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On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness and Spontaneous Perfection

For a more detailed conceptual understanding of Emptiness, do read the article "Non-Dual Emptiness" by Dr. Greg Goode.
  • Chenrezig

    Nice one. biggrin.png

  • An Eternal Now

    Updated

    5:22p.m: updated again

  • An Eternal Now

    Here's another article on Anatta that I just found yesterday that Thusness thinks is very good: http://www1.indstate.edu/coe/div24/JTPP%20Aticles/26-2/THE1209.pdf

    Due to the PDF format I decided not to post here as it is difficult to format it to a text format that suits the forum.

    These articles related to Anatta are also very good, posted in my blog:

    What Is The "Me"?

    and

    The Buddha on Non-Duality

  • An Eternal Now

    Original article updated again. Evolved from 'On Anatta' to 'On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness and Spontaneous Perfection'

  • Kim123
    Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

    On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness and Spontaneous Perfection

    (Last Updated: 9th March 2009)

    Article written by: Thusness/PasserBy

    Wonder why but of late, the topic on anatta kept surfacing in forums. Perhaps 'yuan' (condition) has arisen. -:) I will just jot down some thoughts on my experiences of ‘no-self’. A casual sharing, nothing authentic.

    The 2 stanzas below are pivotal for leading me to the direct experience of no-self. Although they appear to convey the same stuff about anatta, meditating on these 2 stanzas can yield 2 very different experiential insights -- one on the emptiness aspect and the other, the non-dual luminosity aspect. The insights that arise from these experiences are very illuminating as they contradict so much our ordinary understanding of what awareness is.


    • There is thinking, no thinker
      There is hearing, no hearer
      There is seeing, no seer


    • In thinking, just thoughts
      In hearing, just sounds
      In seeing, just forms, shapes and colors.


    • Before proceeding any further, it is of absolute importance to know that there is no way the stanzas can be correctly understood by way of inference, logical deduction or induction. Not that there is something mystical or transcendental about the stanzas but simply the way of mental chattering is a 'wrong approach'. The right technique is through 'vipassana' or any more direct and attentive bare mode of observation that allows the seeing of things as they are. Just a casual note, such mode of knowing turns natural when non-dual insight matures, before that it can be quite 'efforting'.

      On the first stanza

      In the first case, there is a direct recognition that there is “no agent”. Just one thought then another thought. So it is always thought watching thought rather than a watcher watching thought. However the gist of this realization is skewed towards a spontaneous liberating experience and a vague glimpse of the empty nature of phenomena -- that is, the transient phenomena being bubble-like and ephemeral, nothing substantial or solid. At this phase we should not misunderstand that we have experienced thoroughly the ‘empty’ nature of phenomena and awareness, although there is this temptation to think we have. -:)

      The most obvious experience of this initial glimpse is the lack of doer-ship and the direct insight of the absence of an agent that links and co-ordinates experiences. Without the 'I' that links, phenomena (thoughts, sound, feelings and so on and so forth) appear bubble-like, floating and manifesting freely, spontaneously and boundlessly. With the absence of the agent also comes a deep sense of freedom and transparency. Depending on the conditions of an individual, it may not be obvious that it is “always thought watching thought rather than a watcher watching thought.” or "the watcher is that thought." Because this is the key insight and a step that cannot afford to be wrong along the path of liberation, I cannot help but with some disrespectful tone say,

      And this is the whole purpose of anatta. To thoroughly see through that this background does not exist in actuality. What exists is a stream, action or karma. There is no doer or anything being done, there is only doing; No meditator nor meditation, only meditating. From a letting go perspective, "a watcher watching thought" will create the impression that a watcher is allowing thoughts to arise and subside while itself being unaffected. This is an illusion; it is 'holding' in disguise as 'letting go'. When we realized that there is no background from start, reality will present itself as one whole letting go. With practice, ‘intention’ dwindles with the maturing of insight and ‘doing’ will be gradually experienced as mere spontaneous happening as if universe is doing the work. With the some pointers from 'dependent origination', we can then penetrate further to see this happening as a sheer expression of everything interacting with everything coming into being. In fact, if we do not reify ‘universe’, it is just that -- an expression of interdependent arising that is just right wherever and whenever is.

