Originally posted by Stevenson101:Wow, someone who presume they know who i am. Just for your information, i do help with the family utility bills and groceries, and i make a point of keeping track of my monthly electrical bills to adjust my usage.
I am not paid to think for the government and i don't see why your job position as a Business IT Expert has anything to do with this discussion. Quite frankly, i'm actually disappointed that such a highly educated individual would fail to see how the world's supply chains would affect us.
Supply chains should concern us because we have to import every single thing we use. Considering that more than 90% of what we own is foreign made, what gives you the conclusion that supply chains would not and should not concern you?
And i've already answered the question of the higher electrical prices. Because we're using LNG for power generation, rather than the cheaper coal. Or would you accept my explanation better if i just said the Singapore ministers want to squeeze more money from us?
I merely offer a more objective reasoning to the raising electrical prices other than "the government is out to get us". If you feel my reasoning is wrong, point out what you feel is wrong.
And are you in the supply chain or oil industry or even in power generation that you feel that your reasoning is correct? If you are, then fine, I will accept that and start deliberating over your points.
That's what I am trying to say when I say I am in the field of Business IT. I don't pretend to know a lot about supply chain and how they ration their oil supply for our generation of electricity, even though I have supply chain logistics experience to know enough. That's what I am saying. I am only good in what I am good in. I don't go about pretending to know how many keys are there in a piano, how many strings are there in a piano. I only know how a piano looks like, and i know the brands that make good pianos.
Seriously, is the increase in crude oil price related to the price of LNG? Coz you make it sound as if becoz we use LNG, our power generation has to be much more expensive. This reasoning is a little flawed for the following reasons:
- All increases in price of electricity over the past few mths are informed to us that it is because of the increase in crude oil price. I don't recall it's related to LNG, though I would gladly hope you can provide some info if you have it.
- Therefore, now that the price of crude oil has fallen, we should see a corresponding decrease in price. Yet, now you are telling me that coz LNG is part of the input for our power generation, then the fall in price of electricity is limited.
So price go up = Crude Oil price went up?
So price go down, limited coz now we have LNG price to consider?
If the above is not what you are elaborating, then feel free to correct me.
Originally posted by skythewood:do i look like the government? did i say the government is right? fuck you, fuck PAP. why can't i find out the truth instead of simply taking a stand? fuck PAP fuck PAP fuck PAP, why can't i investigate how they tagged the price of electricity before the increase?
Why must i take everything you say to be the truth, and take everything PAP to be false? fuck you.
Nah, I am not gay. So leave me out of your f**k things.
So what's the truth? Have you found out now?
I never ask you to take what I say to be the truth. I just ask you to scrutinize the PAP's actions. As maurizo13 said, a monopoly can do wonders to their bottom line, at the expense of the people.
Do you remember the good old days when Singtel was the ONLY telco in Singapore? That was when your pagers were $200+, and your mobile phones were $1000+. And they were reluctant to open the market until very much later, and then came out to say that 'IF only we knew that opening the market would benefit the citizens, we would have done so sooner'. Of course they knew.
On a business perspective, I believe I can understand what they are doing. They are protecting the local market to allow Singtel to grow strong enough so that it can compete globally, but that was at the expense of its people. And becoz we are a small country, our burden to strengthen Singtel per person is higher.
But that doesn't mean I agree with their high-handed actions.
Originally posted by soul_rage:And are you in the supply chain or oil industry or even in power generation that you feel that your reasoning is correct? If you are, then fine, I will accept that and start deliberating over your points.
That's what I am trying to say when I say I am in the field of Business IT. I don't pretend to know a lot about supply chain and how they ration their oil supply for our generation of electricity, even though I have supply chain logistics experience to know enough. That's what I am saying. I am only good in what I am good in. I don't go about pretending to know how many keys are there in a piano, how many strings are there in a piano. I only know how a piano looks like, and i know the brands that make good pianos.
Seriously, is the increase in crude oil price related to the price of LNG? Coz you make it sound as if becoz we use LNG, our power generation has to be much more expensive. This reasoning is a little flawed for the following reasons:- All increases in price of electricity over the past few mths are informed to us that it is because of the increase in crude oil price. I don't recall it's related to LNG, though I would gladly hope you can provide some info if you have it.
- Therefore, now that the price of crude oil has fallen, we should see a corresponding decrease in price. Yet, now you are telling me that coz LNG is part of the input for our power generation, then the fall in price of electricity is limited.
