Opposition - Where To?: A public forum 7 Feb 09, Saturday
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Originally posted by gasband:
why u not attending?
Because I intend to stay neutral and not be directly involved in party politics.
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...and criticize the opposition figures if they behave dishonorably.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
He's being remanded in IMH presently.Originally posted by Shotgun:Dammit, Angel nv remind him to take medication again...
Poor things, you two reduced to licking angel7030 asshole?
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Poor things, you two reduced to licking angel7030 asshole?
Just feeling that CSJ needs to use his brains not his arse to do the thinking and talking.Dr CSJ just complains about issues and not figure out solutions to solve the problem. As for the PAP, it just assumes everything's fine and business as usual. So who the fark can the people trust to fix the problems? -
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Because I intend to stay neutral and not be directly involved in party politics.
Or because you are hiding from the ISD? When I read your postings, sedition and coups are your main topics. Practical solutions are not at all present for any problems and you just want to support Dr CSJ just because he can kao-peh the loudest without any solution to any problem.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Just feeling that CSJ needs to use his brains not his arse to do the thinking and talking.Dr CSJ just complains about issues and not figure out solutions to solve the problem. As for the PAP, it just assumes everything's fine and business as usual. So who the fark can the people trust to fix the problems?You have tunnel vision. You cannot see that you need to get the basics right, where the views and opinions of all Singaporeans are considered and implemented as far as possible.
You cannot have that, with dishonorable despots practicing cronyism, nepotism and persecuting dissidents and opposition.
Dr Chee is opening up society by standing up to the dishonorable despots. He is doing the important part, the part that is more important than "figure out solutions to solve the problem".
You have a fallacy. You think that the "solution" is with someone, some-party, some genius. I have news for you. The "solution" is with the people acting with freedom to do their thing without dishonorable despots (or Dr Chee) interfering and taking away resources that are needed to build up the country through their HDebtBoard, ERP, COE and what not.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Or because you are hiding from the ISD? When I read your postings, sedition and coups are your main topics. Practical solutions are not at all present for any problems and you just want to support Dr CSJ just because he can kao-peh the loudest without any solution to any problem.
You are a delusional given to wild imaginings
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
You have tunnel vision. You cannot see that you need to get the basics right, where the views and opinions of all Singaporeans are considered and implemented as far as possible.
You cannot have that, with dishonorable despots practicing cronyism, nepotism and persecuting dissidents and opposition.
Dr Chee is opening up society by standing up to the dishonorable despots. He is doing the important part, the part that is more important than "figure out solutions to solve the problem".
You have a fallacy. You think that the "solution" is with someone, some-party, some genius. I have news for you. The "solution" is with the people acting with freedom to do their thing without dishonorable despots (or Dr Chee) interfering and taking away resources that are needed to build up the country through their HDebtBoard, ERP, COE and what not.
Opening up the society or adding oil to the flames? Talking nonsense and not providing a viable alternative is just pure anarchy without proper governance. Any logic? What's the use of having a government who can only talk or complain without ability to provide any solution? If they say they need time but show no concrete plans of action to take, would the people trust them?
A solution is a plan or action intending to resolve problems in a country. If there is a global recession, then what actions can the government do to bring the whole country through with minimal loses? Dr CSJ just say the present government is incapable and Singaporeans should vote him into power as he can kao-peh the loudest against despotism and cronism. Then when Singaporeans are suffering, CSJ got no concrete plans to alleviate the suffering.
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
You are a delusional given to wild imaginings
Are you sure? I was just poking fun at you for your futile and naive support of the worst politician in Singapore history. If you were to give support to David Marshall, it would sound more logical. Unfortunately, David Marshall is reposing in peace.
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
How can I be his dog when I have not even met him (as in introduced to him)? I am for his cause and like I said, you have tunnel vision, you cannot see the truth, and what needs to be done first. What Dr Chee is trying to do, his cause, is what needs to be done first.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Just feeling that CSJ needs to use his brains not his arse to do the thinking and talking.Dr CSJ just complains about issues and not figure out solutions to solve the problem. As for the PAP, it just assumes everything's fine and business as usual. So who the fark can the people trust to fix the problems?Since it is only a feeling that you have towards CSJ, there is still hope for you to make a U-turn to retract your position about him.
Before you go about shooting your mouth, have you done any research about the person ?
Have you read any of his books ?
Did you read the books about what he sees as the weakness in Singapore's education system, or over reliance on MNC that are themselves senstive to costs and will simply move off as soon as another low cost center offer themselves, or the vast greed in sucking away private funds from Singpaoreans to enrich the Government ?
That was written in 1992, and he kept hammering these out publicly, as the PAP continue to resist and ignore his views.
Yet, when 2002 came along - ten years after his book was written - the education policy changed towards the same direction that was called for in his book in 1992.
Unfortunately, the 1987, 1997, 2002 and 2007 economic depressing cycles have still not hit home into the PAP's planners mind to depend less on MNCs, and to relax the various government financial mechanisms that take away private wealth to continue enriching the Government Treasury.
Where were you since 1992, when CJS's book was first published ? o
Were you too young or too cynical about everything - whether CSJ or LKY - to do anything yourself to find a way forward, but instead prefer to indulge yourself to judge CSJ, LKY and everyone else except yourself ?