      By then it is clear that the transient phenomena is already happening in the perfect way; unwinding what must be unwinded, manifesting what must be manifested and subsides when it is time to go. There is no problem with this transient happening, the only problem is having an ‘extra mirror’, a reification due to the power of the mind to abstract. The mirror is not perfect; it is the happening that is perfect. The mirror appears to be perfect only to a dualistic and inherent view.

      Our deeply held inherent and dualistic view has very subtly and unknowingly personified the "luminous aspect" into the watcher and discarded the "emptiness aspect" as the transient phenomena. The key challenge of practice is then to clearly see that luminosity and emptiness are one and inseparable, they have never and can never be separated.

      On the second stanza

      For the second stanza, the focus is on the transience phenomena - ‘just thoughts’, just ‘sounds’. It is a direct and holistic experience of the pristine-ness, non-dual (no division), presence and clarity of transience phenomena. There is no-experiencer-experience split, only one seamless spontaneous experience arising as thoughts, sounds, feelings, sensations and so on. In hearing, there is always just sound and in seeing, always just scenery.

      For anyone that is familiar with the “I AM” experience, that pure sense of existence, that powerful experience of presence that makes one feel so real, is unforgettable. When the background is gone, all foreground phenomena reveal themselves as Presence. It is like naturally 'vipassanic' throughout or simply put, naked in awareness. From the hissing sound of PC, to the vibration of the moving MRT train, to the sensation when the feet touches the ground, all these experiences are crystal clear, no less “I AM” than “I AM”. The Presence is still fully present, nothing is denied. -:)

      It will be obvious by then that only the deeply held dualistic view is obscuring our insight into this experiential fact. In actual experience, there is just the crystal clarity of phenomena manifesting. Maturing this experience, the mind-body dissolves into mere non-dual luminosity and all phenomena are experientially understood as the manifestation of this non-dual luminous presence -- the key insight leading to the realization that "All is Mind".

      After this, not to be too overwhelmed or over-claimed what is more than necessary; rather investigate further. Does this non-dual luminosity exhibits any characteristic of self-nature that is independent, unchanging and permanent? A practitioner can still get stuck for quite sometimes solidifying non-dual presence unknowingly. This is leaving marks of the 'One mirror' as described in the stage 4 and 5 of the 6 phases of my insights. Although experience is non-dual, the insight of emptiness is still not there. Though the dualistic bond has loosen sufficiently, the 'inherent' view remains strong. Effectively when the 'subject' is gone, experience becomes non-dual but we forgotten about the 'object'. When object is further emptied, we see Dharmakaya.

      For sincere Buddhist practitioners that has matured non-dual insight, they may prompt themselves why is there a need for Buddha to put so much emphasis on dependent origination if non-dual presence is final? The experience is still as Vedantic, more 'Brahman' than 'Sunya'. This 'solidity of non-dual presence' must be broken with the help of dependent origination and emptiness. Knowing this a practitioner can then progress to understand the empty (dependently originated) nature of non-dual presence. It is a further refining of anatta experience according to the first stanza.

      As for those "I AMness" practitioners, it is very common for them after non-dual insight to stay in non-dual presence. They find delight in 'chop wood, carry water' and 'spring comes, grass grows by its own'. Nothing much can be stressed; the experience do appear to be final. Hopefully 'yuan' (condition) can arise for these practitioners to see this subtle mark that prevent the seeing.