So price go up = Crude Oil price went up?
So price go down, limited coz now we have LNG price to consider?
If the above is not what you are elaborating, then feel free to correct me.
So your opinion is that if i do not work in a certain occupation i'm not allowed to research and work out how everything fits together? I read, i bother to go find out websites who can describe such workings in detail and see how the experience of others is related to ours.
Then you do not work in Temasek management and not intimate to its daily functioning either, you are making assumptions just as much as i am no?You do not work in ministerial positions, you are making guesses as much as my assumptions.
LNG still requires oil in order to be transported around ( tankers, truckers..etc) as well as fossil fuel investment for supply infrastructure (processing terminals)
I quote
LNG is usually viewed as a premium fuel, like oil, due to its relative cleanliness, ease of use and ability to be transported by sea over long distances. For these reasons, and the fact that Japan initially imported LNG partly to substitute for oil-based fuels, oil prices have historically been used as the basis for setting the price of LNG in the Asia-Pacific region under long-term contracts.
The full text is here
http://www.med.govt.nz/templates/MultipageDocumentTOC____39562.aspx
It's a NZ site, so i can't be accused of quoting from "biased" local media.
Thus, LNG cost is related to oil prices and will be subjected to price increase along with oil.
Anything, irregardless of the China made milk powder or LNG requires oil to be transported across the seas to Singapore.In Singapore's LNG case, transported to the terminals so it can be funnelled through pipes to us.
With the internet, it's not hard to find out how many keys are there in a piano, how many strings are there in a piano and what brands are good. Forums are there so it's easy to get an idea of what constitutes a good piano and what doesn't. So while i may not know what determines a great piano, i at least know what a good piano would be like.
You work in Business IT, and have deal with Logistics Chain Management. So i'm sure you're going to know that the idea of using IT is to compile the logistical data to determine how much goods i'm going to buy for next month. I have a diploma in IT and some experience as a sales person so i roughly understand how that would work.
If you put in your order for next month and it arrives just as the prices drop, is the supplier going to refund you the difference? I'm pretty sure that's not really a business practice. So how can you expect the prices to drop to the corresponding level immediately?
I just look at things in terms of cause and effect. If i'm using something, why does it come from and how much effort did it took to arrive in my hands. I don't have to be an industry expert to understand things in such terms, all i have to do is observe my surroundings and direct my enquires to the internet.
Originally posted by Stevenson101:So your opinion is that if i do not work in a certain occupation i'm not allowed to research and work out how everything fits together? I read, i bother to go find out websites who can describe such workings in detail and see how the experience of others is related to ours.
Then you do not work in Temasek management and not intimate to its daily functioning either, you are making assumptions just as much as i am no?You do not work in ministerial positions, you are making guesses as much as my assumptions.
LNG still requires oil in order to be transported around ( tankers, truckers..etc) as well as fossil fuel investment for supply infrastructure (processing terminals)
I quote
The full text is here
http://www.med.govt.nz/templates/MultipageDocumentTOC____39562.aspx
It's a NZ site, so i can't be accused of quoting from "biased" local media.
Thus, LNG cost is related to oil prices and will be subjected to price increase along with oil.
Anything, irregardless of the China made milk powder or LNG requires oil to be transported across the seas to Singapore.In Singapore's LNG case, transported to the terminals so it can be funnelled through pipes to us.
With the internet, it's not hard to find out how many keys are there in a piano, how many strings are there in a piano and what brands are good. Forums are there so it's easy to get an idea of what constitutes a good piano and what doesn't. So while i may not know what determines a great piano, i at least know what a good piano would be like.
You work in Business IT, and have deal with Logistics Chain Management. So i'm sure you're going to know that the idea of using IT is to compile the logistical data to determine how much goods i'm going to buy for next month. I have a diploma in IT and some experience as a sales person so i roughly understand how that would work.
If you put in your order for next month and it arrives just as the prices drop, is the supplier going to refund you the difference? I'm pretty sure that's not really a business practice. So how can you expect the prices to drop to the corresponding level immediately?
I just look at things in terms of cause and effect. If i'm using something, why does it come from and how much effort did it took to arrive in my hands. I don't have to be an industry expert to understand things in such terms, all i have to do is observe my surroundings and direct my enquires to the internet.
