Originally posted by neutral_onliner:Yep.. You too find it is a very good read right?
Yo...thnks AEN...
This is a [b]MUST read for those really want to understand why the concept of beginning , creator etc... are consider wrong view.This doctrine of dependent arising solves all metaphysical philosophical problems.Etiology is solved because there is, not an absolute beginning, but an temporally indeterminate welling up of mutually-conditioned factors.Since no factor is temporally prior, as such, the discussions of genesis manage to avoid positing an absolute beginning without recourse either to a metaphysical entity like a transcendent God or to causal priority ad infinitum
Btw this teaching is veri veri profound .......[/b]
Don't worry, it's a huge book with hundreds of pagesOriginally posted by sinweiy:ya, do give the commentator credits when ever we quote.
ps: i recall, it's part of a regulation in forum i moderate before. and that if you copy/quote like more than 50%(?), you either just put a link or u'll have to seek copyright approval. just fyi.
/\
Hi, the e-book is a combination of two books/part by a friend. (Sorry, misleading post on topOriginally posted by _wanderer_:Hmm may I know who wrote the commentary?
Sanskrit: Mula madhyamaka karika.The second part is:
Tibetan: dBu ma rtsa baÂ’i tshig leÂ’ur byas pa shes rab ces bya ba.
by Nagarjuna
Romanization and Literal English Translation
of the Tibetan Text
by
Stephen Batchelor
Sharpham College
April 2000
Contents
1. Investigation of Conditions (Conditions)
2. Investigation of Coming and Going (Walking)
3. Investigation of the Sense Organs (Seeing)
4. Investigation of the Aggregates(Body)
5. Investigation of the Elements (Space)
6. Investigation of Desire and the Desirous One (Addiction)
7. Investigation of Birth, Abiding and Perishing (Birth)
8. Investigation of Act and Actor (Actors)
9. Investigation of the Presence of Something Prior (Already)
10. Investigation of Fire and Firewood (Fire)
11. Investigation of Extremes of Before and After (Before)
12. Investigation of Anguish (Anguish)
13. Investigation of Samskaras (Change)
14. Investigation of Connections (Connection)
15. Investigation of Essences (Essence)
16. Investigation of Bondage and Freedom (Life)
17. Investigation of Actions and Fruits(Acts)
18. Investigation of Self and Things (Self)
19. Investigation of Time (Time)
20. Investigation of Combination (Combination)
21. Investigation of Rising and Passing (Disappearance)
22. Investigation of the Tathagata (Buddhanature)
23. Investigation of Error (Confusion)
6
24. Investigation of the Ennobling Truths (Awakening)
25. Investigation of Nirvana (Nirvana)
26. Analysis of the Twelve Links of Becoming (Contingency)
27. Investigation of Views (Opinion)
Thinking in Buddhism:
NagarjunaÂ’s MiddleWay
1994 Jonah Winters
Contents
Chapter 1. Introduction .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 1
1.1. Notes on the Methodology of this Thesis .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 4
Chapter 2. The Buddha and His Teachings .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 6
2.1. The Life of the Buddha .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 6
2.2. The Thought of the Buddha .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 9
Chapter 3. Early Buddhism and The Historical Context of Nagarjuna .. .. .. 16
3.1. The Person of Nagarjuna .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 16
3.2. Some Early Controversies .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 18
3.3. Abhidharma and the Perfection of Wisdom Writings .. .. .. .. .. .. 22
3.4. The Main Figures of Madhyamika .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 26
Chapter 4. NagarjunaÂ’s Mulamadhyamakakarika .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 30
4.1. Structure of the Karika .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 30
4.2. Methodology of this Examination of the Karika .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 32
4.3. A Presentation of the Treatise .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 34
4.3.1. Section 1 — Causation, and some Initial Problems .. .. .. 34
4.3.2. Section 2 — The Relationship between Nominal and Verbal
Subjects .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 38
4.3.3. Sections 3 through 6 — Factors of Personal Existence: Elements
and Passions .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 41
4.3.4. Section 7 — Cohesion of Disparate Elements (Samskrta) .. .. 46
4.3.5. Sections 8-11 — The Ontological Status of the Individual .. 47
4.3.6. Sections 12-13 — Suffering and its Cause .. .. .. .. .. .. 51
4.3.7. Sections 14-15 — Identity / Difference: Self-nature vs. Association
of Distinct Elements .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 55
4.3.8. Sections 16-17 — Bondage and its Cause .. .. .. .. .. .. 58
4.3.9. Section 18 — Self-hood and its Consequences .. .. .. .. .. 61
4.3.10. Sections 19-21 — Associative Compositions and Occurrence of
Phenomena in Time .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 64
4.3.11. Section 22 — The Meaning and Ontological Status of the