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Since it is only a feeling that you have towards CSJ, there is still hope for you to make a U-turn to retract your position about him.
Before you go about shooting your mouth, have you done any research about the person ?
Have you read any of his books ?
Did you read the books about what he sees as the weakness in Singapore's education system, or over reliance on MNC that are themselves senstive to costs and will simply move off as soon as another low cost center offer themselves, or the vast greed in sucking away private funds from Singpaoreans to enrich the Government ?
That was written in 1992, and he kept hammering these out publicly, as the PAP continue to resist and ignore his views.
Yet, when 2002 came along - ten years after his book was written - the education policy changed towards the same direction that was called for in his book in 1992.
Unfortunately, the 1987, 1997, 2002 and 2007 economic depressing cycles have still not hit home into the PAP's planners mind to depend less on MNCs, and to relax the various government financial mechanisms that take away private wealth to continue enriching the Government Treasury.
Where were you since 1992, when CJS's book was first published ? o
Were you too young or too cynical about everything - whether CSJ or LKY - to do anything yourself to find a way forward, but instead prefer to indulge yourself to judge CSJ, LKY and everyone else except yourself ?
A bit of too little too late, now the industries are changing. Technically MNCs were the best economic path for Singapore to grow as Singapore doesn't have any other resource except its people. In fact, to regain economic momentum, Singapore has to take even more drastic action than described by Dr Chee. But in the end, Dr Chee doesn't have any concrete idea which direction to go in further nation building.
True, the present government isn't the best but at least, it'll suffice till a good enough opposition matures.
Anyway, I was doing my duty for my nation back in 92.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
A bit of too little too late, now the industries are changing. Technically MNCs were the best economic path for Singapore to grow as Singapore doesn't have any other resource except its people. In fact, to regain economic momentum, Singapore has to take even more drastic action than described by Dr Chee. But in the end, Dr Chee doesn't have any concrete idea which direction to go in further nation building.
True, the present government isn't the best but at least, it'll suffice till a good enough opposition matures.
Anyway, I was doing my duty for my nation back in 92.
Unfortunately, Singapore has been stuck in this cycle of bust and boom, and continuously dependent on the MNCs to provide employment opportunities for the only resource that Singapore has - its People.
Since independence in 1965, this Singapore Government has gone through three changes in PM - and all three (including the present) remained dependent on the MNCs for employment.
Have we change in the last 40 odd years ?
The people's resources and wealth remained continuously sucked by a continuously greedy government desparately scheming to fill up the big holes caused by their unaccountable losses of our Reserves.
With a large portion of the people's resources and personal wealth taken through a plethora of financial schemes that range from the insignificant to the mundane - but covering all aspects of our Life that is dependent on the multiple level of services provided by GLCs and government linked agencies - can there be any private fund left for Singaporeans to be entrepreneurial ?
Singaporeans instead have been groomed to be a captive cash cow, laboring as an economic digit in an economic ponzi scheme developed by the Ruling Party that see the Government get geometrically richer, and Singaporeans progressively stuck in a flimsy and vulnerably sensitive economic well being.
Without giving yourself and the Alternative Political Parties a chance - how do you know that the present Government is the best ?
If the present Government know that they are the best for Singaporeans, why would they so jealously guard their position, and be paranoid about the challenges put forward by one Party led by one that they continuously portray as a mad man ?
Is it not a fact that they find CSJ and the SDP a potential threat if given the space to engage with the heartlanders and to educate Singaporeans about their fundamental rights to a different and far better economic life ?
They know that CSJ is good, and given the unfettered resources of better talents and to ground support in the Heartlands, CSJ and the SDP will be a credible and formidable force - as they are willing to challenge the PAP on various issues, compared to the WP and SDA.
From the decades of the same self-serving propaganda, it will not be surprising if you will pull out the worn argument that you will be prepared to sacrifice your fundamental rights and continue with the present political stability to allow this Government to plod ahead with their failed policies that only serve their agenda; while enslaving Singaporeans to the present status quo.
Alternative Parties can never be seen to mature until the Government is prepared to allow engagement to take effect.
After 40 odd years since 1965 - a human would have matured to an adult.
Why are the Alternative Parties continuously been taken to be immature ?
Will you not consider yourself to be at 40 ?
Or are you below 40 years of age, and immature with your outlook that depend so much on the propaganda pumped out by the Government ?
Have you engage the Alternative Parties by attending their forums ?
Are you prepared to engage actively in Politics for your own sake by attending these forums and allow yourself the opportunity to weigh the alternative views ?
While you may not necessarliy agree on every issue that maybe discussed at these forums, it will at least provide you some measure of alternative views from the standard propaganda that is pumped out by the controlled medias.
Can Singapore continue to develop when ideas for progress is dependent on a political party that entice "talents" with large rewards into Government, and with such assessment of "new talent" based on the judgement of a few similarly money driven talents ?
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Unfortunately, Singapore has been stuck in this cycle of bust and boom, and continuously dependent on the MNCs to provide employment opportunities for the only resource that Singapore has - its People.
Since independence in 1965, this Singapore Government has gone through three changes in PM - and all three (including the present) remained dependent on the MNCs for employment.
Have we change in the last 40 odd years ?
The people's resources and wealth remained continuously sucked by a continuously greedy government desparately scheming to fill up the big holes caused by their unaccountable losses of our Reserves.
