I've always wanted to ask this...
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just ignore him lor... he can be easily ignored 1 mah =D
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
he is just very much against christianity anyway... if u guys dun like then dun reply to him :)The problem is that such anti-Christian bigotry is irrational. I won't really bother to give long replies but I think at the very least I would make certain statements that exposes the irrationality which they mistook for intelligence.
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maybe irrationality is intelligence while rationality is stupidity simply cos we live in an irrational world?
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its jus a case of different perception... to u is irrationality and stupidity but to then it is rationality and intelligence
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Originally posted by despondent:
maybe irrationality is intelligence while rationality is stupidity simply cos we live in an irrational world?
I think that only applies to the atheist's worldview, since for them rationality is ultimately irrational since the cause of the universe was an accident. Only the Christian worldview supplies the preconditions for rationality and the intelligibility of the universe.
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eh im jus curious... u guys are born christians or converted christians?
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me converted...at age 17
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and are u going to follow up by asking why/wad made me convert? btw, actually nobody is a born christian...but i noe wad u mean...
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Originally posted by despondent:
against a God tat doesnt exist...doesnt tat mean against nothingness? so he is for existence? hmmm
what a load of rubbish coming from you people. utter nonsense. you call that logic, my foot? I have no iota of a clue what gibberish nonsense you are uttering. warped logic indeed
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
what a load of rubbish coming from you people. utter nonsense. you call that logic, my foot? I have no iota of a clue what gibberish nonsense you are uttering. warped logic indeed
Troll is hungry again?
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
eh im jus curious... u guys are born christians or converted christians?
Me became a Christian at age 10.
Born human. LOL!
Anyway, as despondent said, no one can truly claim to be a born Christian, or a born Buddhist, or a born-whatever-religion. No one is born programmed with a set of religious beliefs!
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yes n no...i believe everyone is born wif a conscience tat inscribes the general law...but if u are referring to strictly religious teachings outside of the general law which people universally agree upon, then yes u r rite...i tink wad destiny meant was are we from non-christian or christian family? my case abit complicated...i came from non-christian family, converted at 17 but now i come from christian family...:)
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Originally posted by despondent:
yes n no...i believe everyone is born wif a conscience tat inscribes the general law...but if u are referring to strictly religious teachings outside of the general law which people universally agree upon, then yes u r rite...i tink wad destiny meant was are we from non-christian or christian family? my case abit complicated...i came from non-christian family, converted at 17 but now i come from christian family...:)
That is true. We are moral beings. And the Bible supplies the true reason why we are moral beings with conscience. God made us in His image. -
Originally posted by despondent:
yes n no...i believe everyone is born wif a conscience tat inscribes the general law...but if u are referring to strictly religious teachings outside of the general law which people universally agree upon, then yes u r rite...i tink wad destiny meant was are we from non-christian or christian family? my case abit complicated...i came from non-christian family, converted at 17 but now i come from christian family...:)
ya i guess wad i shld be asking is whether u are frm christian or non christian family... i still support being a free thinker! :) -
Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
ya i guess wad i shld be asking is whether u are frm christian or non christian family... i still support being a free thinker! :)What do you as a freethinkier believe about:
1. Where do we come from? The question of origins
2. Why are we here? The question of purpose and meaning in life
3. How do we live? The question of morality
4. Where are we going? The question of final destiny
5. How do we know what we know? The question of epistemology
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
What do you as a freethinkier believe about:
1. Where do we come from? The question of origins
2. Why are we here? The question of purpose and meaning in life
3. How do we live? The question of morality
4. Where are we going? The question of final destiny
5. How do we know what we know? The question of epistemology
LOL... u give me so much questions =.=
Well... i believe that i came from my mum... and i believe in evolution so we probably came from apes. No offense but i never ever believed in something known as god created the world.
Why are we here... i never thought of that at all.
How do we live, to do good stuffs and be good to ppl... basically all i ask for is a clear conscience in everything then enough already.
Where im going after i die... not sure though... haven been there to tell anything yet. And i stand by the "not even able to handle my current life well, why wld i want to think of afterlife so soon?"
How do we know wad we know? i've got no ans to that =D
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
LOL... u give me so much questions =.=
Well... i believe that i came from my mum... and i believe in evolution so we probably came from apes. No offense but i never ever believed in something known as god created the world.
Why are we here... i never thought of that at all.
How do we live, to do good stuffs and be good to ppl... basically all i ask for is a clear conscience in everything then enough already.
