SDP’s policy paper on National Service
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Originally posted by deathmaster:
the government only declare war. look, in the Iraq, Afghanistan and Lebanon war, most of the civilian know that they will soon be engaged in some sort of war, before the war actually begins. people do notice things that happens around them.i get what u mean in ur first point. but it doesn't hurt to actually learn about how to do urban warfare in the singapore landscape. singapore is not inpregnable. in the long run, in a war of attrition, we would eventually be push back into singapore, due to resource/manpower shortages etc. we should be brushing up on urban defence back at home instead of urban warfare abroad.
and how do you intend to use ur mortar/ tank/ wadever? almost every inch of singapore is covered with these HDB flat, where soldiers lurks. and, how many flats can u level? there are so many out there. even piles of rubble may prove hazardous to you, where they will still serve as effective hiding places.
actually, it is kind of logical. in many of the modern urban wars, it is quite hard to take down a city full of hostile forces, not least one as urbanized as singapore.
the government only declare war. look, in the Iraq, Afghanistan and Lebanon war, most of the civilian know that they will soon be engaged in some sort of war, before the war actually begins. people do notice things that happens around them.From the invasion of Poland by the Nazis, the attack on Pearl Harbour, operation Barbarossa against the Soviet Union, to the invasion of South Korea, the war for Falkland, .....and the invasion of Kuwait, which one do the people or the government knew they were about to be invaded??
You singaporean? have served NS?
singapore is not inpregnable. in the long run, in a war of attrition, we would eventually be push back into singapore, due to resource/manpower shortages etc. we should be brushing up on urban defence back at home instead of urban warfare abroad.
There is no "in the long run" if Singapore were to go to war. If we win the jungle war, the town war and whatever wars outside Singapore, we will not need to fight an urban warfare, the type that is only fought in Singapore, with the towering HDB.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
the government only declare war. look, in the Iraq, Afghanistan and Lebanon war, most of the civilian know that they will soon be engaged in some sort of war, before the war actually begins. people do notice things that happens around them.From the invasion of Poland by the Nazis, the attack on Pearl Harbour, operation Barbarossa against the Soviet Union, to the invasion of South Korea, the war for Falkland, .....and the invasion of Kuwait, which one do the people or the government knew they were about to be invaded??
You singaporean? have served NS?
singapore is not inpregnable. in the long run, in a war of attrition, we would eventually be push back into singapore, due to resource/manpower shortages etc. we should be brushing up on urban defence back at home instead of urban warfare abroad.
There is no "in the long run" if Singapore were to go to war. If we win the jungle war, the town war and whatever wars outside Singapore, we will not need to fight an urban warfare, the type that is only fought in Singapore, with the towering HDB.
Just like the Isreal six day war, the model Singapore should be based on.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
From the invasion of Poland by the Nazis, the attack on Pearl Harbour, operation Barbarossa against the Soviet Union, to the invasion of South Korea, the war for Falkland, .....and the invasion of Kuwait, which one do the people or the government knew they were about to be invaded??You singaporean? have served NS?
There have been instances when the government were aware of the threats, but were simply bogged down by either self-denial or indecisivness - and allowed events to overwhelm their decision making process
Nazism had reared its ugly head not in secrecy or overnight before the invasion of Poland, and the military build-up of Germany under Hitler was not in total secrecy either.
Even PM Chamberlian was deceiving himself by expecting Adolf Hitler will come to his human senses after he negotiated with Hitler to stop the military adventurism.
In 1937, it was a very public affair when Adolf Hitler broke up the Treaty of Versailles that ended WW-1 and defanged Germany with the many clauses that prevent any military build-up.
This should have created alarm throughout Europe but the European countries were not of one mind, and Hitler even pressed England and France to an agreement that resulted in the dismantling of the Czechoslovakian State in 1938.
Poland had at least 24 months to prepare her defenses, when Adolf Hitler tore up the Treaty of Versailles that brought peace to Europe after a long and destructive WW-1 experience.
Poland and Europe had even a longer warning time when Hitler's Nazism ideology began to take route in Germany with a strong military overtone that began in the 1930s. [See reference below]
According to Historians that were able to accessed opened up Official Archives - the shocking discovery was that the Roosevelt Government was aware of the "better then possible" attack on Pearl Harbor.
The British and Dutch Intelligence services, as well as the US Code breakers had all broken the Japanese Communication Codes, and were aware of the impending plans for the Japanese Ambassador to submit the final letter that Japan is declaring War on the USA; with this declaration to be timed with the arrival of the Japanese fleet aircraft to bomb Pearl Harbor.
As events would have it, Roosevelt and his Military Commanders were silent, or had directed the warning to be sent to Pearl Harbor on a non-urgent basis, leading one disaster after another. [See reference below]
With "Operation Barbarossa" - it was a battle between two devils.
Do you seriously think that Stalin was not suspicious - or at least apprehesive - of Hitler's ambitions when the Peace Treaty was signed with Hitler and which allowed Hitler to invade Poland ? For Stalin to allow Hitler to take Poland is very surprising, as Poland was part of the 18th Century Russian Empire. [See Reference below]
Even before the German launched "Operation Barbarossa" - Stalin was already expecting the temporary truce with Hitler to break-up, and was preparing for the worst to happen. Stalin was actually preparing to attack Hitler and draw the Germans into a well laid trap that was supposed to annihilate the bulk of the German force.
It was Hitler's own suspicion and distrust of Stalin, and Hitler's own decisiveness to act on the advise of his own intelligence services, that allowed Hitler to launch "Operation Barbarossa" attack on the Russians. [See Reference below]
In the Korean Peninsula, the 1950 "surprise" North Korean attack on the South was already known as early as 1949 by Military Intelligence Operatives that inflitrated into the North Korean political and military establishments.
Yet, the attack came as a surprise due to the political priorities of the US Civilian Leadership, which had its focus on Europe.
For North Korea to invade the South with a large military force, early preparations have to be made and such preparations will include road axis, logistic resupply bases, and military staging areas. All were noted and documented by the US Military Intelligence before the invasion occurred. [See reference below - second half]
Similarly, the Falklands War did not simply happen from any surprise Argentinian invasion - as the talk was getting more boisterous
As for the invasion of Kuwait by Sadam Hussein, the signs were written on the wall, and the intelligence services must have picked up all the nuances of an invasion, except for the complacency of the US Administration and the Kuwaiti Government.
After the first Desert Storm War - it was discovered that Sadam was spoiling for a fight to resettle the political landscape in the Middle East, which arose from his taking the lead position in preventing the Iranian Revolution from spreading and affecting the Regional Rulers in the Middle East.
Perhaps about the only invasion that was so cleverly hidden and executed was probably the Egyptian crossing of the Suez Canal that led to the Yom Kippur War - resulting in Egypt regaining its title to the Sinai Peninsula.
There maybe lessons to be learnt in how best to avoid such surprises; and this can range from the careful gathering of intelligence, its interpretation by Human Specialists, or by way of technology assisted intelligence gathering.
The Civilian and Military Leadership will have to be more diligent in the gathering and interpretation of intelligence information; as well as the intelligent and timely inter-facing of equipment and manpower.
