Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by stupidissmart @ Sat, 16 Aug 2008 23:18:05 +0800

stupidissmart — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 23:18:05 +0800

I think the above report is a bit different from wat I observe. People r still trying to find HDB flats rather than private housing because the price is much lesser. The recent Build to order flats r pretty attractive

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Sat, 16 Aug 2008 22:48:24 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 22:48:24 +0800

World's best public housing?
Sorry not now

Singapore's public housing - arguably the world's best - looks expensive, maybe a little tattered. By Seah Chiang Nee

In 42 years, the Housing Development Board (HDB) has built homes for 85 per cent of the population and helped to turn a squatter colony into a First World.

Its renowned work is not just bricks and mortars; it has changed and molded lifestyles of millions. What else can it do?

Some two decades ago, as Editor of the Monitor, I instituted several "think tank" groups to discuss public issues in Singapore to improve the newspaper's coverage.

One was public housing. Someone raised the eventual prospect of HDB housing reaching saturation point and an over-supply that could cause a price collapse in the secondary market.

Have we reached this point? No.

These are still pioneering days for Singapore. Its history is just beginning. In 30 years, its population could read six or seven million.

That would call for a doubling of homes over the next quarter century with HDB provided the majority of them. It is still needed to erect (reasonably) cheap housing and refurbish old estates.

But the building pace in future will not match the hectic past (one unit every 45 minutes at its peak)

So why are Singaporeans turning their backs on one of the world's most renowned public housing schemes?

Several reasons. Firstly, a declining birthrate and with almost nine-tenths of the people properly housed The public need for HDB apartments has declined substantially through the past decade.

Secondly, the public taste has changed.

The younger generation does not just want a subsidised flat like their needy parents. It wants one in a choice area comparable to some of the high standards of a private condo.

And thirdly, the sad state of the economy, which is depressing property prices. Since 1996, they have fallen by more than 30 per cent. The weakness is not over, not for a while.

In contrast, the prices of HDB flats, which are largely decided upon by the government, have decreased much less.

As a result the gap between public and private properties has been declining to a state when buyers are beginning to find HDB products unattractive.

It has made up for it by erecting better-designed blocks to meet upgraded expectations, cutting down on bothersome regulations. But pricing disadvantage remains a tough obstacle.

Some people have called for the closure of HDB, but it will not happen because its task of providing "affordable" housing to Singaporeans is never-ending.

The government is now revamping the whole scheme, long admired by foreign governments east and west for giving this city the highest home ownership in the world.

The revamp may bring in a bigger role for private developers. Ten years ago, the long-term plan was to have 70 percent people owning public housing, 30 percent private (current ratio 85:15).

"Private developers can gauge market changes better than the government," said one official.

The famous long queue of applicants for HDB flats has all but disappeared. During its peak, an applicant could wait several years before getting a unit.

Young Singaporeans have developed a love of living in the city centre and refurbished estates with bright lights, exciting shopping and train stations.

This demand is driving many first-time buyers to leave the queue to buy resale units in a choice locality.

As a young reporter, I had watched how HDB living had molded people's lives that got representatives from all over the world to come and study it.

As society developed, the HDB had to cater for different needs of different people, the middle class and the poor. It also had to keep up with advancing design, technology and higher costs.

Today, singles prefer studio flats, as do retired couples whose children have moved out. All have special needs. Many don't like to live in new estates in the suburbs.

Some of these unwanted and empty blocks stand like ghostly giants at night. If the HDB were a private company, it would have to reduce prices.

Despite perky designs and steady deregulation, HDB flats are still disliked for being too uniformed, restrictive and lacking sophisticated facilities that yuppies like.

"No one wants to live in a numbered block - like prison cells," exclaimed an undergraduate.

For S$100,000 to S$150,000 more, professionals would rather buy a private condo with a sophisticated address, a swimming pool and security guards.

Not surprising, the total number of applicants in line has dropped to 11,000 as at February.

At the peak, the figure was 146,000.

If they are not picky, every one of them can have a flat today.

There are 17,500 unsold flats in new towns with a value of S$4.4bil. In addition, HDB is offering 1,900 resale units in popular mature estates.
This is having an indirect impact on the private property market.

Many buyers are "upgraders" who need to sell their HDB apartments in the secondary market before they can go private with top-up financing. This in turn is putting pressure on private condos.

The HDB role is not at its sunset but its future role may be slightly different.

It will probably respond to market pressures for a review which will allow the private sector to play a bigger role in public housing because it is better placed to react to market changes.

The government has announced that a comprehensive examination is under way. It will take one or two years.

Two objectives will be retained: encouraging property ownership and providing good "affordable" housing for the population.

So why not simply lower HDB prices to clear stock?

Poor option. The government, which owns 70 per cent of Singapore's land, is the state's biggest property owner and developer.

If it brings down HDB prices, it will impact the whole property market and wipe out the value of the biggest assets among Singaporeans.

HDB property is responsible for making Singapore a relatively wealthy middle-class society. HDB prices form a psychological price tier of Singapore's housing pyramid.

Any price cut would spill over to the private sector and eventually have an impact on the assets of its citizens.

The depressed conditions have caused a sharp cutback in supply. The government last year built only 8,000 units, compared to 21,000 in 2000 and 37,744 in 1995.

The cloud hanging over the property market is not likely to clear for another two or three years until the backlog clears.