      On Emptiness

      If we observe thought and ask where does thought arise, how does it arise, what is ‘thought’ like. 'Thought' will reveal its nature is empty -- vividly present yet completely un-locatable. It is very important not to infer, think or conceptualise but feel with our entire being this ‘ungraspability’ and 'unlocatability'. It seems to reside 'somewhere' but there is no way to locate it. It is just an impression of somewhere "there" but never "there". Similarly “here-ness” and “now-ness” are merely impressions formed by sensations, aggregates of causes and conditions, nothing inherently ‘there’; equally empty like ‘selfness’.

      This ungraspable and unlocatable empty nature is not only peculiar to ‘thought’. All experiences or sensations are like that -- vividly present yet insubstantial, un-graspable, spontaneous, un-locatable.

      If we were to observe a red flower that is so vivid, clear and right in front us, the “redness” only appears to “belong” to the flower, it is in actuality not so. Vision of red does not arise in all animal species (dogs cannot perceive colours) nor is the “redness” an inherent attribute of the mind. If given a “quantum eyesight” to look into the atomic structure, there is similarly no attribute “redness” anywhere found, only almost complete space/void with no perceivable shapes and forms. Whatever appearances are dependently arisen, and hence is empty of any inherent existence or fixed attributes, shapes, form, or “redness” -- merely luminous yet empty, mere appearances without inherent/objective existence.

      Likewise when standing in front of a burning fire pit, the entire phenomena of ‘fire’, the burning heat, the whole sensation of ‘hotness’ that are so vividly present and seem so real but when examined they are also not inherently “there” -- merely dependently manifest whenever conditions are there. It is amazing how dualistic and inherent views have caged seamless experience in a who-where-when construct.

      All experiences are empty. They are like sky flowers, like painting on the surface of a pond. There is no way to point to a moment of experience and say this is ‘in’ and that is ‘out’. All ‘in’ are as ‘out’; to awareness seamless experience is all there is. It is not the mirror or pond that is important but that process of illusion-like shimmering phenomenon of the paint on the surface of the pond; like an illusion but not an illusion, like a dream but not a dream. This is the ground of all experiences.

      Yet this ‘ungraspability and unlocatabilty’ nature is not all there is; there is also this Maha, this great without boundaries feeling of Emptiness. When someone hits a bell, the person, the stick, the bell, the vibration of the air, the ears and then the magically appearance of sound -- ’Tongsss…re-sounding…’ is all a seamless one happening, one experience. When breathing, it is just this one whole entire breath; it is all causes and conditions coming together to give rise to this entire sensation of breath as if the whole of universe is doing this breathing.

      The experience of our empty nature is a very different from that of non-dual oneness. ‘Distance’ for example is overcome in non-dual oneness by seeing through the illusory aspect of subject/object division and resulted in a one non-dual presence. It is seeing all as just ‘This’ but experiencing Emptiness breaks the boundary through its empty ungraspable and unlocatable nature.

      There is no need for a ‘where-place' or a ‘when-time' or a ‘who-I' when we penetrate deeply into this nature. When hearing sound, sound is neither ‘in here’ nor ‘out there’, it is where it is and gone! All centers and reference points dissolve with the wisdom that manifestation dependently originates and hence empty. The experience creates an "always right wherever and whenever is" sensation. A sensation of home everywhere though nowhere can be called home. Experiencing the emptiness nature of presence, a sincere practitioner becomes clear that indeed the non-dual presence is leaving a subtle mark; seeing its nature as empty, the last mark that solidifies experiences dissolves. It feels cool because presence is made more present and effortless. We then move from "vivid non-dual presence" into "though vividly and non-dually present, it is nothing real, empty!".

      On Spontaneous Perfection

      Lastly, when these 2 experiences inter-permeate, what that is really needed is simply to experience whatever arises openly and unreservedly. It may sound simple but do not underestimate this simple path; even aeon lives of practices cannot touch the depth of its profundity.

