Suggestions needed.
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Hi linchiling,Originally posted by linchiling:Thanks to all for the overwhelming response!
Frankly speaking... I need to refer to the dummies guide of Buddhism (if there's one)... Definitions such as yanas, Sravakas, Pratyeka etc are making my head spin... 
So pardon me if I take a longer time to response and ask questions... I'm still at the apprentice level compared to the masters here!
Meanwhile, keep the sharing alive!! Thanks to all! 
In fact there ARE really Idiots' Guide to Buddhism and Buddhism for Dummies, saw them at Borders before *faintz*
Anyway, I think by reading up more on the basic buddhist books that explained on the fundalmental principles and perhaps read on history of buddhism will help.
Remember Faith leades to Understanding; and Understanding enhances one's Faith. =) -
No la.. there is no masters here..Originally posted by linchiling:Thanks to all for the overwhelming response! Frankly speaking... I need to refer to the dummies guide of Buddhism (if there's one)... Definitions such as yanas, Sravakas, Pratyeka etc are making my head spin...
So pardon me if I take a longer time to response and ask questions... I'm still at the apprentice level compared to the masters here! Meanwhile, keep the sharing alive!! Thanks to all!
But it'll be a good idea to get some introductory books to Buddhism. -
hey Yamizi , i have the dummies guide to Buddhism ,who wants to borrow from me ?Originally posted by yamizi:Hi linchiling,
In fact there ARE really Idiots' Guide to Buddhism and Buddhism for Dummies, saw them at Borders before *faintz*
Anyway, I think by reading up more on the basic buddhist books that explained on the fundalmental principles and perhaps read on history of buddhism will help.
Remember Faith leades to Understanding; and Understanding enhances one's Faith. =) -
Thank you all for the information and links! Improved my knowledge by leaps ! How about more questions now?
Since the Pali Canon/Tripitaka was the only available doctrine after the the first council, how did the Lotus Sutra come about? Or is the canon only part of the Dharma that includes the other sutras as well?
Did the Mahayana practice originated from the Lotus Sutra? Somewhere around 2nd Century A.D.?
Is it true that in Theravada practice, it is generally thought that people must be reborn as monk before they can attain enlightenment. Thus the purpose of life for the Buddhist layman is to gain merit (good karma) by supporting the monks and doing other good deeds, in the hopes that the next life would be one favorable to gaining enlightenment?
Always thought that Vajrayana practice was different from Mahayana and Theravada, but I came across a page stating that it falls under Mahayana..
Also used to think that Pureland was the only Mahayana school around... Now getting overwhelmed siah... Got Zen and Nichiren etc... Btw, is Nichiren part of Buddhism?
Quoting from the explanation by An Eternal Now on the 5 vehicles. How different is Jenchen Buddhism from Mahayana Buddhism? Looks pretty similar to me...
Sorry for the trouble people... questions after questions...
Thanks in advance to those solving my doubts again. Going to read through the Lotus Sutra soon. -
Originally posted by linchiling:
Both the Pali scriptures and the Mahayana scriptures did not appear until about 500 years after Buddha entered into Parinirvana. They appeared at about the same time. Prior to that, scriptures are only orally transmitted and it was not compiled in written forms. Or it could be written on things like leafs. People please correct me if I am wrong anywhere in this post.
Thank you all for the information and links! Improved my knowledge by leaps ! How about more questions now?
Since the Pali Canon/Tripitaka was the only available doctrine after the the first council, how did the Lotus Sutra come about? Or is the canon only part of the Dharma that includes the other sutras as well?
Did the Mahayana practice originated from the Lotus Sutra? Somewhere around 2nd Century A.D.?
