RJC incident. . .
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Have u people watched the video? What are your views on the incident???
Somehow I don't see why the public is kicking up such a big fuss, cos the incident shown in the video could very well have happened in any school in Singapore as a very normal occurence.
And why is the the Minister of State for Education defending the teacher involved? Why should the ministry comment in the first? I think MOE should just stay out of this.
Dr Ng's claims of stress are just not valid. I believe that if teacher's have the right to blow their tops cos of stress, then why are students being punished for every little mistake in school, stress or no stress???
Whats the final outcome of education going to be in Singapore??? Is it quality students able to contribute to society??? or is it merely building up a good name for education in Singapore???
also heard from rumours that Mr Winston Hodge, principal of RJC, is banning devices that can be used to take similar videos in classes after this incident. my point is: hey, so whats happening in classrooms can't be shown to the public?
but then again, at the end of the day, i am a student, and a biased one at that. thus my opinions might be skewed in support of the student involved in the taking of the video. . . -
also, i just checked the website that i downloaded the video from: www.tookoolfoskool.schoolreference.com
its been suspended. . .
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what happened?
p.s.
it's not down.. you can d/l the thing in QT.. but you need quicktime6.3.. download it from the apple site...
the teacher just loses it and rants on and on, then rips up the student's paper.. -
Can some1 send me the video? or tell me what happened??
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Simple:Originally posted by laser51088:And why is the the Minister of State for Education defending the
teacher involved? Why should the ministry comment in the first? I
think MOE should just stay out of this.
The MOE (or the government in general) has an instinctive
fear of student activities, be it by a singular or an organisation of
them which publicly shows defiance towards their authorities and
control.
This has very much to do with historical events were frequently
triggered by students bodies' activies from China's 1989 Tiananman to downfall of Suharto gov.
yes, what has this little video clip got the authorities so worked-up ?
Reasons is internet which easily allow any students today to provide
alternative views and THEIR owns views not just in words by in audio and vision form when the authorities (e.g teacher) were
at their worst. This is not what the gov is prepared to see.
For me, I do not see this recorded incident as any more "private"
(the excuse given by the principle for punishing the filmmaker
student within the class) than what that teacher has done to the
student in front of his schoolmates.
Simple case of equal (or unequate ?) treatment of justice. -
oh, may i know what the assignment was for?
what the tutor ranted about was "weirdos and deviants"..
banning recording devices? who knows? it may be setting the wolf among the sheep.. but it may also be taking away the sheepdog from the corral when you know the wolf is there... -
which website u go? the one i mentioned above says 'This site has been suspended. 'Originally posted by the Bear:what happened?
p.s.
it's not down.. you can d/l the thing in QT.. but you need quicktime6.3.. download it from the apple site...
the teacher just loses it and rants on and on, then rips up the student's paper..
i downloaded it there before it got suspended. its 4.8mb in .mov (Quicktime) format.
in case u can't find the video, here's some ST articles abt it:
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12July 2003
Student's ticking-off goes from RJC to Net
'Counselling' for teacher whose tirade in class is recorded secretly and posted online; college investigating incident
By Sandra Davie
WHEN a Raffles Junior College teacher hauled up a student and gave him a thorough ticking-off, she did not know that another student was recording it all on video.
He then posted the three-minute video clip on the Internet.
It shows the General Paper teacher telling a male student his homework was 'outdated and irrelevant' and calling him a 'sly, crafty, old rat'.
When he tries to respond, she tells him: 'You are trying to cover up your insolence, your defiance, your laziness, your apathy, your lethargy and your bad attitude.'
She then tears his homework in two.
The boy who captured it all used a personal digital assistant with a built-in-camera. Calling himself 'bw', he put the videoclip on one website, but over the past month, it has been copied onto several others frequented by students.
After The Straits Times called the school, principal Winston Hodge showed the teacher the videoclip. She is not being named here at the school's request.
Mr Hodge said he spoke to the boy with the camera and his parents yesterday. The boy was 'apologetic' and said he regretted his action.
The school was still investigating, Mr Hodge said.
The Internet posting attracted 12 pages of comments on just one website, including some from students criticising the RJC student for recording the incident secretly.
Responding online, he said the teacher should not have 'crucified' the student in front of the class. He said that the boy being scolded was from China and Chinese nationals tended to be weak in General Paper.
He claimed that he went public with his recording to find out what other students thought, not to entertain people or humiliate the teacher.