You may, but your reasonings will be discounted because you are not an expert in that field. I am refraining from going into specifics like supply chain and logistics, because no matter how much you research, you will still not know enough.
All I am reasoning is along what I can see. Price goes up becoz Oil price goes up. Price cannot come down that much coz suddenly we have so many other criteria of costs. This itself is already very debatable.
But thanks, it's good you bring up your line of reasoning, because it seems that based on what you say, I think we can reason that our top management is incapable. Unlike other countries, where they can keep electricity costs down when price drops, we are not able to (and went up instead). So I can only say that our authorities are weak in projecting, have the wrong policy in place, etc.
And by the way, compiling logistical data is one thing. IT is merely a tool. Being able to analyze and determine a good price based on historical data, and then having the good negotiators coming in to agree on a good price with the vendors, are all other aspects of the business. Hiring the right people will maximize the ability to determine a good price, and to negotiate successfully. So based on what you are telling me, we have a group of incapable people up there, such that prices are determined at such a high when oil prices fall. OR we have a lousy policy, such that we don't react fast enough, which tells me the authority should get the sack.
The above is likened to a situation, when all other countries are expanding their economy because the global economy is expanding, but there is one country where the economy is contracting instead. So it tells me only that the govt is incapable.
Originally posted by Stevenson101:You work in Business IT, and have deal with Logistics Chain Management. So i'm sure you're going to know that the idea of using IT is to compile the logistical data to determine how much goods i'm going to buy for next month. I have a diploma in IT and some experience as a sales person so i roughly understand how that would work.
If you put in your order for next month and it arrives just as the prices drop, is the supplier going to refund you the difference? I'm pretty sure that's not really a business practice. So how can you expect the prices to drop to the corresponding level immediately?
The above clearly demonstrates your lack of ability to apply your knowledge. You say you read a lot on the internet. But do you truly understand what you have read?
The IT Portion of your posting clearly shows your lack of knowledge of how a business works, and how IT is applied to optimize a business. Everyone can use the SAME system, but what returns of investment they can get out of it, is dependent on the brains in the business. You make it sound so easy, as if all businesses would not go bankrupt if they have an IT System.
In the 2nd paragraph, it demonstrates your lack of knowledge of negotiation. There are various ways of hedging the volatily of price fluctuations. One simple way is to get an agreement with your vendor, that if the price should move up or down beyond a certain agreed delta, then what you pay for the goods can be adjusted. Again, it shows your lack of understanding of running a business.
That's what I mean, that if you are not an expert in that area, no matter how much you read, your lack of ability to apply what you read will be exposed easily.
Otherwise, why do you need a university degree, if all you need to do is to read from the internet and you can think like the experts of that field?
Originally posted by soul_rage:
Otherwise, why do you need a university degree, if all you need to do is to read from the internet and you can think like the experts of that field?
Out 10 bosses in singapore, 7 never attend University
Originally posted by angel7030:
Out 10 bosses in singapore, 7 never attend University
That statistic is fast changing. To talk about the above (which I wonder where the 7/10 stats come from), let's go back to the past.
In the past, a university degree is a luxury. Most of these bosses were graduate material and in the past, most families' financials could ill afford an education. If you consider them growing up in the current times, they would be university graduates, but becoz of the past, they go direct to business instead. I am sure they now value a degree and would ensure their children gets one. LKY had a degree from Cambridge becoz his family was more well-to-do, LHL has a degree from Cambridge as well. And your great govt once laughed at Chiam See Tong for scoring Bs and Cs in his education. Almost 100% of your MPs these days are university graduates.
You can be sure that your statistic will change as more and more people are able to afford a university education.
That said, having a university education doesn't equate to one becoming more intelligent. Getting A grades also doesn't equate to success. It's more dependent on the individual being the one who seeks actively for more knowledge, and then being able to apply the knowledge that what one learns in life..
Knowledge is power, only if you learn how to apply it.
Originally posted by soul_rage:
That statistic is fast changing. To talk about the above (which I wonder where the 7/10 stats come from), let's go back to the past.In the past, a university degree is a luxury. Most of these bosses were graduate material and in the past, most families' financials could ill afford an education. If you consider them growing up in the current times, they would be university graduates, but becoz of the past, they go direct to business instead. I am sure they now value a degree and would ensure their children gets one. LKY had a degree from Cambridge becoz his family was more well-to-do, LHL has a degree from Cambridge as well. And your great govt once laughed at Chiam See Tong for scoring Bs and Cs in his education. Almost 100% of your MPs these days are university graduates.