Lotus sutra is not the first Mahayana sutra expounded by the Buddha, and so it is not that Mahayana practise originated from Lotus Sutra. The first Mahayana teachings was on Avatamsaka Sutra, and that sutra was expounded not to humans but to Bodhisattvas and other beings. It was expounded right after Shakyamuni Buddha attained enlightenment, and the teachings of Avatamsaka was so deep that only the Bodhisattvas could fully comprehend the teaching and its essence. It was only after Avatamsaka was taught that later the four noble truths was taught.
According to an explanation Shakyamuni Buddha taught his teachings in five periods (and lotus sutra was taught in the last period):
http://www.buddhistdoor.com/bdoor/archive/sutra_comm/lotus/lotus3.htm
The Five Periods are:
1. The Avatamsaka Period (21 days after enlightenment)
After the enlightenment of Shakyamuni Buddha, he spoke the Avatamsaka Sutra for 21 days, but only the Bodhisattva heard it. Those Arhats and Bhiksus of the Small Vehicle did not even see him. So the period of speaking the Avatamsaka Sutra was for the teaching of great Bodhisattvas. The Sutra expounds the Wonderful Dharma of infinite realm of "One Trueness" in the Buddhalands.
2. The Agama Period (12 years during travelling in 16 countries)
Agama, a Sanskrit word, means "incomparable Dharma", for none of the teachings of non-Buddhist religions can compare with it. So, the period of speaking the Agama Sutras was for the teaching of the Small Vehicle, and for those with the lowest root.
3. The Vaipulya Period (8 years thereafter)
Vaipulya, a Sanskrit word, means "extensive". The Vaipulya teaching pervades the former Agama teaching and the following Prajna teaching. Both those of the Small Vehicle and those of the Great Vehicle can study the Sutras of this period.
4. The Prajna Period (22 years in preaching)
The period of speaking the Sutras was for the beginners of the Great Vehicle. It is distinct and separate from the Vaipulya period and the Lotus-Nirvana Period. The teaching spoken in this period is basically collected in Mahaprajna Sutra.
5. The Dharma Flower - Nirvana Period (8 years before Nirvana)
This is the ultimate teaching of the Buddha. The teachings of the previous four periods are provisional, manifesting for the sake of the real. The Lotus Sutra was spoken in this period, which opened the provisional and manifested the real.
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Regarding the First Council, pls also check my previous reply to you, which is derived from Sinweiy's previous post in the forum:
there's difference in opinions n practice between Arahathood & Bodhisattvahood. and jus that Theravada do not like us calling them hinayana(smaller vehicle). so if one's mahayanist, one should watch what we say. there's a expression from Mahayanist saying, without learning hinayana first as a foundation, one's not Buddha's disciple.
here's Some history, First Council :
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=11766&hl=First Council
or if search engine fyi:
Also known as 500 Council, Theravada Council", The First Compilation, etc. The assembly of 500 leading Bhikhus gathered for 3 months after the Buddha's death to compile the Buddhist sutras. It was held at Cave of the Seven Leaves near Rajagaha.
In the assembly, Ananda recited the Sutta-pitaka, Upali recited the Rules of Disciplines of the Order, i.e., Vinaya-pitaka, and Kassapa recited the Abhidhamma. Thus, the Tripitaka was adopted as a unity of doctrines and opinions within the religious order, and also an orthodox teaching for the Buddhists to follow.
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Mahasanghika and Sthavira are known as two earliest sects in Hinayana. Mahasanghika is said to be the basis of the development of the Mahayana Buddhism, while Sthavira of the Theravada Buddhism.
Mahasanghika
Literally means the Member of the Great Order, majority, community. During the First Council, when the Sthavira or elder disciples assembled in the cave after the Buddha's death, and the other disciples (called to be Mahasanghika) assembled outside the cave. Both compiled the Tripitaka. However, the former emphasized on the rules of disciplines in the monastic community, while the latter concerned the spread of the spirit of Buddhism in lay community. As sects, the principal division took place in the Second Council.
cont..
