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Malaysia to stop purchasing treated water from singapore

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  • tripwire's Avatar
    2,470 posts since Feb '01
    • http://business-times.asia1.com.sg/latest/story/0,2276,68779,00.html?

      YEAH!!!!!!!!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

      Now we can divert those money saved from subsidising malaysian to build more Newater plant or desalination plant in singapore.....

      I call on the malaysian govt to show us their resolve in stopping buying singapore water by.... OFFICIALLY and PUBLICLY disassemble the pipe that is currently being use to send water from singapore to johor!!! Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green

      Out of all the sorrow and sad news... a silver linning admist the clouds... Wink Wink Wink Laughing

  • whack's Avatar
    76 posts since Jul '02
    • the malaysians have been planning that all along that’s why they can try to jerk us around now with all their obstinance to be reasonable in the water deal.

  • NDU's Avatar
    1,273 posts since Apr '01
    • Originally posted by whack:
      the malaysians have been planning that all along that's why they can try to jerk us around now with all their obstinance to be reasonable in the water deal.

      u r rite..... KNN, they behave like fox hor???

  • kanzer's Avatar
    178 posts since Nov '02
    • don't buy better still.... read somewhere that the spore govt is subsidying the treated water sold to JB....... so much so that they actually sold the water at a profit.....and they still dare to accuse us of selling water at a profit!!!!!!

      anyway, this is part of their plan.....all this they dare not bring up the price of untreated water sold to spore because they are afraid that the spore will raise the price of treated water sold to them...... ever since they have decided to raise the price of untreated water, they must have decide then not to buy anymore treated water from spore since that will give them an advantage in the water talks....... what i am fuming is that after all the years of developing the water plants in johor, the msians are saying that at the expiry date of the first water pact in 2011, they will take over all the PUB water plants............ F*** them..... if they want them, they have to buy from PUB...... if that is the case, maybe we should nationalise the tanjong pagar train terminal..... and tell KTM to F*** off...... at the same time, we can also solve the CIQ issue......

  • ` ~ `
    Atobe's Avatar
    8,715 posts since Oct '02
    • CNA reported the Johor Mentri Besar as saying that their new water plant in Kota Tinggi would cost them about RM400million to produce their requirement of 65million gallon of water daily.

      Over a 20-year amortizing period, the plant will cost them RM20million a year or RM1.7million per month.

      At 65million gallons per day, each gallon will cost them 0.026 sen, or RM26.00 per 1000 gallons.

      At present, the Mentri Besar claim that they are paying Singapore RM5million a year for subsidized water, this will work out to be RM417,000 per month (compared to their financial cost of RM1.7million a month for their own Treatment Plant).

      Our Government has claimed that while we are buying RAW WATER at 0.03sen per 1000 gallons, we are selling TREATED WATER to Johor at a subsidised price of 0.50sen per 1000 gallons (compared to their cost of RM26.00 per 1000 gallons).

      I am sure the Mentri Besar has got something to be proud of.

      One wonder if their attempts to teach Science and Mathematics in English – starting from 2003 – is a little too late.

      Edited by Atobe 07 Jan `03, 3:54AM
  • paulho's Avatar
    221 posts since Dec '02
    • Actually the way I see it, this is a good way for them to step down from the stage without losing face.

      The other option would be international courts, which will look at the contract facts, international courts will take long time to decide but in the end they will likley lose face anyway, also once international courts decides their hands will be tied forever and it will be very difficult for them to drum it up again if they lose .. ie if they do so, international community will view it as bullying or aggression.

      The last option will be to pass law to void all the contracts which will definately lead all the way to war because our independance may be somehow toed to the water deal will be in question .. ie contracts void will singapore still belong to malaysia izzit?

      hence if that happens, singapore will fight to the end for survival, johore kanna annex, we inherit all the infrastructure plus 2 extra ports and become a true container hub able to handle all the excellent cargo volumes(one third of world cargos or 600 ships pass thru this area evry single day). Resolve our water issue, land scarce problem and population declining issue permantly. Msia can forget abt any 2020 vision and balek kampung.