That will see a gradual return of strong run-up of demand and prices. Then - and only then - will the supplier of public housing becomes all-important to the eyes of property buyers.
Seah Chiang Nee

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by maurizio13 @ Sat, 16 Aug 2008 20:56:21 +0800

maurizio13 — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 20:56:21 +0800

lionnoisy,

The kind of views you put forth here shows the kind of upbringing you have in Singapore.

Are you a graduate? Are you even an 'A' Level graduate for that matter?

You are entitled to your extreme form of anti-Australian views, I am not like P4P, persecute views different from mine.

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by maurizio13 @ Sat, 16 Aug 2008 20:52:59 +0800

maurizio13 — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 20:52:59 +0800

I feel sad for lionnoisy that he has to criticise another country to let Singapore look good.

What kind a man does that?

It's like your neighbours telling the other neighbours how bad you are, extremely deplorable behaviour.

I don't know what kind of metal illness you have that made you the way you are.

What's next? Are we going to see an Australian kangaroonoisy criticising Singapore's authoritarian regime?

There is much more to live than just economics, having lots of food but being encaged like a prisoner wouldn't be much better than a free man without food.

Some prefer being caged animals while others prefer freedom.

To those Australians reading this forum, the views of "lionnoisy" is his and only his alone, I don't think any other forumers agree with his view.

lionnoisy is like a Nazi in sgForums.

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by crimsontactics @ Sat, 16 Aug 2008 20:41:23 +0800

crimsontactics — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 20:41:23 +0800

Actually, the most important aspect of being a PR in another country, be it Oz or Sg, is that you are happy staying there.

No one country is ever really safe from crimes and financial disasters

Who knows, our "prosperious" country may one day face a crisis.

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by lionnoisy @ Sat, 16 Aug 2008 18:04:07 +0800

lionnoisy — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 18:04:07 +0800

again.

I dunt know it is tip of iceberg or a isolated case.

Share price of A OZ property listed company drops from A$4 in

earlier this year to 0.27 yesterday!!

http://au.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=CIY.AX&t=my&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24185038-25658,00.html

City Pacific First Mortgage Fund distributions suspended

U can say one swallow does not make a Spring.

Up to you.This is your money.

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by stupidissmart @ Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:01:50 +0800

stupidissmart — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:01:50 +0800

tis en bloc issue is a matter on crime rate of singapore

it is not about housing

However take note without concrete information on who is the doer, there is little the police can do. Maybe someone should suggest wat should the police do to prevent such cases from happening

Tis is particularly true since most of the cases r private housing who should employ their own security guards

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Sat, 16 Aug 2008 12:54:47 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 12:54:47 +0800

OTHER CONDO BULLIES

LAGUNA PARK

Six cars belonging to residents were vandalised in the past two weeks. Two were damaged with corrosive liquid. Another had black paint splashed on it. Some cars were also scratched.

All the victims were opposed to the en-bloc sale.

BAYSHORE PARK

Residents were sharply divided after an en-bloc agreement was proposed this year.

One meeting in May to elect a committee to take charge of en-bloc sale matters was disrupted by shouts and jeers.

An anti-en-bloc resident who asked 'too many questions' was silenced by pro-en-bloc heckling, prompting the chairman of the management committee to threaten to end the meeting.

FARRER COURT

Before an en-bloc meeting last December, anonymous letters were circulated to convince residents opposed to the sale that their blocks had bad fengshui, and would bring bad luck to residents.

A 73-year-old resident on the en-bloc committee also had the windscreen and bonnet of his car damaged.

NEPTUNE COURT

En-bloc meetings last year were not pretty to watch. One resident said those in favour of the sale would 'shout and boo at dissenters, usually the older residents'.

'You come home from the meetings very stressed. We have lost all sense of value and respect for the elderly,' she lamented.

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Sat, 16 Aug 2008 12:54:05 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 12:54:05 +0800

How can this happen in Singapore?

CONDO RESIDENTS WHO OPPOSE EN BLOC RECOUNT 'PINUSHMENT' TORTURED BY BLOC HEAD BULLIES

PHONE LINE CUT
MERC BADGE RIPPED OFF
CARS SCRATCHED
RUDE MESSAGE ON DOOR
ONE resident's Mercedes Benz badge was ripped off and stolen. Another had a poster plastered on his front door, with the words 'Trouble Maker' on it. 04 August 2008

ONE resident's Mercedes Benz badge was ripped off and stolen. Another had a poster plastered on his front door, with the words 'Trouble Maker' on it.

Yet another resident's telephone stopped working. And when he went outside to check, he discovered that someone had cut his phone line.

Say hello to a new form of neighbourly harassment that has reared its ugly head in several condominiums around Singapore, following the en-bloc fever that began last year.

Upset by some of their neighbours' refusal to endorse en-bloc deals, which could result in instant windfalls for some owners, these condo bullies resort to cowardly acts of vandalism to torment their neighbours.

As one aggrieved resident put it: 'This is really uncivilised behaviour.'

Last week, it was reported that at least six cars had been vandalised at Laguna Park since en-bloc discussions began. They all belonged to residents opposed to an en-bloc sale.

In the wake of the Laguna Park incidents, Singaporeans living in other private estates are coming forward with similar horror stories. At least two other condominiums have supposedly been hit by such bullies.

Some of its residents told The New Paper on Sunday of bullying acts - some uncivil, others plain criminal.

