Age Discrimination in Singapore - the old cannot find jobs
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I just had a conversation with a friend, who is 50 and trying to find a job.
She said that it is really hard to find a job now in Singapore due to her age. And that people have been turning her down, even though she has had much experience in her field. Some have even gone so far as to ask for the age, and when she told them she was 50, they said she was 'too old'.
I do not think that companies have the right to use age as an excuse to refuse employment or terminating an employee. There are people who are over 50 and have excellent health and can perform as well as a 30 year old.
I think there should be laws to stop this age discrimination. An older person does not make him/her an inefficient worker. A lazy worker makes an inefficient worker! There are going to be many older people in Singapore in years to come, we could need the extra workers due to the poor birth rates. Furthermore, labeling the older people as disfunctioned, useless, and inefficient by discriminating aginst them based on their age has backlashes too.
If society makes you feel old and tells you that you are not wanted and you have nothing else to contribute how would you feel? I think there could be a rise in physicological truma, and how about suicide, they might feel so unwanted by society that they could end up thinking about it. If credit card debts keep on rising, discriminating against the old will make it harder for them to pay back what they owe.
I think there needs to be laws regulating how companies hire their employees. I am not asking to control every single move a company makes but to make sure that it is done fairly and appropriately. Maybe it could be like Canada, where no companies can ask for a person's age when interviewing them.
So what do you all think?
Do you think that there is age discrimination in Singapore?
If there is, how should we stop this? -
my aunt 40+....oso same problem......
she used to own a boutique but due to poor biz, she concluded it.....she looked in the papers for boutiques tt wanna hire sales assistant.......she's got all the experience in retail, procurement, sales, stock and accounts........but the universal response was.....they want someone who is young and good-looking.......
then she found a job at a dept store.....but requires her to stand 8 hours straight, in low heels........old oredi leh.....how to tahan.........
she now considering being baby-sitter........... -
Looking straight into the problem, the solution is simple and hard at the same time.
Is it possible to create jobs only for the old? What is it that they do best that the young can't.
ponders ponders ponders... -
tell grandmother stories?......Originally posted by Parka:Is it possible to create jobs only for the old? What is it that they do best that the young can't.
ponders ponders ponders...
wat they have is life experience..........plenty of it........but can't turn tt as earning power......
mac got ah pehs and ah mas clearing tables and all......but then they are slow and long hours of standing and moving not good for their frail body....... -
I was just talking about this age thing with a friend few days ago.
Apparently the only potential employer that we could turn to in our old age is McDonalds.
Think they're the only fellows who hire old older folks. -
was at kenny rogers @ suntec last Sat.....the clear plates and wipe tables one oso lao ren jia......but those behind the counter, taking order and serving food one are youngsters.......Originally posted by Spear:I was just talking about this age thing with a friend few days ago.
Apparently the only potential employer that we could turn to in our old age is McDonalds.
Think they're the only fellows who hire old older folks. -
Get the retired teachers to mark exam papers and test papers...
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Devil Croco -
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was at MOS burger the other day. they too hire some old folk to help out. there was a mix of teens and some old folk. the old folk were so polite and gave great service, even when cleaning the tables. they greeted all customers when they entered and left. as for the teens behind the counter, they gave you a couldn't-be-bothered attitude.
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That spells the end of me.
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Some have replied and said the only few jobs for the older people in Singapore is to work in Macdonalds and cleaners.
So do you think that older people with degrees and education should also work at macdonalds when they grow older? If they have the knowledge and experience in their field, why do they have to resort to such jobs as being a cleaner? How do we know that they are fragile and brittle, if we do not give them a chance of an interview to even prove that they are not weak and are capable of doing the job?
How should the government support the older people in society?
So tell me what do you all think! How should we stop this. As a younger person, I do not want to have to go through this when I grow older. With my education that I have now, I want to be able to use it even when I grow older.
Do all of you think it is important to stop this age discrimination that is happening right now? Or do you think you are going to die before this discrimination hits you? -
first lets make use of this and ask sm to retire then we change the law, need to let him have a taste of it first
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planning starts now.
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And how do you propose that we stop this Age discrimination?
