RMAF MIG-29N from USAF point of view
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Bit dated though.........(now the MIG-29N got some extras "goodies")
RMAF MiG-29N
Capt. Rob Monberg
18 FS SME, Eielson AFB, AK
On 13 August 1997 I had the rare opportunity to fly in the back seat of a Royal Malaysian Air Force MiG 29N. The following is my account of the flight with emphasis on the man machine interface. The intent of this article is to sketch out the main human factors areas associated with this airplane replacing previously available technical information with a more human perspective. The hope is that U.S.A.F. pilots, flight surgeons, and human factors professionals may be able to glean some of the additional challenges that the MiG 29 pilot must face.
GENERAL CONSIDERATIONS
The MiG 29N two-seat model is designed as a trainer and airborne emergency procedure simulator. This model is not equipped with radar, but radar presentations can be simulated from the rear cockpit to be presented on the front cockpit display. The front cockpit is equipped with a shroud to facilitate instrument training. Essentially the two-seat model
functions as an airborne simulator. The Malaysian Air Force recently contracted a Canadian firm to design and construct a MiG 29N ground based simulator in order to conduct training in a more economical fashion.
Other than the lack of radar the jet is fully combat capable and is equipped with the helmet-mounted sight as well as the infrared tracking system. The MiG 29N was designed to be an air superiority fighter meant
to be heavily dependent upon ground based intercept controllers (GCI). The plane has a secondary ground attack role. The MiG 29 is a very capable fighter with a tremendous amount of thrust and a very rugged
airframe (the planes were shipped to Malaysia and assembled using sledgehammers). However, the limited by its small fuel capacity and very high fuel flows. Additionally, the MiG 29 pilots are unable to get enough training to expand their proficiency. Ironically, a similar situation exists in the U.S.A.F. F-16 pilots who are well trained but struggle to
maintain and expand proficiency in each of the F-16Â’s multiple roles. The lack of flying training time is offset by the limited number of roles that the MiG 29 is expected to fill and their leadershipÂ’s tendency to minimize risks. All of the Malaysian MiG 29 pilots (with two new exceptions) have prior fighter experience in the F-5. All pilots underwent basic pilot
training in Malaysia. Most pilots had 500 or more fighter hours prior to being selected to upgrade to the MiG 29. Initially MiG 29 upgrade training was conducted in Russia. Later pilots were trained either in India or in Malaysia.
LIFE SUPPORT GEAR AND EJECTION SEAT
I was lucky to be able to fly at all secondary to my near inability to fit into any of the available G-Suits (the average Malaysian appears to be slightly
shorter than the average American). I ended up barely fitting into the largest one available. The Malaysians employ a Russian Style G-Suit with the same bladder configuration as the current U.S.A.F. anti - G garment
but with smaller bladders. The Malaysian pilots (like U.S. pilots) tended to favor loose fitting G-Suits. The helmets appear archaic but are actually
extremely well designed, light in weight, comfortable with ports across the front in order to stabilize the head during high-speed ejection while preventing separation of the helmet from the head. There is one
shaded visor integral to the helmet while no visor is used at night. The mask is made of rubber backed leather with a hard plastic shell. The absence of valsalva ports is a common complaint among pilots. The mask is attached with unique bayonet clips, which allow the mask to hang loosely from the helmet but still in front of the face with the microphone in place. The mask can be quickly tightened by sliding the clips into place. Overall the mask is very comfortable to wear with the exception of performing a valsalva
I did not wear the helmet-mounted sight, but the pilots uniformly stated that the sight was lightweight and easy to operate after flipping a switch on the helmet. This helmet gives them a significant off bore site targeting capability. A mae-west style life preserver harness is worn, not dissimilar from the U.S. NavyÂ’s current fighter life vest. No survival vest or parachute harness is worn. The parachute harness is integrated into the
seat with two shoulder and two leg restraints which buckle into a four-way connector on the chest. The strap-in procedure is a complex one. The survival kit secures to a small D ring on the right leg of the G - suit. The helmet mounted sight electronics and helmet oxygen attach to a connector on the left leg strap. There is an additional connection to the helmet for the radio, which necessitates threading a wire through the harness. Emergency egress is facilitated by pulling a red tab on the oxygen connector which releases the helmet from all of its connections.