His principal yesterday appeared to agree with him that the teacher might have gone overboard and said that she had been 'counselled'.
'In the course of a teacher's work, there are times when there is a need to chastise students for tardy work and attitude,' Mr Hodge said.
'I believe this is what happened here, although based on the video, the teacher did lose her temper and went beyond what was necessary.'
RJC students are allowed to use cellphones and palmtops in school, but not in the library, classrooms, laboratories or lecture theatres.
'Responsible use also means requesting permission of the people being photographed or videotaped rather than to do it without them being aware,' said Mr Hodge.
An Education Ministry spokesman confirmed that schools are free to set the rules on the use of cellphones and palmtops by students.
But teachers who were told about the RJC incident told The Straits Times it was time the ministry imposed a ban.
Said an RJC teacher who declined to be named: 'The policy needed a rethink now that electronic devices have advanced to the point that students can intrude into your privacy.
Defending her colleague, she added: 'A teacher has every right to scold a student if he is handing in copied work or sub-standard work.'
Another junior college teacher said: 'Teachers are already under a lot of stress. And now we have students with snooping devices trying to catch them off-guard.'
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12 July 2003
RJC student to be punished for secret recording
By Sandra Davie and Tracy Quek
RAFFLES Junior College has made it clear that the boy who filmed a classmate being taken to task by a teacher will face disciplinary action as he had violated school rules.
Principal Winston Hodge said on Saturday that the school was still deciding on the appropriate action to take.
The Straits Times reported on Saturday that a three-minute video clip of an RJC General Paper teacher ticking off a student and then ripping up his homework has been making the rounds on the Internet for the past month.
A classmate captured the incident using a personal digital (PDA) assistant with a built-in-camera, and posted it on a website. It soon appeared on other websites frequented by students.
Mr Hodge said on Saturday that students were allowed to bring handphones and PDAs to school but they were not supposed to use them in the lecture theatres and tutorial rooms without the permission of the teacher.
'Whatever the reasons, it is an intrusion of what I would call a private moment, between a teacher and her class,' he said.
The 38 readers who called and sent emails to express their view were divided on whether the boy should be disciplined, and if he had done anything wrong at all.
About a dozen were in favour of the student's decision to record the incident. Many were parents who related how their own children had been severely ticked off by angry teachers in school.
Others said they could accept and understand why the student resorted to recording the scolding, but felt he should have gone to his principal instead of posting the clip on the Internet.
But another camp was appalled by the student's actions. The callers, several of them teachers, condemned his behaviour and agreed with Mr Hodge that it was an invasion of privacy.
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14 July 2003
Don't be too hasty to judge teacher who scolded RJC student
Professionals have their worst moments; tutor shouldn't be discouraged, says minister, urging teachers to find better ways of communication
RELATING how as a doctor, he has lost his temper with patients and their relatives, Minister of State for Education Ng Eng Hen yesterday said that people should not be too hasty to judge a teacher who was caught on video lashing out at a student.
The Raffles Junior College (RJC) General Paper teacher was seen telling a student his homework was 'outdated and irrelevant' and calling him a 'sly, crafty, old rat', before tearing up his homework.
His classmate who recorded the incident using a personal digital assistant with a built-in camera and then posted the three-minute clip on the Internet will be disciplined for violating school rules, principal Winston Hodge was reported saying on Saturday.
The teacher was counselled for losing her temper while scolding a student for his tardy work attitude.
Putting the issue in perspective, Dr Ng, who is also Acting Minister for Manpower, said that people should not be too hasty to judge, since they do not know what happened before or after the incident.
When asked for his views on the issue at a grassroots event yesterday, he said: 'I've been a doctor and I have lost my temper with patients and their relatives. I'm not proud of it...as professionals, there are times when you are caught at your worst moments.
'I hope the teacher doesn't get discouraged and say she's going to give up teaching because people have seen her in a less than better moment and think she's a terrible teacher.'
Still, he noted, teachers should 'reflect on better ways of communicating' what they want to students.
Dr Ng added that some schools had banned recording technology from classrooms not to prevent incidents like the RJC one from being recorded, but to minimise distractions during lessons.
Urging those who owned such devices to be responsible, he said:
'Technology does put undue spotlight on our activities. And not just for professionals. If you're a parent, if you, as a mother or father, are caught in your worst moments disciplining your child and it's put on the Internet for everyone to see, you might have people saying, 'Oh what a terrible parent you are.' '
The issue and the school's reaction have drawn a flood of responses from Straits Times readers over the weekend, with some of them coming out strongly in defence of the student who posted the videoclip on the Internet.