You can be sure that your statistic will change as more and more people are able to afford a university education.
That said, having a university education doesn't equate to one becoming more intelligent. Getting A grades also doesn't equate to success. It's more dependent on the individual being the one who seeks actively for more knowledge, and then being able to apply the knowledge that what one learns in life..
Knowledge is power, only if you learn how to apply it.
University paper is good for public service jobs, how many people can be a Prime Minister or MM, so to speak, look at Bengawan solo aunty boss, Polar cakes boss, Beechenshiang bak kwa boss, OCBC boss, OUB boss, creative boss, kopitiam boss, popular books boss etc etc, some can only speak dialects, but they employed graduate accountant, HR, managers etc etc
Originally posted by angel7030:
University paper is good for public service jobs, how many people can be a Prime Minister or MM, so to speak, look at Bengawan solo aunty boss, Polar cakes boss, Beechenshiang bak kwa boss, OCBC boss, OUB boss, creative boss, kopitiam boss, popular books boss etc etc, some can only speak dialects, but they employed graduate accountant, HR, managers etc etc
First of all, do not mistake me.
I am not discounting the bosses you are talking about, those without a degree. I am just saying that they probably would prefer to have one (and also easily achieve it given their talents) if during those times, they were able to afford one.
Throughout the world, the value of an education is becoming more and more impt. If you watch "The Apprentice", Donald Trump had 2 seasons where its between the Book Smart, and Street Smart, and both times he chose the Book Smart. Not becoz of the degree, but becoz the Book Smart demonstrated the same level of talent as the Street Smart, but at the same time, demonstrated a certain level of foundational basics.
I have been in working circle for about 6 years. It's true that in university, there are many things not taught with respect to outside. But, I have to stress that my knowledge picked up from work may be wide, but they are patchy bits everywhere, without a proper systematic way of stringing all of them together effectively. My accounting knowledge is self-taught due to my work with the Finance dept, and my supply chain knowledge is self-taught due to my work with the Logistics dept, but I guess all these knowledge would have been more solidified if I had a structured education to these domains.
My education in university cannot be applied DIRECTLY to work, but given my foundational technical skills picked up in my education, I am able to adapt and move easily within the IT industry. I have pretty good accounting knowledge, but I can never be a full-fledged accountant, becoz my knowledge is not structured.
You may, but your reasonings will be discounted because you are not an expert in that field. I am refraining from going into specifics like supply chain and logistics, because no matter how much you research, you will still not know enough.
All I am reasoning is along what I can see. Price goes up becoz Oil price goes up. Price cannot come down that much coz suddenly we have so many other criteria of costs. This itself is already very debatable.
But thanks, it's good you bring up your line of reasoning, because it seems that based on what you say, I think we can reason that our top management is incapable. Unlike other countries, where they can keep electricity costs down when price drops, we are not able to (and went up instead). So I can only say that our authorities are weak in projecting, have the wrong policy in place, etc.
And by the way, compiling logistical data is one thing. IT is merely a tool. Being able to analyze and determine a good price based on historical data, and then having the good negotiators coming in to agree on a good price with the vendors, are all other aspects of the business. Hiring the right people will maximize the ability to determine a good price, and to negotiate successfully. So based on what you are telling me, we have a group of incapable people up there, such that prices are determined at such a high when oil prices fall. OR we have a lousy policy, such that we don't react fast enough, which tells me the authority should get the sack.
The above is likened to a situation, when all other countries are expanding their economy because the global economy is expanding, but there is one country where the economy is contracting instead. So it tells me only that the govt is incapable.
You seemed to very selective on the information you want to accept.
The fact that we are a import based country means we have to accept the terms of the export country because we have no leverage to even negotiate the price, competence has nothing to do with it. We want something the rest of the world wants as well, and we have nothing significant to give in exchange.
To simplify it, you want our resources but you got no natural resources that we want? Pay our price or we sell it to someone else.
You are basing your conclusions on what you see, but you do not want to know what sort of processes is done to give you what you see. You just assume that it's incompetence because it's not what you like to see. Would it be fair for me to say you are an incompetent IT expert because i do not understand how your process works, or i'm not used to your application yet?
In the 2nd paragraph, it demonstrates your lack of knowledge of negotiation. There are various ways of hedging the volatily of price fluctuations. One simple way is to get an agreement with your vendor, that if the price should move up or down beyond a certain agreed delta, then what you pay for the goods can be adjusted. Again, it shows your lack of understanding of running a business.