With a large portion of the people's resources and personal wealth taken through a plethora of financial schemes that range from the insignificant to the mundane - but covering all aspects of our Life that is dependent on the multiple level of services provided by GLCs and government linked agencies - can there be any private fund left for Singaporeans to be entrepreneurial ?
Singaporeans instead have been groomed to be a captive cash cow, laboring as an economic digit in an economic ponzi scheme developed by the Ruling Party that see the Government get geometrically richer, and Singaporeans progressively stuck in a flimsy and vulnerably sensitive economic well being.
Without giving yourself and the Alternative Political Parties a chance - how do you know that the present Government is the best ?
If the present Government know that they are the best for Singaporeans, why would they so jealously guard their position, and be paranoid about the challenges put forward by one Party led by one that they continuously portray as a mad man ?
Is it not a fact that they find CSJ and the SDP a potential threat if given the space to engage with the heartlanders and to educate Singaporeans about their fundamental rights to a different and far better economic life ?
They know that CSJ is good, and given the unfettered resources of better talents and to ground support in the Heartlands, CSJ and the SDP will be a credible and formidable force - as they are willing to challenge the PAP on various issues, compared to the WP and SDA.
From the decades of the same self-serving propaganda, it will not be surprising if you will pull out the worn argument that you will be prepared to sacrifice your fundamental rights and continue with the present political stability to allow this Government to plod ahead with their failed policies that only serve their agenda; while enslaving Singaporeans to the present status quo.
Alternative Parties can never be seen to mature until the Government is prepared to allow engagement to take effect.
After 40 odd years since 1965 - a human would have matured to an adult.
Why are the Alternative Parties continuously been taken to be immature ?
Will you not consider yourself to be at 40 ?
Or are you below 40 years of age, and immature with your outlook that depend so much on the propaganda pumped out by the Government ?
Have you engage the Alternative Parties by attending their forums ?
Are you prepared to engage actively in Politics for your own sake by attending these forums and allow yourself the opportunity to weigh the alternative views ?
While you may not necessarliy agree on every issue that maybe discussed at these forums, it will at least provide you some measure of alternative views from the standard propaganda that is pumped out by the controlled medias.
Can Singapore continue to develop when ideas for progress is dependent on a political party that entice "talents" with large rewards into Government, and with such assessment of "new talent" based on the judgement of a few similarly money driven talents ?
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Unfortunately, Singapore has been stuck in this cycle of bust and boom, and continuously dependent on the MNCs to provide employment opportunities for the only resource that Singapore has - its People.
Since independence in 1965, this Singapore Government has gone through three changes in PM - and all three (including the present) remained dependent on the MNCs for employment.
Have we change in the last 40 odd years ?
The people's resources and wealth remained continuously sucked by a continuously greedy government desparately scheming to fill up the big holes caused by their unaccountable losses of our Reserves.
With a large portion of the people's resources and personal wealth taken through a plethora of financial schemes that range from the insignificant to the mundane - but covering all aspects of our Life that is dependent on the multiple level of services provided by GLCs and government linked agencies - can there be any private fund left for Singaporeans to be entrepreneurial ?
Singaporeans instead have been groomed to be a captive cash cow, laboring as an economic digit in an economic ponzi scheme developed by the Ruling Party that see the Government get geometrically richer, and Singaporeans progressively stuck in a flimsy and vulnerably sensitive economic well being.
Without giving yourself and the Alternative Political Parties a chance - how do you know that the present Government is the best ?
If the present Government know that they are the best for Singaporeans, why would they so jealously guard their position, and be paranoid about the challenges put forward by one Party led by one that they continuously portray as a mad man ?
Is it not a fact that they find CSJ and the SDP a potential threat if given the space to engage with the heartlanders and to educate Singaporeans about their fundamental rights to a different and far better economic life ?
They know that CSJ is good, and given the unfettered resources of better talents and to ground support in the Heartlands, CSJ and the SDP will be a credible and formidable force - as they are willing to challenge the PAP on various issues, compared to the WP and SDA.
From the decades of the same self-serving propaganda, it will not be surprising if you will pull out the worn argument that you will be prepared to sacrifice your fundamental rights and continue with the present political stability to allow this Government to plod ahead with their failed policies that only serve their agenda; while enslaving Singaporeans to the present status quo.
Alternative Parties can never be seen to mature until the Government is prepared to allow engagement to take effect.
After 40 odd years since 1965 - a human would have matured to an adult.
Why are the Alternative Parties continuously been taken to be immature ?
Will you not consider yourself to be at 40 ?
Or are you below 40 years of age, and immature with your outlook that depend so much on the propaganda pumped out by the Government ?
Have you engage the Alternative Parties by attending their forums ?
Are you prepared to engage actively in Politics for your own sake by attending these forums and allow yourself the opportunity to weigh the alternative views ?
While you may not necessarliy agree on every issue that maybe discussed at these forums, it will at least provide you some measure of alternative views from the standard propaganda that is pumped out by the controlled medias.
Can Singapore continue to develop when ideas for progress is dependent on a political party that entice "talents" with large rewards into Government, and with such assessment of "new talent" based on the judgement of a few similarly money driven talents ?