If the boy is to be punished, the teacher involved should not be let off with just a talking to, they said.
The principal was also way off the mark when he labelled the filming an intrusion of 'a private moment', said others.
'What private moment is he insinuating when the teacher embarrassed and verbally abused the student in the presence of a big class setting?' wrote Dr Rosemary Chai, one of over 60 people who either called or sent e-mail messages on their views of the incident.
'If the principal feels that the student should be punished, the teacher should also be punished... for the psychological and emotional well-being of the student she has abused,' she wrote.
It is not clear from the clip what the student did to deserve the severe scolding, although there are hints that he had been warned before and had promised to change.
Nonetheless, a Straits Times Interactive poll, involving about 700 readers, found that two in three felt that his classmate did no wrong in recording the incident and posting the clip on the Internet.
Some readers, like Mr Christopher Soh, cautioned that if the student is punished and the teacher let off with counselling, it would leave youths here with the message that whoever has authority on their side can get away with anything.
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tink the student did nothing wrong and quite poor thing to have to be punished for being the whistle blower...
sigh... i tink dats just the way it goes in sg.. never question the authority unless u wanna get blacklisted or sued to bankruptcy...
i tink most of us hv our fair share of "psychotic" tutors during our school days, and we know better wats gg on in this saga... -
uh... it was the tookoolfoskool site...
4.8mb...
if you guys cannot get d/l, just PM me your email addy.. PM har.. don't post your email on the forum
i'll send via email... but remember to clear out your mailbox first.. coz it's 4.8Mb -
You know what the reason for this MOE shit is? Its because of stuff like
"Teach, mould the future of our nation"
Which gives teachers in general a big head, they think that students are 2nd rate slaves under their beck and call. They think that the fancy chairs (teachers get to sit on only @ assembly; students sit on floor), clean teachers toilets, teachers being allowed to cut queues@cafeterias, along with many other privaledges...has contributed to egoistic teachers. They think they can just push anyone around.
I am really disgusted at the Ministry of Education and its methods. The ban of electronic devices by the principal is to cover up other shit that is going on in schools.
I know of other shit that happens in other schools, e.g. St.Andrew's Secondary. Once a pastor accused the entire sec 4 cohort of practicing witchcraft in the school chapel, just because no student wanted to step up to the front to "accept God". Also the school called for students to bring Harry Potter books to school to have them burned. Lastly, if u go to St. Andrtew's Sec school after school, u will hear screaming fm the chapel as people are "exorcised". Is'nt Singapore a secular society?
Furthermore, some school teachers make students to pushups and run around tracks for not handing up homework.
It really disgusts me that the teaching profession has stooped so low -
I know of other @%$@ that happens in other schools, e.g. St.Andrew's Secondary. Once a pastor accused the entire sec 4 cohort of practicing witchcraft in the school chapel, just because no student wanted to step up to the front to "accept God". Also the school called for students to bring Harry Potter books to school to have them burned. Lastly, if u go to St. Andrtew's Sec school after school, u will hear screaming fm the chapel as people are "exorcised". Is'nt Singapore a secular society?
Wah, so hiong ah. I wonder if you see this in other mission schools. -
Great story, did you see it first hand or did you hear it from a friend who heard it from his friend who hear it from his friend? Because I'm sure if you see it first hand and are willing to bear witness and complain to the relevant authorities or the press instead of hiding behind your monitor, I'm sure something will be done because this is illegal.Originally posted by mixedblooder:I know of other shit that happens in other schools, e.g. St.Andrew's Secondary. Once a pastor accused the entire sec 4 cohort of practicing witchcraft in the school chapel, just because no student wanted to step up to the front to "accept God". Also the school called for students to bring Harry Potter books to school to have them burned. Lastly, if u go to St. Andrtew's Sec school after school, u will hear screaming fm the chapel as people are "exorcised". Is'nt Singapore a secular society?
BTW, I'm an atheist -
But if any teacher does that to me, i would talk back and defend my stand, if i am wrong i will admit it and tell her to lay off since i realise my mistake, only that way it is civilised. I guess not many locals have the same guts as me, it is probably my heritage and western looks which makes the teachers not want to pick on me perhaps? Anywayz, but if a teacher keeps provoking me by going on, I would also raise my voice back to her. Eventually if she does not stop, i may be driven to utter lunacy and reach for the nearest broom to shut her/him up.