1.0 ‘Adolf Hitler – Rise of Nazism’
2.0 ‘Pearl Harbor – Mother of All Conspiracies’
3.1 ‘Cultural History of Poland – its History of Ethnic Relations’
3.2 ‘New Evidence on the 1941 ‘Barbarossa’ Attack : Why Hitler Attacked Soviet Russia When He Did’
4.0 ‘Two major Intelligence Failure in the Korean Peninsular – 1950s’
5.0 ‘Several Reasons Why Saddam Hussein Invaded Kuwait’
There is no "in the long run" if Singapore were to go to war. If we win the jungle war, the town war and whatever wars outside Singapore, we will not need to fight an urban warfare, the type that is only fought in Singapore, with the towering HDB.
While we can plan for Singapore not to be sucked into any "long running wars" - we must also prepare for the worst case scenario that the island may face a strong counter-attack that can overwhelm and break up our front line forces.
In such a case, the urban warfare will take on the lines of war in downtown Beirut in Lebanon.
City roads will have to be blocked, to form defensible axis and killing zones, and this will require the strategic demolition of specific buildings so as to achieve the strategic plans of defending Singapore.
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I love reading history. Thanks Atobe :D
Regarding Pearl Harbour, there were suggestions too that the Americans knew it coming but delibrately allowed the Jap to do the damage, which was the main reason they moved away their most prized assets, the aircraft carriers. None were bombed in Pearl Harbour, I believe. This gave them a very strong reason to enter the war right there and then, both to the army and the citizens.
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Even PM Chamberlian was deceiving himself by expecting Adolf Hitler will come to his human senses after he negotiated with Hitler to stop the military adventurism.
In 1937, it was a very public affair when Adolf Hitler broke up the Treaty of Versailles that ended WW-1 and defanged Germany with the many clauses that prevent any military build-up.
This should have created alarm throughout Europe but the European countries were not of one mind, and Hitler even pressed England and France to an agreement that resulted in the dismantling of the Czechoslovakian State in 1938.
That's not true. Most of above is british propaganda.
Chamberlain's plan was to turn Nazi Germany eastwards to destroy Soviet Union.
See:
...And by this date, certain members of the Milner Group and of the British Conservative government had reached the fantastic idea that they could kill two birds with one stone by setting Germany and Russia against one another in Eastern Europe.
In this way they felt that the two enemies would stalemate one another, or that Germany would become satisfied with the oil of Rumania and the wheat of the Ukraine. It never occurred to anyone in a responsible position that Germany and Russia might make common cause, even temporarily, against the West.
Even less did it occur to them that Russia might beat Germany and thus open all Central Europe to Bolshevism...
...In order to carry out this plan of allowing Germany to drive eastward against Russia, it was necessary to do three things:
(1) to liquidate all the countries standing between Germany and Russia;
(2) to prevent France from honoring her alliances with these countries; and
(3) to hoodwink the English people into accepting this as a necessary, indeed, the only solution to the international problem.
The Chamberlain group were so successful in all three of these things that they came within an ace of succeeding, and failed only because of the obstinacy of the Poles, the unseemly haste of Hitler, and the fact that at the eleventh hour the Milner Group realized the implications of their policy and tried to reverse it...
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See also:
Chapter 16: Security, 1919-1935
http://real-world-news.org/bk-quigley/06
Part Twelve: The Policy of Appeasement, 1931-1936
http://real-world-news.org/bk-quigley/
Part Thirteen: The Disruption of Europe: 1937-1939
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Russian Foreign Intelligence Service declassifies Munich Agreement papers
MOSCOW. (RIA Novosti's Valery Yarmolenko) - The Russian Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR in Russian abbreviation) has declassified archive materials related to the 1938 Munich Agreement, which triggered the most dramatic events of the 20th century.
Head of the SVR press office Sergei Ivanov allowed Yarmolenko to familiarize himself with the declassified documents.
"The declassified intelligence documents reflect the political processes which took place before and after the Munich Agreement of September 30, 1938, which is also called the 'Munich conspiracy,'" Ivanov explained.
These documents were kept in the archives as top secret for 70 years. They show that the Soviet political leadership was informed about the preparations for the meeting of Neville Chamberlain and Eduard Daladier, on the one hand, and Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini, on the other, and predict its potential military and political consequences for Europe. The papers show what unprecedented pressure Britain and France brought to bear on Czechoslovakia, demanding that it ceded Sudeten to Germany.
"Moscow was receiving secret reports to the effect that the British and French ambassadors in Prague were persuading the Czechoslovak president to give over the Sudeten region to the Germans. Moreover, Prague was offered to cancel mutual assistance pacts with other countries," Ivanov said.
Memo #8604, which was sent to Moscow by Russian intelligence from Prague several days before the signing of the Munich Agreement reads: "On September 19, British Ambassador Newton and French Ambassador De Lacroix conveyed to Milan Hodza (Czechoslovak prime minister in 1935-1938) the following on behalf of Chamberlain and Daladier, respectfully:
"Guided by the lofty principles of preserving peace in Europe, they consider it necessary for Germany to incorporate the Sudeten region. A system of mutual aid pacts with other countries should be cancelled. Instead, all of Czechoslovakia's neighbors, plus France and Britain will guarantee the inviolability of its frontiers."
These actions destroyed the existing elements of the collective resistance system. The Western policymakers did this behind the back of the Soviet Union, which had mutual aid agreements with Czechoslovakia and France.
The 1938 declassified documents also reveal the details of the correspondence between European embassies and their foreign policy departments.
For example, the British ambassador in Warsaw warned the Foreign Office that if Germany invaded Czechoslovakia, the Polish leadership would seize the Tesin region, and that is what exactly happened. Having enlisted Germany's support, Poland took part in dismembering Czechoslovakia. Later, Poland also fell victim to Germany.
The Finnish ambassador in London reported that if Hitler moved his troops to Czechoslovakia, France would not be able to render it effective military aid.
"The Soviet Union was ready to render such support to Czechoslovakia, but because of the heavy pressure from London and Paris, Prague did not dare address Moscow with such a request," Ivanov recalled.
Soviet intelligence sources reported that many capitals closely watched the geopolitical situation in Europe after the conclusion of the Munich Agreement as well.
"As early as November 1938, diplomatic missions of a number of countries reported to their departments that Britain and France would not prevent Germany's eastward expansion," Ivanov said.
SVR veteran, Maj.-Gen. Lev Sotskov (Ret.), who sorted the archive documents, is confident that the Munich Agreement eventually destroyed the collective security system in Europe and led to the outbreak of WWII.
Sotskov served in the Foreign Intelligence Service since 1956 both abroad and in the central office. Now he is studying the archives on the history of intelligence. He wrote "Operation Tarantella" and "Unknown Separatism," and took part in the compilation of a collection of documents, entitled "Baltic Countries and Geopolitics."
Sotskov believes that the declassified documents make it possible to take a new and deeper look at the role the world leaders played in the late 1930s in Europe.
"The documents received after the Munich conspiracy are particularly valuable. They analyze the post-Munich situation in Europe and clearly show that Britain was trying to draw Germany and the Soviet Union into active hostilities," Sotskov emphasized in an interview with RIA Novosti.