      In fact all the subsections -- “On Stanza One”, “On Stanza Two”, “On Emptiness”, there is already certain emphasis of the natural way. With regards to the natural way, I must say that spontaneous presence and experiencing whatever arises openly, unreservedly and fearlessly is not the 'path' of any tradition or religion -- Be it Zen, Mahamudra, Dzogchen, Advaita, Taoism or Buddhism. In fact the natural way is the 'path' of Tao but Taoism cannot claim monopoly over the 'path' simply because it has a longer history. My experience is that any sincere practitioner after maturing non-dual experiences will eventually come to this automatically and naturally. It is like in the blood, there is no other way then the natural way.

      That said, the natural and spontaneous way is often misrepresented. It should not be taken to mean that there is no need to do anything or practice is unnecessary. Rather it is the deepest insight of a practitioner that after cycles and cycles of refining his insights on the aspect of anatta, emptiness and dependent origination, he suddenly realized that anatta is a seal and non-dual luminosity and emptiness have always been ‘the ground’ of all experiences. Practice then shift from ‘concentrative’ to ‘effortless’ mode and for this it requires the complete pervading of non-dual and emptiness insights into our entire being like how “dualistic and inherent views” has invaded consciousness.

      In any case, care must be taken not to make our empty and luminous nature into a metaphysical essence. I will end with a comment I wrote in another blog Luminous Emptiness as it summarizes pretty well what that I have written.

      PS:
      We should not treat the insight of emptiness as 'higher' than that of non-dual luminosity. It is just different insights dawning due to differing conditions. To some practitioners, the insight of our empty nature comes before non-dual luminosity.

      For a more detailed conceptual understanding of Emptiness, do read the article "Non-Dual Emptiness" by Dr. Greg Goode.


    Thank you very much for sharing this.

    For a very beginner, could please kindly advise how I should come to experience and understand No-self, Emptiness and Spontaneous Perfection? Where and how should I start? I need a really concise practice to do so that I could have a glimpse experience of it to understand it better. How did you start understanding them?

     

  • An Eternal Now
    Originally posted by Kim123:


    Thank you very much for sharing this.

    For a very beginner, could please kindly advise how I should come to experience and understand No-self, Emptiness and Spontaneous Perfection? Where and how should I start? I need a really concise practice to do so that I could have a glimpse experience of it to understand it better. How did you start understanding them?

     

    I'm not the author of the article (the other moderator Thusness is), I'm not quite sure if he is replying and I hope he is but just giving some comments here...

    If you are a Vajrayana practitioner... you can receive Mahamudra and Dzogchen instructions from your teacher if they do teach that.They are very effective practices for gaining realisation. I don't know too much about other Vajrayana practices in general and it depends on whether your guru wishes to teach that also.

    The book 'Clarifying the Natural State' by Dakpo Tashi Namgyal, a 14th century Mahamudra master, is also a good read.

    What I can share here, is from the general perspective of Vipassana (insight) practice. To practice Vipassana properly first we have to have the establishment of the right views. We should have the right view first, then the right path (practices) and then fruition can result. 

    For example, our ordinary way of viewing ourselves and the world is as solid entities, very dualistic. That means, I perceive myself and the world as separate -- hence the duality of Subject and Object. I am the agent, the experiencer, doer, of things. I am not the sound -- the sound is 'out there' and I am the perceiver 'in here', hence setting up a duality. And the things I see, hear, etc have inherent existence. That is the way ordinary people view the world and themselves -- dualistically and inherently.

    Hence, we have to establish the right understanding of Dependent Origination, of Emptiness and No-Self... then we should proceed with a correct path, a practice, so that we can realise and experience these truths ourselves.

    This path should be a non-conceptual path -- which means the practice is about bare attention, observing in direct experience the nature of mind or reality... instead of through logical analysis or conjecture. The nature of reality exhibits itself fully in each moment of experience... whether we see it or not is another matter.