Actually, this shows more of your lack of knowledge than mine.
You are assuming you have control over the vendor, a leverage you can use to negotiate with. If the vendor has something that has huge demand (Oil, in this case), he doesn't need to sell it to you he can sell it to others because he has no problems finding another buyer for it.
Your average neighbourhood commodities shop has to raise the price if the supplier raised it. They can chose to absorb it, but they cannot sustain it for long. Would he/she be considered incompetent for conditions beyond their control?
This is the underlying rule for all business transactions, and relevant irregardless of the advancement of technology.
You have too strong a belief that Singapore has any ability to control world commodity price or even influence it in any way. It's not like we have the capbility to invade another country to gain control over the local resources whenever we like.
The above is likened to a situation, when all other countries are expanding their economy because the global economy is expanding, but there is one country where the economy is contracting instead. So it tells me only that the govt is incapable.
Can you kindly point out in this current economic crisis, which country is actually expanding their economy ? Even China and India is having problems stopping things from spiralling out of control and they have way more muscle than we have, having a stronger domestic consumer base than we have.
Again and again you claim that not having a formal degree in a relevant field means you have no place commenting on the competence of another. And yet you continue to assume that the people making the decisions are incapable, when you have no related experience in what they do.
Isn't that contradictory?
I don't regard myself as an expert, but there are rules of common sense no matter what field you're in.
Time and time again i've posted this.
It's simple facts to why Singapore's electricity bills are on average higher than the 3 above countries and yet you continue to ignore the facts,still complaining about incompetence in a field you have no prior experience in.
Originally posted by soul_rage:First of all, do not mistake me.
I am not discounting the bosses you are talking about, those without a degree. I am just saying that they probably would prefer to have one (and also easily achieve it given their talents) if during those times, they were able to afford one.
Throughout the world, the value of an education is becoming more and more impt. If you watch "The Apprentice", Donald Trump had 2 seasons where its between the Book Smart, and Street Smart, and both times he chose the Book Smart. Not becoz of the degree, but becoz the Book Smart demonstrated the same level of talent as the Street Smart, but at the same time, demonstrated a certain level of foundational basics.
I have been in working circle for about 6 years. It's true that in university, there are many things not taught with respect to outside. But, I have to stress that my knowledge picked up from work may be wide, but they are patchy bits everywhere, without a proper systematic way of stringing all of them together effectively. My accounting knowledge is self-taught due to my work with the Finance dept, and my supply chain knowledge is self-taught due to my work with the Logistics dept, but I guess all these knowledge would have been more solidified if I had a structured education to these domains.
My education in university cannot be applied DIRECTLY to work, but given my foundational technical skills picked up in my education, I am able to adapt and move easily within the IT industry. I have pretty good accounting knowledge, but I can never be a full-fledged accountant, becoz my knowledge is not structured.
And also, do not mistaken me, knowledge is good, education is also good, but you must agree with me that knowledge also bring about fears, oppressive, defensive, pride and one way school of thought.
Example, an U grad who graduated in economic may not be able to take risk better than a non graduate, she may take notice of the risks involved and prevented herself from being expose to failure resulting in her lost of pride, competency and the needs to aruge over her action. All these causes the lack of entrepreneurships in graduates who can even be having master or PhD.
"A" boy who is highly educated calculated his risks of falling down and injure himself if he tried to jump across a wide gap drain to seek freedom and glory, another boy "B" who is not highly educated to calculate so much will leap n jump off base on his instincts, even if he failed, get injured, he gained experience to try it another day, whereas boy "A" still remain as where he is,..a servant.
In Singapore, You can be a trained actors from Paris musical school, you can be graduate in art from the London drama centre...u can be a doctorate graduate in human philosophy, you can be a top student graduated in advertising and marketing...but you can never be a producer, a director, a movie maker, a risk taker and an o level holder as Jack Neo in Singapore.
Originally posted by angel7030:In Singapore, You can be a trained actors from Paris musical school, you can be graduate in art from the London drama centre...u can be a doctorate graduate in human philosophy, you can be a top student graduated in advertising and marketing...but you can never be a producer, a director, a movie maker, a risk taker and an o level holder as Jack Neo in Singapore.
oi u forgotten the toilet cleaner leh
Originally posted by 4sg:oi u forgotten the toilet cleaner leh
oh yeah, talking about toilet cleaners, do u know who is the boss doing taking up cleaning contract that is on the rise even during this time of recession??? The foreign PR Bangalas are now bosses of cleaner companies, where are our graduates?