Mahayana vs. Theravada
http://sg.search.yahoo.com/search?p=Theravada+Mahayana+&sm=All+the+Web&fr=FP-tab-web-t&toggle=1
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(continued from previous post - reply too long so segmented to avoid future expiration)
Is it true that in Theravada practice, it is generally thought that people must be reborn as monk before they can attain enlightenment. Thus the purpose of life for the Buddhist layman is to gain merit (good karma) by supporting the monks and doing other good deeds, in the hopes that the next life would be one favorable to gaining enlightenment?
I don't think so. Lay-practitioners in Theravada are also encouraged to practise Vipassana meditation to develope Insights and Wisdom for Enlightenment. There are many highly enlightened lay-teachers in Theravada too. In terms of the 4 stages of sainthood, which the highest level is Arhantship, there are many lay-teachers who are at least Sotapannas (stream-enterers) or higher. A stream enterer is known to have realised Non-self and destined to attain arhantship within 7 lifetimes and is destined not to fall into the 3 unwholesome realms and is destined to be reborn in the 3 wholesome realms if he did not attain Arhantship within that lifetime. They do not think that it is impossible for lay-practitioners to attain Arhantship, although I have heard (and is sometimes discussed), that in Theravada it is believed if you are a lay-person and you attain Arhantship, you will have to be ordained into the Sangha (monastic community) within 24 hours or you will enter Nirvana (pass away). Somehow your body cannot take it, and is not suitable to be a lay person after you become arhant. Maybe someone can explain it better than me.
In Mahayana Buddhism, as far as I know there is no belief that you definitely will have to renounce into the Sangha if you attain enlightenment. If memory serves though my master mentioned that when you attain the 1st Bhumi stage in Bodhisattvahood, you will have to enter monastic training to progress further. In Mahayana Practise, a Maha Bodhisattva is able to manifest as any being - a god, or king, a normal person, a monk, a ghost, or anything - anything that is required to reach out to other beings and teach the dharma. It doesnt matter what form he takes, as it is only a temporary form in order to benefit other beings. It is believed that anyone can practise the Bodhisattva ways. For example, Guan Shi Yin Pu Sa is depicted as a lay-person in white robes. Most Maha Bodhisattvas in Mahayana are lay persons. Only Di Zhang Wang Pu Sa (Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva) manifests as a monk.
In short, no matter who we are, lay-practitioners or renounced, we will have to do our best in cultivating both Blessings (Fu2) and Wisdom (Hui3). We should cultivate both and not only one of the above. If you only cultivate blessings, and without wisdom you may even be reborn as an animal although you will be well-taken care of. If you cultivate only wisdom, even if you attain Arhantship nobody will give you alms (there is a real story in Buddha's times about this).Always thought that Vajrayana practice was different from Mahayana and Theravada, but I came across a page stating that it falls under Mahayana..
There are 13 Sects in Chinese Mahayana: Also used to think that Pureland was the only Mahayana school around... Now getting overwhelmed siah... Got Zen and Nichiren etc... Btw, is Nichiren part of Buddhism?
http://www.buddhistdoor.com/bdoor/archive/nutshell/teach54.htm
1. Chu-she tsung [] / Kosa Sect in Sanskrit, originated from Abhidharma School or Realistic School in India
2. Cheng-shih tsung [] / Satyasiddhi Sect in Sanskrit
3. Lu tsung [] / Vinaya Sect in Sanskrit
4. Chan tsung [] / Dhayna Sect in Sanskrit / Zen in Japan, sometimes it is called Meditation School, or simply The School
5. Ching-tu tsung [] / Sukhavati Sect in Sanskrit / Pure Land Sect, sometimes it is called Amidsim
6. Hus-yen tsung [] / Avatamsaka Sect in Sanskrit / Flower Adornment Sect
7. Tien-tai tsung [] / Heavenly Platform Sect
8. Fa-hsien tsung [] / Dharmalaksana Sect in Sanskrit / Mere-consciousness Sect / Hosso in Japan, originated from Yogachara School in India
9. San-lun tsung [] / Three Shastra Sect / Sanron in Japan, originated from Madhyamika School in India
10. Chen-yen tsung [] or Mi tsung [] / Esoteric School / Mantrayana or Tantrayana in Sanskrit / Word of Truth Sect / Shingon in Japan
11. Ti-lun tsung []
12. Nirvana Sect []
13. She-lun tsung []
Although there are 13 schools, but the more common ones are the Chan (Zen) school, Pure Land school, and Mi Tsung - which is Vajrayana. Vajrayana is more frequently found in Tibet, but smaller numbers of Vajrayana practitioners can be found in Japanese Buddhism, and their sect is called Shingon. The Esoteric School is also a Mahayana school.