      This way they can potentially avoid all that, step down save face and close the damn issue but drum it up in another way as needed in the future.

      Personally I'm glad this is all over.

      Edited by paulho 07 Jan `03, 5:17PM
  • CX's Avatar
    1,926 posts since Apr '02
    • Originally posted by paulho:
      Personally I'm glad this is all over.

      dream on... its far from over. their issue is with selling us untreated water, not with buying treated water from us.

      until we stop buying or until they find a way to stop supplying, the problem will continue for years to come!

  • NDU's Avatar
    1,273 posts since Apr '01
    • Originally posted by Atobe:
      CNA reported the Johor Mentri Besar as saying that their new water plant in Kota Tinggi would cost them about RM400million to produce their requirement of 65million gallon of water daily.

      Over a 20-year amortizing period, the plant will cost them RM20million a year or RM1.7million per month.

      At 65million gallons per day, each gallon will cost them 0.026 sen, or RM26.00 per 1000 gallons.

      At present, the Mentri Besar claim that they are paying Singapore RM5million a year for subsidized water, this will work out to be RM417,000 per month (compared to their financial cost of RM1.7million a month for their own Treatment Plant).

      Our Government has claimed that while we are buying RAW WATER at 0.03sen per 1000 gallons, we are selling TREATED WATER to Johor at a subsidised price of 0.50sen per 1000 gallons (compared to their cost of RM26.00 per 1000 gallons).

      I am sure the Mentri Besar has got something to be proud of.

      One wonder if their attempts to teach Science and Mathematics in English – starting from 2003 – is a little too late.

      you sure abt it??? wah lan... dont think their ppl know abt this lah.... if not they wont kpkb mer? ..... opsss... btw, malaysia sch got teach MATH anot? Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green

  • whack's Avatar
    76 posts since Jul '02
    • Originally posted by Atobe:
      CNA reported the Johor Mentri Besar as saying that their new water plant in Kota Tinggi would cost them about RM400million to produce their requirement of 65million gallon of water daily.

      Over a 20-year amortizing period, the plant will cost them RM20million a year or RM1.7million per month.

      At 65million gallons per day, each gallon will cost them 0.026 sen, or RM26.00 per 1000 gallons.

      At present, the Mentri Besar claim that they are paying Singapore RM5million a year for subsidized water, this will work out to be RM417,000 per month (compared to their financial cost of RM1.7million a month for their own Treatment Plant).

      Our Government has claimed that while we are buying RAW WATER at 0.03sen per 1000 gallons, we are selling TREATED WATER to Johor at a subsidised price of 0.50sen per 1000 gallons (compared to their cost of RM26.00 per 1000 gallons).

      I am sure the Mentri Besar has got something to be proud of.

      One wonder if their attempts to teach Science and Mathematics in English – starting from 2003 – is a little too late.

      haha that's the central problem they can't read and count. oh and also forgetful. that's why they don't want to sign any new agreements and tend to break current deals.

    • Originally posted by NDU:
      u r rite..... KNN, they behave like fox hor???

      ya. they are always up to no good and are actually the ones that cannot behave as proper neighbours and honour legal international treaties they signed.

  • paulho's Avatar
    221 posts since Dec '02
    • Originally posted by CX:
      dream on... its far from over. their issue is with selling us untreated water, not with buying treated water from us.

      until we stop buying or until they find a way to stop supplying, the problem will continue for years to come!

      hey bodoh! what I mean is this chapter is over.

  • ` ~ `
    Atobe's Avatar
    8,715 posts since Oct '02
    • Unfortunately, the Chapters continues - as taken from http://www.asiaone.com

      History of water - according to Utusan Malaysia
      Utusan Malaysia ran a series of articles recently on the water agreements between Singapore and Malaysia. They provide an insight into Malaysian thinking on the agreements, their view of history, and their perceptions of the reasons for the current impasse in the water talks. We publish below translated excerpts from these articles - 'Free Water for Singapore' (Jan 6); 'Serve the notice so as to take over water plants' (Jan 7); and 'The fact is that it should be after 25 years' (Jan Cool.