Where im going after i die... not sure though... haven been there to tell anything yet. And i stand by the "not even able to handle my current life well, why wld i want to think of afterlife so soon?"
How do we know wad we know? i've got no ans to that =D
The questions I gave are questions that every worldview must answer for, conherently and consistently, adequately and that matches well with reality. If a worldview is unable to provide good answers to these questions, then that worldview should not be embraced. Whether you think about these things or not are besides the point, really. If you haven't thought of them, then perhaps you should give some thought to it. If you hold to a belief that is not defensible, then it is irrational to hold on to it. It is also a BLIND faith. So let's see how you fare, shall we?
1. You believe in evolution. That we came from apes. But apes come from where? Let's pull back even further. What is the cause of the universe since it has a beginning? Evolution cannot help you here because if there is no universe there is no evolution to speak of. So either the universe is uncaused, self-caused, or created. Take your pick.
2. Isn't it strange that you would get up from bed every morning and go about your daily yet never thought about WHY you are doing what you are doing at all? Humans are purposeful beings, we seek purpose and meaning in what we do. But why are we like that? Please think about it. Can evolution give meaning and purpose to life? Remember, Richard Dawkins said evolution is "blind pittiless indifference". So I wonder why he bothers to get out of bed every day!
3. To seek a good conscience is commendable. But why be good? Evolution is not about being good, it's about survival. You do what you can to survive, it's a dog-eat-dog world, if evolution is true. The idea of a moral good or evil has no basis in evolution. Why are we moral beings? Where does the conscience come from? To do good presupposes a moral standard of measuring morality. What's your standard? Who sets the standard? Why is that standard the standard?
4. Human beings are not animals who just live for the moment. No one does that. Even people who CHOOSE to live for the moment suppresses the need to think about the future. And just because you have not thought about it, and does not want to think about it, does not mean the question is thereby answered. It is merely avoided. Again, can your worldview provide an answer?
5. The question of how we know what we know is something we deal with everyday. We ask questions like "How you know this is true? How do you know this? Why do you trust your senses?" Why is the universe intelligible at all, and why are humans capable of exploring the universe? Can evolution provide the tools for rationality? How so?
From your prelimary answers I can dare say that, at the risk of offending you, that you are more a NON-thinker than a free-thinker. Not only are you unable to defend your belief system, you don't really think about why you even believe anything. It seems also that you blindly accept that evolution is fact, but then again you do not seem to know much about evolution. As it is said, an unexamined life is not worth living. I urge you then, to take time to think through your own beliefs, and hopefully you would find that only Christianity supplies the best and true answers to these questions. I have made that conclusion after examining my faith. I can say that I am an intellectually fulfilled theist.
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well... i honestly do not think christianity offers the best answers for all that. and is not that im not thinking and i feel that some questions do not have the answer. Being a free thinker to me is very simple... i just means i do not subscribe to any form of religious beliefs. Purpose of meanings and life can come from oneself and in within. thats just what i feel, do not personally tink that im a non thinker. Perhaps you felt so, because at times i feel some ppl are a blind thinker too. I've been taking time to look through me own beliefs and christianity cannot answer the questions i have nor can it convince me. Furthermore i do not wish to blindly believe on a resurrection which cannot be proven much as i do not believe in afterlife. You raised me so much questions, but as to life now, how much of those questions are important? To u mayb but not to me bro. I can't be bothered about afterlife, neither would i be interested to know who created the world or that i wld eventually be with him. For doing good, what sets good and what set the standard, my own conscience sets it and i derive it from seeing things around me. Probably you will see it as avoiding but well i wld jus not want to question too much into everything. And if u can mayb explain to me how is it that evolution has no basis in moral good or evil?
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oh ya... point to note... for me not everything has to be defensive about... especially for beliefs... everyone has a different set of beliefs, why wld i want to defend my beliefs when ppl who question my beliefs are ppl who has other beliefs or different beliefs from me. I don't need them to have the same beliefs as me anyway... ppl can question/criticise all they want. If im not fearful of it, i wld even have to be bothered by all those.