Nichiren Buddhism is not a Chinese sect and developed latter from Tien Tai, which is known as Tendai in Japanese Buddhism, and the founder was Nichiren. The forum recognises Nichiren Shu but not some other Nichiren groups like Soka Gakkai - for this issue pls refer to: Nichiren Buddhism
----------Quoting from the explanation by An Eternal Now on the 5 vehicles. How different is Jenchen Buddhism from Mahayana Buddhism? Looks pretty similar to me...
The Buddha taught 5 vehicles as expedient means to guide sentient beings to Buddhahood. The Buddha taught Mahayana for Bodhisattva practitioners, and Humanity Vehicle teachings in general to humanity as a whole. In essence there is not 3, not 5, but only One Buddha Vehicle and all 5 or 3 vehicles are expediently taught.Sorry for the trouble people... questions after questions...
That's good Thanks in advance to those solving my doubts again. Going to read through the Lotus Sutra soon. -
In short...
Mahayana Buddhism and Vajrayana Buddhism falls under 3 categories
which I have mentioned earlier long ago in another post
There are 3 main categories
From the Awakening Door - Zen for sudden and gradual awakening ,yogacara
From the Righteous living - Tientai ,Huayen ,various sutra,Vinaya(precepts school)
From the Purification - Vajrayana by mantra , Pureland by Buddha name
these are the 3 main school
the whole detail classification will be quite long .I hope to post more for you to
read on .
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Hi linchiling,
An Eternal Now gave a rather comprehensive view on the development of the various tradition.
However I'll like to add in some points.
Just happened to have attended a talk by Professor Sumana Ratnayaka. From what I understand from his talk, Abhidhamma wasn't 'by itself' during the First Council. It was slowly developed and only did it become on its own during the Third Council. We have to understand that the Abhidhamma is a collection of writings by Buddha's disciples. These writings are on how these disciples (usually the Maha Sangha) understand and perceive the teachings that the Buddha had taught. Abhidhamma can be said to have derived from the Sutta-pitaka. However as the discussion on Abhidhamma grew, eventually it became its own pitaka at the Third Council. However it doesn't matter whether does one study and/or understand Abhidhamma or not, as the essence of the Buddha's teachings will come from the Sutta-pitaka itself. Who knows maybe down the road, someone will eventually compiled all topics that were discuss in this forum and became the e-age-sgforums-pitaka. =X
An Eternal Now had also explained on the Five Period of Dhamma, that will be an understanding from a Chinese Mahayana view. Because we won't know for sure whether or not did Buddha go to the celestials and preached to the Bodhisattvas.
If you are to study both literature from Theravada and Mahayana, you'll notice that the style of writing is very much different. The Theravada suttas are tend to write in a very straight forward manner. Addressing to the audience, who are usually the monks and nuns, on the issues that they brought up. The sutta is much like a transcript of conversation. With Buddha probably giving some analogies or parables to further elaborate the ideas that He wanted to expressed.
