Hong Kong sets Minimum Wage - What one Singaporean thinks
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Originally posted by likeyou:
He can survive but will have many enemies in his life.
but some people live on by having more enemies, if not, they will be very boring -
I thought TR closed down?
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Originally posted by βÎτά:
I thought TR closed down?
Even if it shuts down, others will spring up in its place.
Either that or just change name lor.
They did that a couple of times.
Got to love the internet.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
but some people live on by having more enemies, if not, they will be very boring
Yes employers love to make enemies among the organisations.While employee cannot make enemies for they need to help each other through thick and thin. But alias, bad mouthing, back stabbing prevail among the staff causing lots of unhappiness and stress.
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http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/10/23/consequences-of-implementing-minimum-wage-in-singapore/
Interesting article to read.
I think the comments are even worth reading more.
As always.
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We are deaf to comment, as usual. It is nice and easy to make comment, even in a comical way, but to do it, it an be worst, somebody have to do the job, and somebody will make comments, that is life, take it or leave it.
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singh english..oh! tell make, which govt speeches give you sense?
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since u are born with it, u fall for it, as most singaporeans fell for it, when we speak, we make people think, we will never give you the correct answer, this is the trick of a good speaker ya. And sg govt are very good in it. You can ask them anything, and the answer is alway not there, it will twist and turn and make you wonder if there is senses in it or not.
are we out of the topic...oops
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http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/10/cheaper-better-faster-till-70-and-beyond/
Cheaper, better and faster.
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http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/10/30/minimum-wage-policy-wont-work-employers-labour-chief/
Say no to minimum wage.
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Originally posted by charlize:
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/10/cheaper-better-faster-till-70-and-beyond/
Cheaper, better and faster.
Sounds like Buzz Lightyear.
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Setting minimum wage is not advisable.
Minimum wage is a kind of artificial control.
The market should decide.
When a force is applied to control the market.....by applying a floor, or a ceiling, it just does not work. It introduces distortions.
When minimum wage is applied....the result is actually more unemployment, and especially among some segments such as the youth.
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Originally posted by Veggie Bao:
Setting minimum wage is not advisable.
Minimum wage is a kind of artificial control.
The market should decide.
When a force is applied to control the market.....by applying a floor, or a ceiling, it just does not work. It introduces distortions.
When minimum wage is applied....the result is actually more unemployment, and especially among some segments such as the youth.
You market is not evey stable, with the labour supply being totally elastic, Singaporeans will only lose out.
300 workers the average wage was $1,000, you import another 200 workers. Now we have another extra 200 workers willing to undercut you for the job.Do you think the average wage will go up or down?
It depends on where you set your minimum wage, is it above or below the equilibrium point. Not like what you think.
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Well.....what is the equilibrium ?
The equilibrium should be found naturally by the market.
The equilibrium should be the natural and actual equilibrium.
But how is it possible that a bureaucrat sitting in an office in MoM, can be so smart to find out what the equilibrium is ?
And then he set the minimum wage ?
How is it possible that it would not introduce distortions and inefficiencies in the economy ?
How would it possibly be better for anybody ?
It's just a self-defeating measure. It's not good because when a wage floor is introduced, it would increase the number of unemployement.
I believe there should be other better ways to improve people's living standards, without resorting to false and harmful action.
Things such as improvement in infrastructure, giving tax incentives, subsidising training, and improvement in education, and so on.
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Originally posted by Veggie Bao:
Well.....what is the equilibrium ?
The equilibrium should be found naturally by the market.
The equilibrium should be the natural and actual equilibrium.
But how is it possible that a bureaucrat sitting in an office in MoM, can be so smart to find out what the equilibrium is ?
And then he set the minimum wage ?
How is it possible that it would not introduce distortions and inefficiencies in the economy ?
How would it possibly be better for anybody ?
It's just a self-defeating measure. It's not good because when a wage floor is introduced, it would increase the number of unemployement.
I believe there should be other better ways to improve people's living standards, without resorting to false and harmful action.
Things such as improvement in infrastructure, giving tax incentives, subsidising training, and improvement in education, and so on.
