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  • the_fallen's Avatar
    1,883 posts since Aug '06
    • If anyone has got questions to MLM in general, I'll see to the best of my limit to answer questions related to mlm.

      Note: I mention mlm as a whole, not targeted to any mlm companies. Just want to understand and find out more on why people have queries and doubts about mlm.

      Disclaimer: Like in previous thread, any questions which is related to industry practice/secrets will be classified unless it's general FAQs.

      Thank you everybody for your continuous support in reading and posting questions to clarify where we can learn from one another.

      In particular to the recently expired thread http://sgforums.com/forums/14/topics/359405 where I deemed to have clarified majority of the key questions addressing complaints, thus there's no need for me to keep the thread active knowing it has being address.

      Moving forward, if anybody have any questions: Kindly avoid posting/specifying company name. As a general guide & purpose of this thread is to help everybody and not anyone particular person. 

      Lastly, if anybody has any urgent matters you like to seek clarification, feel free to Private Message me if it requires you to mention company name or if you require inputs or an neutral opinion from a 3rd person.

      Experience Update: I've since switch industry and upgraded myself to business from Franchise (Network Marketing) industry for a more holistic experience to remain relevant with real-life businesses to render my support to the public while keeping myself updated. 

       

      I've recently created a new WhatsApp group to discuss on Multi-Level Marketing & related topics.

      If anyone is interested to join, kindly PM me asking for WhatsApp group invite and I'll reply with the link so that I keep this forum thread neutral, helpful and benefits general public.

      Here's a simple summary of what's we discuss inside the WhatsApp group discussion.

       

      Sharing of respective MLM experience (group sharing)

       

      1. Company names are encouraged in there (so one person's tuition fee/experience is shared with others) so nobody repeats the mistake again. (save your hard earned money)
      2. You can ask any industry relevant questions and replies will usually be provided within 1 day or less (usually within Minutes if not slowest within same day) if there's a question that requires an answer to.
      3. Group is meant for discussion, not a group to spam your company ads, look for prospects (so if anybody has it, it would be wise not to join, else you'll be removed in time).

      Updated 09 May 2017

      Edited by the_fallen 09 May `17, 1:58AM
  • ls-tOrMeNt's Avatar
    214 posts since Mar '07
    • hello.

      im new to this MLM thing but i've been "invited" to join Amway as an IBO by my friend.i've been to their meeting and they've all looked pretty enthusiastic and of course, used the Robert Kiyosaki model. However im still doubtful about this MLM thingy and my parents dun want me to join cuz they think its a scam.

      Any useful opinions or suggestions would you have for me in this case?

      Thanks in advance (:

       

  • Pietro's Avatar
    1 post since Jan '10
    • Hi,

      I recently joined an MLM company called LFI so I'm still quite new for this...I understand that MLM is based on the below 3 principles:

      1. Leverage (of Time and Money)
      2. Residual Income
      3. Geometric Growth Through Duplication

      However, if that is the case, due to the case of leveraging, wouldn't a team member be able to earn money without doing anything since his other team members are doing something? And as the team grows, so does his income?

      Apologies if I misunderstood anything...but I just wanna clear some of my doubts since I'm still quite new...

      Thank you! (:

  • the_fallen's Avatar
    1,883 posts since Aug '06
    • Originally posted by ls-tOrMeNt:

      hello.

      im new to this MLM thing but i've been "invited" to join Amway as an IBO by my friend.i've been to their meeting and they've all looked pretty enthusiastic and of course, used the Robert Kiyosaki model. However im still doubtful about this MLM thingy and my parents dun want me to join cuz they think its a scam.

      Any useful opinions or suggestions would you have for me in this case?

      Thanks in advance (:

       

      Can you elaborate on the IBO?

      A general thumb of rule applies if you're clueless and unsure of the MLM industry.

      The most reliable evidence is to request your friend or introducer to show you his/her personal monthly pay-cheque of which either shows constant if not increasing income with time.

      A standard benchmark is at least 3 months. As there are companies whereby they maxmize a company event for promotion purpose. If under normal situation without any company help, he/she should be able to still perform and generate results before you join them in the organization.

      The safest guideline is 6 months, the average period required for any sales distributors to get from positive to negative. So if they pass this 3-6 months pay-cheque evidence, chances are they (the people who show you the cheques) know what they are doing.

      As for the scam part, if it's a scam, I would not be learning about MLM, and neither will the super-wealthy businessmen adopting this approach in respective companies.