Enlightened One .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 70
4.3.12. Sections 23-24 — Error and Truth : the Perversions and the Four
Noble Truths .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 73
4.3.13. Section 25 — The Ultimate Goal: Enlightenment .. .. .. 79
4.3.14. Section 26 — Dependent arising, the Buddha’s Positive Ontology
.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 84
4.3.15. Section 27 — Conclusion: Right and Wrong Views .. .. .. 87
Chapter 5. The Philosophy of Madhyamika .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 93
Chapter 6. NagarjunaÂ’s Motivation and Mission .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 95
6.1. The Dedicatory Verses .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 95
6.2. Self-Nature Theories .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 97
6.3. Non-Buddhist Notions of Self-Nature and the Soul .. .. .. .. .. .. 98
6.4. The BuddhaÂ’s Theory of Soul-lessness .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 101
6.5. NagarjunaÂ’s Response .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 103
Chapter 7. Dependant Arising, the Foundation of Madhyamika .. .. .. .. .. 108
7.1. Dependant Arising as a Central Notion in Buddhism .. .. .. .. .. .. 108
7.2. The Meaning of Dependent Arising .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 109
7.3. Madyamika Interpretation and Re-interpretation .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 113
Chapter 8. Emptiness, the Ultimate Cosmology .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 119
8.1. Pre-Madhyamika Use of the Concept .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 119
8.2. Emptiness as a Via Negativa, a Way of Negation .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 122
8.3. Emptiness is Perceived, not Invented .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 126
8.4. Dependent Arising + No Self-Nature = Emptiness .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 128
8.5. Emptiness is a Theory of No-Theory .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 132
8.6. Emptiness is Freedom Itself .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 136
Chapter 9. Conclusion .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 142
Chapter 10. Epilogue .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 145
Chapter 11. Bibliography .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 147
Index .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 150
Karma is simply the correlation between cause and effect.Whether this was simply a poetic expression, or the author literally means that, it leans towards a mistaken view of cause and effect. There is no correlation between cause and effect.
In the writings of both the Perfection ofWisdom school and Nagarjuna, all propositions regarding a subject are negated (e.g. something is, is not, both is and is not, neither is nor is not), but no alternative proposition is offered.When the term "negation" is used, one has to be extremely careful.
The only way to grasp the subject is through non-dual, non-conceptual intuition.As explained above, there is no way to "grasp" the "subject". There is no truly existing "subject" there in ultimate level;
This approach declared that the Abhidharma schools saw reality from the standpoint of lower, conventional truth, and so they saw all as being composed of real elements which are mutually dependent in terms of causal efficacy. The Perfection of Wisdom, on the other hand, believed themselves to have access to perfect prajna, “wisdom” (hence the name of this school, Prajnaparamita).Firstly, I'm not so sure if the Abhidharma schools remaining today are being criticized by Nagarjuna and Chandrakirti, though they criticized the older Sravakayana schools of thought - mainly Vaibhashikan & Sautrantrikan schools - which posited that there are valid objects of clinging, i.e. there is a smallest base which could be identified as "self". These schools are mostly extinct by now.
From the standpoint of higher, ultimate truth afforded by such wisdom, elements were seen as being, not just causally conditioned, but even ontologically conditioned. That is, the elements did not merely constitute conglomerate things which, as an assemblage, had no inherent identity and real existence;moreover, rather, the elements themselves had no inherent identity or real existence.
Hey thereOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:Hi _wanderer_, thanks for your great explanation and corrections
Firstly, I'm not so sure if the Abhidharma schools remaining today are being criticized by Nagarjuna and Chandrakirti, though they criticized the older Sravakayana schools of thought - mainly Vaibhashikan & Sautrantrikan schools - which posited that there are valid objects of clinging, i.e. there is a smallest base which could be identified as "self". These schools are mostly extinct by now.Yes, I was discussing this topic with Thusness just days ago. He is also of the opinion that Sravaka practitioners clearly understands the Emptiness/Unbornness of phenomena.
