NS for women?
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From AWARE's website:
5.National Service
Women are not required to serve National Service, which is compulsory for men. Because they have given 2-3 years of their lives to the nation, men enjoy salary and tax benefits. Many also develop a network of friends that can be advantageous in their work life.
GovernmentÂ’s Rationale
Asian parents do not want their daughters to go through national service.
AWAREÂ’s Comment
The principle of equal treatment should apply in all areas. If young men are asked to give 2-3 years of their life to the nation, so should women. The concept of National Service should be broadened. In keeping with the principle of Total Defence, women drafted for NS – and men unsuitable for military service – can serve the nation in many other ways.
Proposal
Women and men should be called up equally for compulsory national service. They should have the choice of military or non-military service and there should be no hierarchical distinctions for either arm of NS. Measures should also be taken to eliminate sexual stereotyping and any possibility of sexual harassment while young Singaporeans serve their National Service. -
I repeat female National Service is giving birth.
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Women doing NS sounds excellent. It doesn't have to be a military option. They should have the opportunity to decide. Apart from Israel, any other countries that dictate women should do NS, even a military one?
http://www.thevoiddeck.org[url] -
To repeat what I've stated in another thread:
"Conscripting Singaporean women into non-combat vocations in the army, or into the civilian sectors such as nursing serve the purpose of freeing up more men into combat vocations as well making up manpower shortfall? And if NS is so good for fostering national identity like its proponents always claim it does(very subjective IMO), why foster national identity in Singaporean men and not women?"
There are sectors, in and out of the army, who could really do with a boost in manpower which will be brought about by women in NS.
CenturionMBT, the about-face by AWARE is in one word, stunning. Just a few months ago, when the announcement was made that guys who've serve NS get extra points for consideration in uni entry, AWAREs website was full of vitriol condemning the move with the gist of the comments being, "So guys need to serve NS, big f***ing deal, why should men get all these extra perks, just proves what a sexist/misogynistic/paternalistic/out-of-touch place Singapore is etc etc". Take note, that was the gist of the comments, not the actual comments itself...
I wonder why the flip-flopping? -
call me skeptical but i still think its overkill...
yes, SAF suffers from shortfall of manpower, but are u sure that they require TWICE the number they have now???
it will be expensive, unnecessary and inefficient.
i think the the current shortfall is more due to inefficiency in managing human resource than actual quantitative shortfall. if this inefficiency persists, i don't see how inceasing the quantity of manpower available by 100% will actually lead to more effective operation.
what is the problem ultimately? one of the issues is that too many irresponsible guys are pulling a fast one and getting downgraded.
on top of that, MINDEF seems to have a peculiar habit of not allocating manpower according to their physical capabilities.
hence, we have PES A clerks who do nothing all day, and PES C pending riflemen who just might crash out halfway through their term of service.
attrition due to training incidents are not that high actually... it depends on where u are but thats nothing we can do about. making safety more of a concern then it already is now would make training unrealistic and ineffective. NS is not a boys scout camp.
u can't post in a new rifleman halfway through a unit's training cycle... it happens sometimes, but is that effective?
the law of comparative advantage states that resources (be they human or material) are seldom perfectly substitutable. hence, increasing the pool of manpower to include women won't actually remedy the situation.
u want a meaner, leaner army, the way to go is to maximise the productivity of the organisation so that enough people do the work much better and people are allocated work which they are capable of performing effectively. u can't just add more people and expect productivity to rise accordingly.
in the same way, how would increasing the pool of people to include females help if they are to be allocated to non-combat vocations IF it is combat vocations who require the most manpower?
the men freed up from non-combat vocations may not actually be fit for combat vocations in the first place.
so what happens? u end up with TWICE as many clerks and medics and storemen and still not enough riflemen...
and opening combat vocations to females would open another can of worms altogether... even the US is not too thrilled to do that cos of psychological effects women in combat might have to their male peers.
not that i'm a sexist misogynists, but these are very real issues involved when contemplating NS for women.
either way, there is no real need unless u're contemplating issues like nation building or equal opportunities.
than again, would anyone contemplate providing equal opportunities if its gonna cost a lot more money and have not much to show for? -
I agree with the part about the lousy way CMPB allocates manpower. I'm a technician, and where I just came out from, (OETI), I see quite a few trainees which would send shudders down the spine of any 5-tonner driver. Serious! My batch had 2 gong-siao nutcase (screw a little lose type) technician-trainees, and according to my instructor, there was once a case when CMPB even sent 1 guy with a cleanliness fetish here!Originally posted by CX:what is the problem ultimately? one of the issues is that too many irresponsible guys are pulling a fast one and getting downgraded.
on top of that, MINDEF seems to have a peculiar habit of not allocating manpower according to their physical capabilities.
hence, we have PES A clerks who do nothing all day, and PES C pending riflemen who just might crash out halfway through their term of service.