In a memo on December 21, 1938, Lavrenty Beria reported to Stalin about the Soviet-seized documents, which included reports of Finnish envoys to London, Paris, and Warsaw on Germany's eastward expansion, and the position of the British, French, and Polish governments on this issue.
Thus, Finnish Ambassador in London Grippenberg reported to his Foreign Ministry: "I heard the opinion that German propaganda of colonies is false. As Britons put it, it is a smokescreen to cover the preparations of a plan concerning Soviet Ukraine. Hitler himself told French Ambassador Francois-Poncet that he was not even thinking about any colonies," the document reads.
Later, on November 25, Grippenberg reported his conversation with a British government member who assured him that Britain and France would not interfere in Germany's eastward expansion.
"Britain's position is as follows: let's wait until Germany and the U.S.S.R. get involved in a big conflict," the document reads.
Commenting on it, Sotskov explained that despite the circumstances, the Soviet Union was still trying to set up some system for resisting the Nazi aggression. As a result, Britain and France had to send their military missions to Moscow for negotiations.
"Moscow presented very detailed information about the resources which it could use against Hitler's Germany. In the event of an anti-Hitler agreement with Britain and France, the U.S.S.R. was ready to employ 120 infantry divisions, 16 cavalry divisions, 5,000 tanks and as many aircraft," Sotskov said.
However, despite this, the talks with Britain and France failed. It became obvious that they were working toward their super goal, he noted.
The documents make it abundantly clear that both Britain and France realized that their position was driving the U.S.S.R. into a corner and that Moscow would have to come to terms with the Germans.
As a result, the U.S.S.R. signed the Nonaggression Pact with Germany, which allowed it to move its border to the West and gain some time for the preparations to repel the aggression, Sotskov explained.
"It became obvious that a policy of appeasing Hitler did not work, and that concessions only encouraged him further. This compelled the Soviet leadership to look for ways of ensuring national security in this foreign policy environment," he pointed out.
"The Western model of appeasing the aggressor (the Munich Agreement) failed to achieve the desired effect, and the war broke out in the West. France surrendered to Hitler, and the cabinet of ministers changed in Britain. The anti-Hitler coalition took shape later under the pattern suggested by the Soviet Union in 1935: the United States, Britain, the Soviet Union, and later de Gaulle's France," Sotskov said.
He believes that Europe should draw conclusions from the events around the Munich Agreement, as well as from the events in the Balkans and the recent crisis in the Caucasus (South Ossetia).
"First of all, appeasing any aggressor, whether big or small, is a flawed policy. The United States wants to dominate the world, and it does not matter whose model, Hitler's or Bush's, it is using to achieve this goal," he said.
Unless aggressive actions are nipped in the bud, the region and probably the entire continent will be in for big trouble, Sotskov believes.
He is convinced that Europe needs a system of collective security, and this is the second lesson. "The bloc system no longer works. However, it transpires that the lesson has not been learned. Instead of curbing Georgia, the aggressor, the United States suggests encircling Russia," he summed up.
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Munich secrets: declassified
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=4gH2raI
...While all this was going on, the remorseless wheels of appeasement were grinding out of existence one country after another. The fatal loss was Czechoslovakia.
This disaster was engineered by Chamberlain with the full co-operation of the Milner Group.
The details do not concern us here, but it should be mentioned that the dispute arose over the position of the Sudeten Germans within the Czechoslovak state, and as late as 15 September 1938 was still being expressed in those terms.
Up to that day, Hitler had made no demand to annex the Sudeten area, although on 12 September he had for the first time asked for “self-determination” for the Sudetens. Konrad Henlein, Hitler’s agent in Czechoslovakia and leader of the Sudeten Germans, expressed no desire “to go back to the Reich” until after 12 September.
Who, then, first demanded frontier rectification in favor of Germany ?
Chamberlain did so privately on 10 May 1938...
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they told me historians got no future, now i begining to agree.
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Originally posted by eagle:
I love reading history. Thanks Atobe :D
Regarding Pearl Harbour, there were suggestions too that the Americans knew it coming but delibrately allowed the Jap to do the damage, which was the main reason they moved away their most prized assets, the aircraft carriers. None were bombed in Pearl Harbour, I believe. This gave them a very strong reason to enter the war right there and then, both to the army and the citizens.
I lousy with history until a pastor took a few of us into his special concern class and inspired us to be deeply fascinated with history, and I spent all of my recess time in the Reference Section of the school library.
There have been a few movies made about the carelessness of the US Administration, its FBI and the various Intelligence Agencies in handling the materials and information.
The reference piece in my last post was another one of the many reports from the many investigations made to the disgrace at Pearl Harbor.
2.0 ‘Pearl Harbor – Mother of All Conspiracies’
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
That's not true. Most of above is british propaganda.
Chamberlain's plan was to turn Nazi Germany eastwards to destroy Soviet Union.
See:
...And by this date, certain members of the Milner Group and of the British Conservative government had reached the fantastic idea that they could kill two birds with one stone by setting Germany and Russia against one another in Eastern Europe.
In this way they felt that the two enemies would stalemate one another, or that Germany would become satisfied with the oil of Rumania and the wheat of the Ukraine. It never occurred to anyone in a responsible position that Germany and Russia might make common cause, even temporarily, against the West.
Even less did it occur to them that Russia might beat Germany and thus open all Central Europe to Bolshevism...
...In order to carry out this plan of allowing Germany to drive eastward against Russia, it was necessary to do three things:
(1) to liquidate all the countries standing between Germany and Russia;
(2) to prevent France from honoring her alliances with these countries; and
(3) to hoodwink the English people into accepting this as a necessary, indeed, the only solution to the international problem.
The Chamberlain group were so successful in all three of these things that they came within an ace of succeeding, and failed only because of the obstinacy of the Poles, the unseemly haste of Hitler, and the fact that at the eleventh hour the Milner Group realized the implications of their policy and tried to reverse it...
There have been many different views about the mission that Chamberlain made, and from another report after the war, it seems that Chamberlain's acts of appeasement was part of the efforts made by Communist Agents that managed to infiltrate into the highest position within the British Government.
If you read the reference report below, it will have confirmed the principal parts of your various post in your response, and also provide further information from researches made after WW-2.
These researchers fell onto the Gestapo reports from the interrogation of Russia's Communist agents whom they picked up inside Germany, and who succumbed to the ruthless interrogation techniques by revealing a list of Russia's Communist spies embedded inside the British Government as well.
Russia's Stalin was the Master Political Schemer with a long term and global perspective in the geo-politics during the period after WW-1, and was the first to have inflitrated spies into the government of the countries around Russia.
Was Chamberlain making his own decision, or was he manipulated and used to achieve a bigger scheme of things ?
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There have been many different views about the mission that Chamberlain made, and from another report after the war, it seems that Chamberlain's acts of appeasement was part of the efforts made by Communist Agents that managed to infiltrate into the highest position within the British Government.
Chamberlain's strategy was to turn Germany eastwards and let it destroy Soviet Union.
That's why he let Germany expand eastwards. No communists agents here.
The plan was simply to instigate a war between Germany and Russia and let the two finish each other off.
Above site, this henry makow, is a complete nut.