Additionally, two shoulder emergency release tabs must be unfastened and the survival kit disconnected from the G - suit. The seat is straight with good padding, however the design height places your eyes just above
the level of the cockpit rails creating the sensation that you are sitting in a bucket. Visibility is poor and rearward visibility is non existent with the exception of two rear view mirrors. The cockpit rails also slope down from aft to forward. This design gives the appearance of a sloping cloud deck or descent when in instrument meteorological conditions (IMC). The
cockpit has ample lateral room but the front to rear room is somewhat cramped. Placing the ejection handle (located between the legs) into a vertical position arms the ejection seat. The seats fire in order, back to front. There is an alternate ejection button in the front cockpit, which works as a backup should the handle fail but the canopy must be jettisoned first. The seat has two arm protectors that fall from the sides of the seat as well as a chest protector that rises from between the legs. Additionally, leg restraints secure the legs to the seat upon ejection.
The complete ejection system from seat to survive high-speed ejection. The seat has also proven itself in the low speed, low altitude and unusual attitude environment as evidenced during the MiG 29 crash at the Farnsborough Air Show.
COCKPIT INSTRUMENTS AND AVIONICS
The cockpit instrument layout is not ergonomically well designed. Some instruments are easily read while others are hard to interpret and not easily seen. The instruments are grouped by function withflight instruments on the left and engine instruments on the right. Flight instruments are “heads down” with the exception of the combined AOA / G meter which is located on the left top side of the dash. Heads up view
of angle of attack and G performance instruments may prevent onset of vestibular illusions while in acrobatic maneuvers. There is a heads up display (HUD) with airspeed and heading information. There is no HUD
repeater for the back seat rather the HUD symbology is displayed in a multiple function display (MFD, heads down display on the right). The attitude indicator (ADI) uses the ball for pitch information while the
plane symbol rotates to give bank information. The ADI aircraft symbol uses the bottom of the wings instead of the nose for flight attitude information. This makes it easy to read bank but difficult to read
pitch. Fuel level is transmitted via moving tapes, which are extremely easy to read. Navigation is via an after-market global positioning system (GPS) added to the jets. The GPS has been tied into the HUD for steering cues. The GPS mounting location on the right side of the dash diminishes the already limited visibility. The plane has also been retrofitted with
two aftermarket radios, which have been fitted into the left and right side consoles. Changing channels is a difficult proposition. It is only possible to transmit on one radio at a time. A separate switch must be thrown both radios may continuously receive transmissions. The intercom is triggered by a switch on the throttle or may be run in hot mike. There is a back up mode in case of failure. The two-seat MiG 29 is equipped with a back
seat periscope. The periscope is designed for back seat takeoffs and landings and is employed when the landing gear are down. The system is adjustable so that the image presented in front of you can be matched to peripheral horizon cues. Taxiing, takeoffs and landings from the backseat are made relatively easy using the color image presented on the periscope
mirror. This low technology device is simple but effective.
COCKPIT CONTROLS
The throttles are mounted on a straight rail, which is slightly awkward. The throttle grip also houses the radio switch, nose wheel steering mode
select (takeoff 6 deg of swing v. taxi mode 36 deg of swing) and speed brakes. The stick is of classic design with a damping mechanism. There is some free play at center requiring large control inputs. Perhaps the most unique feature of stick design is the “stick shaker” designed to remind the pilot to limit angle of attack (AOA). The gun trigger is of classic soviet design requiring a trigger guard to be flipped down to arm the gun. This is more awkward than the F-16 hands on throttle and stick (HOTAS) for the Air to Air mode but easier for the Air to Ground mode. The stick has a red autopilot button on the left and a green auto recovery switch on the right for the disoriented pilot, and works by pressing the green panic button. The system recovers the jet to wings level and places the airplane in a slight climb if energy is available. This system is known to be reliable
but is not often used. This is most likely due to the necessity of having to recognize that you are spatially disoriented prior to pushing the auto recovery button. The autopilot system can be coupled to the radio altimeter and instrument landing system (ILS) so that only throttle input is required to remain on glide slope. The plane has no toe brakes but instead uses a hand brake mounted on the stick. Feedback is limited
with the exception of a hard to see pressure gauge located near the bottom of the cockpit in front of the stick.