So teachers beware, don't push it, there is a lot a student can take before pushing back. Beware. Don't be too proud -
never happened long ago when i was in ACS...
but we didn't like the pastor.. we thought he behaved more like a Pharisee than a man of GodOriginally posted by SingaporeMacross:Wah, so hiong ah. I wonder if you see this in other mission schools. -
ha ha ha! I witnessed it 1st hand, it was religious emphasis week. The pastor idiot asked "All who believe come to the front"... no one went up cos they are smarter than the religion. Then the pastor got angry and said shit like "U all not believing blah blah blah.... u carry on down the path of WITCHCRAFT and you will all go to hell" he said pointing at us. I was a student, I was there.
Anytime i wanted, i can enflame Saint Andrew's sec if i want... if they push me, i'll go to the papers. The entire sec 4 cohort is witness, although some may say "nvm lar..." cos they could not care less, but this is interesting information which goes to show the standard of education here. -
ha ha ha! I witnessed it 1st hand, it was religious emphasis week. The pastor idiot asked "All who believe come to the front"... no one went up cos they are smarter than the religion. Then the pastor got angry and said shit like "U all not believing blah blah blah.... u carry on down the path of WITCHCRAFT and you will all go to hell" he said pointing at us. I was a student, I was there.
Anytime i wanted, i can enflame Saint Andrew's sec if i want... if they push me, i'll go to the papers. The entire sec 4 cohort is witness, although some may say "nvm lar..." cos they could not care less, but this is interesting information which goes to show the standard of education here. -
ha ha ha! I witnessed it 1st hand, it was religious emphasis week. The pastor idiot asked "All who believe come to the front"... no one went up cos they are smarter than the religion. Then the pastor got angry and said shit like "U all not believing blah blah blah.... u carry on down the path of WITCHCRAFT and you will all go to hell" he said pointing at us. I was a student, I was there.
Anytime i wanted, i can enflame Saint Andrew's sec if i want... if they push me, i'll go to the papers. The entire sec 4 cohort is witness, although some may say "nvm lar..." cos they could not care less, but this is interesting information which goes to show the standard of education here. -
I believe that if teacher's have the right to blow their tops cos of stress, then why are students being punished for every little mistake in school, stress or no stress???
No I don't believe that teachers or anyone in positions of authority have the right to blow up because they're in a lousy mood, but is that the case? How do we know that the student wasn't a slacker with a reputation for shoddy work and that he had been warned to buck up repeatedly already. Aren't we rushing into assumptions and judging the teacher without knowing all the facts?
Whats the final outcome of education going to be in Singapore??? Is it quality students able to contribute to society??? or is it merely building up a good name for education in Singapore???
Good and very pertinent questions. But how would students be able to learn if teachers and the system mollycoddle them and allow students to hand in work with poor standards (or nt hand it in at all) without being able to tell them off?
also heard from rumours that Mr Winston Hodge, principal of RJC, is banning devices that can be used to take similar videos in classes after this incident. my point is: hey, so whats happening in classrooms can't be shown to the public?
I agree with the ban. After all, aren't there other avenues for recourse for students who feel they are treated unfairly without resorting to the Internet?
I'm close to the teaching profession but am not a teacher, and I know for the a fact that in such cases the MoE WILL NOT stand by a teacher unless the teacher's case is very compelling.
tink most of us hv our fair share of "psychotic" tutors during our school days, and we know better wats gg on in this saga...
And I've seen my share of students who ought to be shot.
For me, I do not see this recorded incident as any more "private"
(the excuse given by the principle for punishing the filmmaker
student within the class) than what that teacher has done to the
student in front of his schoolmates.
Well, maybe its not private, but the school should have been able to deal with this privately before it was made public.
The MOE (or the government in general) has an instinctive
fear of student activities, be it by a singular or an organisation of
them which publicly shows defiance towards their authorities and
control.
Yes, this is why more often than not, the school and MoE sides with a student and/or his moaning parents, even when the teacher is not in the wrong.
I understand that quite a few of you here are students, and at least Laser is man enough to admit that his point of view might be biased because of that. Well I was a student once, but I guess I'm able to see things from both sides as I do know quite a few teachers.