I am surprised that you go to such sites Atobe.
New Evidence on the 1941 ‘Barbarossa’ Attack : Why Hitler Attacked Soviet Russia When He Did’
Several works have been written debunking this "icebreaker" theory.
See:
http://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/paper/trueman.html
http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Delusion-Stalin
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/reviewsw63.htm
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Was Chamberlain making his own decision, or was he manipulated and used to achieve a bigger scheme of things ?
The only bigger scheme here was the british plan to instigate a war between Germany and Russia.
This fact is covered up in most english history textbooks.
You won't read about how Britain instigated Hitler to expand eastwards to destroy Russia in most english history books.
Some nuts like henry makow mix in the usual drivel like illuminati, want to start some scheme to spread some hidden agendas.
This is quite common bullshit that you can find on internet.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
Chamberlain's strategy was to turn Germany eastwards and let it destroy Soviet Union.
That's why he let Germany expand eastwards. No communists agents here.
The plan was simply to instigate a war between Germany and Russia and let the two finish each other off.
Above site, this henry makow, is a complete nut.
I am surprised that you go to such sites Atobe.
Several works have been written debunking this "icebreaker" theory.
See:
http://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/paper/trueman.html
http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Delusion-Stalin
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/reviewsw63.htm
In the search for the truth, we should not allow our personal intellectual arrogance to get into our own head, and handicap ourselves from the possiblities that even those whom you think are mad may actually know more then you.
When Michelangelo insisted that the World was round, and that man can fly, he was confined as a heretic by those "who arrogantly proclaimed that they knew better".
Was Henry Makow a complete nut ?
Are you forming your opinion from that made by others without any questions, or have you researched on Henry Makow's work to find it to be false ?
Are you killing the messenger when the message does not please your ears ?
Can you believe the one-sided evaluation of history from the selected release of the Soviet Union 70 year old archive ?
Or should you not compare the "new facts" revealed with the revelations from the other archives for the same period leading to WW-2 so as to allow yourself a more balanced view ?
Was Chamberlain so capable to be able to make such an elaborate British scheme to have Hitler look eastward and attack Russia - or was it not that Chamberlain was one of the pieces of "little men" being manipulated by Stalin's aggressive and more surreptious schemes ?
It remains a fact that when the Communist took the reins of power from the Tsar, the revolution of the commoners were gripping the attention across the divided classes in Europe and Britain.
Depending on which social class you fall in, it will either fascinate you with the possibilities of equality, or scare you with the prospect of losing your privileged status of lording over the minions as the Ruling Class.
By the time Stalin took over the Soviet Government, Communism took on a more covert and more active stance to undermine the political systems that can threaten Russia stability.
Capitalism which was seen as the anti-thesis towards Communism ideology.
From WW-2 archives researched, the most shocking investigative report that won the "Pullitzer Prize" was awarded to Louis Kilzer, who claimed in his well researched book that he had discovered the identity of a Russian mole - codename "Werther" -that had burrowed deep into the highest echelon of the Third Reich; and "Werther" was in such a privileged position as to have Stalin being informed of Hitler's planned moves within hours of Hitler's decision being made.
In his book - "Critters that dig tunnels under our feet" - he claimed that "Werther" was none other that Martin Bormann, Hitler's most trusted deputy!!!
In the annals of the British MI-5 Security Service, they have recognized the Communist threat in the UK as early as during the pre-War Period, when the task of monitoring the activities of the Communist Party of Great Britain was passed from the British Police to MI-5 in 1930. [See reference : "History: The Communist Threat"]
As time would have it, by the mid-1960s, the infamous ‘Cambridge University Spy Ring’ was exposed, where leading British Citizens were shockingly discovered to be Soviet agents high up in the British Government that included MI-5, MI-6, Foreign Office and the War Ministry - all holding some of the most influential positions that subtlely moved the decision makers in the direction of Moscow plans.
Was Henry Makow alone with his ideas about the conspiracy, or was his finding borne out by others as well ?
With the ability of Stalin's agents penetrating the governments of the countries near and far from Russia's border, it provided Stalin an insight to the various divided and parochial views of the different European Governments, and that of the British and the USA.
This privileged position allowed Stalin the Ace-Card to scheme his moves, and play poker with Hitler while having the ability to call the bluff.
Stalin had his own Secret War Plan when he signed a treaty with Hitler, which allowed Hitler to concentrate his efforts in tackling the French, the British, and all the other economic and political power centers in Europe.
His hope was to exhaust all the armies by letting them fight amongst themselves, and then step in with his military to push over all the exhausted parties by taking the prize for himself.
It was a real estate grab that pitted the cunning of Stalin against that of Hitler's, with both attempting to out-fox and out-manouver the other, and then not wanting to make any provocation prematurely towards themselves. [See reference below - Stalin's Secret War Plans]
‘The “Ugly Secret” of World War Two’
‘Critters that dig tunnels under our feet’
‘History: The Communist Threat’
‘Stalin’s Secret War Plan – Why Hitler Invaded the Soviet Union’
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In the search for the truth, we should not allow our personal intellectual arrogance to get into our own head, and handicap ourselves from the possiblities that even those whom you think are mad may actually know more then you.
Beginning of WWII is one of my favourite topics and I have read quite a lot of writings on it and examined the evidence.
The conclusion is that Britain's plot was to instigate a war between Germany and Russia.
This is completely clear.
Maybe I will start a thread to discuss this topic in more depth.
Was Henry Makow alone with his ideas about the conspiracy, or was his finding borne out by others as well ?
Illuminati conspiracies are quite popular on the internet. I have also examined this type of information on the web.
The conclusion that I have drawn is that it is complete horseshit propagated by nuts.
Of course in order to convince illuminati believers on this truth, we have to analyse the data.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
There have been instances when the government were aware of the threats, but were simply bogged down by either self-denial or indecisivness - and allowed events to overwhelm their decision making process
Nazism had reared its ugly head not in secrecy or overnight before the invasion of Poland, and the military build-up of Germany under Hitler was not in total secrecy either.
Even PM Chamberlian was deceiving himself by expecting Adolf Hitler will come to his human senses after he negotiated with Hitler to stop the military adventurism.
In 1937, it was a very public affair when Adolf Hitler broke up the Treaty of Versailles that ended WW-1 and defanged Germany with the many clauses that prevent any military build-up.
This should have created alarm throughout Europe but the European countries were not of one mind, and Hitler even pressed England and France to an agreement that resulted in the dismantling of the Czechoslovakian State in 1938.
Poland had at least 24 months to prepare her defenses, when Adolf Hitler tore up the Treaty of Versailles that brought peace to Europe after a long and destructive WW-1 experience.
Poland and Europe had even a longer warning time when Hitler's Nazism ideology began to take route in Germany with a strong military overtone that began in the 1930s. [See reference below]
According to Historians that were able to accessed opened up Official Archives - the shocking discovery was that the Roosevelt Government was aware of the "better then possible" attack on Pearl Harbor.
The British and Dutch Intelligence services, as well as the US Code breakers had all broken the Japanese Communication Codes, and were aware of the impending plans for the Japanese Ambassador to submit the final letter that Japan is declaring War on the USA; with this declaration to be timed with the arrival of the Japanese fleet aircraft to bomb Pearl Harbor.