The Mahayana sutras are tend to be more colourful in its language used. Usually in the Mahayana sutras, the audience will be the bodhisattvas and usually there are a lot of praises to the Buddha. The norm thing is that before Buddha spoke, there will be flowers dropping from the sky. Sometimes the Mahayana Sutra mentioned that the after Buddha spoke something, the earth will shake in 6 ways, don't ask me what are the 6 ways 'cos I don't know (haha); or sometimes the area in between the eyebrows of Buddha will emit a ray of white light and projects the celestial realm and/or hell realm, etc.
To me and my understanding, I don't take these things at face value. If it literally meant that there will be earthquake (earth shook in 6 ways) after Buddha preached sometime, then I'll rather He keep quiet and don't bring disaster. =P
Another issue is that a friend who is new to Buddhism asked me how come in the Mahayana sutras they mentioned that bodhisattvas were present, were they real people as in like the monks and nuns? If yes how come the Theravada suttas don't mention about them? If no, then how come they are in the Mahayana sutras? I mentioned before on the part that because the monks and nuns can't see, as what An Eternal Now had mentioned, it only made my friend to be more confused and find it incredibly discriminating among the Buddha's audience.
So the point when come into sutra discussion, I'll always be more interested in what the sutra is trying to teach, rather raining flowers, earthquaking or whatnot.
To add on, I'd a discussion with a Theravada monk a few months back regarding Lotus Sutra. This bhante is one of the rare one from the Theravada tradition who appreciates the Mahayana teachings, and Lotus Sutra is one of his favourites. As he had told me, what we now read are the chinese and english translation, if I were to know sanskrit and to read its original sanskrit version, I'll be in for a shock. This is because that the whole 28 chapters of Lotus Sutra were written in a few different styles in its different chapters. This could mean that the Lotus Sutra was editted before. Historically, no one can really pinpoint the when did Buddha preach the Lotus Sutra, even one of the Mahayana nun who held a talk on Lotus Sutra mentiond this. However, this bhante still likes the Lotus Sutra because of the One Vehicle idea, rather than what the Mahayana had always like to group the different kinds of door and ways and whatnot. And if I understand sanskrit, I'll know that the way its written in sanskrit is very beautifully done.
Sorry for the long post, but the main idea I want to bring across is that if we are to study the Dhamma, then we should be studying the Dhamma and not taking it at the literal value. Of course, this literal value can used to arise faith in certain group of people. But I'll not encourage so as such faith arise with the foundation and aim for right understanding, will eventually cause the person to lose interest in Buddhism when difficult situations happened and fail to resolve.
Lastly, the Japanese Shingon was directly descendant of the Chinese esoteric buddhism, based on Da Ri Jing aka Dainichi Kyo in Jap. Shingon doesn't call themselves Vajrayana. To what I understand, the word Vajrayana which is commonly used by Tibetan buddhism, is used is to show its superiority over the Theravada and Mahayana. Tibetan buddhism is believed to be founded by Padmasambhava. Tibetan buddhism often has many wrathful looking deities claimed to be protectors.
Shingon is founded by Kukai Daishi and they focus on the JUSAN BUTSU, the Thirteen Buddhas of the Shingon School, are often found represented together in painted images consisting of five Buddhas, seven Bodhisattvas and Fudô Myôô aka Acala Vidyaraja.
Nichiren Buddhism is founded by Nichiren Shonin, a buddhist priest (this is what they call a monk in japan) under the Japanese Tendai sect. Nichiren eventually develop a different view and understanding on the Lotus Sutra, and therefore started a movement. Similiarily to how Mahayana had developed from movement to tradition, Nichiren didn't intend to establish his own school. Nichiren's principle is to remind people to be grateful and gratitude for the appearance of Sakyamuni Buddha.
Last lastly, hope you enjoy your spiritual quest as you study the Dhamma in time to come =) -
The 6 ways are the 6 direction which we refers to in the past during Buddha's time
North, East ,West ,South, Above and below
and I would like to add the Tientai Esoteric never calls themselves vajrayana
Which I am affiliated with that tradition