Oei, four-eyed atobe, read farking carefully, when did I say that the present government is the best? Are you immature and foolish as to depend solely on a opposition party viewpoint to argue without basis of fact and logic? I stated that the present opposition parties are still immature enough to lead the government. I have a strange feeling that the WP might pull something off in about 2 decades while the SDP still need about a century or two to come up with something logical and feasible. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
Unfortunately, Singapore has been stuck in this cycle of bust and boom, and continuously dependent on the MNCs to provide employment opportunities for the only resource that Singapore has - its People.
Since independence in 1965, this Singapore Government has gone through three changes in PM - and all three (including the present) remained dependent on the MNCs for employment.
Have we change in the last 40 odd years ?
The people's resources and wealth remained continuously sucked by a continuously greedy government desparately scheming to fill up the big holes caused by their unaccountable losses of our Reserves.
With a large portion of the people's resources and personal wealth taken through a plethora of financial schemes that range from the insignificant to the mundane - but covering all aspects of our Life that is dependent on the multiple level of services provided by GLCs and government linked agencies - can there be any private fund left for Singaporeans to be entrepreneurial ?
Singaporeans instead have been groomed to be a captive cash cow, laboring as an economic digit in an economic ponzi scheme developed by the Ruling Party that see the Government get geometrically richer, and Singaporeans progressively stuck in a flimsy and vulnerably sensitive economic well being.
Without giving yourself and the Alternative Political Parties a chance - how do you know that the present Government is the best ?
If the present Government know that they are the best for Singaporeans, why would they so jealously guard their position, and be paranoid about the challenges put forward by one Party led by one that they continuously portray as a mad man ?
Is it not a fact that they find CSJ and the SDP a potential threat if given the space to engage with the heartlanders and to educate Singaporeans about their fundamental rights to a different and far better economic life ?
They know that CSJ is good, and given the unfettered resources of better talents and to ground support in the Heartlands, CSJ and the SDP will be a credible and formidable force - as they are willing to challenge the PAP on various issues, compared to the WP and SDA.
From the decades of the same self-serving propaganda, it will not be surprising if you will pull out the worn argument that you will be prepared to sacrifice your fundamental rights and continue with the present political stability to allow this Government to plod ahead with their failed policies that only serve their agenda; while enslaving Singaporeans to the present status quo.
Alternative Parties can never be seen to mature until the Government is prepared to allow engagement to take effect.
After 40 odd years since 1965 - a human would have matured to an adult.
Why are the Alternative Parties continuously been taken to be immature ?
Will you not consider yourself to be at 40 ?
Or are you below 40 years of age, and immature with your outlook that depend so much on the propaganda pumped out by the Government ?
Have you engage the Alternative Parties by attending their forums ?
Are you prepared to engage actively in Politics for your own sake by attending these forums and allow yourself the opportunity to weigh the alternative views ?
While you may not necessarliy agree on every issue that maybe discussed at these forums, it will at least provide you some measure of alternative views from the standard propaganda that is pumped out by the controlled medias.
Can Singapore continue to develop when ideas for progress is dependent on a political party that entice "talents" with large rewards into Government, and with such assessment of "new talent" based on the judgement of a few similarly money driven talents ?
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Oei, four-eyed atobe, read farking carefully, when did I say that the present government is the best? Are you immature and foolish as to depend solely on a opposition party viewpoint to argue without basis of fact and logic? I stated that the present opposition parties are still immature enough to lead the government. I have a strange feeling that the WP might pull something off in about 2 decades while the SDP still need about a century or two to come up with something logical and feasible.
hahahaha! 4 eyes atobe, very funny... -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Oei, four-eyed atobe, read farking carefully, when did I say that the present government is the best? Are you immature and foolish as to depend solely on a opposition party viewpoint to argue without basis of fact and logic? I stated that the present opposition parties are still immature enough to lead the government. I have a strange feeling that the WP might pull something off in about 2 decades while the SDP still need about a century or two to come up with something logical and feasible.
You did say that the present government isn't the best - is this not as good as confirming your line of thinking that there is no other alternative to the present government ?If there is no other alternative, what is the next best to what is not the best ?
Is it not true that the present government is the best for you under the present circumstances ?
Why be hypocritical or bashful in stating what is on your mind in your support for the PAP Government ?
Your pathetic response clearly expose your immaturity, and it is the immaturity of Singaporeans like yourself that will cause the PAP to continue monopolising the political events in Singapore, and dictating their self-serving policies to be imposed on Singaporeans.
Is it a result of immature politicians in the Alternative Parties, or the result of immature Singaporeans unable to release themselves from the fetters and apron strings of the PAP government ?
After 40 over years of PAP domination, spoon feeding, and bribes - LKY has fulfilled his goal of filling the stomachs and dull the minds of the people.
The dull minds of immature people like you have fail to realise that while LKY and the PAP has filled Singaporeans' stomachs, it has been done at a very high price that has resulted in the government taking more from Singaporeans then what they have given in return.
You will probably need the "four eyes" to help you with your political myopia.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
You did say that the present government isn't the best - is this not as good as confirming your line of thinking that there is no other alternative to the present government ?If there is no other alternative, what is the next best to what is not the best ?
Is it not true that the present government is the best for you under the present circumstances ?
Why be hypocritical or bashful in stating what is on your mind in your support for the PAP Government ?
Your pathetic response clearly expose your immaturity, and it is the immaturity of Singaporeans like yourself that will cause the PAP to continue monopolising the political events in Singapore, and dictating their self-serving policies to be imposed on Singaporeans.