Some Buddhist teachers say that all schools of Buddhism that remain today do not hold this view anymore. Buddha also said before that to attain Arahanthood, Bodhisattva, and Buddhahood, one must always enter through the path of Prajnaparamita. Therefore, many great masters say that the Sravaka path also understands emptiness - Madhyamika.
This a philoslophical topic on Qualia.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:Mainstream philosophy has more or less moved on from "relativity" or what you call dependent arising...
The hottest issue at the moment is : How did you know that Red is Red? How does your brain know? How is it that parents can point to their child and say: "this is red, and this is red and this is red? That is blue."
How is it that they child does not say "I see electro magnetic waves of different wave lengths entering my eyes, what is "Red" and what is "Blue"?
The thing that entered everyone's eyes certainly is NOT RED! The thing that enters everyone's eyes is simply light waves of a certain frequency.
If you can dig up any Buddhist scriptures that talks about that, I would be most grateful and impressed...
Well, though Chandrakirti did explain that the 6th bhumi Bodhisattva's understanding of emptiness is comparable to the Arahant. But with 7th bhumi onwards, then they have gone far beyond. There are further explanations and elaborations on that.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes, I was discussing this topic with Thusness just days ago. He is also of the opinion that Sravaka practitioners clearly understands the Emptiness/Unbornness of phenomena.
Otherwise, as Thusness points out, it wouldn't make sense that Sravakas like Dharma Dan have such deep insights on this.
He also commented that comments such as these on the 'Hinayana schools' are arisen during times where those 'Hinayana practitioners' stubbornly cling unto such views. In reality there is no such distinguishing lines, it all depends on the practitioner's level of insights.
YesOriginally posted by _wanderer_:Well, though Chandrakirti did explain that the 6th bhumi Bodhisattva's understanding of emptiness is comparable to the Arahant. But with 7th bhumi onwards, then they have gone far beyond. There are further explanations and elaborations on that.
Anyway I don't have much to contribute to this topic at this point, as I haven't gone into detail for this part.
And the subtlety of the great wisdom of great sublime beings of Arahants, 7th-10th bhumi Bodhisattvas and Buddhas are beyond our conception. Not to mention ordinary being like us, it is said that only a 10th bhumi Bodhisattva is able to tell the difference between a 10th bhumi Bodhisattva and a Buddha.
How incredible & amazing!
Originally posted by _wanderer_:Yes Yound one.
Yes rather go through proper training on Madhyamika under the guidance of authentic teachers.
Very very well said young one.
When the term "negation" is used, one has to be extremely careful.
For Nagarjuna's point is not to affirm nor negate. For affirmation lends towards eternalism, while negation lends towards nihilism - both of which are extreme views.
In Nagarjuna's "No", there are always many many "Yes's".
When statements such as "there is no truly existing self and phenomena" are made, we readers often take it to mean a "negation of self and phenomena".
A moment arises and subsides instantly yet it is timeless. Established no views so that timelessness can be experienced. However thought always think that non-establishment of views equals demolishing all views and this is natural when the mind is dualistic. It only knows either this or that, the many many "Yes's" are not seen.
And of course no propositions are offered, because "the viewless view is the highest view". If with analysis, we end up finding a "view", then it is an indication that we are clinging.
Good that you have this bookOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:YesAs a matter of fact that same friend who sent me the Madhyamika book, also sent me a book very thorough on explaining the different stages of bhumis and also mentioned the diff between bodhisattva and arhat's understanding... by your guru
That is the Introduction to the Middle Way
ChandrakirtiÂ’s Madhyamakavatara
With commentary by Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche
I've also sent this to Thusness.
Old oneOriginally posted by Thusness:A moment arises and subsides instantly yet it is timeless. Established no views so that timelessness can be experienced. However thought always think that non-establishment of views equals demolishing all views and this is natural when the mind is dualistic. It only knows either this or that, the many many "Yes's" are not seen.
Save some $$$ for karaoke before the long long trip to india. :Save trip!Originally posted by _wanderer_:I'm going away again, so won't be able to reply for next couple of days. Take care
Wah so goodOriginally posted by _wanderer_:I'm going away again