      Just ask anyone, if we want to be rich, who do we follow? Beggers or Successful Leaders? Example: How often do you hear people say investing in stocks will help you get richer? Often right? This is a typical example of the majority trying to copy if not follow what the super-rich are doing, but going into the stock exchange.

      I hope that answers your question.

    • Originally posted by Pietro:

      Hi,

      I recently joined an MLM company called LFI so I'm still quite new for this...I understand that MLM is based on the below 3 principles:

      1. Leverage (of Time and Money)
      2. Residual Income
      3. Geometric Growth Through Duplication

      However, if that is the case, due to the case of leveraging, wouldn't a team member be able to earn money without doing anything since his other team members are doing something? And as the team grows, so does his income?

      Apologies if I misunderstood anything...but I just wanna clear some of my doubts since I'm still quite new...

      Thank you! (:

      If you do not have any intention of working hard, than I suggest you leave quietly, find your own ways to get rich. The most suitable way for you presently based on your thinking is only possible by investments, by just pumping in lots of captial in any funds, bonds, investment plans, than only will you be able to sit back, relax and reap the fruits of other people's labor with some risk involved.

      If you want your income to grow, learn and work together with your team members, do what they do, but don't resort to trickery, over-promising and other negative practices which will cause you to lose your personal creditability among your friends and family.

      If you are looking for residual income, you need to have a base of loyal customers buying the products on a regular basis, so that you can earn the commission every month.

      Word of advice, who ever is guiding you the above three principles either lacks the basic understanding of a genuine business or maybe he didn't go in-depth to allow you to understand the real essence of a real business. If it's not the two options, than he/she just is lacking in the required education and knowledge of running a MLM group which is difficult than running a small job of employees at work.

      Either you find another person who can answers and clarify your queries with ease, or seek a better mentor who has being there, done that, and learn from that person directly if you can. If not seek other methods of self-increasing your knowledge.

  • Herzog_Zwei's Avatar
    8,208 posts since Jul '06
    • Originally posted by the_fallen:

      If you do not have any intention of working hard, than I suggest you leave quietly, find your own ways to get rich. The most suitable way for you presently based on your thinking is only possible by investments, by just pumping in lots of captial in any funds, bonds, investment plans, than only will you be able to sit back, relax and reap the fruits of other people's labor with some risk involved.

      If you want your income to grow, learn and work together with your team members, do what they do, but don't resort to trickery, over-promising and other negative practices which will cause you to lose your personal creditability among your friends and family.

      If you are looking for residual income, you need to have a base of loyal customers buying the products on a regular basis, so that you can earn the commission every month.

      Word of advice, who ever is guiding you the above three principles either lacks the basic understanding of a genuine business or maybe he didn't go in-depth to allow you to understand the real essence of a real business. If it's not the two options, than he/she just is lacking in the required education and knowledge of running a MLM group which is difficult than running a small job of employees at work.

      Either you find another person who can answers and clarify your queries with ease, or seek a better mentor who has being there, done that, and learn from that person directly if you can. If not seek other methods of self-increasing your knowledge.

      As usual, some people can only grow their network in certain times of the year and thus rely on their partners shoal up the rest of the year. But firstly, MLM is about the products. Even if Robert is recommending it, if the products sucks, then you should never join the MLM company.

  • the_fallen's Avatar
    1,883 posts since Aug '06
    • Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:

      As usual, some people can only grow their network in certain times of the year and thus rely on their partners shoal up the rest of the year. But firstly, MLM is about the products. Even if Robert is recommending it, if the products sucks, then you should never join the MLM company.

      Bingo, that's right but it depends on which level you are on.

      Individuals who wants to learn the business model and ride on the success of a MLM company will look at the products, which is for people who just started not long ago.

      Ultimately, it's all about sales, and without sales, the company will not have any business.

      But there are many other consideration factors to look into before deciding if that individual wants to commit to doing MLM or not.

      For businessmen, there's a lot more factors to consider than just looking at the products. There's more to it than the products.

      Here's an advice for starters: A basic level general rule, never join any business that doesn't focus of sales of products and training. Without product sales, there will be no income for the company and the distributors.

    • any other questions from anybody who would like to have their questions or doubts answered?

      I will only answer general questions, questions deem trade secrets will be revealed if you know the trade secrets as well, but only via PM if you really know your stuff.

    • any body else who got questions on mlm in general that you would like to have them answered but don't know who to ask?