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and how come BIC u like no nid work 1... can keep online... like shiok =D
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
well... i honestly do not think christianity offers the best answers for all that. and is not that im not thinking and i feel that some questions do not have the answer. Being a free thinker to me is very simple... i just means i do not subscribe to any form of religious beliefs. Purpose of meanings and life can come from oneself and in within. thats just what i feel, do not personally tink that im a non thinker. Perhaps you felt so, because at times i feel some ppl are a blind thinker too. I've been taking time to look through me own beliefs and christianity cannot answer the questions i have nor can it convince me. Furthermore i do not wish to blindly believe on a resurrection which cannot be proven much as i do not believe in afterlife. You raised me so much questions, but as to life now, how much of those questions are important? To u mayb but not to me bro. I can't be bothered about afterlife, neither would i be interested to know who created the world or that i wld eventually be with him. For doing good, what sets good and what set the standard, my own conscience sets it and i derive it from seeing things around me. Probably you will see it as avoiding but well i wld jus not want to question too much into everything. And if u can mayb explain to me how is it that evolution has no basis in moral good or evil?
But how do you honestly think that Christianity does not offer the best answers when you admitted that you don't think much about these questions? How do you even evaluate Christianity's answers? By what criteria? In comparison with what? How do you know that the questions have no answers?
While being a free-thinker may mean no official religious affiliation, it does not mean that you have no beliefs whatsoever. Even if you think that you make up your own meaning in life, you still need to justify why you do that, in view of ultimate pitiless indifference.
I concluded you were more a non-thinker because you admitted such in your answers. If you felt Christianity does not offer you the answers, you must at least have good reasons why your CURRENT beliefs are better answers, or why the Christian answers are wrong.
On what basis do you say that the resurrection is a blind belief? Have you considered the evidences and reasons for believing it is true? Lawyers like Frank Morrison and Simon Greenleaf has examined the resurrection and concluded it happened, and that was no blind belief.
The questions I raised are the questions that are being asked in standard books on philosophy. They are considered IMPORTANT and essential questions of life by philosophers. Again if you are not bothered by them, it does not mean they are not important in themselves. One can be apathetic towards certain topics but that speaks more of themselves than the subject matter.
Lastly, evolution supplies no basis for morality, simply because it is about survival, not morality.
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
oh ya... point to note... for me not everything has to be defensive about... especially for beliefs... everyone has a different set of beliefs, why wld i want to defend my beliefs when ppl who question my beliefs are ppl who has other beliefs or different beliefs from me. I don't need them to have the same beliefs as me anyway... ppl can question/criticise all they want. If im not fearful of it, i wld even have to be bothered by all those.
Well, it's one thing to say you do not wish to defend your beliefs, if you actually can, and quite another thing if you really CANNOT defend your beliefs. Because if you CANNOT defend your beliefs, then there is no good reason to hold on to them, how is that any different from having blind faith? How does that make you any different from the people that you criticise as believing blindly?
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well.. i actually can defend.. but just choose not to =D. u see ur point is that if a belief cannot be defended then it is either not a belief or that there is no good reason to hold on to it. But i see it differently, i feel that personal beliefs are not things that needs to be defended upon. Ppl are free to say to think to cricticise, and if i do not weaver in my own thoughts and beliefs, why would i even need to defend it. The more open a heart is the less i need to defend myself.
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Originally posted by [imdestinyz]:
well... i honestly do not think christianity offers the best answers for all that. and is not that im not thinking and i feel that some questions do not have the answer. Being a free thinker to me is very simple... i just means i do not subscribe to any form of religious beliefs. Purpose of meanings and life can come from oneself and in within. thats just what i feel, do not personally tink that im a non thinker. Perhaps you felt so, because at times i feel some ppl are a blind thinker too. I've been taking time to look through me own beliefs and christianity cannot answer the questions i have nor can it convince me. Furthermore i do not wish to blindly believe on a resurrection which cannot be proven much as i do not believe in afterlife. You raised me so much questions, but as to life now, how much of those questions are important? To u mayb but not to me bro. I can't be bothered about afterlife, neither would i be interested to know who created the world or that i wld eventually be with him. For doing good, what sets good and what set the standard, my own conscience sets it and i derive it from seeing things around me. Probably you will see it as avoiding but well i wld jus not want to question too much into everything. And if u can mayb explain to me how is it that evolution has no basis in moral good or evil?
you are spot on. the answers given by xtianity is just too simple, not to mention irrational and incoherent explanations. you have done well to question these rightly so. in fact their explanations given are so nonsensical if you are to proble further. well done.
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Originally posted by Jacky Woo:
you are spot on. the answers given by xtianity is just too simple, not to mention irrational and incoherent explanations. you have done well to question these rightly so. in fact their explanations given are so nonsensical if you are to proble further. well done.
Projecting again Jacky? You were UNABLE and INCOMPETENT to defend even one of your atheistic beliefs. Duh.