One such resident is Mr Tan Keng Ann, who owns an apartment at Green Lodge estate, a condominium along Toh Tuck Road.

Some of the 80 apartment owners there have been pushing for an en-bloc agreement for years. But Mr Tan was among those who resisted.

'I don't even read some of the proposals that were put out, because I have no intention of selling,' the 60-year-old cosmetics distributor said.

He bought his apartment in 1984 and lived there for a decade before moving elsewhere. He has been renting out the apartment.

Mr Tan claimed that from late 2006, residents opposed to the en-bloc sale had become targets of a variety of pranks and bullying tactics.

In December that year, someone pasted a poster on his door with the words 'Trouble Maker', he said. At that time, no one was living in the apartment, as the previous tenant had just moved out.

'If I had a tenant, you can imagine how it might have affected my relationship with him,' he said.

In the same month, Mr Tan's neighbour, who also opposed the sale, woke up one morning to find the badge of his Mercedes Benz missing.

The two made police reports together. Mr Tan said the police came and took fingerprint samples from his neighbour's car.

The New Paper on Sunday could not reach his neighbour, who is on an overseas trip.

Mr Tan said: 'I feel very angry. If you have any problem, as a neighbour, you should come and talk to me, instead of resorting to such acts.'

Green Lodge's en-bloc attempts have so far gained the approval of about 70 per cent of owners, falling short of the 80 per cent required under law.

Mr Heng Chee Tong, 32, a civil engineer, who lives at Lakeview Estate along Upper Thomson Road, said someone twisted off the radio antenna of his Toyota Altis last August after he declined an en-bloc deal.

He spent $50 to fix it and made a police report.

Four neighbours who rejected the en-bloc sale told him their cars were scratched.

Another said his telephone line outside the apartment was deliberately cut, Mr Heng told The New Paper on Sunday.

'Why are (these culprits) trying to harass other people into selling their apartments?

'There shouldn't be any coercion into making a decision. We should be more civil about the whole exercise. But now, there is a spirit of animosity in our estate.'

Mr Heng said that pro-en-bloc neighbours who used to talk to him when they met in the lift have since turned cold or hostile.

Two en-bloc attempts so far - in January and August last year - by Lakeview Estate's residents have failed. Both had about 60 per cent support.

A nature lover, Mr Heng intends to stay put in his apartment.

'The location is so good. It is central, and it is close to MacRitchie Reservoir.'

Property agents contacted by The New Paper on Sunday said that tension from en-bloc discussions is nothing new.

Mr Andrew Lin, an agent, said: 'There will definitely be hostility, because some want to sell and some refuse to.'

Another agent Francis Ngiam said en-bloc meetings by residents have been known to be heated, with some residents even making banners to express their strong views.

However, both said that resorting to illegal acts, such as car vandalism, is still relatively rare here.

Psychologist Kit Ng, director of The Centre for Psychology, said these condo bullies are not like common vandals 'who go around carparks painting cars'.

He said these vandals are 'seeking to create fear in others by sending a message that 'something will happen to you if you don't comply'.

Dr Elizabeth Nair, who heads Work & Health Psychologists, said that anger can turn even professionals and well-educated people into bullies.

And when they are upset over a perceived attempt to ruin their chances of getting a windfall from a property sale, the anger could just cause them to lose their heads.

Elgin Toh, newsroom intern

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Sat, 16 Aug 2008 12:53:05 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 12:53:05 +0800

More En Bloc troubles...

David vs Goliath: Airview Towers Sale Dismissed by High Court

One man versus an estate worth $202 million, including top lawyers Harry Elias Partnership, well known enbloc agent DTZ Debenham Tie Leung, and Bukit Sembawang Estates. And Mr Ken Lee, representing himself, won against Goliath and got the sale kicked out. You can read the articles here.

What happened? Where did it go wrong? The case hinges on a clause in the CSA and the deadline of 12 mths to get the 80% majority consent. The CSA clause regulates the rights of a signatory (someone who signs the CSA) to sell their unit, after they have signed the CSA. In the case of Airview, according to the news report, 2 owners had signed the CSA and then decided to sell their units. The buyers however, only signed the CSA after the 12 mth deadline, even though they had "agreed all along to the sale". The SC and their lawyers argued that their late signing should not penalise the entire sale, because "their failure to sign was due to 'mistake or inadvertence' and so was a technicality". Justice Lee Seiu Kin however ruled that the 12 mth deadline must be adhered to, and if any one misses the deadline, they cannot be counted towards the 80%.

Why would anyone sell their flat, some might ask? Why get out of such a windfall?

For various reasons - urgent need to sell (eg emigration, business despatching family overseas), or owners wishing to capitalise on the enbloc fever. Say a person bought their flat for $1m, and it's now going enbloc and he stands to gain $1.8m. He puts it on the market for $1.4m; any buyer stands to gain $0.4m and that owner transfers the risk of enbloc sale collapsing to the buyer; owner gets a guaranteed 'windfall' of $0.4m while buyer accepts possibility of getting $0.4m.

What clause is this in the CSA, that forces this buyer to join the enbloc majority?