Originally posted by Stevenson101:The fact that we are a import based country means we have to accept the terms of the export country because we have no leverage to even negotiate the price, competence has nothing to do with it. We want something the rest of the world wants as well, and we have nothing significant to give in exchange.
To simplify it, you want our resources but you got no natural resources that we want? Pay our price or we sell it to someone else.
You are assuming you have control over the vendor, a leverage you can use to negotiate with. If the vendor has something that has huge demand (Oil, in this case), he doesn't need to sell it to you he can sell it to others because he has no problems finding another buyer for it.
Your average neighbourhood commodities shop has to raise the price if the supplier raised it. They can chose to absorb it, but they cannot sustain it for long. Would he/she be considered incompetent for conditions beyond their control?
Can you kindly point out in this current economic crisis, which country is actually expanding their economy ? Even China and India is having problems stopping things from spiralling out of control and they have way more muscle than we have, having a stronger domestic consumer base than we have.
Again and again you claim that not having a formal degree in a relevant field means you have no place commenting on the competence of another. And yet you continue to assume that the people making the decisions are incapable, when you have no related experience in what they do.
Isn't that contradictory?
I don't regard myself as an expert, but there are rules of common sense no matter what field you're in.
- Singapore imports all our commodities and produce no natural commodities. Our survivability depends on the services we render to other countries be it infrastructure building, port facilities..etc.
- The best EROEI natural resources we have access to is Petroleum, Coal, Natural Gas. We chose the more expensive NG and Petroleum because it's less polluting than coal.
- Hongkong, Taiwan and Korea uses coal fired power plants, that's why their energy bills are cheaper.
- LNG still requires fossil fuels to process and transport, that's why NG prices are also influenced by Oil prices.
Time and time again i've posted this.
It's simple facts to why Singapore's electricity bills are on average higher than the 3 above countries and yet you continue to ignore the facts,still complaining about incompetence in a field you have no prior experience in.
Again you show your lack of ability to apply all the knowledge you have. I applaud you for reading, which I can see you do, but again you take things too simply.
You think that negotiation equals, who has greater weight means he has all the say, when in fact, negotiations doesn't work like that.
Negotiation works becoz 2 sides have something of interest, and would like to come to an agreement. It is not just about price, which is how you seemed to equate things simply to.
You put too much emphasis on Singapore having NOTHING, when in fact, we have a commodity called human resource or human talent. Our human talent is rated consistently in the top 10 most productive nationalities in the world. Your point 1 seems to state the fact that so long as a country has resources, we are always on lower grounds. This is again not necessarily true. Switzerland's success in the past was built on their banking system, which is not a natural resource, but a man-made strength.
You belittle human resource, when in fact, the most important resource throughout the globe is human resource, people who are talents who know how to get the best out of everything else.
We have no leverage? You are worse than me, you see your govt as being so pathetic that they have to beg others to sell to us. You think that the whole world there's only one company that sells the natural resource we need, and if we think they are too costly, we can't turn to some others?
That's why, I said again, you expose yourself to your lack of the ability to apply knowledge.
And by the way, I am not assuming the people making the decision are incapable, it's you who made them look that way. Coming back to your point 4, (I am not arguing with you on points 2 and 3 coz they are true), since LNG prices are influenced by oil prices, and since oil prices have dropped so low, then it even makes more sense for our electricity bills to be adjusted lower than just that 25%. If we are still paying that high (the same price as when crude oil was at 90+ per barrel), then it shows how incapable our authorities are.
I am just looking at what I can understand, I don't pretend to be like you, who sprouts so much information, but yet cannot seem to be able to go deeper and perform more critical analysis.
And by the way, our deep sea harbour is considered a natural resource, thereby helping us to establish ourselves as a shipping hub. Before you go around shouting that we have nothing, I urge you to give your own country some respect.
"You seemed to very selective on the information you want to accept.
Actually, this shows more of your lack of knowledge than mine.
You are assuming you have control over the vendor, a leverage you can use to negotiate with. If the vendor has something that has huge demand (Oil, in this case), he doesn't need to sell it to you he can sell it to others because he has no problems finding another buyer for it."