Of course we know the current widely practiced HR doctrine of ‘hiring young and firing old’ isn’t at all a fair manner of treatment to staff whom have contributed to the growth and survival of a company or organization over the years of their employment.
We can’t effectively enact a law to strictly dictate all employers to give word that retrenchment or dismissal will not be carried out because this is neither feasible nor viable especially when the even the MOM stand on this issue is such that ‘bitter medicines’ are sometimes the only available solutions.
Not that I am an avid supporter of this trend, but this is the reality that our local economic and business environment has already evolved into today.
Other than to put down on our desire to see the old days of lifetime employment opportunities making a comeback from the grave, what we may only do, is to attempt re-assessing on the new Knowledge-based turn of economy as we presume will be the dominant paradigm that sustains the local economy and hope to find some smaller niche in which some space will be available for older folks with the right mix of education, practical experience and exposure may still offer contributions forth in return for some basic remuneration.
There will be hell of a lot more changes to the employment trends and practices in time to come. And at the foremost, we are already seeing a volume of job openings being converted to the typical 2 years contract term (especially in Stat boards).
Whether a youngster in his early thirties can successfully ensure a smooth and undisrupted path of career advancement, even this once a fundamental and silly to ask question we can’t answer now – let alone worry and attempt to solve the even more difficult set of challenge that older jobseekers face.
ItÂ’s not a matter of we-know-but-we dun-want-to-solve.
ItÂ’s a matter of we-know-but-we-dun-know-how-to-solve. -
A gentle word, my friend.Originally posted by Parka: planning starts now.
No Plan survives its first contact with Reality. -
I dont think that solving the problem of older jobseekers is that difficult. I think one of the fundamentals of contract based jobs is to select the best person to do the job within a set amount of time, however, that is beside the point. if you add the barrier of old age into the picture, it will affect everyone in due time, because everyone grows old. I am not against contract work but I am against barriers that are institutionalised, and ideologies that prevent hardworking people from finding a job.Originally posted by [ Neo ]:And how do you propose that we stop this Age discrimination?
Of course we know the current widely practiced HR doctrine of ‘hiring young and firing old’ isn’t at all a fair manner of treatment to staff whom have contributed to the growth and survival of a company or organization over the years of their employment.
We can’t effectively enact a law to strictly dictate all employers to give word that retrenchment or dismissal will not be carried out because this is neither feasible nor viable especially when the even the MOM stand on this issue is such that ‘bitter medicines’ are sometimes the only available solutions. [/quote]
Yes agreed that this is a widely practiced HR doctrine... BUT, there should be valid reasons for retrenchment or dismissal, and it should not be based on age. Reasons based on better shareholder profits, to me, is not a good enough reason. Any retrenchment and dismissals should take the welfare of all stakeholders in mind. Furthermore, retrenchment should be accompanied by helping the laid off employee survive after being retrenched, examples such as retraining etc. I also think there are effective ways of putting a stop to this widely practiced doctrine. If there is a law that stops this age discrimination and an effective way to police this law, it will work. An seperate ministry could be set up to assist people who have been wrongly dismissed could work too. (just a thought)
yes we are in a new knowledge based economy but that does not change the fact that the old need jobs too. It does not change the fact that the route Singapore is taking is not sustaining the lives of its people. If it is reality, it does not mean that we should stand by it if it is not going to work out in the long run. Should age be a factor if the person is older, but have the 'right mix of education, pratical experience and exposure'? Is a company responsible if they practice age discrimination?
Not that I am an avid supporter of this trend, but this is the reality that our local economic and business environment has already evolved into today.
Other than to put down on our desire to see the old days of lifetime employment opportunities making a comeback from the grave, what we may only do, is to attempt re-assessing on the new Knowledge-based turn of economy as we presume will be the dominant paradigm that sustains the local economy and hope to find some smaller niche in which some space will be available for older folks with the right mix of education, practical experience and exposure may still offer contributions forth in return for some basic remuneration.
It is also widely understood that now a days, there is no such thing as lifetime employment with one company. People come and go, they use companies as stepping stones to better theirselves. But again, if age is going to be a major factor why people cannot find jobs. It makes no difference if there is lifetime employment or not.