This one, which you should find in most CSAs (with some variation):-

Each of the Selling Owners (people who signed the CSA) hereby represents, warrants and covenants as follows:-
... not to do any of the following from the date of signing this agreement by each of the Selling Owner in respect of his strata unit:
(a) grant an option to purchase
(b) sell
(c) agree or contract to sell
(d) assign or transfer by whatever means;
unless third party/parties having such benefit thereof shall also join in as a party to this Agreement by signing the same forthwith or any Supplemental agreement if required by the SC; provided that the particular Selling Owner shall indemnify the other Selling Owners from any claims, losses, damages and/or otherwise arising therefrom.

A variation I've seen includes a condition, that this sale must be subject to the approval of the SC (yes, they rule your life). What this clause means is that if you signed the CSA, you can only sell your unit to someone who MUST agree to sign the CSA AND any other documents required by the SC. It also means that the seller is responsible for any claims or damages if anything botches up. But is this fair? Why should you as a seller, if you have legit reasons to sell, be held responsible if the managing agent and/or lawyers do not follow up on the sale and chase the new owners to sign the CSA? Why should you also be penalised for signing the CSA, by having such a clause that effectively limits the potential number of buyers (or worse, they must be approved by the SC)? Shouldn't the onus be on the marketing agent and SC to convince the new buyers to sign the CSA, rather than it be your job?

It remains to be seen what's the aftermath of the Airview Towers dismissal - will the 2 unit sellers get into trouble? Will Bukit Sembawang sue the majority owners, like in Horizon Towers? Will the 2 unit buyers get into trouble for not signing the CSA in time? Will Bukit Sembawang let the sale slide, as the news report suggests?

What cannot be denied though - that it is rather sneaky of the managing agent and/or lawyer for the SC to brush off the late signing of the CSA by the 2 unit sellers, as a mere 'technicality'. They really should have known better.

Moral of story - Be careful of what you sign. If the 2 unit owners never signed the CSA, they would not have gotten into any trouble that they might be in now.

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Sat, 16 Aug 2008 12:44:35 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 12:44:35 +0800

You are targeted not because you are put to a higher standard in here, but because you have proven yourself to be of a forumer of LOW standards.

Your posts and threads are monolouges, you pay no heed to good english, basic reasoning, as well as common sense. Practically speaking your only way of operating in here is to keep on spamming with as many posts as possible while not answering the real questions and glaring loopholes pointed out in your paper-thin case and trying to drown out all meaningful discussion with the sheer volume of copy-and-paste articles from the media.

Unfortunately for you I am currently taking a course in journalism and I can tell you for sure this is not the way the media is supposed to be used. In fact for such the media mogul you claim to be you have a very horrible grasp of any of the basic tenets of the creeds of journalism and instead resort to yellow journalism in here and calling those things "facts"

So why are you targeted? That is because you are a bane to the quality of this forum while I am just a bane to your threads.

Redirecting your threads to something that improves the quality of this forums, namely to stop going in circles over your silly media articles on Australia that nobody is really interested in and the en-bloc and property woes in Singapore, which everybody in here is interested in, is improving the quality of this forum.

Hence of course you are targeted, in fact one might say that redirecting your threads to something more relevant and useful, as well as improving the quality of this forum is something to be ENCOURAGED.

I think you will realize that nobody will bother to help you if your threads are posted with stuff you consider to be irrelevant. This is because your threads and posts are irrelevant to virtually everyone in here to begin with and making them relevant is something everybody wants to see.

So what can I say lionnoisy? Except you must suck thumb.

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by lionnoisy @ Sat, 16 Aug 2008 10:31:07 +0800

lionnoisy — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 10:31:07 +0800

Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:

En bloc sales cause collective trouble

THE residential property boom in Singapore has been characterised by a peculiarly Singaporean phenomenon known as en bloc or collective sales.

Last year, 109 such deals were done, totalling $S13.3 billion ($10.5 billion).
...............

i find MOD is very generous to Spore Ty who posts few en blok

posts totally irrelevant to this thread and forgiven.

But i am targeted and have to jump a higher barrier

of standard!!

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by maurizio13 @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:48:56 +0800

maurizio13 — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:48:56 +0800

good one dinosaur

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:45:13 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:45:13 +0800

The Very Real Terrorism of Enblocs

We've always heard of the thuggish gang mentality that can emerge from estates undergoing enbloc. The very real presence of bullying, of threats written or verbal, of people telling others to shut up during meetings (blogged about previously, here).

And now this:

(Photo courtesy of the Straits Times)

Residents of the Laguna Park condo on East side Singapore are facing urban terrorism in the form of vandalism. According to the Straits Times report, the vandalism on owners' cars "were 'inside jobs' committed by people who support the en-bloc deal". You can read about it here or here.

I have mentioned in the past that the enbloc process is flawed and unfair, because it shifts too much power to a group of owners - the prosalers. After all, the signing of the CSA is not done independently by an auditor and anonymously at an appointed time, like elections. Rather, the sales committee (and anyone it chooses to inform) knows exactly who is not keen to sell. Can you imagine if in a real life political election, the dominant party (the one who holds power) has access to such knowledge - of who is not keen to vote for them? Imagine the consequences for that. That's why in elections, it is crucial to protect the citizenry by ensuring anonymity in the voting process.

No such thing in enbloc sales. The SC knows who is signing and who doesn't want to, via the lawyer. They are not bound by any confidentiality clause so they can reveal such information to other owners, who may be more aggressive in forcing people to sign the CSA. Other estates have stayers who received hate mails, signs put up on their doors, vandalism etc.

What can be done? Surely if owners are coerced into signing the CSA, it's a sign of bad faith?