As events would have it, Roosevelt and his Military Commanders were silent, or had directed the warning to be sent to Pearl Harbor on a non-urgent basis, leading one disaster after another. [See reference below]
With "Operation Barbarossa" - it was a battle between two devils.
Do you seriously think that Stalin was not suspicious - or at least apprehesive - of Hitler's ambitions when the Peace Treaty was signed with Hitler and which allowed Hitler to invade Poland ? For Stalin to allow Hitler to take Poland is very surprising, as Poland was part of the 18th Century Russian Empire. [See Reference below]
Even before the German launched "Operation Barbarossa" - Stalin was already expecting the temporary truce with Hitler to break-up, and was preparing for the worst to happen. Stalin was actually preparing to attack Hitler and draw the Germans into a well laid trap that was supposed to annihilate the bulk of the German force.
It was Hitler's own suspicion and distrust of Stalin, and Hitler's own decisiveness to act on the advise of his own intelligence services, that allowed Hitler to launch "Operation Barbarossa" attack on the Russians. [See Reference below]
In the Korean Peninsula, the 1950 "surprise" North Korean attack on the South was already known as early as 1949 by Military Intelligence Operatives that inflitrated into the North Korean political and military establishments.
Yet, the attack came as a surprise due to the political priorities of the US Civilian Leadership, which had its focus on Europe.
For North Korea to invade the South with a large military force, early preparations have to be made and such preparations will include road axis, logistic resupply bases, and military staging areas. All were noted and documented by the US Military Intelligence before the invasion occurred. [See reference below - second half]
Similarly, the Falklands War did not simply happen from any surprise Argentinian invasion - as the talk was getting more boisterous
As for the invasion of Kuwait by Sadam Hussein, the signs were written on the wall, and the intelligence services must have picked up all the nuances of an invasion, except for the complacency of the US Administration and the Kuwaiti Government.
After the first Desert Storm War - it was discovered that Sadam was spoiling for a fight to resettle the political landscape in the Middle East, which arose from his taking the lead position in preventing the Iranian Revolution from spreading and affecting the Regional Rulers in the Middle East.
Perhaps about the only invasion that was so cleverly hidden and executed was probably the Egyptian crossing of the Suez Canal that led to the Yom Kippur War - resulting in Egypt regaining its title to the Sinai Peninsula.
There maybe lessons to be learnt in how best to avoid such surprises; and this can range from the careful gathering of intelligence, its interpretation by Human Specialists, or by way of technology assisted intelligence gathering.
The Civilian and Military Leadership will have to be more diligent in the gathering and interpretation of intelligence information; as well as the intelligent and timely inter-facing of equipment and manpower.
1.0 ‘Adolf Hitler – Rise of Nazism’
2.0 ‘Pearl Harbor – Mother of All Conspiracies’
3.1 ‘Cultural History of Poland – its History of Ethnic Relations’
3.2 ‘New Evidence on the 1941 ‘Barbarossa’ Attack : Why Hitler Attacked Soviet Russia When He Did’
4.0 ‘Two major Intelligence Failure in the Korean Peninsular – 1950s’
5.0 ‘Several Reasons Why Saddam Hussein Invaded Kuwait’
While we can plan for Singapore not to be sucked into any "long running wars" - we must also prepare for the worst case scenario that the island may face a strong counter-attack that can overwhelm and break up our front line forces.
In such a case, the urban warfare will take on the lines of war in downtown Beirut in Lebanon.
City roads will have to be blocked, to form defensible axis and killing zones, and this will require the strategic demolition of specific buildings so as to achieve the strategic plans of defending Singapore.
Facts remain, Poland and the Soviet were not prepared when the German attacked, the American sailors were enjoying their morning sun when the Jap attacked, South Korea and Kuwait were taken by total surprise when their enemy attacked. Israel was at war with the neighbouring countries before the start of Yom Kippur war and there was no excuse for being taken by surprise.
The Chinese says, 看而��，�而�闻，知而��。you looked but didn't see, you heard but didn't listen, you knew but didn't accept.
How often when we were caught speeding then we realised that the speed sign actually says 70 instead of 90, and the speedo meter had been showing speed exceeding the limit. But we didn't see.
Many people heard so much about sub-prime loan crisis, even Wee Cho Yeow said it months ago that the financial problem is expected to be worse than anything he ever knew in his many years in banking, but nobody really care until the trouble with banks began to appear on the news.
The people in New Orlean were told of the strength of Katrina but refused to evacuate, because in that area, hurricane came and went.
I believe indications about the financial crisis are all over the wall along the wall street, but why no action was taken?
The suffering of defeat and the pain of being occupied fade as peace stretches. We may not have that experience but we need to be aware. The younger ones need to know, more so if they want to talk about politics and military affairs on a computer.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
Beginning of WWII is one of my favourite topics and I have read quite a lot of writings on it and examined the evidence.
The conclusion is that Britain's plot was to instigate a war between Germany and Russia.
This is completely clear.
Maybe I will start a thread to discuss this topic in more depth.
Illuminati conspiracies are quite popular on the internet. I have also examined this type of information on the web.
The conclusion that I have drawn is that it is complete horseshit propagated by nuts.
Of course in order to convince illuminati believers on this truth, we have to analyse the data.
Good that you have a strong interest in World History - especially the events leading to the WW-2.
Is the "Conspiracy Theory" - about Britain's plot to instigate a war between Germany and Russia - your own conclusion after reading various articles, or your acceptance of some influential author's points of view ?
The general works that analysed Britain's efforts during the 1930s had concluded that there existed some desparation to re-arm and "to buy time" through negotiations with the Governments encouraging the rising militarism in Germany, Italy and Japan.
During the 1930s, the various British Governments under different Prime Ministers were seen - by different writers - to have been directionless in their attitudes and policies to overcome the economic constraints that co-incide with the need to rebuild their military strength.
It culminated in Neville Chamberlain coming into center stage in Britains politics, and becoming the most decisive Prime Minister to negotiate a settlement with Hitler that allowed Britain and France some time to prepare themselves for war that was seen to be inevitable.
Adolf Hitler had found the terms of the Treaty of Versailles that ended WW-1 as not being fair to Germany, and had blamed the Treaty for Germany's economic morass during the Post-WW-1 period. His aggressive Nazism ideology to regain German pride included the expansion of her borders, which could easily have caused an European War to occur before Britain was even prepared.
With a resurgent and aggressive Adolf Hitler claiming German territorial rights to the land parcel called Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia - Europe was sitting on a powder keg waiting to explode.
Britain under Neville Chamberlain had to negotiate a compromise settlement with Adolf Hitler to prevent a war from erupting in Europe.
The compromise was later proven to be false, as it was later disgracefully called "the Appeasement" that failed to satisfy Adolf Hitler, who had used the Sudetenland as a cover for his expansion plans to swallow the entire Czechoslovakia first - then Poland.
The reference sites given in my previous posts had shown that Stalin's Communist Agents had penetrated the highest positions of Government in Britain, as well as in Adolf Hitler's cabinet - with Hitler's most trusted Second-in-Command Hermann Goering also a Communist Agent.