PHYSIOLOGY AND AEROMEDICAL ISSUES
The airplaneÂ’s performance is impressive. The plane loads GÂ’s smoothly, it is difficult to snatch to high G secondary to the center control stick and
increased throw distances as opposed to the F-16 in which the snatch to high G is overly easy and where you must work to insure that the G is blended. The Malaysian pilots use the L-1 grunt combined with a leg strain (combination of western and former soviet union methods) and get very limited formal anti G strain training. The Malaysians are due to get a centrifuge within the next year. The pilots almost universally complain of neck strain suffered secondary to pulling GÂ’s. (A handout on neck strain had been posted by one of the pilots in the pilot lounge. The pilots work
out as a group focusing on both weight training and aerobic conditioning.
All physicians in the Malaysian armed services belong to the army and
receive very limited aeromedical training. There are no dedicated flight surgeons and the aircrews have very little if any contact with the base physician. A formal human factors program is nonexistent. Human factors
training is limited to those topics suggested by the squadron safety officer.
The Malays work 6 days per week and usually spend the Saturday workday as a [sic].
LASER EYE SAFETY
The single biggest issue of concern when flying dissimilar air combat training (DACT) against the Malaysians is the use of their laser range finder. No formal testing has been published concerning its eye safety. The Germans recently disconnected their lasers due to eye safety concerns. The laser fires by default to range the opponent once the radar reaches certain parameters. The Malaysians restrict themselves to only
firing the laser behind the three-nine line. This reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of the way that lasers effect cockpits and refract energy. The MiG 29 squadron commander agreed to limit use of the laser after the squadron was briefed on the effects of laser eye damage. The same briefing prompted the pilots to voice a number of concerns regarding their own vision. Instructions were left with the squadron regarding the eye exams that would be required to definitively rule out laser eye damage. As the geo-political realities of the world continue to shift there is every possibility that U.S.A.F. aircrews will find themselves pitted against MiG 29Â’s in various exercises. The eye safe laser range should be calculated once the data regarding the laser range finderÂ’s physical properties is available.
CONCLUSION
In summary, the MiG 29 is truly an awesome, rugged, well-designed purpose built airplane. In the hands of a well-trained pilot and GCI the plane is a formidable foe. As nations outside the former Soviet Union
continue to buy the airplane they continue to expand its roles. This poses many challenges, as the airplane does not appear to be designed to adapt to a multi-role capability. The airplaneÂ’s design makes it apparent that the
designers gave great thought to pilot and airframe survivability. The airplane passes its western rivals in these aspects, however takes a back seat in terms of adaptability and ergonomics / task management.
Society of USAF Flight Surgeons. -
in summary....
1... The MiG 29N two-seat model is designed as a trainer and airborne emergency procedure simulator. This model is not equipped with radar
2... The MiG 29N was designed to be an air superiority fighter meant to be heavily dependent upon ground based intercept controllers (GCI).
3... I was lucky to be able to fly at all secondary to my near inability to fit into any of the available G-Suits (the average Malaysian appears to be slightly shorter than the average American). I ended up barely fitting into the largest one available
4... The mask is made of rubber backed leather with a hard plastic shell. The absence of valsalva ports is a common complaint among pilots.Overall the mask is very comfortable to wear with the exception of performing a valsalva
5... The complete ejection system from seat to survive high-speed ejection. The seat has also proven itself in the low speed, low altitude and unusual attitude environment as evidenced during the MiG 29 crash at the Farnsborough Air Show. (yeah... was that the MIG that lost one engine because a bird wanna take a closer look? 2 engine fulcrum also got knock out of the sky by a single bird....