Is it a result of immature politicians in the Alternative Parties, or the result of immature Singaporeans unable to release themselves from the fetters and apron strings of the PAP government ?
After 40 over years of PAP domination, spoon feeding, and bribes - LKY has fulfilled his goal of filling the stomachs and dull the minds of the people.
The dull minds of immature people like you have fail to realise that while LKY and the PAP has filled Singaporeans' stomachs, it has been done at a very high price that has resulted in the government taking more from Singaporeans then what they have given in return.
You will probably need the "four eyes" to help you with your political myopia.
So are you proposing anarchy? If not, please shut the fark up. I know you have a dull mind due to LKY and CSJ spoonfeeding you information while there are plenty others out there who know that now is not the time for a political change. Presently, I am confirming that there is no better alternative to the present government. Only by the next GE, can I have an accurate understanding of the standing of all political parties in the eyes of the people and whether which party will have the mandate of the people to rule.
Meanwhile, if your main plan is to start anarchy in Singapore, you just increased the people's patriotism to this country of SIngapore and not to the present government of Singapore. Singapore is under the rule of law and cannot and must not be destabilised by your propaganda. Any political change in Singapore must be done under the rule of law and not via a coup or putsch.
The present alternative political parties are not ready to take charge due to lack of foresight and strong leadership. Technically, the WP is shaping up better than the SDP for the next GE.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
So are you proposing anarchy? If not, please shut the fark up. I know you have a dull mind due to LKY and CSJ spoonfeeding you information while there are plenty others out there who know that now is not the time for a political change. Presently, I am confirming that there is no better alternative to the present government. Only by the next GE, can I have an accurate understanding of the standing of all political parties in the eyes of the people and whether which party will have the mandate of the people to rule.
Meanwhile, if your main plan is to start anarchy in Singapore, you just increased the people's patriotism to this country of SIngapore and not to the present government of Singapore. Singapore is under the rule of law and cannot and must not be destabilised by your propaganda. Any political change in Singapore must be done under the rule of law and not via a coup or putsch.
The present alternative political parties are not ready to take charge due to lack of foresight and strong leadership. Technically, the WP is shaping up better than the SDP for the next GE.
The continued reply laced with frustration clearly show your immature ability in dealing with your emotions when pressured.
Can we place any values on your judgement ?
Can we count on you to speak for Singaporean's patriotism ?
The pathetic part of your political thoughts run through the extremes in immature imagination that stretch the extremes on others, while you ignore the danger that LKY and the PAP pose to Singapore.
Did anyone propose anarchy, or a coup, or a putsch ?
If at all, it is LKY and his PAP that cannot accept their future by leaving it to the rule of law, and when faced with a legitimate electoral win by any other political party - he has hinted that the SAF will need to step in to restore sanity.
Sanity by whose measure ?
Is he insane to suggest this possibility, or is he only too sane to scheme and to start to manipulate a scenario to allow him to retain political power for himself, his family and his Party ?
Is the present political party not ready to take charge due to your imagined lack of foresight and strong leadership; or is your pathetic lack of confidence due to your immaturity and inexperience to even observe that LHL has no experience, weak leadership, and lack of foresight to continue with the disastrous policies of his father ?
Clearly his inexperience has been exposed with his attempts to "fix" the other political parties, and his inability to provide leadership in making his own decision but to depend on LKY to take the lead in dealing with the challenges posed by the Trade Unions, the Judiciary, the Ministers, and the Alternative Political Parties ?
Does any of the present "talents" in Cabinet any experience or foresight in anticipating the present recessions ?
Did they display any foresight or experience, or provide leadership in handling the excesses of Temasek and GIC management of Singapore's Reserves ?
Clearly it is not the Alternative Political that lack the foresight and experience, or not having the leadership to takeover the reigns of Government, but it is the inexperience and immaturity of Singaporeans like yourself that prevent Singapore's political development.
Clearly, Singapore can never face up to the challenges from Hongkong, Shanghai and even from Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, and soon Hochiminh City.
Can you cope with challenges instead of hiding behind worn out ideas and fears ?
Technically the WP is shaping up better than the SDP to prepare for the next election ?
How do you define the technicalities in WP preparation ?
Do you think that the WP can out manouvre the PAP manipulative strategies that dilute the total combined strengths of the Alternative Parties ?
Do you think that the Alternative Parties will be in any position to win in any significant ways in the next election, when the rules are again dictated and "fixed" in favor of the PAP ?
You should try harder to fix your dream for the WP.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
The continued reply laced with frustration clearly show your immature ability in dealing with your emotions when pressured.
Can we place any values on your judgement ?
Can we count on you to speak for Singaporean's patriotism ?
The pathetic part of your political thoughts run through the extremes in immature imagination that stretch the extremes on others, while you ignore the danger that LKY and the PAP pose to Singapore.
Did anyone propose anarchy, or a coup, or a putsch ?
If at all, it is LKY and his PAP that cannot accept their future by leaving it to the rule of law, and when faced with a legitimate electoral win by any other political party - he has hinted that the SAF will need to step in to restore sanity.
Sanity by whose measure ?
Is he insane to suggest this possibility, or is he only too sane to scheme and to start to manipulate a scenario to allow him to retain political power for himself, his family and his Party ?