    Through Vipassana, we must feel the vivid clarity in all manifestation, all experiences... through mindful awareness. Whatever manifest is totally vivid, luminous and clear -- yet at the same time ungraspable, empty, impermanent. With deep clarity we are able to see through the apparent solidity of sensate reality to perceive its arising and subsiding nature. We should bear in mind the dharma seals while practicing Vipassana (such as impermanence, suffering, no-self)... be mindful that this is the characteristic of every experience.

    We can also experience the no-self nature of each experience -- everything is happening on its own accord, sound/hearing is happening on its own accord, seeing/sight is happening on its own accord... same for thoughts, taste, smell, touch.... and there is no observer or controller apart from that experience. So in the Satipatthana Sutta we are taught to observe the sensation IN the sensation -- that means each sensation are aware where they are, without a separate self or observer apart from them... nor is there any self or solidity in them -- for they are just sensations arising and vanishing according to conditions, being dependently arisen are empty of any inherent existence.

    This is a good read for a beginner: http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe13.html

  • Thusness
    Originally posted by Kim123:


    Thank you very much for sharing this.

    For a very beginner, could please kindly advise how I should come to experience and understand No-self, Emptiness and Spontaneous Perfection? Where and how should I start? I need a really concise practice to do so that I could have a glimpse experience of it to understand it better. How did you start understanding them?

     

    Hi Kim123,

    Just to add a lil, see whether it makes sense to you.

    As a start it is almost not possible not to feel dualistic.  An observer observing the observed is our ordinary experience and it will appear that this is an experiential fact.  Therefore we should not rush into anything but just simply recognize the ‘cause’.  The cause that made us see in such a way is termed ‘ignorance’.  Try to understand ‘ignorance’ not as not knowing but a form of knowing instead.  See it as a very deep form of ‘dualistic knowing’ that we have taken it to be truth.  We then proceed to overcome this wrong view in 2 steps; one by strongly and firmly establishing the right view to replace our existing ‘dualistic and inherent view’ and second, practice seeing in bare attention to lessen the grip of views. Practice being bare in bodily sensation till there is a very strong clear mirror feeling in bodily sensation.  Then with the right view, non-dual will dawn.  Without the right view, it will most likely turn into a mirror reflecting phenomena experience.

    Practices can take decades and often quite frustrating and challenging during the journey.  But have faith, be patient and have confidence, all effort will proof worthwhile eventually.

    A simple summary I use to help my practice:-

    When there is simply a pure sense of existence;
    When awareness appears mirror like;
    When sensations become pristine clear and bright;
    This is luminosity.

    When all arising appear disconnected;
    When appearance springs without a center;
    When phenomena appears to be on their own without controller;
    This is no doer-ship.

    When subject/object division is seen as illusion;
    When there is clarity that no one is behind thoughts;
    When there is only scenery, sounds, thoughts and so forth;
    This is anatta.

    When phenomena appears pristinely crystal;
    When there is merely one seamless experience;
    When all is seen as Presence;
    This is non-dual Presence.

    When we feel fully the unfindability and unlocatability of phenomena;
    When all experiences are seen as ungraspable;
    When all mind boundaries of in/out, there/here, now/then dissolve;
    This is Emptiness.

    When interconnectedness of everything is wholly felt;
    When arising appears great, effortless and wonderful;
    When presence feels universe;
    This is Maha.

    When arising is not caged in who, where and when;
    When all phenomena appear spontaneous and effortless;
    When everything appears right every where, every when;
    This is spontaneous perfection.
     
    Seeing these as the ground of all experiences;
    always and already so;
    This is wisdom.

    Experiencing the ground in whatever arises;
    This is practice.

    Happy journey. :)

  • An Eternal Now
    Originally posted by Thusness:

    Hi Kim123,

    Just to add a lil, see whether it makes sense to you.