Was it Neville Chamberlain's plot to push Germany to invade Russia, or was it Stalin's plot to instigate Adolf Hitler to invade Russia - so as to give Russia the excuse to attack Germany, and swallow all of East Europe for herself ?
Concerning your idea to start a thread to discuss your idea of Chamberlain's plot to push Hitler to attack Russia - I am not sure if this will lead to any worthwhile results, when the idea is controversial at best with little information that can be seen to be credible to support your position.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
Facts remain, Poland and the Soviet were not prepared when the German attacked, the American sailors were enjoying their morning sun when the Jap attacked, South Korea and Kuwait were taken by total surprise when their enemy attacked. Israel was at war with the neighbouring countries before the start of Yom Kippur war and there was no excuse for being taken by surprise.
Was Poland and the Soviet not prepared when the Germans attacked ?
There is a difference between not prepared and not being able to prepare.
With all the publicity given to the rise in Adolf Hitler's popularity in sweeping the German psyche with his Nazism ideology, and his popular aggressive expansion policy to regain German pride - do you seriously believe that the various governments in Europe, Britain and Soviet Russia are all not prepared for the inevitable German attack ?
Surely, you must know that the 1930s was a period of the Great Economic Depression - and many governments were already bogged down by their economic problems that required them to trim their military, even when they realised that Germany had thrown out the Treaty of Versailles that brought peace to Europe and requiring them to keep and to strengthen their military ?
On 30 September 1938, Neville Chamberlain had bought time for Britain by pushing for Germany, France, Italy and Britain to sign the Munich Treaty that allowed Germany to takeover a parcel of land called Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia.
Unfortunately, Hitler decided to swallow up the entire Czechoslovakia in March 1939, and continued to invade Poland after that. {See reference}
Was Washington not aware of the Japanese Plans to attack Pearl Harbor, or was it that the information got loss down the chain of command ? {See reference}
Again, with regards to the North Korean surprised attack against South Korea, the US Intelligence Agencies were aware of the build-up of the North Koreans, and the infrastructure that it was buildling prior to the attack.
While the speed and intensity of the North Korean attack can be surprising in the form that it displayed, the intelligence services although poorly organised after WW-2, had already warned of the threats posed by North Korean militancy.
The irrational conduct of North Korea's Ruler - Kim Il-Sung - deceived the US led forces to become complacent. {See reference}
Saddam Hussein's intention to invade Kuwait was already loudly declared before he actually carried out his threat, and the US Government of Mr Bush Sr had sent representatives that gave the wrong signals to Saddam Hussein.
Kuwait was surely aware of the massing of Saddam's military force ready to invade Kuwait - it was yet again, the Policy of Appeasement that misled the major players into "earth shaking decisions that changed the World". {See reference}
Amongst the History of Wars - the total failure of the Israeli intelligence in wrongly estimating the disposition of her enemies allowed them to launch a surprise attack that resulted in the worst blows endured by Israel during what is now known as the Yom Kippur War.
This total failure in the Israeli Intelligence is unlike that of the poor collation and or poor distribution of the analysed intelligence information to the front line troops - which resulted in the attack on Pearl Harbor; or the poor defense put up by the Czechoslovakian and Polish troops when Germany invaded these countries.
Similarly, it was not due to a lack of information available to the US government that allowed Osama Bin Laden to launch a successful attack against US civilian targets, but it was entirely due to the poor co-ordination of both human resource amongst the different US Intelligence Agencies.
‘1938: Peace for our time - Chamberlain’
‘Two Strategic Intelligence Mistakes in Korea - 1950’
‘The Making of Mr Bush’s War : A Failure to Learn from History’
The Chinese says, 看而��，�而�闻，知而��。you looked but didn't see, you heard but didn't listen, you knew but didn't accept.
How often when we were caught speeding then we realised that the speed sign actually says 70 instead of 90, and the speedo meter had been showing speed exceeding the limit. But we didn't see.
Even when you do not see the speedo meter indicating the excessive speed over the limits, being experienced drivers, one should already have the "feel" of the actual travel speed of the vehicle.
One tend to ignore it, as one is confident of the situation that one has committed into from past experience.
This is not due to ignorance, but confidence.
Many people heard so much about sub-prime loan crisis, even Wee Cho Yeow said it months ago that the financial problem is expected to be worse than anything he ever knew in his many years in banking, but nobody really care until the trouble with banks began to appear on the news.
Unfortunately, whatever Wee Cho Yeow had said a few months ago was negated by what Lee Kuan Yew said in July 2008 - that Singapore will see good times over the next five to ten years !!!!
The problem with the present situation is that no one was able to put a finger on the problem as it was a problem that evolved not locally - but in the USA.
The sub-prime problem was a US problem that was packaged creatively by US financial derivitative traders and resold to other overseas banks as some new financial products to be traded.
Some banks fell for it, while other more conservative and cautious ones stayed clear of products that are seen to be dubious.
As events have been reported in Singapore, many retirees have placed their trust in the supremely talented Singapore Government to regulate the local Banks, and also in the Government Linked Companies such as DBS to offer trustworthy programs.
Unfortunately, the situation is not so.
Before the events exploded - should Singaporeans have listened to Wee Cho Yeow, or Lee Kuan Yew ?
The people in New Orlean were told of the strength of Katrina but refused to evacuate, because in that area, hurricane came and went.
Yes, the intensity of Hurricane Katrina was unheard of, and as past experience with hurricanes have left many New Orlean residents to remain calm in facing the storm.
Experience is supposed to teach and guide Humans to face the future - perhaps this experience will change the attitudes of the survivors of Katrina.
I believe indications about the financial crisis are all over the wall along the wall street, but why no action was taken?
The suffering of defeat and the pain of being occupied fade as peace stretches. We may not have that experience but we need to be aware. The younger ones need to know, more so if they want to talk about politics and military affairs on a computer.
If you are referring to the events in New York's Wall Street - there is little that can be done in Singapore.
As to the inaction by the US Government, there have been repeated debates and discussions - over the various cable news channels - as to what should have been done over the last five years.
Even the presidential campaigns of Obama and McCain had revealed as much of their early concerns that were drowned out by the political interests of those in the seat of power looking after their respective Constituencies.
The inaction is not due to unawareness by the US government, but also due to the conflicting interests in getting the US economy back into shape - at a time when tightening the regulations on housing loans will affect the home building industry, leading to another set of economic problems.
Perhaps the highly paid talent of the Singapore Cabinet could be contracted out to help the US Government - and which will help Singapore to recover the huge amounts paid out in salary to our Ministers who does nothing much to protect Singaporeans, and blaming all our woes on external factors that are beyond their control.
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The general works that analysed Britain's efforts during the 1930s had concluded that there existed some desparation to re-arm and "to buy time" through negotiations with the Governments encouraging the rising militarism in Germany, Italy and Japan.
During the 1930s, the various British Governments under different Prime Ministers were seen - by different writers - to have been directionless in their attitudes and policies to overcome the economic constraints that co-incide with the need to rebuild their military strength.
It culminated in Neville Chamberlain coming into center stage in Britains politics, and becoming the most decisive Prime Minister to negotiate a settlement with Hitler that allowed Britain and France some time to prepare themselves for war that was seen to be inevitable.