)
6... The cockpit instrument layout is not ergonomically well designed. Some instruments are easily read while others are hard to interpret and not easily seen.
7... The throttles are mounted on a straight rail, which is slightly awkward.
8... The plane has no toe brakes but instead uses a hand brake mounted on the stick. Feedback is limited
with the exception of a hard to see pressure gauge located near the bottom of the cockpit in front of the stick.
9... The plane loads GÂ’s smoothly, it is difficult to snatch to high G secondary to the center control stick and
increased throw distances as opposed to the F-16 in which the snatch to high G is overly easy and where you must work to insure that the G is blended. The Malaysian pilots use the L-1 grunt combined with a leg strain (combination of western and former soviet union methods) and get very limited formal anti G strain training.
10... The pilots almost universally complain of neck strain suffered secondary to pulling G.All physicians in the Malaysian armed services belong to the army and
receive very limited aeromedical training. There are no dedicated flight surgeons and the aircrews have very little if any contact with the base physician. A formal human factors program is nonexistent. Human factors
training is limited to those topics suggested by the squadron safety officer.
11... The Malaysians restrict themselves to only
firing the laser behind the three-nine line. This reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of the way that lasers effect cockpits and refract energy. The MiG 29 squadron commander agreed to limit use of the laser after the squadron was briefed on the effects of laser eye damage. The same briefing prompted the pilots to voice a number of concerns regarding their own vision. Instructions were left with the squadron regarding the eye exams that would be required to definitively rule out laser eye damage.
everyone is a critic..... even the USAF laugh their ass off hahahahahahaa...... 
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Well said Tripwire.....to certain extend....i do agree with you on selected points you highlighted yet who do we should refer to when its comes to the MIG-29N......the mighty USAF guys who got god knows how many hours on fast jets (and degree on related stuffs)....or you...who could be some NS guys from Combat Engineers (eerrrr.....maybe just a security guard at Suncity)????
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of course the USAF guy....
he practically call your RMAF a cock up unprofessional, inexperience and ill equipped unit... which he will have loads of laughter to share with his pals back in the states.... muahahahaa.a... -
5... The complete ejection system from seat to survive high-speed ejection. The seat has also proven itself in the low speed, low altitude and unusual attitude environment as evidenced during the MiG 29 crash at the Farnsborough Air Show. (yeah... was that the MIG that lost one engine because a bird wanna take a closer look? 2 engine fulcrum also got knock out of the sky by a single bird.... )
Bird strike?I thought it was an engine flame out? -
nah...i remem is that a bird went in e fulcrum engine and out. choking it den *boom*Originally posted by |-|05|:Bird strike?I thought it was an engine flame out?
"bird wanted a closer look" -
Funny.....but in their report (as posted).....they seems to gave a balance and fair verdict on the 29N.....i dont recalled anything about " a cock up unprofessional " RMAF ever been used.....could you point it out to me please....maybe i miss itOriginally posted by tripwire:of course the USAF guy....
he practically call your RMAF a cock up unprofessional, inexperience and ill equipped unit... which he will have loads of laughter to share with his pals back in the states.... muahahahaa.a... .....but ofcourse...if you just made it all up based on your experience as a security guard.....well i do understand -
Don't mind tripwire, he's our resident ultranationalist.
The MiG-29N is definitely a very capable aircraft. While the author of the article does bring up some issues with training and support for the pilots, such as the lack of aeromedical specialists and training for multiple roles, I have no doubt they will be dealt with as the RMAF expands and modernizes. So good job and best wishes for the future.
Many of the posters on this forum do understand that Malaysia's armed forces are not solely aimed at Singapore, and that a healthy balance of power in the region is best for internal stability and external deterrence in the long run. Most also understand the need for critical and objective analysis of our neighbors' defense procurements and postures rather than jingoistic cheerleading. So don't mind the occasional angry responses you might get. While we do tend to be a little thin-skinned at times, most folk here do appreciate the information. -
Hi Harimau and welcome back. Been a long time since we last saw you.