Not under the law because (1) the law allows you a cooling period to pull out your signature, regardless of the fact that you were forcibly coerced (2) bad faith does not consider threats to your personal being or property.

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:44:38 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:44:38 +0800

'Further proof that en-bloc sales bring out the worst in Singaporeans.'

MRS DEV NAIR: 'I refer to Monday's report, 'Laguna Park vandals strike again'. Here is further proof, if any more is needed, that en bloc property sales bring out the worst in Singaporeans. All the effort the government puts into creating a more gracious society is negated by this one piece of legislation allowing such sales. In our own estate we have seen jeering at meetings, microphones being snatched away from speakers, faeces being thrown at people's doors and the like. It is surprising that despite such ugliness and the several acrimonious court cases, the authorities do not seem to be taking action to ameliorate the situation. Even the new amendments to the Land Titles (Strata) Act have not succeeded in preventing the boorish behaviour of people bent on making money from the unhappiness of others. Isn't it high time the authorities re-looked the legislation allowing collective sales in the light of the higher goal of developing a gracious society?'

'The same is happening at other estates.'

MR TAN KENG ANN: 'I assure the Laguna Park victims of en bloc vandalism that they are not alone. The same is happening at other estates and where I live at Green Lodge. My apartment was plastered with a poster 'Trouble maker' and a neighbour had the marque of his Mercedes Benz car ripped off. We reported the incidents to the police and the managing agent. My neighbour and I had questioned the maintenance of the estate and the collective sale issue. It is time for the Ministry of Law to act. The social cost of such sales is too heavy if it carries on this way. I didn't buy a condominium only to be pushed out by my neighbours under duress.'

'It is imperative that the Ministry of Law act, and the sooner the better.'

MS MEENAKSHI DO NIN: 'I fear that similar threats and acts of vandalism could happen in the estate where I live too. Like Laguna Park, an interested group set in motion the preliminaries for a collective sale. I read that the Ministry of Law is planning a review of the revised legislation, which took effect on Oct 4 last year. The acts of vandalism and aggression at Laguna Park suggest that it is indeed time to do so. It is imperative that the Ministry of Law act, and the sooner the better.'

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:43:57 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:43:57 +0800

Is Singapore no longer a civilised place?

I READ with alarm the report on Monday, 'Laguna Park vandals strike again'. Furthermore, I have been told about residents in other collective sales being pressured into signing in favour of an en bloc sale.

The idea of proponents resorting to gangster-like tactics like pouring acid on the cars of dissenters comes as a shock to me.

Is Singapore no longer a civilised place?

I live in a housing estate where two previous en-bloc attempts failed.

Neighbours who found out I was not in favour of a collective sale started ignoring me. Some eyed me with dagger-like looks as they walked past.

Friends who came to visit me were refused entry, ostensibly because the carpark was full, they were told.

I appeal to the authorities to take a close look at the effect of collective sales on community spirit and neighbourliness.

I propose that rules be put in place to render such sales invalid if there are proven cases of coercion, threats and bullying of minority groups.

Heng Chee Tong

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:42:36 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:42:36 +0800

Housing Woes in Singapore

Over the last six months since the proposal, we’ve managed to obtain most of the wedding services we need like venue, wedding boutique, photographers and even secured the help of a well respected (and our favourite!) surgical professor to solemnize our matrimonial vows. Everything has been pleasantly smooth sailing but one stand-out problem remains unsettled and that is the most basic issue of housing.

Property in $ingapore as we all know is broadly divided to cheaper public Housing Development Board (HDB) flat apartments and expensive private properties in the form of condominums and landed housing. In the typical scenerio, private property is financially beyond reach of a young couple starting out (sans generous parents & blank chequebooks), so the singular choice is only public housing. Now while our award-winning public housing policy has managed to allow most $ingaporeans to at least own their own roof, it is a flawed system that is an omnipotent ulcer in every young salaried $ingaporean couple.

There are two methods of obtaining a HDB flat - either a new flat from the HDB or 2nd hand resale from a previous owner. Paradoxically an old resale flat is more expensive than a new flat due to the standing policy to match resale market prices to private sector sales. On top of that, older flats are usually found in established mature towns and resulting high demand, thus causing the prices to shoot up to unrealistic values. Though there is a policy to subsidize new couples buying expensive resale flats, the subsidy comes with many stipulations and is usually insufficient to offset the high prices demanded from the previous owner.

The more favourable path is to buy a new flat that is not only brand new but also cost efficient. The catch is that purchasing a new flat requires you to toss your name in a hat to ballot with the rest of the country and the odds of success is usually 1 in 5 (we’ve personnally tried more than 5 attempts over the past 1 year and the trend is recurrent disappointment). New flats also take about 3-5 years to build which means unless you start looking for a flat once you start dating, chances are you’ll be standing right in my homeless shoes now. There is another option of privately-build public flats which take an accelerated 2 years to finish building but again, they seem priced for profit of the construction companies rather than policy of cheap housing for the citizens.

What this all means is that our options are: 1. Take up a high loan to buy a ready resale flat. 2. Take up a high loan to buy a private-contract flat 3. Keep waiting for a new cheap flat and bunk in with your parents in the meantime, inviting ridicule and over-crowding tensions of the family. 4. Keep waiting for a new flat and pay exorbitant rentals in another place temporarily 5. Don’t get married at all. Okay the last point is pretty irreverent.