      HISTORY

      ORIGINALLY, Singapore was part of the sovereign territory of the Johor-Riau-Lingga Malay sultanate. However, on Aug 2, 1824, Singapore became a British colony when Sultan Hussein and Temenggong Abdul Rahman agreed to cede the island to the British 'in perpetuity'.

      -- MIEL
      Singapore changed from a Malay fishing village into the leading Chinese city in the region.

      However, Singapore faced two big problems. First, it does not have sufficient water supply. Second, it is small.

      To overcome the water problem, Singapore signed three agreements with Johor, in 1927, 1961 and 1962.

      As a neighbour who cares for the needs of its 'relatives' in Singapore, Johor agreed to supply water to the Republic.

      THE 1927 AGREEMENT

      THE Johor state government provided 2,100 acres of land at Gunung Pulai as a water catchment area for Singapore.

      Singapore had rights over the area for 21 years and was required to pay only 30 sen per acre annually, said Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia's Historical, Political and Strategic Studies Centre chairman, Professor Nik Anuar Nik Mahmud.

      However, he said, the 1927 Agreement made no mention of how much Singapore must pay for the water.

      "What is clearly stated is only the rent for the land; and this gives rise to the question of whether Singapore received its water supply for free," he said.

      On the other hand, if Johor wanted to receive water treated by the Singapore Municipal Council, it had to pay 25 sen per 1,000 gallons and the amount could not exceed 1,200 gallons daily.

      THE 1961 AND 1962 AGREEMENTS

      THE water price was fixed only when Singapore was given the right in 1961 to draw 86 million gallons daily from Skudai and Tebrau rivers for a price of three sen per 1,000 gallons until 2011.

      The 1962 Agreement stipulated that Singapore could pump up to 250 million gallons of water daily from Johor River at the same price.

      The Johor government agreed in 1961 to allow Singapore to use 120 acres of its land for 99 years, and in 1962, a further 341 acres for 99 years, for a payment of RM5 per acre.

      Prof Nik Anuar said that unlike the water price that could be reviewed after 25 years, there was no clause stating that the payment for the use of the land could be reviewed.

      But the agreements have clauses stating that in the event of a dispute over water issues, both sides must refer the case to an arbitrator.

      WATER AND SEPARATION

      PROF Nik Anuar said that the separation of Singapore from Malaysia did not affect the latter's commitment to supply water to the Republic.

      The Malaysian government agreed to include Article 14 in Annex B of the Agreement on Separation, providing assurances that the Johor government would respect all conditions and responsibilities agreed to in the 1961 and 1962 Agreements.

      Singapore, ever suspicious and cautious, registered the agreement with the United Nations Charter Secretariat Office on June 1, 1966.

      "In the minds of the Singapore leaders, their country is constantly under threat and that is why they decided to register the agreement; but after having done that, they still do not feel safe," said Prof Nik Anuar.

      Singapore thinks that Malaysia will violate the agreements and cut off water supply, on the basis of a statement that Tunku Abdul Rahman made to Lord Head, the British High Commissioner to Kuala Lumpur, on Aug 9, 1965.

      "If Singapore's foreign policy is prejudicial towards the interests of Malaysia, we can apply pressure on the country by threatening to shut off the water."

      Prof Nik Anuar said the first Malaysian Prime Minister's statement should be viewed in the context it was made … that is, if Singapore established ties with Indonesia while Malaysia and Indonesia were engaged in the Confrontation.

      Thus, this "aimless" concern of Singapore is totally baseless.

      JOHOR SHOULD TAKE BACK WATER WORKS

      SINGAPORE was given the right to manage the water catchment area in Gunung Pulai for 21 years by the 1927 Agreement.

      Though the 21 years has lapsed, Singapore regained its rights to the area in the 1961 and 1962 Agreements.

      Prof Nik Anuar said that the Johor government had the right to take over the water works in the Gunung Pulai catchment area by giving four years' notice to the Singapore Government. He said: 'The Johor government need only pay service charges agreed by the two sides if it wants to take over the works.'

      Prof Nik Anuar regards administrative jurisdiction over the area as enabling the Johor government to use its discretion to fix a new price for water that the Republic must agree to, whether it likes it or not.