British propaganda only. Buy time, buy lan jiao time.
They cover up their plot to instigate German-Russia war. Don't want to teach proper history. Cover up like Japanese cover up WWII history.
British Prime Minister himself also did not deny Chamberlain's strategy of instigating war.
Mao Zedong talks with ex-British PM Edward Health:
Heath: I think the Soviet Union has a lot of troubles. They are facing domestic economic difficulties and agricultural predicament, and there are also differences within the leadership, over questions of tactics and timing, not over long-term strategy.
Mao: I think the Soviet Union is busy with its own affairs and unable to deal with Europe, the Middle East, South Asia, China and the Pacific. I think it will lose.Heath: However, its military strength is continually augmented. Although the Soviet Union has encountered troubles at many places in the world, its strength is continuing to grow. Therefore, we deem this to be the principal threat. Does the Chairman think the Soviet Union constitutes a menace to China?Mao: We are prepared for it to come, but it will collapse if it comes. It has only a handful of troops, and you Europeans are so frightened of it! Some people in the West are always trying to direct this calamity toward China. Your senior, Chamberlain, and also Daladier of France were the ones who pushed Germany eastward.Heath: I opposed Mr. Chamberlain then. -
The reference sites given in my previous posts had shown that Stalin's Communist Agents had penetrated the highest positions of Government in Britain, as well as in Adolf Hitler's cabinet - with Hitler's most trusted Second-in-Command Hermann Goering also a Communist Agent.
That's bullshit source lah Atobe. Surprised at you using these trash sites as source.
Was it Neville Chamberlain's plot to push Germany to invade Russia, or was it Stalin's plot to instigate Adolf Hitler to invade Russia - so as to give Russia the excuse to attack Germany, and swallow all of East Europe for herself ?
It was Chamberlain who wanted Germany to go eastwards and destroy Russia.
Stalin did not want Germany to destroy Russia.
Two weeks after Munich Baldwin said in a conversation with Lord Hinchingbrooke: "Can't we turn Hitler East? Napoleon broke himself against the Russians. Hitler might do the same".
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This strategy of letting Germany go eastwards and finish off Russia was discussed by british politicians in the mid 1930s.
Neville Chamberlain executed the policy from 1937 onwards.
Date: 04 Aug 1936
Scope/content:
Letter from Major-General Sir Hugh Tudor, St John's Newfoundland, Canada to WSC, on the European situation. Commenting that Britain should make a strong western pact with France and Germany, and allow Germany to "settle" the Soviet Union and Bolshevism "in her own way". Stating that Germany would eventually be stronger after defeating Russia, and it would take years before her to be in a position to make war again. "Russia deserves what is coming to her as she will never stop undermining capitalistic governments in every way she can." Commenting that if left alone Russia would be the stongest power on earth in 10 years, and may be a more dangerous enemy than Germany. Praising WSC for "bradawling" the Government over re-armament.
http://www-archives.chu.cam.ac.uk/perl/node?search
Date: 16 Aug 1936
Scope/content:
Letter from WSC to Major-General Sir Hugh Tudor, thanks for letter on the European political situation. Commenting that a strong and growing section of Conservative opinion agreed with Tudor that Britain should form a strong Western Alliance with France and Germany, leaving Germany free to deal with the Soviet Union.
http://www-archives.chu.cam.ac.uk/perl/node?search_id=1178907
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According to historian Eric Hobsbawn:"Many a good conservative felt, especially in Britain, that the best of all solutions would be a German-Soviet war, weakening, perhaps destroying both enemies, and a defeat of Bolshevism by a weakened Germany would be no bad thing"
http://joehendren.blogspot.com/2005/10/nazis-well-established-baggage-of-far.html
...Then in July 1936 the Spanish civil war began. Tory ideological dread was brought to a fine edge. The Spanish civil war could lead to a European conflict between ideological blocs; and war could provoke the spread of communist revolution or Soviet influence. It was better, a lot of Tories thought, to turn Germany eastward against the USSR."Let gallant little Germany glut her fill of reds in the East..., " suggested one Tory M.P. (Henry Channon, September 1936).
Even the British prime minister, Stanley Baldwin was attracted by the idea...
http://gozips.uakron.edu/%7Emcarley/COLDWAR.html
There is one danger, of course, which has probably been in all your minds - supposing the Russians and Germans got fighting and the French went in as allies of Russia owing to that appalling pact they made, you would not feel you were obligated to go and help France, would you? If there is any fighting in Europe to be done, I should like to see the Bolshies and the Nazis doing it.
- Stanley Baldwin, July 1936
http://books.google.com/books?id=qVMXHWtCeAUCTwo weeks after Munich Baldwin said in a conversation with Lord Hinchingbrooke: "Can't we turn Hitler East? Napoleon broke himself against the Russians. Hitler might do the same"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Baldwin#Later_life
Eden noted in his diary after talks with Hitler:"Only thing Hitler wants is Air Pact without limitation. Simon much inclined to bite at this....I had to protest and he gave up the idea.... Simon toys with the idea of letting Germany expand eastwards. I am strongly against. Apart from dishonesty it would be our turn next"(cited in Dutton 1994, 50).
http://books.google.com.sg/books?i[John Simon was part of Chamberlain's inner circle during his government in 1937-1940, he and others implemented the plan to push Germany eastwards]
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...And by this date, certain members of the Milner Group and of the British Conservative government had reached the fantastic idea that they could kill two birds with one stone by setting Germany and Russia against one another in Eastern Europe.
In this way they felt that the two enemies would stalemate one another, or that Germany would become satisfied with the oil of Rumania and the wheat of the Ukraine. It never occurred to anyone in a responsible position that Germany and Russia might make common cause, even temporarily, against the West. Even less did it occur to them that Russia might beat Germany and thus open all Central Europe to Bolshevism.
This idea of bringing Germany into a collision with Russia was not to be found, so far as the evidence shows, among any members of the inner circle of the Milner Group.
Rather it was to be found among the personal associates of Neville Chamberlain, including several members of the second circle of the Milner Group.
The two policies followed parallel courses until March 1939. After that date the Milner Group’s disintegration became very evident, and part of it took the form of the movement of several persons (like Hoare and Simon) from the second circle of the Milner Group to the inner circle of the new group rotating around Chamberlain.
This process was concealed by the fact that this new group was following, in public at least, the policy desired by the Milner Group; their own policy, which was really the continuation of appeasement for another year after March 1939, was necessarily secret, so that the contrast between the Chamberlain group and the inner circle of the Milner Group in the period after March 1939 was not as obvious as it might have been.
In order to carry out this plan of allowing Germany to drive eastward against Russia, it was necessary to do three things:
(1) to liquidate all the countries standing between Germany and Russia;
(2) to prevent France from honoring her alliances with these countries; and
(3) to hoodwink the English people into accepting this as a necessary, indeed, the only solution to the international problem.
The Chamberlain group were so successful in all three of these things that they came within an ace of succeeding, and failed only because of the obstinacy of the Poles, the unseemly haste of Hitler, and the fact that at the eleventh hour the Milner Group realized the implications of their policy and tried to reverse it...