We are currently still exploring our options between a point 1 to point 4. Even though there is still more than year before our actual wedding, this problem is like a invisible mini-bomb constantly ticking at the back of our minds. Some days, just some days, you wish you had richer parents.

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by SingaporeTyrannosaur @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:41:52 +0800

SingaporeTyrannosaur — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:41:52 +0800

En bloc sales cause collective trouble

THE residential property boom in Singapore has been characterised by a peculiarly Singaporean phenomenon known as en bloc or collective sales.

Last year, 109 such deals were done, totalling $S13.3 billion ($10.5 billion).

An en bloc or collective sale occurs when owners in an apartment block agree to sell the entire block for redevelopment.

In its wake, Singapore's en bloc fever has produced instant multi-millionaires, but has also spawned legal challenges and untold bitterness among minority owners forced to sell.

A High Court hearing due next week will be closely watched - and could unravel the many pending en bloc sales.

At least 10,000 apartments will be demolished for new developments, leading to even more expensive apartments, over the next two years or longer.

Renters, particularly expatriates, are the pawns in the high-stakes game as their favourite suburbs, districts 9, 10 and 11, are where most of the en bloc sales are taking place.

They face rising rents and uncertainty of tenure.

An Australian who works with an investment bank in Singapore, said: "We knew in May that we would have to move out of our flat because it has been sold in a collective sale.

"We have another year to go before the end of our lease. Then to add insult to injury, our landlord doubled our rent for the remaining months of our lease."

Stories like this are common among expatriates, most of whom rent. It is not unusual for rentals to rise 150 per cent.

Placed in an equally unpalatable predicament are owners who have been forced to accept the collective sale of their building, only to find that the market has streaked ahead.

The settlement for their apartment will not be sufficient to buy into a comparable new flat in their own suburb, and they often have to downgrade to smaller accommodation.

Collective sales take up to a year to settle. In the meantime, property prices continue to rise, creating a widening gap between the apartment sale price and the cost of a new one.

Singapore's strata title laws allow an en bloc sale if 80 per cent of the owners agree to it.

The remaining 20 per cent must accept the deal.

CB Richard Ellis investment sales executive director Jeremy Lake said opposition by minority owners increased sharply in the second half of last year. The main reason was the substantial increase in land values since deals were concluded in the first half of 2007.

Objectors take complaints to the Strata Titles Board, which had 68 objections for 60 collective sales applications in 2006.

Last year, complaints to the board increased dramatically.

In the past six months, the board had rejected "two or three" sales on technical grounds or for "lack of good faith", Mr Lake said.

Owners have started to challenge the board's decisions.

Next week minority owners in the controversial Horizon Tower en bloc sale expect Singapore's High Court to begin hearing their appeal against a decision in December by the board to approve the en bloc sale.

These unhappy owners say the board erred in law by approving the sale and ordering minority owners to be bound by a sale and purchase agreement signed by the majority owners.

They also say the then sales committee failed to do its duty to obtain the best price.

Most of the owners agreed to sell the apartment block for $500million to a consortium led by Hotel Properties Ltd, which includes US investment bank Morgan Stanley.

The buyers have threatened to sue the owners for $1 billion if they default on the sale.

Credo Real Estate achieved the highest price for an en bloc sale, of $S1.33 billion or an average of $S2.1 million for each the 618 owners in an apartment block in Farrer Road.

Credo executive director Tan Hong Boon said owners got a higher price for selling collectively to a developer.

The block was sold to a CapitaLand consortium that included US-based Wachovia Bank, which plans to build 1500 units on the site.

Mr Tan said the break-even price for the new units was at least $S1.8 million. To make a reasonable profit the price would have to be between $2.2 and $2.8 million each.

The en bloc phenomenon began in the 1994 property boom.

In 1993, the Government published a master plan for development in Singapore, which outlined zoning and plot ratios for suburbs, Mr Tan said.

"Property consultants saw the potential for redevelopment with higher density in areas where land was underused."

The en bloc momentum would slow only if there is an economic down turn, Mr Lake said. The first en bloc cycle ended in 1997 with the Asian financial crisis.

Collective sales picked up again in 1999 but petered out in 2001 when the dotcom bust put a dampener on residential sales.

The current cycle began in 2006, setting records for en bloc sales, turning owners of once-humble apartments into multimillionaires. Since the second half of last year, with the unfolding of the US sub-prime crisis, price rises had eased and it would take longer to get transactions off the ground, Mr Lake said.

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by lionnoisy @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:03:55 +0800

lionnoisy — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:03:55 +0800

OMG!It look like Oz is just the same as USA in sub prime

or,i call it is over lending.At least A$251 billion of

security back loan sold!!

pl read my above posting for news in April 2008

But in the current market, afflicted by the credit crisis, no mortgage-backed securities have been sold this year after investor confidence in these products dropped dramatically - packaged home loans worth $45 billion were sold in the first half of last year(2007) and in the second half the figure was just $6 billion.

As at end 2006,Oz get A$200 billion in The Australian securitisaton market.

http://securitisation.com.au/asf.html

ie about 200 % of GDP!!

''Australian Securitisation

The Australian securitisaton market has enjoyed rapid growth over the last 10 -12 years. The size of the market, based on the values of securities outstanding by Australian securitisation vehicles, has increased from $10 billion in March 1995 to over $200 billion by the end of 2006.(lion note:ie there is at least 251 billion at end of 2007)

Part of the growth of the Australian securitisation market has been driven by the growth of specialist mortgage originators.