What kind of spaces are you talking about, working in Macdonalds? even with the qulifications that one might have? If the birth rates in SG is going to remain low, and older people are not going to get the jobs they are well qualified to do, Companies here will hire more overseas people to do the job, older people will get frustrated, younger ones will feel that they have to compete against overseas people, and the cycle begins. If there were no age requirements/barriers for job placements, then there will be less reasons for people to feel frustrated. it will be fairer, because overseas people that come to SG to work will be here because they have the qualifications not just because they are younger.
[quote]
There will be hell of a lot more changes to the employment trends and practices in time to come. And at the foremost, we are already seeing a volume of job openings being converted to the typical 2 years contract term (especially in Stat boards).
Whether a youngster in his early thirties can successfully ensure a smooth and undisrupted path of career advancement, even this once a fundamental and silly to ask question we can’t answer now – let alone worry and attempt to solve the even more difficult set of challenge that older jobseekers face.
ItÂ’s not a matter of we-know-but-we dun-want-to-solve.
ItÂ’s a matter of we-know-but-we-dun-know-how-to-solve.
I think stoping age discrimination, and focusing on the most productive and capable person is a better route to take. eliminating older workers, I think, is not a sustainable way of thinking. By eliminating older workers too, we are just throwing away valuable workers that can perform.
I think the government should put out a set of rules to govern how people are able to be dismissed, so that the dismissal will be fair and just. It is widely known that in order to get companies act justly and correctly, the government have to play a big role in making them act.
I understand the reality of things, but if you are going to accept it and not do anything about it, then you have no reason to complain ( I am speaking about the general public not about u specfically).
To get things done, we need to speak up. We need to bounce ideas around and deliberate about the situation or any situation. -
Income Discrimination in Singapore - the poor cannot find money
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Originally posted by [ Neo ]:A gentle word, my friend.
No Plan survives its first contact with Reality.
That's when you don't take reality in account. -
Hi there,
My dad kana retrenched from the company he worked for 20 over yrs.(Work as saleman in Sim Lim Tower). The old boss retired and his son took over(u go guess the story)
He used to take home abt 2000 plus salary(basic and com)
Quite good for a man below pri6 education.
So, wat happen, he found a job and work as a deliveryman CUM storeman in Ubi area.
Man, salary is $900 and it has mantained for 3 yrs(no increment).
The boss said either u take it or leave it.
Now, me worry abt my family, by calculation, my child will be ard 15 if i kana retrench at ard 40plus.
So in this case, my dad is lucky that my bro and me were areadi working liao.(my dad got marry early, at 21yrs old)
So, wat will happen to me ??????
I can hv a degree wif many experience, but hey,
Its the AGE that is the killer and tats nothing we can do to prevent getting old leh
SO, i can only workhard and save as many as i can when i'm in my golden age.RITE?
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Young nowdays can't find job.... how can old get one easily!!
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Yes I agree work hard and wait for the 'golden years'... but, I am also thinking about others who have debts to pay, and they are getting older; whereby they are working in an environment where their bosses see old age as retrenchment time. I am also thinking about those who have little savings because everything is spent on the high cost of living.
I think you are lucky to understand that saving is a great asset, but how about the growing majority of people who are getting deeper into debt. Or those caught in between this struggle of restructuring income in SG, seeing their income decrease.
Age plays such a big role as a barrier to older workers. These older debt induced individuals who is increasingly becoming the majority of Singaporeans, will be the ones feeling the bite of this barrier in the near future.
I am sorry to hear about your dad.
In a society that the old are living longer and healtier lives, we as citizens must think of ways to help stop this problem before people like you and me (the younger ones *blush*) will have to go through this too.
I know the young are not really getting jobs too, that is another issue, not a totally saperate issue. However, why I concentrate on the old is because, some of them are forced to leave because they have reached that age. Some are made to feel weak and useless, so that they will leave on their own accord.