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It was Britain's strategy to allow Germany to annex Austria, Sudetenland, Danzig and Polish Corridor so as to close the gap between the frontiers of Germany and Russia.
After these areas had been annexed, Britain expected Hitler to attack Russia by driving across the baltic states into Russia.
For this reason, when Hitler wanted to take territories in the east, Britain did not oppose but support and accept.
This is the true story that Britain wants to cover up.
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Russian Foreign Intelligence Service declassifies Munich Agreement papers
MOSCOW. (RIA Novosti's Valery Yarmolenko) - The Russian Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR in Russian abbreviation) has declassified archive materials related to the 1938 Munich Agreement, which triggered the most dramatic events of the 20th century.
Head of the SVR press office Sergei Ivanov allowed Yarmolenko to familiarize himself with the declassified documents.
"The declassified intelligence documents reflect the political processes which took place before and after the Munich Agreement of September 30, 1938, which is also called the 'Munich conspiracy,'" Ivanov explained.
These documents were kept in the archives as top secret for 70 years. They show that the Soviet political leadership was informed about the preparations for the meeting of Neville Chamberlain and Eduard Daladier, on the one hand, and Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini, on the other, and predict its potential military and political consequences for Europe. The papers show what unprecedented pressure Britain and France brought to bear on Czechoslovakia, demanding that it ceded Sudeten to Germany.
"Moscow was receiving secret reports to the effect that the British and French ambassadors in Prague were persuading the Czechoslovak president to give over the Sudeten region to the Germans. Moreover, Prague was offered to cancel mutual assistance pacts with other countries," Ivanov said.
Memo #8604, which was sent to Moscow by Russian intelligence from Prague several days before the signing of the Munich Agreement reads: "On September 19, British Ambassador Newton and French Ambassador De Lacroix conveyed to Milan Hodza (Czechoslovak prime minister in 1935-1938) the following on behalf of Chamberlain and Daladier, respectfully:
"Guided by the lofty principles of preserving peace in Europe, they consider it necessary for Germany to incorporate the Sudeten region. A system of mutual aid pacts with other countries should be cancelled. Instead, all of Czechoslovakia's neighbors, plus France and Britain will guarantee the inviolability of its frontiers."
These actions destroyed the existing elements of the collective resistance system. The Western policymakers did this behind the back of the Soviet Union, which had mutual aid agreements with Czechoslovakia and France.
The 1938 declassified documents also reveal the details of the correspondence between European embassies and their foreign policy departments.
For example, the British ambassador in Warsaw warned the Foreign Office that if Germany invaded Czechoslovakia, the Polish leadership would seize the Tesin region, and that is what exactly happened. Having enlisted Germany's support, Poland took part in dismembering Czechoslovakia. Later, Poland also fell victim to Germany.
The Finnish ambassador in London reported that if Hitler moved his troops to Czechoslovakia, France would not be able to render it effective military aid.
"The Soviet Union was ready to render such support to Czechoslovakia, but because of the heavy pressure from London and Paris, Prague did not dare address Moscow with such a request," Ivanov recalled.
Soviet intelligence sources reported that many capitals closely watched the geopolitical situation in Europe after the conclusion of the Munich Agreement as well.
"As early as November 1938, diplomatic missions of a number of countries reported to their departments that Britain and France would not prevent Germany's eastward expansion," Ivanov said.
SVR veteran, Maj.-Gen. Lev Sotskov (Ret.), who sorted the archive documents, is confident that the Munich Agreement eventually destroyed the collective security system in Europe and led to the outbreak of WWII.
Sotskov served in the Foreign Intelligence Service since 1956 both abroad and in the central office. Now he is studying the archives on the history of intelligence. He wrote "Operation Tarantella" and "Unknown Separatism," and took part in the compilation of a collection of documents, entitled "Baltic Countries and Geopolitics."
Sotskov believes that the declassified documents make it possible to take a new and deeper look at the role the world leaders played in the late 1930s in Europe.
"The documents received after the Munich conspiracy are particularly valuable. They analyze the post-Munich situation in Europe and clearly show that Britain was trying to draw Germany and the Soviet Union into active hostilities," Sotskov emphasized in an interview with RIA Novosti.
In a memo on December 21, 1938, Lavrenty Beria reported to Stalin about the Soviet-seized documents, which included reports of Finnish envoys to London, Paris, and Warsaw on Germany's eastward expansion, and the position of the British, French, and Polish governments on this issue.
Thus, Finnish Ambassador in London Grippenberg reported to his Foreign Ministry: "I heard the opinion that German propaganda of colonies is false. As Britons put it, it is a smokescreen to cover the preparations of a plan concerning Soviet Ukraine. Hitler himself told French Ambassador Francois-Poncet that he was not even thinking about any colonies," the document reads.
Later, on November 25, Grippenberg reported his conversation with a British government member who assured him that Britain and France would not interfere in Germany's eastward expansion.
"Britain's position is as follows: let's wait until Germany and the U.S.S.R. get involved in a big conflict," the document reads.
Commenting on it, Sotskov explained that despite the circumstances, the Soviet Union was still trying to set up some system for resisting the Nazi aggression. As a result, Britain and France had to send their military missions to Moscow for negotiations.
"Moscow presented very detailed information about the resources which it could use against Hitler's Germany. In the event of an anti-Hitler agreement with Britain and France, the U.S.S.R. was ready to employ 120 infantry divisions, 16 cavalry divisions, 5,000 tanks and as many aircraft," Sotskov said.
However, despite this, the talks with Britain and France failed. It became obvious that they were working toward their super goal, he noted.
The documents make it abundantly clear that both Britain and France realized that their position was driving the U.S.S.R. into a corner and that Moscow would have to come to terms with the Germans.
As a result, the U.S.S.R. signed the Nonaggression Pact with Germany, which allowed it to move its border to the West and gain some time for the preparations to repel the aggression, Sotskov explained.
"It became obvious that a policy of appeasing Hitler did not work, and that concessions only encouraged him further. This compelled the Soviet leadership to look for ways of ensuring national security in this foreign policy environment," he pointed out.
"The Western model of appeasing the aggressor (the Munich Agreement) failed to achieve the desired effect, and the war broke out in the West. France surrendered to Hitler, and the cabinet of ministers changed in Britain. The anti-Hitler coalition took shape later under the pattern suggested by the Soviet Union in 1935: the United States, Britain, the Soviet Union, and later de Gaulle's France," Sotskov said.
He believes that Europe should draw conclusions from the events around the Munich Agreement, as well as from the events in the Balkans and the recent crisis in the Caucasus (South Ossetia).
"First of all, appeasing any aggressor, whether big or small, is a flawed policy. The United States wants to dominate the world, and it does not matter whose model, Hitler's or Bush's, it is using to achieve this goal," he said.
Unless aggressive actions are nipped in the bud, the region and probably the entire continent will be in for big trouble, Sotskov believes.
He is convinced that Europe needs a system of collective security, and this is the second lesson. "The bloc system no longer works. However, it transpires that the lesson has not been learned. Instead of curbing Georgia, the aggressor, the United States suggests encircling Russia," he summed up.
http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080929/117271264.html
Munich secrets: declassified