Is the present political party not ready to take charge due to your imagined lack of foresight and strong leadership; or is your pathetic lack of confidence due to your immaturity and inexperience to even observe that LHL has no experience, weak leadership, and lack of foresight to continue with the disastrous policies of his father ?
Clearly his inexperience has been exposed with his attempts to "fix" the other political parties, and his inability to provide leadership in making his own decision but to depend on LKY to take the lead in dealing with the challenges posed by the Trade Unions, the Judiciary, the Ministers, and the Alternative Political Parties ?
Does any of the present "talents" in Cabinet any experience or foresight in anticipating the present recessions ?
Did they display any foresight or experience, or provide leadership in handling the excesses of Temasek and GIC management of Singapore's Reserves ?
Clearly it is not the Alternative Political that lack the foresight and experience, or not having the leadership to takeover the reigns of Government, but it is the inexperience and immaturity of Singaporeans like yourself that prevent Singapore's political development.
Clearly, Singapore can never face up to the challenges from Hongkong, Shanghai and even from Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, and soon Hochiminh City.
Can you cope with challenges instead of hiding behind worn out ideas and fears ?
Technically the WP is shaping up better than the SDP to prepare for the next election ?
How do you define the technicalities in WP preparation ?
Do you think that the WP can out manouvre the PAP manipulative strategies that dilute the total combined strengths of the Alternative Parties ?
Do you think that the Alternative Parties will be in any position to win in any significant ways in the next election, when the rules are again dictated and "fixed" in favor of the PAP ?
You should try harder to fix your dream for the WP.
How do you propose to have a political change of power now without an election? The only way is for a coup to happen. That would lead to anarchy in Singapore. Any party that wants to overcome the PAP lead would have to play by the book so as not to inspire a counter-coup from the PAP supporters. Electory boundaries must be clearly defined at least 3 years ahead of the polls so campaigning can be properly done. The present government can try to cheat by changing but the alternative parties must play by the book in order that there be no backlash from supporters from any side. SAF would be forced to step in if there is any tomfoolery in from the alternatives.It is clear that presently the alternative parties are not ready to take over the reins of government. First, the alternative parties do not express clear alternative policies to PAP economic policies. Second, there are no countries that want to support a alternative takeover. Such countries must be courted and assured that any alternative takeover would not affect inter-country relations. So far, only Dr CSJ tries to portray himself as a campaigner of legal and human rights to the democratic countries but it is obvious that Dr CSJ also tries to subvert the rule of law in Singapore. Dr CSJ tried to go against the Penal Code which he viewed as unjust. He tried to challenge the rule of law by staging illegal protests instead of asking for a convocation of the Legal Council to modify or strike off the law(the correct procedure) . By doing so, Dr CSJ views himself above the rule of law and some kind of lone ranger.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
How do you propose to have a political change of power now without an election? The only way is for a coup to happen. That would lead to anarchy in Singapore. Any party that wants to overcome the PAP lead would have to play by the book so as not to inspire a counter-coup from the PAP supporters. Electory boundaries must be clearly defined at least 3 years ahead of the polls so campaigning can be properly done. The present government can try to cheat by changing but the alternative parties must play by the book in order that there be no backlash from supporters from any side. SAF would be forced to step in if there is any tomfoolery in from the alternatives.It is clear that presently the alternative parties are not ready to take over the reins of government. First, the alternative parties do not express clear alternative policies to PAP economic policies. Second, there are no countries that want to support a alternative takeover. Such countries must be courted and assured that any alternative takeover would not affect inter-country relations. So far, only Dr CSJ tries to portray himself as a campaigner of legal and human rights to the democratic countries but it is obvious that Dr CSJ also tries to subvert the rule of law in Singapore. Dr CSJ tried to go against the Penal Code which he viewed as unjust. He tried to challenge the rule of law by staging illegal protests instead of asking for a convocation of the Legal Council to modify or strike off the law(the correct procedure) . By doing so, Dr CSJ views himself above the rule of law and some kind of lone ranger.
In the first place, was there any suggestion of forcing political change with a coup ?How did you so ingeniously deviate from this thread about attending a political forum organised by the Alternative Parties ?
How immaturely pathetic you have shown your political ideas by relying on the worn out "scare tactic" in desuading Singaporeans from political activism - with talk of anarchy ?
Did any part of my response suggest political change without an election ?
Clearly you must be too naive with your devoted beliefs that the PAP is a law abiding political party to believe that they will follow the rules that they clearly defined for others, but will skirt around the perimeters of the definition to take advantage of their self-serving rules, and have the Judiciary System to redefine the rules when clear infringements have been observed.
Where did you get the idea that the electoral boundaries needs to be clearly defined three years before an election ?
If this is so, the next election is supposed to be in 2011, have you heard or seen any government gazette since 2008 - we are already into the last day of January 2009 ?
The opposition parties have always been playing by the book during an election - has the PAP been doing so before, during and after elections ?
Can alternative parties win in any election, when the self-serving "rules of the game" are designed to benefit the incumbent ( - before, during and after elections), while the same rules are cleverly designed to be stacked up against the alternative parties ?