The types of assets that have been securitised to date in Australia include:

Residential mortgage loans
Vehicle and equipment loans and leases
Credit and charge card receivables
Trade receivables
Collateralised loan obligations
Net interest margin (income streams)
Commercial mortgage loans and lease''

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by lionnoisy @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:55:17 +0800

lionnoisy — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:55:17 +0800

i find it strange that Oz Reserve Bank's Foreign Reserve drops very fast

http://www.rba.gov.au/Statistics/Bulletin/index.html

read A4

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by lionnoisy @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:50:42 +0800

lionnoisy — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:50:42 +0800

Yes.Oz is blessed with rich natural resources.

Similiar to Asian Econ Crisis

RESEARCH PAPER 99/14
11 FEBRUARY 1999
The Asian Economic
Crisis

report by

Eshan Karunatilleka
ECONOMIC POLICY AND STATISTICS SECTION
(UK)HOUSE OF COMMONS LIBRARY

read if Oz fit the bills

Factors Behind the Asian Crisis 13
A. Underlying Causes of the Asian Crisis 13
1. Unsustainable Current Account Deficits 13
2. Over-Dependence on Short-Term Foreign Funds 15
3. Poor Regulation of the Economy 18
4. Over-Inflated Asset Prices 19
5. Macroeconomic Policy: Fixed Exchange Rates 20

I find it similiar to US sub prime.----gavaman bail out banks

US gavaman bailed out billions of mortgagebacked securities.

If would be naive if u think all these kind of mortgagebacked securities

just sold in USA!!.

Oz Reserve Bank just do the same,but just the beginning.

http://business.smh.com.au/business/shortterm-fix-reserve-in-320m-mortgage-deal-20080420-27e6.html

Short-term fix: Reserve in $320m mortgage deal

Stuart Washington
April 21, 2008
THE total freeze in the securitised home loan market and the consequent dangers to ordinary Australian home loan borrowers have been recognised in an unusual Reserve Bank action to buy mortgagebacked securities.

On Friday the Reserve Bank bought $320 million in mortgage-backed securities, providing much-needed liquidity to a bank or non-bank lender that had packaged a series of home loans for on-selling.

But in the current market, afflicted by the credit crisis, no mortgage-backed securities have been sold this year after investor confidence in these products dropped dramatically - packaged home loans worth $45 billion were sold in the first half of last year and in the second half the figure was just $6 billion.

The packaging of home loans into securitised vehicles until now has provided a valuable additional source of home loan financing to bank and non-bank lenders alike.

It moves the loan from an institution's balance sheet, giving it extra liquidity for other loans or allowing it to meet its regulatory capital requirements. The result for home loan borrowers is that more loans have been available, meaning more competition and cheaper home loans.

Non-bank lenders have been leaving the market rapidly, with Macquarie Group among those to cut back or exit altogether, because of the difficulty of gaining the necessary financing for mortgages at a favourable rate.

The Reserve Bank action is seen as an acknowledgement of the difficulties banks are facing in their ability to on-sell mortgage-backed securities.

But the terms of the Reserve Bank purchases are less than a year and the money has been provided only on the basis that the securities are repurchased by the original institution.

"The positive thing is … it solves the short-term liquidity issue which is obviously very pressing," says Greg Medcraft, the chief executive of the industry lobby group, Australian Securitisation Forum.

"What it doesn't do is solve the long-term liquidity issue."

Only last September and October, the Reserve Bank included mortgage-backed securities among the securities it would buy from banks and accredited non-bank lenders. Friday's purchase was one of the few sizeable transactions to date.

Mr Medcraft said this facility was not well known among most lenders. Previously, he said, most banks and other lenders had not attempted to use it.

This was partly because of the stigma of being seen to need Reserve Bank help to restore liquidity, a move that could be portrayed negatively and frighten investors.

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by sgdiehard @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:13:44 +0800

sgdiehard — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:13:44 +0800

Originally posted by Genie99a:

Another interesting post and lion is stating a fact and I agree with it.

However bro there are reasons why its like that. Read my post above about the welfare system in Australia and you'll understand why it has deficits. The federal govt is working on a tightrope you see. It has to reduce deficits BUT if he cuts into welfare then the people get angry and vote them out lol.

But its still a lucky country cause of natural resources ... an eg. is uranium which I think is sold to China. And the mining Industry in Australia..... talking about that did you know that working as a miner in Australia netts you $100k AUD a year? I myself was shocked lol and you don't need a 3-5 year degree for that too. But i guess its dangerous work.

One of the very few posts here that look at facts and know what is fact and call it fact.

Australia is a big continent and Singapore is a small island. Australia has plenty of minerals and they only need to dig and sell. Can't really compare the economy of Australia with that of Singapore.

The continent can still accommodate probable another 50 million people there so those who don't feel comfortable in Singapore should just move there.

Singapore as a small island can only accommodate and feed that many of people, let those who want to stay, stay.

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by maurizio13 @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:15:40 +0800

maurizio13 — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:15:40 +0800

Originally posted by lionnoisy:

1.I just say Oz possessing some traits before the crisis.I am not saying what should be the CURRENT FX rate.I just say''hey fren.Do u know these info.''Thats all.

No offence.

2.OZ higher wage but come with higher price.