  • copenhagen's Avatar
    11 posts since Aug '08
  • the_fallen's Avatar
    1,883 posts since Aug '06
    • Originally posted by copenhagen:

      how do i join an MLM, and can I earn big bucks?

      thank you.

      to join an MLM, just find any mlm company distributors and i'm sure they will be more than happy to show you around and tell you why you should join them..

      as for earning big bucks in mlm (if that's what you're referring to)..my answer is 50/50..it depends on how patient you are..and it is not a overnight success..but it is still possible with hard work and persistance.

  • Kaziac kasmadi's Avatar
    4 posts since May '10
  • the_fallen's Avatar
    1,883 posts since Aug '06
    • Originally posted by Kaziac kasmadi:

      Seriously, what are the advantages and disadvantages about joining LFI?

      eh..that's a generalised question as a matter of fact.

      ask any LFI agents/walk to their office/HQ and I'm sure you will have all the answers to the advantages..

      as for the disadvantages..just read the other threads about LFI specifically and you should be able to find informationy you need.

      just simply use the Search Function on top found in the header of the webpage..

      PS: read my first thread post..i will answer general questions on mlm as a whole and not specfically tarageted at any mlm company in case of being bias to any mlm company.

      however although i can't answer that question of yours in this thread..but i can something presume that the reason you're asking that question is because you're considering joining them..

      how about you think of it this way..

      whatever you do in life, studies, work, business..you work for yourself and results..whatever company you work for is not important..so technically, you don't need to worry about the technical aspects..you just need to understand and know what you want in life and is getting yourself into that matters..

      it's about you, not the company. (you reap what you sow, so choose wisely and make a informed decision.)

      i hope it helps in facilitating your thoughts/planning process.

  • crus's Avatar
    24 posts since Nov '09
    • Please get your facts right. The Company you mentioned above starting with the Letter - L is not a Multi Level Marketing Co. Its a PYRAMID SCHEME Co.

      It just "cleverly" disguise their scheme with very common products found at watsons, with distributors going around claiming that the Co. manufactured them. Total rubbish.

      Advice for people, if you hate your money or for whatever reason do not want to see your money anymore, go ahead and join them.

      Though structures of MLM and Pyramid looks the same, operationally and income wise, there is a huge number of difference. Pyramid scheme Co. is an empty Company with nothing inside. Only the outside looks spectacular.

  • dangerboi's Avatar
    1,900 posts since Dec '06
    • Originally posted by crus:

      Please get your facts right. The Company you mentioned above starting with the Letter - L is not a Multi Level Marketing Co. Its a PYRAMID SCHEME Co.

      It just "cleverly" disguise their scheme with very common products found at watsons, with distributors going around claiming that the Co. manufactured them. Total rubbish.

      Advice for people, if you hate your money or for whatever reason do not want to see your money anymore, go ahead and join them.

      Though structures of MLM and Pyramid looks the same, operationally and income wise, there is a huge number of difference. Pyramid scheme Co. is an empty Company with nothing inside. Only the outside looks spectacular.

      well..elaborate more on the differences between mlm and pyramid (scheme) then...

    • What about venture era? Is this a mlm company?  icon_twisted.gif

  • crus's Avatar
    24 posts since Nov '09
    • MLM is a business model / marketing strategy.

      Pyramid scheme is a money game, nothing more than an evil cycle.

      One very notable difference between MLM and Pyramid Scheme is, Pyramid schemes agents draw a significant amount of money from the recruitment of new "victims" into their scheme whereby MLM direct salesperson does not get paid a single cent from the recruitment.

      Main source of income for MLM is based on their products or services. Pyramid's main income comes from recruitment, which will definitely reach saturation.

      Theres another very unclear or rather ambiguous point I just noticed. Pyramid's have more than one packages. Package A, B, C, D so on so fourth. If your company is good enough, theres no need for so much package. Of course thats from my point of view.

      I do not know about Venture Era. If the agents do earn commission from the joining fee by recruiting the new members then it is DEFINITELY PYRAMID. But even if its a MLM company, why do you want to join it?

      They're selling stuffs like magnetic bed(crap), magnetic bracelet(crap), air purifier and other wierd nutritional supplements. One very important point to note is, your product's package got to be impressive or at least appeals to consumer to win their most basics of trust. What if you got an air purifier that looks like a radio?

      One last point to note, pyramid is ILLEGAL and MLM is perfectly legitimate.