      Edited by Atobe 21 Jan `03, 12:59AM
    • The chapter continues:-

      THE CURRENT IMPASSE

      THE water issue arose again when Singapore stated that it wanted to continue the water agreements for a further period but refused the fixing of new rates by the Malaysian government.

      Singapore only agreed to pay 45 sen up to 2011 and 60 sen from 2011 to 2061, and the same rate for 100 years thereafter.

      Malaysia said Singapore must pay 60 sen from 2002 to 2007, with the price rising to RM3 by 2011, and the same rate to be maintained 100 years thereafter.

      WATER AS CASUS BELLI

      SINGAPORE Senior Minister Lee Kuan Yew has on occasion reminded Malaysia's top leadership that Singapore would not hesitate to go in and defend the water catchment areas in Johor in an emergency in order to ensure that Singapore continued to receive its water supply.

      Prof Nik Anuar said this attitude and mentality is dangerous because the country that has supplied water to the Republic since the 1920s without any interruption is being viewed as a potential enemy.

      He said a British Foreign Office officer, Ms Veronica E. Feign, had made a statement that a Singapore leader had told her secretly that 'if Malaysia attempts to amend the terms of the agreement, Singapore will see it as an act of war'.

      Prof Nik Anuar believed that there was a link between this statement and the current scenario.

      'Is the fact that Malaysia's insistence on a review of the water price will be viewed as an act of war the reason why Singapore refuses to agree?' he asked.

      SINGAPORE WILL NOT BE DEPENDENT FOR EVER

      PROF Nik Anuar is certain that Singapore is not happy that a large amount of its water supply lies in the territory of another country.

      Not surprisingly, the leaders in the Republic felt it necessary to have their own water resources, and introduced various steps to ensure that their country will not remain dependent on Malaysia for ever.

      Water demand in the 1970s was 100 million gallons daily, rising to 145 million gallons in 1977, and is estimated to reach 400 million gallons in 2010.

      If Malaysia-Singapore ties stay normal, Singapore will be seriously dependent on Johor for its water supplies by that time.

      However, after becoming confident that it has taken all the steps necessary (to reduce its dependence), the Singapore Government decided not to renew the 1961 Water Agreement, which will expire in 2011. The move will reduce water imports from Johor from the current 350 million gallons daily to 250 million gallons.

      Singapore made the decision as it opined that it had the capacity to provide 100 million gallons of water daily to its citizens using the modern reverse osmosis filtration system called Newater and the distillation of seawater.

      The decision means that after 2011, Singapore would be dependent on only one water agreement, the 1962 Water Agreement.

      PRICE REVIEW

      QUITE apart from its confidence in its ability to produce its own water resources, Singapore has never really agreed with Malaysia's proposal for a review of the water price to a more reasonable level.

      If there is no price review, it means Malaysia must be happy with rates that perpetuate the big losses it currently incurs. More annoying is the fact that Singapore sells the water at prices that gives it huge profits.

      Initially, in the prosper thy neighbour spirit, Malaysia did not raise the issue of a price review 25 years after the signing of the agreement.

      Singapore has also demanded that (if there is a price review) the price of the water treated and sold to Johor at 50 sen per 1,000 gallons, should also be increased.

      Singapore's strategy is clear - to make big profits every step of the way. But Malaysia is adamant that history will not repeat itself.

      THE 25-YEAR RULE

      SINGAPORE seems bent on defending its stand that Malaysia has lost its right to review the price of water. It is adamant that Malaysia's right had lapsed in 1986 and 1987.

      However, Singapore argues at the same time that the Republic also has a right to review the price of treated water if Malaysia insists on a review of the raw water price.

      This gives rise to the question of whether Singapore will agree to a review only if the conditions benefit it.

      Singapore is also seen as trying to delay agreement on the price review by insisting that the water issue be resolved together as a package with other issues, while Malaysia seeks to resolve the issues separately.

      The country's leaders believe that Malaysia has the right to a price review because of legal provisos requiring that it be made after 25 years have passed and not in 1986 and 1987.