3.Why do u talk about miners?What u say seem refer the high deposit interest

rate u will get if u park your $$$ in A$.Low deposit interst rate mean lower

risk.Do u know why they pay u so high deposite interest rate?

1) Let's face it, if Australia has a crisis, so does Singapore. Singapore's Foreign Direct Investments in Australia end 2003 was AUD 22.1 billion. If Singapore saw investment opportunities in Australia, why don't you. Have you change your stance by supporting CSJ and oppose P4P?

http://www.firb.gov.au/content/singapore/statistics.asp?NavID=65

Maybe you should start telling the P4P government how bad Australia really is before you try convincing us.

2) What higher price? Citizens having a more relaxed lifestyle? Or are you the typical SM who needs to be whipped once in a while?

3) I talked about miners because someone was referring to their high wage rate (if you had taken the time to read and comprehend, you will also noticed that the reply wasn't directed at you).

4 Aug 1998:

AUD 1 = SGD 1.0443

Australia Interest Rate = 4.7%

1 Aug 2008:

AUD 1 = SGD 1.279327

Money in Australian denominated currency

Assume a Singaporean converted SGD 100,000 to AUD, he would get AUD 95,758.

Leaves this amount for 10 years, assume that interest rates remain at 4.7% (I am sure interest rates would have gone up).

After 10 years, he gets AUD 151,578, converts to SGD 193,920 (AUD 1 = SGD 1.279327)

**This site has the housing loan rate, I do not know the savings rate for Australia, but will assume a bid-ask spread of 2%, therefore 4.7% (6.7%-2.0%) for Aug 1997.

http://www.loansense.com.au/historical-rates.html

Money in Singapore currency

Say this Singaporean keeps his money in a Singapore bank, assume that this Singapore bank pays him 2.5% (CPF interest rate, which is normally higher than savings interest rate).

At the end of 10 years, this person would have only SGD 128,008 in his Singapore bank account.

So......What kind of RISK are you talking about? The RISK that the Australian investment will make more money than the Singapore one?

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by maurizio13 @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:42:47 +0800

maurizio13 — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:42:47 +0800

Originally posted by lionnoisy:

Originally posted by maurizio13:

If MAS can control the rate,u and i no need to work lah.

Just peg at S$1 to US$1,000 !!My Dear.MAS 's ability is limited.

It can fine tune and cant change the main trend.

If foreign investor find no prospect in SG,SG can fall like stone.

All $$$ in Temasek and GIC,est US$300b, cannot change the manin course.

Have u think the side effect of appreciation??

Export become expensive ,tourists find not attractive etc...

2.HDB said cost is 300,000 a unit in Punngol and Sengkang but

sold at some $240,000.Ok.i think u guys will not listen.

3.The term Asian Economic Crisis was coined after the crisis.

We dunt know if we are in any crisis.

What you proposed SGD1 = USD1,000 is exchange rate idiocy.

We are controlling inflation, not promoting capital flight.

Second, the MAS operates a managed float regime for the Singapore dollar. The trade-weighted exchange rate is allowed to fluctuate within an undisclosed policy band, rather than kept to a fixed value. The band provides flexibility for the system to accommodate short-term fluctuations in the foreign exchange markets as well as some buffer in the estimation of the country's equilibrium exchange rate, which cannot be known precisely. MAS' intervention operations generally 'lean against the wind'. If the exchange rate moves outside the band, MAS will usually step in, either buying or selling foreign exchange so as to steer the exchange rate back within the band.

http://www.mas.gov.sg/resource/publications/monographs/exchangePolicy.pdf

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by lionnoisy @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:34:45 +0800

lionnoisy — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:34:45 +0800

Originally posted by maurizio13:

You mean exchange rates, reserves and inflation are not linked?

1) MAS controls the exchange rate between the various currencies.

2) If MAS appreciates the SGD against the USD, it will make our imports cheaper, thereby reducing inflation.

Ermmmm.....Singapore never give any subsidies for housing, they only give a discount. e.g. If the cost of production is $50k, they selling at $200k, they give you 10% discount. But ultimately they still pocket $130k.

This is alot like the discount some smaller departmental stores give to customers, they mark up the price, then give you a discount, tell you, you managed to save alot from the discount.

If MAS can control the rate,u and i no need to work lah.

Just peg at S$1 to US$1,000 !!My Dear.MAS 's ability is limited.

It can fine tune and cant change the main trend.

If foreign investor find no prospect in SG,SG can fall like stone.

All $$$ in Temasek and GIC,est US$300b, cannot change the manin course.

Have u think the side effect of appreciation??

Export become expensive ,tourists find not attractive etc...

2.HDB said cost is 300,000 a unit in Punngol and Sengkang but

sold at some $240,000.Ok.i think u guys will not listen.

3.The term Asian Economic Crisis was coined after the crisis.

We dunt know if we are in any crisis.

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En bloc sales cause collective trouble

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En bloc sales cause collective trouble

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by lionnoisy @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:03:55 +0800

''Australian Securitisation

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by lionnoisy @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:55:17 +0800

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by lionnoisy @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:50:42 +0800

Short-term fix: Reserve in $320m mortgage deal

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by sgdiehard @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:13:44 +0800

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by maurizio13 @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:15:40 +0800

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by maurizio13 @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:42:47 +0800

Sydney is very pricey & no public house,a SG just found out replied by lionnoisy @ Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:34:45 +0800