So do I think the teacher is wrong? I can't say, because I don't have full access to the facts of the whole story, but look at it this way, if teachers do not have the right to scold students when they underperform, how would they be able to educate effectively?
Did she go too far? As it is she did not use physical violence on the student. As one who in his student days, endured teachers who hit students with the 1m wooden ruler on that accompanies the classroom blackboard, teachers who slapped students in class, and been on the receiving end of scoldings much worse than what the RJC student endured, I would say no. -
If thats the case, go ahead! If you can stand behind you allegations then you really should report this. Because like I said, this is a serious allegation and in direct violation of the rules in school.Originally posted by mixedblooder:ha ha ha! I witnessed it 1st hand, it was religious emphasis week. The pastor idiot asked "All who believe come to the front"... no one went up cos they are smarter than the religion. Then the pastor got angry and said shit like "U all not believing blah blah blah.... u carry on down the path of WITCHCRAFT and you will all go to hell" he said pointing at us. I was a student, I was there.
Anytime i wanted, i can enflame Saint Andrew's sec if i want... if they push me, i'll go to the papers. The entire sec 4 cohort is witness, although some may say "nvm lar..." cos they could not care less, but this is interesting information which goes to show the standard of education here.
Like I said, since you think and know its wrong, and obviouslly don't like it, then why not complain to the relevant authorities rather than moaning anonymously about it on the Internet? Why let them push you further? -
I agree with Viper...
Lets think it in a more extreme way, wat if u r a teacher and this happened to u. A student keep copying works from other student, bully the teacher by disturbing the class, write sarcastic remarks in the essay scolding about u. I think tat he was already prepared for the backlash from the teacher, tat is why the recording equipment can be ready. (Either tat or she just scold too much everyday)
Let me ask, wat aid does the teacher have in order to deal with students ? I heard of stories of student throwing a half full Yakault bottle at the blackboard while teacher is writing. I heard of pupils dancing at the top of chairs during the lessons. I heard of pupils running in front of teachers and publicly humilate them. Let me ask u people outside, if tat happens to u when u r a teacher, wat will u do ?
I believe tat teacher and pupils relationship should be of mentor to students and not as friends. We cannot give absolute powers to the teachers, but neither does we strip of all powers from the teachers too. If children r too pampered, they can't take the grinding of life by being scolded by teacher, then I see tat they r potential spoilt brats and won't go far in life. TV shows of teachers with perfect students r not possible. Favourite teachers doesn't appear all our school lessons.
Of course, the teacher way of scolding is too much, I got to agree. But MOE decision to defend the student is the right decision. -
last time my sec school.. a group of sec 3 boys beat up the discipline master until kena stroke.. all of them were sacked
the DM recover liao..come back school..low profile liao hahaa -
hahahaa..if you fight with a teacher, you're always on the losing end.. i was once a problem student... the DM keep chasing my ass..Originally posted by mixedblooder:But if any teacher does that to me, i would talk back and defend my stand, if i am wrong i will admit it and tell her to lay off since i realise my mistake, only that way it is civilised. I guess not many locals have the same guts as me, it is probably my heritage and western looks which makes the teachers not want to pick on me perhaps? Anywayz, but if a teacher keeps provoking me by going on, I would also raise my voice back to her. Eventually if she does not stop, i may be driven to utter lunacy and reach for the nearest broom to shut her/him up.
So teachers beware, don't push it, there is a lot a student can take before pushing back. Beware. Don't be too proud
once that F UCKhead catch me for my hair or something (obviously hes picking on me, cos there ARE LOTS of boys with LONGER hair than mine)
then i protested and ask why dont catch others? he told me to follow him to the meeting room and wanted to fight with me..well..watching him, i guess i could kick his ass and send him to hospital (i was doing weight trainig at that time) but luckily my temper could be put on hold... and i didnt ...cos i'd be on the losing end -
rules require enforcement, otherwise they just become mere alphabets on a piece of paper.
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Let's face it .....in s'pore students r considered second class to teachers and the principal.......even if they r wrong..coz by "right' they can't be wrong coz they have the power.......to abuse and cover up.....of course not all but they cetainly can!!!!tt makez sch more like jail....tts y there r so many suffers around....sianz
even if u wan to rebut a teachers acusations u still hav to think twice even if they r wrong...coz very easily they can saboh ur life.....
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it is also the duty of a good student or citizen to disobey bad rulesOriginally posted by nismoS132:rules require enforcement, otherwise they just become mere alphabets on a piece of paper.