      SM Lee agreed the right existed when he visited the Malaysian Prime Minister twice to discuss the matter.

      He proposed that the water price be reviewed to 45 sen (per 1,000 gallons) and the price be maintained until 2011. In other words, he accepted the need to review prices and realised that the three sen fixed in 1961 was not a suitable price.

      NO INTENTION TO CUT OFF WATER SUPPLY

      MALAYSIA has never had any intention to cut off Singapore's water supply, and the water from Johor has flowed to the Republic from the 1920s regardless of the political temperature between the leaders of the two countries.

      The water supplied to Singapore is actually more than enough for the needs of the Republic. In fact, Singapore is known to sell water to ships anchoring in its port at a much higher price to make large profits.

      Singapore must recognise Malaysia's right to review the price of the water supplied to the Republic before holding new talks on the matter.

      The government will certainly not consider Singapore's proposal that the water supply agreement be made to last in perpetuity.

      For the sake of regional political stability and living as neighbours, Singapore should see Malaysia as its sibling, although they are now separated.

      This shows how creative the MALAYsian Newspapers can be in making over events to suit their own point of views.

      Edited by Atobe 21 Jan `03, 1:02AM
    • This is the response from Straits Times to the article published by the Utusan Melayu:-

      What the paper didn't say

      THE paper accuses Singapore of profiting from the water it buys from Malaysia.

      The basis for this accusation is the price Singapore charges ships that dock in its harbour for the water it supplies them.

      But water sold to ships accounts for less than 1 per cent of Singapore's annual consumption - and there is no reason to assume this water comes from the Johor River, not Pierce Reservoir.

      There is ample evidence, however, that Johor profits from the treated water it gets from Singapore.

      Under the terms of the 1961 and 1962 agreements, it is entitled to buy15 million gallons of treated water daily, at 50 sen per 1,000 gallons.

      It has been buying 37 million gallons instead (22 million more than it is entitled to) and selling to its own people at an average price of RM3.95 (S$1.80) per 1,000 gallons.

      As it costs Singapore RM2.40 to treat 1,000 gallons, the Singapore taxpayer in effect subsidises Johor to the tune of RM1.90 per 1,000 gallons, while the Johor government reaps a profit of RM3.45.

      It is precisely because of this that the Malaysian government did not re-negotiate water prices in 1986 or 1987, as it was supposed to, not because it felt particularly 'neighbourly', as Utusan says.

      Johor State Assembly Speaker Zainalabidin Mohamed Zin has acknowledged as much, saying on July 3 last year that the Johor state government had not made a mistake in not pressing for a review in 1986.

      There was no point in doing so, he argued, because Johor was dependent on Singapore for its treated water and Singapore would have increased its price if Johor had charged more for raw water.

      Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad made the same point on Oct 11 last year, explaining that Malaysia had not insisted on a price review in 1986 because Singapore would have revised the price of treated water in response.

      Utusan makes much play about Singapore refusing to consider a price review.

      It fails to mention that it had been prepared to do so once - if the matter had been negotiated as part of a package of issues, including the supply of water beyond 2061.

      That was the basis of the tentative agreement Senior Minister Lee Kuan Yew reached with Dr Mahathir in September 2001.

      Singapore agreed to pay 45 sen for water purchased under the current agreements; and accepted Malaysia's offer of 60 sen for future raw water for 100 years after 2061, with the price to be reviewed every five years for inflation.

      Note, the 60 sen was Dr Mahathir's offer, not something SM Lee plucked from thin air, a fact that the Malaysian leader acknowledged recently.

      He said he changed his mind later when his officials told him Malaysia could get a higher price.

      They had the cake, and they refused to eat it
      .

  • BillyBong's Avatar
    4,467 posts since Dec '00
    • What's new?

      Mahatir is just trying to step down from his post with a string of victories to his name. PTP port, price of water, Tanjong Pagar railway station, use of their airspace, cancelling their purchase of treated water from s'pore, and now Preda Branca.

      Just too bad that he has FAILED to achieve anything so far. Hope he leaves govt without a "medal " to show for....

      Greedy ppl......

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