Again you never read what I told you, and again you expose yourself to your lack of knowledge on negotiations.
You can negotiate a delta where if the price of a product goes up more than the delta, you pay more, and if it goes down less than the delta, you pay less.
It's fairer to both parties. You assume too simply of what I told you and you just jumped on it, saying that I have control over the vendor.
Since when did I talk about control? Negotiations is never about control, but about making an agreement that is acceptable for both parties
Originally posted by soul_rage:First of all, do not mistake me.
I am not discounting the bosses you are talking about, those without a degree. I am just saying that they probably would prefer to have one (and also easily achieve it given their talents) if during those times, they were able to afford one.
Throughout the world, the value of an education is becoming more and more impt. If you watch "The Apprentice", Donald Trump had 2 seasons where its between the Book Smart, and Street Smart, and both times he chose the Book Smart. Not becoz of the degree, but becoz the Book Smart demonstrated the same level of talent as the Street Smart, but at the same time, demonstrated a certain level of foundational basics.
I have been in working circle for about 6 years. It's true that in university, there are many things not taught with respect to outside. But, I have to stress that my knowledge picked up from work may be wide, but they are patchy bits everywhere, without a proper systematic way of stringing all of them together effectively. My accounting knowledge is self-taught due to my work with the Finance dept, and my supply chain knowledge is self-taught due to my work with the Logistics dept, but I guess all these knowledge would have been more solidified if I had a structured education to these domains.
My education in university cannot be applied DIRECTLY to work, but given my foundational technical skills picked up in my education, I am able to adapt and move easily within the IT industry. I have pretty good accounting knowledge, but I can never be a full-fledged accountant, becoz my knowledge is not structured.
I am not denying the value of book smarts. I myself plan to go back to university eventually and pick up a relevant degree to improve my knowledge. I can spend hours on the net everyday and would never match someone that has been actually schooled in the relevant field.
But if Singapore is to be able to develop into a mature democracy, we must be able to accept that better arguments other than "the government is incompetent", "Temasek is squeezing us dry" because we ultimately are making remarks based on the limited information and knowledge that we have access to. And even then, our lack of experience would limit our understanding of it.
We also need to accept that how vulnerable Singapore is and not think problems are going to be solved by just assuming the person in control is incompetent and changing the leaders would miraculously solve it.
Originally posted by angel7030:And also, do not mistaken me, knowledge is good, education is also good, but you must agree with me that knowledge also bring about fears, oppressive, defensive, pride and one way school of thought.
Example, an U grad who graduated in economic may not be able to take risk better than a non graduate, she may take notice of the risks involved and prevented herself from being expose to failure resulting in her lost of pride, competency and the needs to aruge over her action. All these causes the lack of entrepreneurships in graduates who can even be having master or PhD.
"A" boy who is highly educated calculated his risks of falling down and injure himself if he tried to jump across a wide gap drain to seek freedom and glory, another boy "B" who is not highly educated to calculate so much will leap n jump off base on his instincts, even if he failed, get injured, he gained experience to try it another day, whereas boy "A" still remain as where he is,..a servant.
Agree. Knowledge can potentially paralyze a person, but at the same time, lack of knowledge may result in a person taking reckless risks, or did not minimize his risks.
Out of the CEOs you talk about making it, there are many many other wannabes who failed.
Originally posted by Stevenson101:I am not denying the value of book smarts. I myself plan to go back to university eventually and pick up a relevant degree to improve my knowledge. I can spend hours on the net everyday and would never match someone that has been actually schooled in the relevant field.
But if Singapore is to be able to develop into a mature democracy, we must be able to accept that better arguments other than "the government is incompetent", "Temasek is squeezing us dry" because we ultimately are making remarks based on the limited information and knowledge that we have access to. And even then, our lack of experience would limit our understanding of it.
We also need to accept that how vulnerable Singapore is and not think problems are going to be solved by just assuming the person in control is incompetent and changing the leaders would miraculously solve it.
I accept your point on developing a mature democracy. However, I am appalled at the lack of questioning by the public of the govt's actions as well. We are not scrutinizing enough.
Temasek can take our reserves, invest and lose, and yet, we are not clear about their losses and what wrong decisions they have made, even though in actual fact, the reserves is yours and my $$$.
In addition, even though I disagree with the PAP, I am not one that believes in replacing them. This is because we have a lack of credible opposing voices in Singapore. However, it would be good if we could increase the no. of opposition in govt to ensure that there is check and balance on the PAP.