      To clear your own doubts about the company, you should check if that particular MLM company is a DSAS ( Direct Sales Association of Singapore ) registered one. Because Direct sales and MLM goes hand in hand. Look at LFI, its doing direct sales yet not even a DSAS registered company. Sounds fishy?

      Lastly, DSAS is approved by the Singapore Ministry of Trade.

  • the_fallen's Avatar
    1,883 posts since Aug '06
    •  

      Originally posted by crus:

      Please get your facts right. The Company you mentioned above starting with the Letter - L is not a Multi Level Marketing Co. Its a PYRAMID SCHEME Co.

      It just "cleverly" disguise their scheme with very common products found at watsons, with distributors going around claiming that the Co. manufactured them. Total rubbish.

      Advice for people, if you hate your money or for whatever reason do not want to see your money anymore, go ahead and join them.

      Though structures of MLM and Pyramid looks the same, operationally and income wise, there is a huge number of difference. Pyramid scheme Co. is an empty Company with nothing inside. Only the outside looks spectacular.

      If you have lawfully legal documents to state your claim, than write it clearly to us. If you have nothing, don't attempt to MISLEAD the readers here my thread who I sincerely is trying to help by answering their questions.

      If you want to know what companies are termed as Pyramid in Govt eyes, than you should be up their emailing list whenever a new company is being blacklisted by Govt.

      I got an regular emails from them frequently and when SE was blacklisted some time back, they even highlighted the company in the email.

      To date I have yet to have any email with regards to that company.

      If you are unsure, ask, don't claim that you know the facts when in fact you know nothing!

      If you want to join the list of the Govt email list, I can tell you and share with the rest via thread reply or post, but don't you try to MISLEAD the readers here in my post.

       

    • Originally posted by dangerboi:

      What about venture era? Is this a mlm company?  icon_twisted.gif


      VE is a MLM Company.

    • Originally posted by crus:

      MLM is a business model / marketing strategy.

      Pyramid scheme is a money game, nothing more than an evil cycle.

      One very notable difference between MLM and Pyramid Scheme is, Pyramid schemes agents draw a significant amount of money from the recruitment of new "victims" into their scheme whereby MLM direct salesperson does not get paid a single cent from the recruitment.

      Main source of income for MLM is based on their products or services. Pyramid's main income comes from recruitment, which will definitely reach saturation.

      Theres another very unclear or rather ambiguous point I just noticed. Pyramid's have more than one packages. Package A, B, C, D so on so fourth. If your company is good enough, theres no need for so much package. Of course thats from my point of view.

      I do not know about Venture Era. If the agents do earn commission from the joining fee by recruiting the new members then it is DEFINITELY PYRAMID. But even if its a MLM company, why do you want to join it?

      They're selling stuffs like magnetic bed(crap), magnetic bracelet(crap), air purifier and other wierd nutritional supplements. One very important point to note is, your product's package got to be impressive or at least appeals to consumer to win their most basics of trust. What if you got an air purifier that looks like a radio?

      One last point to note, pyramid is ILLEGAL and MLM is perfectly legitimate.

      To clear your own doubts about the company, you should check if that particular MLM company is a DSAS ( Direct Sales Association of Singapore ) registered one. Because Direct sales and MLM goes hand in hand. Look at LFI, its doing direct sales yet not even a DSAS registered company. Sounds fishy?

      Lastly, DSAS is approved by the Singapore Ministry of Trade.

       

      Based on your FLAWED explain and presective reply.

      If that is your definition of pyramid, than I suppose all sales companies are considered Pyramid already since they (sales personnels) mostly/majority do get commission for recruitment/selling a new packaage to a new/existing client.

      Below are the reasons why:

      Pyramid: Agents in such companies sell policys and paper contracts with no physical products. Example>> Swiss Cash

      MLM/Sales Personnels in shopping centers: They do get paid either basic/ commission if not both when a new client is being recruited into the company.

      Definition of recruitment in Sales Terms: Recruitment is considered when a package of products, services and memberships are sold to a new client.

      If you say MLM don't earn any cent from recruitment, than that is not valid as MLM agents have NO BASIC!

      In order to make money from commission based employments for example: Car/Property/Insurance/Financial related salesmen, they need to sell a unit inorder get paid a certain percentage.

      Sales of a product is consider a recruitment, because in this case, the new client is now being written into the company's database and will be kept updated for any new products that will be lauched in future.

      Another example: Even if you aren't a member, you will still get yearly updates of new pricing/products from Courts/IKEA because they don't need database to their business nature. They just pay others to deliver the yearly new product information to either our Letter-Box if not Door-to-Door.