Given the present set-up of the Singapore political scene that has been cunningly created by LKY over the last 40 odd years, Singaporeans have been quietly neutered by the disenfranchising of political rights, cowed into silence by the ruthless attacks against civil society that show concern to the POLITICAL LIFE of Singaporeans, and with fear driven home by deliberate cunning abuse of the Internal Security Act against any Singaporean who step up for the alternative parties and being accused to be a Communist, or racial chauvinist, or extremist.
Can the alternative parties succeed in the present political scenario which resemble a monolithic Communist ONE-Party State ?
The present alternative parties have the same set of talents as those in the PAP, who were recruited WITHOUT any experience and had become Ministers.
Looking back to 1957, LKY was even younger - at 30 odd years - when he was sworn in to be a Prime Minister, he had no experience in the workings of government, nor the massive support of Singaporeans then; and had largely depended on the support of political activists such as Lim Chin Siong and Company whom he had to work with but later betrayed.
Can LKY be more mature at the age of 30 odd years compared with the present leadership teams in the alternative political parties today in the 21st Century - all of them already in their 40s ?
SDP had even moved faster to take advantage of modern technologies to reach out to Singaporeans and circumvent the self-serving rules of the PAP Government that block the media from giving any publicity to the Alternative Parties.
Amongst all the alternative political parties, it seems that only the SDP is actively looking forward and preparing themselves and Singaporeans to the day when LKY will pass on - when even the PAP itself will probably disintegrate.
Is that not mature foresight ?
What is seen as political suicide at present, and seemingly disobedient to the unjust rule of law - is political lessons for Singaporeans to know what is rightfully ours that have been unjustly taken away from us by the self-serving legislations passed illegally without any consultation with Singaporeans.
The Penal Code has been legislated by the PAP Government to lock-down this island for their convenience, and have largely made nonsense of the Singapore Constitution that Singaporeans have been sworn to protect, but the PAP Government have very conveniently exploited at various occassions to follow or to ignore - and end up bastardising the Singapore Constitution into contradicting nonsensical legislations.
Is CSJ subverting the Rule of Law, or has the LKY and the PAP controlled Parliament subverted the Singapore Constitution - and in the process the Rule of Law as any civilised First World Society understand it to be ?
Again, you have unthinkingly and unashamedly plagiarise the self-serving bias opinions that have been propagated by LKY and his obedient PAP members.
CSJ active opposition of the Penal Code is to show Singaporeans that the law when distorted to benefit only the PAP - and not the Citizens - cannot be a good law.
Even the present Chief Justice Chan Sek Kiong comments had suggested that present legislations have tied the judges to the point that they no longer dispenses justice with the aim of rehabilitation, but become mere mechanism to enforce justice according to legislations passed by Parliament.
Your naive views in believing that CSJ can request for "convocation of the Legal Council to modify or strike off the law(the correct procedure)" is amusing.
Which Legal Council are you referring to in Singapore ?
Does one exist ?
If one does exist, do you believe that it is independent to act against all the legislations that have been crafted so cunningly by LKY - with perhaps the support of a superior legal mind that support him throughout his life ?
It is time that you awaken your mind from deep slumber and stop harping on the worn out idea of anarchy at the slightest call for civil disobedience.
Did Hongkong fall into chaos and anarchy in their protest of Beijing's attempts at breeching their own "ONE Country - Two Systems" concept, when Beijing tried to interfere in Hongkong's local politics ?
Did USA fall into anarchy when - 40 years ago - Dr Martin Luther King called for the masses to march against the injustice of segregation ?
If not for the daring vision and actions made 40 years ago by Dr Martin Luther King - will Barack Obama succeed in his attempts to be accepted by the multitude of different ethnic groups in the USA to become the 44th President ?
It is those that fear the clear Human Conscience of Right and Wrong that will falsely propagate the fear of anarchy, of instability, of chaos.
Can Singaporeans ever overcome the fear of the unknown, be enterprising and strike out for a new and better future for ourselves, or are we to be forever bound by the fear of the unknown outcome and settle for half-measures that continue to bind ourselves from opportunities ?
It takes maturity to face the unknown - as LKY did in his 30s.
It takes maturity to accept responsibility - as LKY did in his 30s.
It takes maturity to accept one's actions - as CSJ did in his 40s.
It takes maturity to accept one's defined role to act for Singaporeans - as the various members of the Alternative Political Parties have committed themselves to, by offering themselves publicly as candidates.
It takes maturity for Singaporeans to ignore the blatant propaganda that thrives on fear, ignorance, and stupidity.
Wise up, if you cannot wake up from your slumber.
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Gentle reminder.... there are lots of delusionals that take what is in their heads as reality...
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Atobe. You da man.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
In the first place, was there any suggestion of forcing political change with a coup ?How did you so ingeniously deviate from this thread about attending a political forum organised by the Alternative Parties ?
How immaturely pathetic you have shown your political ideas by relying on the worn out "scare tactic" in desuading Singaporeans from political activism - with talk of anarchy ?
Did any part of my response suggest political change without an election ?
Clearly you must be too naive with your devoted beliefs that the PAP is a law abiding political party to believe that they will follow the rules that they clearly defined for others, but will skirt around the perimeters of the definition to take advantage of their self-serving rules, and have the Judiciary System to redefine the rules when clear infringements have been observed.
Where did you get the idea that the electoral boundaries needs to be clearly defined three years before an election ?
If this is so, the next election is supposed to be in 2011, have you heard or seen any government gazette since 2008 - we are already into the last day of January 2009 ?