(oh, he spent 80% of his time washing his hands instead of doing work) Will you believe this kind of shit? CMPB will really have to get their act together..... if not....tsk tsk. -
that's essentially what i'm getting at... some people in my batch became PES A clerks and COPA while some who posted over to infantry battallions had asthma, heart murmurs and arm, leg, back, etc etc problems.Originally posted by YourFather:I agree with the part about the lousy way CMPB allocates manpower. I'm a technician, and where I just came out from, (OETI), I see quite a few trainees which would send shudders down the spine of any 5-tonner driver. Serious! My batch had 2 gong-siao nutcase (screw a little lose type) technician-trainees, and according to my instructor, there was once a case when CMPB even sent 1 guy with a cleanliness fetish here! (oh, he spent 80% of his time washing his hands instead of doing work) Will you believe this kind of shit? CMPB will really have to get their act together..... if not....tsk tsk.
what's the logic in that? would bringing in women solve that problem? i don't think so...
MINDEF seriously needs to re-examine the way they manage their conscripts especially since there's a perceived shortage of manpower.
bringing in women in not the solution. it just leads to a bigger mess and a larger scale cock-up if MINDEF remains so careless in their management of human resource. -
From straits times:
Women serve the nation too
MEN and women have different roles to play in life. Men are generally the protectors and women, the nurturers.
In a significant way, women in Singapore have always gone through national service, even before the Government introduced it for men. They have carried babies in their wombs, given birth to them, breastfed them and brought them up, sometimes jointly with their husbands and sometimes not, as the case may be.
And for every baby born, this 'national service' amounts to many more days, weeks, months and years than any man puts in for compulsory NS.
At least men in NS get their beauty sleep. Who is the more likely to get up in the middle of the night to feed, clean or soothe the infant?
And the Government is asking women to have more babies. That is a woman's service of love to her country. So do not say she is shirking her responsibilities!
Most of the time, women are the cooks and the 'maids' as well in their families.
For those women who have to work to supplement their spouse's income, it is an added responsibility.
Women also get the blame when the children do not do well in school.
So please, men, do your homework - and do not knock our contributions. We are dancing as fast as we can.
ANGIE WEE
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Comments pls? -
Here's another:
Fertility rates could be affected
I REFER to Mr Han Yong Yuan's letter, 'Women should do national service as well' (ST, Nov 15).
At first, I agreed that in the interests of equality of the sexes and giving women the same benefits men enjoy, women should take on some national service responsibility.
But such a move should be taken with extreme caution and forethought.
As it is, we are facing a severe fertility crisis because working professional women are putting off getting married and getting pregnant in favour of establishing a career first.
I believe that the median age of marriage is increasing, as is the age of those giving birth for the first time. Indeed, the number of childless couples, from personal experience as well as reports, is quite worrying, spawning a multi-million-dollar industry in fertility treatments.
If national service were to be implemented for women, it must be for at least 12 months for it to have any meaningful effect on Singapore as well as themselves.
Then, we would be looking at an additional delay before these women get married and become mothers.
If because of higher qualifications, like the A levels for men, the NS stint is extended by six months, the delay in bearing children would be further extended.
This could mean that when these women finally want to have children, they could run into fertility problems associated with conception at non-optimal ages, which they may not have encountered a mere 12 months earlier.
Singapore could be faced with a worsening baby shortage.
Looking at the current situation, we do not have the critical mass of population that would be able to absorb any delay in producing of babies in favour of implementing national service for women, no matter how fair it may seem.
MICHAEL LOH YIK MING -
If women are doing their National Service. Why is Singapore birth rate so lowOriginally posted by CenturionMBT:From straits times:
Women serve the nation too
MEN and women have different roles to play in life. Men are generally the protectors and women, the nurturers.
In a significant way, women in Singapore have always gone through national service, even before the Government introduced it for men. They have carried babies in their wombs, given birth to them, breastfed them and brought them up, sometimes jointly with their husbands and sometimes not, as the case may be.
And for every baby born, this 'national service' amounts to many more days, weeks, months and years than any man puts in for compulsory NS.
At least men in NS get their beauty sleep. Who is the more likely to get up in the middle of the night to feed, clean or soothe the infant?
And the Government is asking women to have more babies. That is a woman's service of love to her country. So do not say she is shirking her responsibilities!
Most of the time, women are the cooks and the 'maids' as well in their families.
For those women who have to work to supplement their spouse's income, it is an added responsibility.
Women also get the blame when the children do not do well in school.
So please, men, do your homework - and do not knock our contributions. We are dancing as fast as we can.
ANGIE WEE
_____________________________________________________
Comments pls?
Weird having babies is a women's service of love to her country. I thought having babies was to start a family with someone you love and possibly hoping when you become old your children will take care of you. -
Then guys who make women pregnant are serving national service too.So why we serving twice huh?Anyway,if women mai give birth how?Send to DB for desertion of duty huh?hahaaOriginally posted by want to know:I repeat female National Service is giving birth.