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oi.... harimau.. check my post point 10 and point 11... RMAF looks damn amateurish to me....
and to that bugger who call me an ultranationalist... who thinks that RMAF will get better... you better think again...
because... with malaysia NS sucking big money out of their defence expenditure... its gonna take some real miracle to get more money for the RMAF regulars... especially since air force stuffs tends to be very expensive....
who knows... maybe malaysia NS programe would weaken MAF even further then it already is.... -
i'm not sure the Malaysian NS programe is pegged to the defence budget.And also note they usually say Military training not weapons training.And it's only for a few months or weeks i cant remember.Most likely they will be taught disapline more then firing weapons.Their training will most prob be physical conditioning,marching and respect instead of what we have.Originally posted by tripwire:oi.... harimau.. check my post point 10 and point 11... RMAF looks damn amateurish to me....
and to that bugger who call me an ultranationalist... who thinks that RMAF will get better... you better think again...
because... with malaysia NS sucking big money out of their defence expenditure... its gonna take some real miracle to get more money for the RMAF regulars... especially since air force stuffs tends to be very expensive....
who knows... maybe malaysia NS programe would weaken MAF even further then it already is.... -
even so.. ... cost is involved... money dont just grow on trees...
unless they intend to force the teens to pay for everything from clothings to food and to lodgeing... maybe the instructors fee as well as transport fee too??
else... the money must come from somewhere... malaysia aint exactly loaded with cash... and last i check... they still got 40 billion US dollar in debt they havent clear. -
Most likely comes from their Home Affairs budget and should not affect their military's spending budget much.And you wonder why the Singapore defence budget is so high huh?Originally posted by tripwire:even so.. ... cost is involved... money dont just grow on trees...
unless they intend to force the teens to pay for everything from clothings to food and to lodgeing... maybe the instructors fee as well as transport fee too??
else... the money must come from somewhere... malaysia aint exactly loaded with cash... and last i check... they still got 40 billion US dollar in debt they havent clear. -
if so... then the indonesian illegal immigrants will start taking over the police station....
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the debt which is still outstanding, i thought they can use their palm oil "strategy" to settle it?
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palm..oil..hmm, you mean grease some palms?Originally posted by Moonstriker:the debt which is still outstanding, i thought they can use their palm oil "strategy" to settle it? -
haha.. no..
the oil from those palm trees.. and also latex...
Thought they used these methods to pay for the MiGs?
they can also do it again -
aint that easy... first you gotta find that much palm oil to sell first...
and if you have... the more palm oil u push into the market... the lower your price fall... just like crude oil... why you think OPEC needs to set a production quota?
secondly... indonesia palm oil is very the cheap and is eating away at their market share...
lastly... consumption of palm oil is fairly inelastic... there is no such thing that if the palm oil prices drop 0.5... everyone would suddenly start drinkiing 2x more palm oil right? -
Tripwire.....kindly read mags like FEER,Economist or Business Times to get the correct and latest info on Malaysia palm oil industries.According to BT even Thailand market are monopolised by Malaysian company.....and new market are growing darn fast in India,China and the Middle East.....(do you know how many people in China use oil as their standard issue cooking must have???)
Malaysia own palm oil estates in Thailand,Indonesia (which you already mentioned are Malaysian owned -you could verify it via the internet) and Ghana.And since the last 12 months palms oils crude price (PORLA) has risen to the max!!!
So next time kindly check your facts right -
With the US dollar under stress, commodities and countries that export them are riding high. I guess palm oil is one of those.....Originally posted by HARIMAU:Tripwire.....kindly read mags like FEER,Economist or Business Times to get the correct and latest info on Malaysia palm oil industries.According to BT even Thailand market are monopolised by Malaysian company.....and new market are growing darn fast in India,China and the Middle East.....(do you know how many people in China use oil as their standard issue cooking must have???)
Malaysia own palm oil estates in Thailand,Indonesia (which you already mentioned are Malaysian owned -you could verify it via the internet) and Ghana.And since the last 12 months palms oils crude price (PORLA) has risen to the max!!!