      Your understanding of MLM VS Pyramid is flawed and bias with a narrow view point.

      Just go out shopping, notice the difference between Slimming consultants and those regular food store helpers..

      The former is super sincere and keen in providing quality and excellent service to ensure you return back for more and goes back to the same consultant. This way, they get a commission again each time you sign/pay for the products and services.

      The latter just don't really offer any service, in fact food-courts, bakery/confectionary stores are DIY basis, You choose products you want, queue up and pay and take your leave.

      The difference in service standards are why there is such a thing for Commission Basis employments.

      From what I understand based on your post, you seems to be against Pyramid but do accept MLM in a way. Below are only the few reasons to why I think your reply is in this way.

      1) You have previously being scam/tricked by a ponzi scheme/scam company

      2) You have nasty experience with LFI; it could be your personal or your friends used wrong methods on you or your friends told/share over discussion about their experiences with this company.

      3) Why you still agree that MLM is legal is the fact that either you have friends who are still in MLM if not you yourself is currently in another MLM company.

      BTW: I did mention mention in my starting thread post to talk/discuss about general questions and avoid pin-pointing a company in particular, but you still did what is considered a "No" as written in the first post of this thread.

      So obviously, you have some unpleasant experiences with this LFI in particular. Get to the root of the problem instead of plainly flamming without addressing the issue.

      Gentle Reminder: Kindly avoid listing company names, and this is to answer general questions and NOT FOR PEOPLE WITH ILL-INTENTIONS TO START FLAMMING REPLIES TO SPREAD FALSE NEWS OF OTHER COMPANIES AS SHOW IN ABOVE EXAMPLE.

      Lastly, if you don't know about DSAS, check the website and ask what are the requirements to be considered as a DSAS registered company. If you don't know, ask, don't complain that they are not registered whatsoever when you don't even have a clear clue as to the requirements for DSAS requirement.

      In layman terms: DSAS is like a registry similar to GEMS (go the extra mile recognition) in Service line meant to give awards to deserving companies/employees who have done their part, are establised and well trained etc..with the case that GEMS applies only to service industries whereas DSAS is exclusively for MLM Companies.

      DSAS is just a registry (not compulsory) for MLM companies. It is just a additional recognition like a certification that you have being awarded for this that etc..Even Singapore public Toilets also have the OK sign etc which is a recognition for the hygiene etc..Getting it is good and will help in business, but business can do without it do.

      With or without DSAS registered company, business still goes. The earth don't stop rotating just because there is small landslide whatsoever right?

       

      FYI: If you got anything against any mlm agents and you like to share their underhand misleading tatics, feel free to write them in another post http://www.sgforums.com/forums/14/topics/359405 than I'll address to that issue in there.

      Edited by the_fallen 09 Jun `10, 3:09PM
  • crus's Avatar
    24 posts since Nov '09
    • My explanation is not flawed. I'm not in any MLMs or Pyramids.

      I'm not here to mislead for your information.

       If you think my explanation is flawed, yours is flawed too.

      I do not need to flame LFI here. LFI already has a bad enough name out there.

      By the way, how much you earned from recruiting new members into LFI? ^^

  • the_fallen's Avatar
    1,883 posts since Aug '06
    • Originally posted by crus:

      My explanation is not flawed. I'm not in any MLMs or Pyramids.

      I'm not here to mislead for your information.

       If you think my explanation is flawed, yours is flawed too.

      I do not need to flame LFI here. LFI already has a bad enough name out there.

      By the way, how much you earned from recruiting new members into LFI? ^^

      If you have no intention of misleading, than start your own thread post(s).

      If you're in my thread posting replies, than I only value helpful/insightful information.

      If you're not here to flame, than explain your thread post above.

      Don't assume or make wild guess if you know nothing.

      Since you are not in anyway related to MLM/Pyramid, that means you know nothing about the business, operations and procedures, so don't write information which is completely invalid since you said it yourself. (Yet claiming your reply is not flawed.)

  • dazhutou's Avatar
    54 posts since Jan '07
  • the_fallen's Avatar
    1,883 posts since Aug '06
    • Originally posted by dazhutou:

      people who fail in business are those who quit the business..

      isn't that a general knowledge? Moreover, there are lots of reasons why people fail in business. That statement is just a sterotyping the majority only.

  • dazhutou's Avatar
    54 posts since Jan '07
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