We all know that PAP is pro-business. It would be good if we have an opposition that is pro-citizen, to ensure that the needs of both sides are balanced.
Originally posted by angel7030:
Out 10 bosses in singapore, 7 never attend University
That is because our education system is geared towards production of mandarins who are more thinkers and less doers.
A flawed system where clever ppl, thinks, talks too much and distains hard work.
And by the way, I am not assuming the people making the decision are incapable, it's you who made them look that way. Coming back to your point 4, (I am not arguing with you on points 2 and 3 coz they are true), since LNG prices are influenced by oil prices, and since oil prices have dropped so low, then it even makes more sense for our electricity bills to be adjusted lower than just that 25%. If we are still paying that high (the same price as when crude oil was at 90+ per barrel), then it shows how incapable our authorities are.
If you predict next month you will need 100 units of an item and paid 25000 for it, but when the goods arrived a month later the market price dropped to 23000 you're still expected to pay 25000 for it. Because when the deal was reached, both vendor and supplier has already agreed on 25000 because it was the market price then.
I'm merely arguing that the the LNG that is fueling our electricity now was already agreed at 90+. If the next few months electricity bills do not continue to drop, then yes you and maz are right and i would agree that i'm wrong.
I simply found it disturbing that people are expecting LNG to be immediately pegged to $50 without understanding that the LNG we're using now was agreed upon when the oil prices was 90+.
Originally posted by Stevenson101:
If you predict next month you will need 100 units of an item and paid 25000 for it, but when the goods arrived a month later the market price dropped to 23000 you're still expected to pay 25000 for it. Because when the deal was reached, both vendor and supplier has already agreed on 25000 because it was the market price then.
I'm merely arguing that the the LNG that is fueling our electricity now was already agreed at 90+. If the next few months electricity bills do not continue to drop, then yes you and maz are right and i would agree that i'm wrong.
I simply found it disturbing that people are expecting LNG to be immediately pegged to $50 without understanding that the LNG we're using now was agreed upon when the oil prices was 90+.
I never did say that LNG will be pegged to $50 immediately (Oil is now < $40).
I just said that given all the 'mandarins' and top management 'talents' we have, since fuel prices are so volatile, the talented people would be thinking of how to minimize the fluctuation risks, rather than just telling us, no choice, nothing they can do. Then why do we need so many highly paid people up there for?
You and I can take over their positions already.
Also, as I mentioned before, you can always negotiate a delta, such that if the up-to-date price of 100 units of an item is +/- 10% of the agreed price, you still pay the same amount, but if it has moved beyond the 10% delta, then both sides can agree on a re-aligned price.
Such agreements are real, and companies in volatile industries do this
Originally posted by soul_rage
I accept your point on developing a mature democracy. However, I am appalled at the lack of questioning by the public of the govt's actions as well. We are not scrutinizing enough.Temasek can take our reserves, invest and lose, and yet, we are not clear about their losses and what wrong decisions they have made, even though in actual fact, the reserves is yours and my $$$.
In addition, even though I disagree with the PAP, I am not one that believes in replacing them. This is because we have a lack of credible opposing voices in Singapore. However, it would be good if we could increase the no. of opposition in govt to ensure that there is check and balance on the PAP.
Meh i question the government decisions often enough. I'm not foolish enough to believe the government is some great bastion of virtue, but nor am i inclined to believe that it's a cesspool of sin.
But if i simply join in to rant about the government then i would never know whether your reasoning would hold water, or anyone else's. The objective of joining in the forum is to learn more about other perspectives, even those i do not agree with.
I rather enjoy this thread really.
If i simply agree with you, i wouldn't know so much about deltas and stuff yes?
Originally posted by Stevenson101:Meh i question the government decisions often enough. I'm not foolish enough to believe the government is some great bastion of virtue, but nor am i inclined to believe that it's a cesspool of sin.
But if i simply join in to rant about the government then i would never know whether your reasoning would hold water, or anyone else's. The objective of joining in the forum is to learn more about other perspectives, even those i do not agree with.
I rather enjoy this thread really.
If i simply agree with you, i wouldn't know so much about deltas and stuff yes?
Agree. We agree to disagree. No offence intended.
And good luck with your further education. Being inquisitive and picking up information is a really good start. I hope you will achieve your aim in the near future.