The opposition parties have always been playing by the book during an election - has the PAP been doing so before, during and after elections ?
Can alternative parties win in any election, when the self-serving "rules of the game" are designed to benefit the incumbent ( - before, during and after elections), while the same rules are cleverly designed to be stacked up against the alternative parties ?
Given the present set-up of the Singapore political scene that has been cunningly created by LKY over the last 40 odd years, Singaporeans have been quietly neutered by the disenfranchising of political rights, cowed into silence by the ruthless attacks against civil society that show concern to the POLITICAL LIFE of Singaporeans, and with fear driven home by deliberate cunning abuse of the Internal Security Act against any Singaporean who step up for the alternative parties and being accused to be a Communist, or racial chauvinist, or extremist.
Can the alternative parties succeed in the present political scenario which resemble a monolithic Communist ONE-Party State ?
The present alternative parties have the same set of talents as those in the PAP, who were recruited WITHOUT any experience and had become Ministers.
Looking back to 1957, LKY was even younger - at 30 odd years - when he was sworn in to be a Prime Minister, he had no experience in the workings of government, nor the massive support of Singaporeans then; and had largely depended on the support of political activists such as Lim Chin Siong and Company whom he had to work with but later betrayed.
Can LKY be more mature at the age of 30 odd years compared with the present leadership teams in the alternative political parties today in the 21st Century - all of them already in their 40s ?
SDP had even moved faster to take advantage of modern technologies to reach out to Singaporeans and circumvent the self-serving rules of the PAP Government that block the media from giving any publicity to the Alternative Parties.
Amongst all the alternative political parties, it seems that only the SDP is actively looking forward and preparing themselves and Singaporeans to the day when LKY will pass on - when even the PAP itself will probably disintegrate.
Is that not mature foresight ?
What is seen as political suicide at present, and seemingly disobedient to the unjust rule of law - is political lessons for Singaporeans to know what is rightfully ours that have been unjustly taken away from us by the self-serving legislations passed illegally without any consultation with Singaporeans.
The Penal Code has been legislated by the PAP Government to lock-down this island for their convenience, and have largely made nonsense of the Singapore Constitution that Singaporeans have been sworn to protect, but the PAP Government have very conveniently exploited at various occassions to follow or to ignore - and end up bastardising the Singapore Constitution into contradicting nonsensical legislations.
Is CSJ subverting the Rule of Law, or has the LKY and the PAP controlled Parliament subverted the Singapore Constitution - and in the process the Rule of Law as any civilised First World Society understand it to be ?
Again, you have unthinkingly and unashamedly plagiarise the self-serving bias opinions that have been propagated by LKY and his obedient PAP members.
CSJ active opposition of the Penal Code is to show Singaporeans that the law when distorted to benefit only the PAP - and not the Citizens - cannot be a good law.
Even the present Chief Justice Chan Sek Kiong comments had suggested that present legislations have tied the judges to the point that they no longer dispenses justice with the aim of rehabilitation, but become mere mechanism to enforce justice according to legislations passed by Parliament.
Your naive views in believing that CSJ can request for "convocation of the Legal Council to modify or strike off the law(the correct procedure)" is amusing.
Which Legal Council are you referring to in Singapore ?
Does one exist ?
If one does exist, do you believe that it is independent to act against all the legislations that have been crafted so cunningly by LKY - with perhaps the support of a superior legal mind that support him throughout his life ?
It is time that you awaken your mind from deep slumber and stop harping on the worn out idea of anarchy at the slightest call for civil disobedience.
Did Hongkong fall into chaos and anarchy in their protest of Beijing's attempts at breeching their own "ONE Country - Two Systems" concept, when Beijing tried to interfere in Hongkong's local politics ?
Did USA fall into anarchy when - 40 years ago - Dr Martin Luther King called for the masses to march against the injustice of segregation ?
If not for the daring vision and actions made 40 years ago by Dr Martin Luther King - will Barack Obama succeed in his attempts to be accepted by the multitude of different ethnic groups in the USA to become the 44th President ?
It is those that fear the clear Human Conscience of Right and Wrong that will falsely propagate the fear of anarchy, of instability, of chaos.
Can Singaporeans ever overcome the fear of the unknown, be enterprising and strike out for a new and better future for ourselves, or are we to be forever bound by the fear of the unknown outcome and settle for half-measures that continue to bind ourselves from opportunities ?
It takes maturity to face the unknown - as LKY did in his 30s.
It takes maturity to accept responsibility - as LKY did in his 30s.
It takes maturity to accept one's actions - as CSJ did in his 40s.
It takes maturity to accept one's defined role to act for Singaporeans - as the various members of the Alternative Political Parties have committed themselves to, by offering themselves publicly as candidates.
It takes maturity for Singaporeans to ignore the blatant propaganda that thrives on fear, ignorance, and stupidity.
Wise up, if you cannot wake up from your slumber.
Yes, there is an implication for a coup as there will not be any legal basis for a political change in the future of the next 2 weeks. You and Andrew were arguing for a change in the immediate future even by violent means as any political social action would not be liable for a legal change of government.
This thread was hijacked by the pro-CSJ supporters instead of airing any views by the political alternatives. CSJ is part of the political alternative but does not represent all the alternative views. It is sad to see that CSJ has such immature supporters who cannot abide by the rule of law.