS please sit down together to clear this problem -
the irony is that this discussion in the minister's 'celery' are a no-no discussion issue, so why does he have to give so much reasons for the increase in the minister's salary? after all isn't it still a non-discussable debate? y talk so much and make ppl blood boil har??
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It feels good to tell people if you make a million dollars a year, doesn't it?Originally posted by 4getmenot:the irony is that this discussion in the minister's 'celery' are a no-no discussion issue, so why does he have to give so much reasons for the increase in the minister's salary? after all isn't it still a non-discussable debate? y talk so much and make ppl blood boil har??
Same principle applies here. -
we don't approve their pay or increment. They are going to approve it anyways. So why bother to tell us and put up a show about it.
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66.6% of Singaporeans have unwittingly agreed to this increase. Say what you want, there are 66.6% of idiotic Singaporeans supporting them...
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66.6% of Singaporeans have unwittingly agreed to this increase. Say what you want, there are 66.6% of idiotic Singaporeans supporting them...
ah.. but the thing is these 66.6% have no idea about the GST increase and the minister pay rise then. idiotic is not the right word to use here..
what would be idiotic is if 5 years on, perhaps after a "progress package" of somewhat, ppl forget about what happened 5 years earlier..
that would seriously not only be idiotic but downright stupid. -
I guess that is what is so frustrating about the whole "democratic" process ... when there are policies that are so obvious and so blatantly against the public interest, there is no channel whatsoever for the common man on the street to voice out against and take serious real action.Originally posted by mistyblue:we don't approve their pay or increment. They are going to approve it anyways. So why bother to tell us and put up a show about it.
Frankly, can the opposition in the parliament veto this move? As someone in another thread mentioned, it is the minister who are in charge of the committee looking into this pay matter. And as other who cleverly posted a snippet from Animal Farm, this is the situation of asking the fox to look after the chicken coop.
So ... what can we as citizens/netizens do about this? -
It's $600K. $500k is peanuts.
And yeah, I do hope they just do it and shut the hell up. No need to tell us anything. The more they say the more I shake my head. -
We need tighten media control, the world press stating that we have 148th worst media is nonsense. We give a lot of freedom.
Actually, there is something very simple that we can do. So simple that it probably has been overlooked by many pple cos they are too caught up in the rat race, and it has been ingrained into our lifestyle that we find it hard not to do it. i refer to reading of the local papers.
Stop reading local papers. Read The International Herald Tribune,The Washington Post, New York Times, etc..any foreign papers as long as its not from sph.
It seems such an easy task to do but not many can do it cos we have been "engineered" to get our daily dose of info from ST,TNP cos of accessibility and convenience. Foreign papers are more expensive but are readily available in libraries.
Has anyone ever wondered the degree of bombardment we get frm the papers and how they easily influence pple who accept everything they read (which is sadly,the case for many s'poreans) ? And wats more, it is subconscious. Example is when 'A' lvl results were released,on a pg of the section, 80% of the pg is dedicated to straight As students while maybe less than 20% is abt average students. And who can forget the '4As-only-gal-who-cried-like-its-the-end-of-the-world' ? Wat is media trying to prove? Wat abt issues like FTs,Employment,Wages,GST etc..?
We cant stop media from publishing wat they(gahmentt) wan us to read, but we have a choice NOT to read it. Y allow ourselves to get brainwashed (subconsciously) ?
Juz food for thought.. -
Put the content and topics aside.
U know as much as everyone know this is not easy to put it to the public and a very undersirable topics among the public. It is either he put up a brave front and take the leads for this unpoluar topics. Or he is totally in denied. -
Which is why I always wondered why they even bothered to indulge in this charade when the average moron in Singapore has already resigned himself to mediocrity instead of diversity and whether they raised or lowered mattered nothing. At the end of the day people will just leave and never look back and instead rather gloat at people staying behind who are going to continue their suffering.
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I hope my family comes over to Australia by the end of this year. At least I am not in Singapore paying taxes to feed the salary of ministers who ALL DO NOT deserve such a pay raise and I WILL NOT COME BACK AND HELP PAY TAXES TO THEIR SALARY . They are not running a large federated system of States and Territories - they are just running a freaking small country.
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Why is it that the apathetic automatically vote them? Since they could not care less, why don't they vote in a few more that cares?Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:*yawn*.
Waste of time. Waste of anything. If they wanted to raise the damn thing, just do it and stop trying to console themselves that they are doing the right thing or anything.
Just do the damn thing and be done with it. Seriously, does anyone in Singapore really care anymore? -
So being the highest paid politicians in the world isn't enough and now they're trying to convince to see things from their obscenely skewed perspective?
OK fine.. Since our economy is doing sooo well that even such already well-paid people should get a pay rise, Why do we still have to be content with developing countries' salaries while our politicians are paid more than what even developed countries pay their politicians?
Instead of trying to argue that our highest-paid-in-the-world ministers need a pay raise, why don't they fight to raise the pay of regular hardworking Singaporeans who are still struggling with their below-market-rate salaries, which by the way have stagnated over the last 5 years while civil serpents salaries keep on increasing?
Fantastic.. this govt is constantly giving me reasons to migrate for good!! -
They will tell you... go lor... we will replace you with foreigners... if all those the went had stayed and voted against them, I doubt that they will have so many seats in parliament and we will not suffer such oppression...Originally posted by spinsugar:Fantastic.. this govt is constantly giving me reasons to migrate for good!!