This I think is unacceptable and this discrimination should stop. That is why I think curbing this ideology of old people not being able to work is good and we should all work towards it. because if we don't the repercussions will be felt by us in the future... live examples are slapped in our faces right now, they are everywhere. What should we do? -
Hey, dun be sorry for my dad, at least he get to work(tot the pay is peanuts)Originally posted by SGglobalist:Yes I agree work hard and wait for the 'golden years'... but, I am also thinking about others who have debts to pay, and they are getting older; whereby they are working in an environment where their bosses see old age as retrenchment time. I am also thinking about those who have little savings because everything is spent on the high cost of living.
I think you are lucky to understand that saving is a great asset, but how about the growing majority of people who are getting deeper into debt. Or those caught in between this struggle of restructuring income in SG, seeing their income decrease.
Age plays such a big role as a barrier to older workers. These older debt induced individuals who is increasingly becoming the majority of Singaporeans, will be the ones feeling the bite of this barrier in the near future.
I am sorry to hear about your dad.
In a society that the old are living longer and healtier lives, we as citizens must think of ways to help stop this problem before people like you and me (the younger ones *blush*) will have to go through this too.
I know the young are not really getting jobs too, that is another issue, not a totally saperate issue. However, why I concentrate on the old is because, some of them are forced to leave because they have reached that age. Some are made to feel weak and useless, so that they will leave on their own accord.
This I think is unacceptable and this discrimination should stop. That is why I think curbing this ideology of old people not being able to work is good and we should all work towards it. because if we don't the repercussions will be felt by us in the future... live examples are slapped in our faces right now, they are everywhere. What should we do?
Ya, me also in debt, HDB debt,$180k to pay for next 28 yrs.
To each his own, u juz have to plan ur life and live accordingly loh.
Another way is go invest on toto and 4d.
Tan twai twai and hope to kana a million
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This thing with age discrimination is a crying shame of SIngapore's employment scene. Keep up this trend of attitude, and we will have a large pool of unemployed local citizens who are over 40 years of age. As a fact, even for a local guy who is 35, the chance of landing a job is already rather slim.
I mean, there is of course nothing that a younger person can't do that an older one can. But employers, don't forget, younger people DO NOT have staying power. They are opportunistic, and will not think twice of hopping around. I know most employers here do not employ older people because of the prosepect of paying for their medicals ( as most people who grow old do come up with some form of ailment ) and medical costs in Singapore is indeed costly.
So what's left for Singaporeans when they grow old? If no one wants older LOCAL people, where can they fit into? I know about this problem, and I'm planning early to get the hell out of this country to retire comfortably. Instead of growing old and unwanted here.
This issue has been around for donkey years, and yet our government DOES NOTHING about it. They harp about babies, talk about us being choosy, not planning for our futures, but did they take a peek behind the scenes of older people here who can't apply their years of experience in any field just because of their age? I doubt so.
Where is the love? Just like that song - Where Is the Love??? -
I think this happens everywhere in the world.
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Originally posted by ShutterBug:This thing with age discrimination is a crying shame of SIngapore's employment scene. Keep up this trend of attitude, and we will have a large pool of unemployed local citizens who are over 40 years of age. As a fact, even for a local guy who is 35, the chance of landing a job is already rather slim.
I mean, there is of course nothing that a younger person can't do that an older one can. But employers, don't forget, younger people DO NOT have staying power. They are opportunistic, and will not think twice of hopping around. I know most employers here do not employ older people because of the prosepect of paying for their medicals ( as most people who grow old do come up with some form of ailment ) and medical costs in Singapore is indeed costly.
So what's left for Singaporeans when they grow old? If no one wants older LOCAL people, where can they fit into? I know about this problem, and I'm planning early to get the hell out of this country to retire comfortably. Instead of growing old and unwanted here.
This issue has been around for donkey years, and yet our government DOES NOTHING about it. They harp about babies, talk about us being choosy, not planning for our futures, but did they take a peek behind the scenes of older people here who can't apply their years of experience in any field just because of their age? I doubt so.
Where is the love? Just like that song - Where Is the Love??? I think it was mentioned in the papers once that it's not that the government doesn't do anything, it's that they are rather powerless to do anything.
Amazing eh?
Forgot what the argument is about already. But the government said it's really up to the employers to tackle the problem.
The government can definitely set requlations, but it's very hard to enforce.