How you explain minister salaries that are pegged to private sector salaries?
No accountability for any cock ups even.
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Originally posted by Veggie Bao:
Well.....what is the equilibrium ?
The equilibrium should be found naturally by the market.
The equilibrium should be the natural and actual equilibrium.
But how is it possible that a bureaucrat sitting in an office in MoM, can be so smart to find out what the equilibrium is ?
And then he set the minimum wage ?
How is it possible that it would not introduce distortions and inefficiencies in the economy ?
How would it possibly be better for anybody ?
It's just a self-defeating measure. It's not good because when a wage floor is introduced, it would increase the number of unemployement.
I believe there should be other better ways to improve people's living standards, without resorting to false and harmful action.
Things such as improvement in infrastructure, giving tax incentives, subsidising training, and improvement in education, and so on.
Dude, can you read up more on minimum wage first ?
Minimum wage is good for the economy.
With our current depressed wages ...and increase in poverty...If you have a local business, how are you going to sell your wares to 10 people who cannot even afford 1 meal ?
With minimum wage, there will be more people with disposable income that can afford to buy from you.
Also, minimum wage will level the field between foreign and native job seekers. You look at their ability and pick the one better suited for the job. Min wage helps to shift hiring decision of employers from "who is the cheapest" to who is the "best fit".
Now how can this be bad ??????
Harmful you say .. more like you are so ignorant.
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Minimum wage just means the business owner gets to earn lower profits only.
If with minimum wage for the workers, the business owner cannot make any profit, then it's time for him to close the business or think of innovating his business in other ways to make profits.
Right now in Singapore, wages are already so low and the issue of minimum wage is to ensure that people will have a reasonable wage to survive day to day only. It's not to make our low wage workers millionaires.
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Business will not reinnovate much, you can't really change the corporate tax, the machine and the material, as a businesswoman, labour wage cost about 1/3 of business cost, and it is the most flexible variable to manipulate, by setting a mini wage will depend on 2 key issues,
1. If mini wage is set too high, cost of operating become a burden, I will either reduce workforce by mean of firing or retrenchment, end up those left behind having to work more with multitasking. If that still cannot work, close shop and move out. A total retrenchment or firing for those in management post. All go jobless.
2. If mini wage is set too low, definitely, workers are going to suffer, I may expand my business and employ more people, cos wages are low, and that end up more job opportunity for all, but in a long run, i may face poor quality product/service produced, cost wages are low, just like in indonesia where you can see so many staff waiting to serve you but very few serve well, cos their wages are low.
And finally, mini wage once set is somehow consider fix, there will be arguement and heat debate if you want to lower or higher it, just like other countries, where you see protest, strike, riot when govt want to lower the mini wage or when workers demand the mini wage to rise..so wages it become very inflexible in doing business. So, why go thru so much problem??
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Business will not reinnovate much, you can't really change the corporate tax, the machine and the material, as a businesswoman, labour wage cost about 1/3 of business cost, and it is the most flexible variable to manipulate, by setting a mini wage will depend on 2 key issues,
1. If mini wage is set too high, cost of operating become a burden, I will either reduce workforce by mean of firing or retrenchment, end up those left behind having to work more with multitasking. If that still cannot work, close shop and move out. A total retrenchment or firing for those in management post. All go jobless.
2. If mini wage is set too low, definitely, workers are going to suffer, I may expand my business and employ more people, cos wages are low, and that end up more job opportunity for all, but in a long run, i may face poor quality product/service produced, cost wages are low, just like in indonesia where you can see so many staff waiting to serve you but very few serve well, cos their wages are low.
And finally, mini wage once set is somehow consider fix, there will be arguement and heat debate if you want to lower or higher it, just like other countries, where you see protest, strike, riot when govt want to lower the mini wage or when workers demand the mini wage to rise..so wages it become very inflexible in doing business. So, why go thru so much problem??
1. You mean if your factory can only operate with minimum of 10 workers (all fully deployed on the control panels), you will employ 8? At the end of the day, your production plant still can't run.