So next time kindly check your facts right
Buy some Bionix lah......or ST can give tech transfer on M113 IFVs using our own turrets and armor upgrade.
SAR21 also cheap cheap
Also remember every single ST product is made with Malaysia in mind. So you can be assured they will work! -
the fact remains that malaysia still sits on a mountain of debt... palm oil or not ....
and malaysia dont own all the palm oil plantation....
lastly..,. palm oil aint the only oil in that market... -
For 1 the oil that China uses is mainly vege oil(sunflower,soya oil) or pork oil(lard)Originally posted by HARIMAU:Tripwire.....kindly read mags like FEER,Economist or Business Times to get the correct and latest info on Malaysia palm oil industries.According to BT even Thailand market are monopolised by Malaysian company.....and new market are growing darn fast in India,China and the Middle East.....(do you know how many people in China use oil as their standard issue cooking must have???)
Malaysia own palm oil estates in Thailand,Indonesia (which you already mentioned are Malaysian owned -you could verify it via the internet) and Ghana.And since the last 12 months palms oils crude price (PORLA) has risen to the max!!!
So next time kindly check your facts right
However i do agree that using palm oil is a very good idea as it prevents inflation of the ringgit.Because to pay you do not have to print more cash...all you do is use the oil.Like what the US is doing.By doing this you infact shield your economy frm a crash.It also allows you to buy more then you can afford and have a back up payment method. -
Bit off topic.....abt buying the Bionix.....i guess Sg wont sell it to us....at any cost....wanna bet??? And we already got the knowhow to manufacture (partly the least) the M113A3 familiy.ADNAN are much better than ULTRA with better armour,speed,firepower,BMS etc etc.BTW last LIMA Malaysian company signed a deal with a Swedish company (couldnt recalled names) to manufacture armour plates and stuffs for amoured vehicles.The company also manufacture plates for CV90.In short within a decade (to be safe) ....we'll be able to roll out our own AFV???
With regards with Malaysian debts and so on.....do you think the US dont sit on a pile of unsettled debts themselves???Kindly check ur facts right.....how mush do we owed and how much reserved do Malaysia got......talking abt reserved ur PM last few weeks when asked abt the national reserve (to help out the unemployed) replied something like this (check with ST)...."Our reserve aint that much.....already used half of it to bail out certain industrirs during the crisis......and we do not have the luxury of palm oil,rubber,gas....with out national reserve (money).....we're dead meat" -
Originally posted by HARIMAU:
This is a time to work together.....maybe LIMA can work with ST on ADNAN. We can share the work?
[b]Bit off topic.....abt buying the Bionix.....i guess Sg wont sell it to us....at any cost....wanna bet??? And we already got the knowhow to manufacture (partly the least) the M113A3 familiy.ADNAN are much better than ULTRA with better armour,speed,firepower,BMS etc etc.BTW last LIMA Malaysian company signed a deal with a Swedish company (couldnt recalled names) to manufacture armour plates and stuffs for amoured vehicles.The company also manufacture plates for CV90.In short within a decade (to be safe) ....we'll be able to roll out our own AFV??? [/B]
With regards with Malaysian debts and so on.....do you think the US dont sit on a pile of unsettled debts themselves???Kindly check ur facts right.....how mush do we owed and how much reserved do Malaysia got......talking abt reserved ur PM last few weeks when asked abt the national reserve (to help out the unemployed) replied something like this (check with ST)...."Our reserve aint that much.....already used half of it to bail out certain industrirs during the crisis......and we do not have the luxury of palm oil,rubber,gas....with out national reserve (money).....we're dead meat" Btw what is ADNAN's specs? Can share or not? Pics would be great too.
If we join forces, MAF will get their own AFV in 2 years! Together we can make a T-90 PTM&S world class MBT for tropical terrain. As far as I know, no such thing yet.
No need to work with other firms on armour plates, ST has a armour plate center working with materials that excel in humid environment.
I'm pretty sure Singapore will sell Bionix to MAF. ST can bring your F5s online easy. Fast and cheap cheap too.
Why not form a Brigade to do peacekeeping ops?