2. You mean to say if your pub now runs with 10 workers operating at maximum capacity, you will employ another 2 to reduce your profits?
There must be something wrong with the government and businesses of these 190 plus countries with minimum wages.
Australia, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Ireland, Japan, South Korea, Holland, New Zealand, Spain, Switzerland, USA, .........
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Remember, i can employ 2 more peoples, but i expanded my business, eg. open a new pub.
Whether u employ 8 or 5 to cover a 10 workforce capacity, the production still can works, but on the quality and quantities side, you may loose out, and the 8 or 5 of them have to work harder and get stressed out. In workforce mgt, we need to consider all these factors, wages, workforce strenght, quality and quantities, time, profit margin and of course, health.
Most of the above countries are welfare countries, meaning no job still got pay and with a long history of industrialisation, with lovely acting kings and queens setting rules for them, for them, what is set, can be hardly be changed. I have met some of these country delegates in some int'l seminars, and for the govts, how they wish they can abolish welfare system, and for the boss, how they wish wages can be flexible and set according to market.There is nothing wrong with them, if it works well with them so be it. Singapore had been performing well without a minimium wage for all these years, why need a mini wage to unsettle thing. If mini wage is set at let say $1,200, what is so good about it, and end up NTS workers also getting such paid.
I can tell you that even around our Asia region, those countries with mini wage system are not practicing it, just across only, you see many indonesian and malaysian are paid below what was set and the laws keep silence over it, cos if not, companies will move out, and those who except paid below the mini wage will get the jobs. On the contrary, company can go into a contractual agreeement with the workers on a contract basis that remove the mini wage condition completely. So dun think that countries with mini wage are practising it ya, open your eyes hor.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Remember, i can employ 2 more peoples, but i expanded my business, eg. open a new pub.
Whether u employ 8 or 5 to cover a 10 workforce capacity, the production still can works, but on the quality and quantities side, you may loose out, and the 8 or 5 of them have to work harder and get stressed out. In workforce mgt, we need to consider all these factors, wages, workforce strenght, quality and quantities, time, profit margin and of course, health.
Most of the above countries are welfare countries, meaning no job still got pay and with a long history of industrialisation, with lovely acting kings and queens setting rules for them, for them, what is set, can be hardly be changed. I have met some of these country delegates in some int'l seminars, and for the govts, how they wish they can abolish welfare system, and for the boss, how they wish wages can be flexible and set according to market.There is nothing wrong with them, if it works well with them so be it. Singapore had been performing well without a minimium wage for all these years, why need a mini wage to unsettle thing. If mini wage is set at let say $1,200, what is so good about it, and end up NTS workers also getting such paid.
I can tell you that even around our Asia region, those countries with mini wage system are not practicing it, just across only, you see many indonesian and malaysian are paid below what was set and the laws keep silence over it, cos if not, companies will move out, and those who except paid below the mini wage will get the jobs. On the contrary, company can go into a contractual agreeement with the workers on a contract basis that remove the mini wage condition completely. So dun think that countries with mini wage are practising it ya, open your eyes hor.
Don't bullshit lah sista.
Can you even sleep at night knowing your workers cannot afford to pay their mortgage and eat 1 meal a day, just so you can open one more pub ? For you no problem right.
Instead of paying a decent pay, you'd rather exploit them with low wages for your personal gain and business expansion hor.
20 underpaid workers, and 2 pubs, vs 8 min wage workers and 1 pub. Ofcors you will choose to underpay them.
" GREED".. sista.. I will pray extra hard for you so you can keep your angel wings ok.
Which country delegate you talked to ? Not all forumers here are xiao di di xiao mei mei, so easily conned by you leh.
Companies move out ah.. move to where ? You want to open your pub in Malaysia and Indonesia ? Go lor.. how much can you sell your XO and Guinness stout in those countries ?
Removing mini wage condition ? Well, that's only possible in corrupt countries, because it is illegal ya. Try doing that in 1st world country lah.. you go explain to the judge lor.
Sista, money can earn.. but earn with a clear conscience. OK ? Good.