    As a start it is almost not possible not to feel dualistic.  An observer observing the observed is our ordinary experience and it will appear that this is an experiential fact.  Therefore we should not rush into anything but just simply recognize the ‘cause’.  The cause that made us see in such a way is termed ‘ignorance’.  Try to understand ‘ignorance’ not as not knowing but a form of knowing instead.  See it as a very deep form of ‘dualistic knowing’ that we have taken it to be truth.  We then proceed to overcome this wrong view in 2 steps; one by strongly and firmly establishing the right view to replace our existing ‘dualistic and inherent view’ and second, practice seeing in bare attention to lessen the grip of views. Practice being bare in bodily sensation till there is a very strong clear mirror feeling in bodily sensation.  Then with the right view, non-dual will dawn.  Without the right view, it will most likely turn into a mirror reflecting phenomena experience.

    Practices can take decades and often quite frustrating and challenging during the journey.  But have faith, be patient and have confidence, all effort will proof worthwhile eventually.

    A simple summary I use to help my practice:-

    When there is simply a pure sense of existence;
    When awareness appears mirror like;
    When sensations become pristine clear and bright;
    This is luminosity.

    When all arising appear disconnected;
    When appearance springs without a center;
    When phenomena appears to be on their own without controller;
    This is no doer-ship.

    When subject/object division is seen as illusion;
    When there is clarity that no one is behind thoughts;
    When there is only scenery, sounds, thoughts and so forth;
    This is anatta.

    When phenomena appears pristinely crystal;
    When there is merely one seamless experience;
    When all is seen as Presence;
    This is non-dual Presence.

    When we feel fully the unfindability and unlocatability of phenomena;
    When all experiences are seen as ungraspable;
    When all mind boundaries of in/out, there/here, now/then dissolve;
    This is Emptiness.

    When interconnectedness of everything is wholly felt;
    When arising appears great, effortless and wonderful;
    When presence feels universe;
    This is Maha.

    When arising is not caged in who, where and when;
    When all phenomena appear spontaneous and effortless;
    When everything appears right every where, every when;
    This is spontaneous perfection.
     
    Seeing these as the ground of all experiences;
    always and already so;
    This is wisdom.

    Experiencing the ground in whatever arises;
    This is practice.

    Happy journey. :)

    Nice summary... thanks...

  • Kim123
    Originally posted by Thusness:

    Hi Kim123,

    Just to add a lil, see whether it makes sense to you.

    As a start it is almost not possible not to feel dualistic.  An observer observing the observed is our ordinary experience and it will appear that this is an experiential fact.  Therefore we should not rush into anything but just simply recognize the ‘cause’.  The cause that made us see in such a way is termed ‘ignorance’.  Try to understand ‘ignorance’ not as not knowing but a form of knowing instead.  See it as a very deep form of ‘dualistic knowing’ that we have taken it to be truth.  We then proceed to overcome this wrong view in 2 steps; one by strongly and firmly establishing the right view to replace our existing ‘dualistic and inherent view’ and second, practice seeing in bare attention to lessen the grip of views. Practice being bare in bodily sensation till there is a very strong clear mirror feeling in bodily sensation.  Then with the right view, non-dual will dawn.  Without the right view, it will most likely turn into a mirror reflecting phenomena experience.

    Practices can take decades and often quite frustrating and challenging during the journey.  But have faith, be patient and have confidence, all effort will proof worthwhile eventually.

    A simple summary I use to help my practice:-

    When there is simply a pure sense of existence;
    When awareness appears mirror like;
    When sensations become pristine clear and bright;
    This is luminosity.

    When all arising appear disconnected;
    When appearance springs without a center;
    When phenomena appears to be on their own without controller;
    This is no doer-ship.

    When subject/object division is seen as illusion;
    When there is clarity that no one is behind thoughts;
    When there is only scenery, sounds, thoughts and so forth;
    This is anatta.

    When phenomena appears pristinely crystal;
    When there is merely one seamless experience;
    When all is seen as Presence;
    This is non-dual Presence.

    When we feel fully the unfindability and unlocatability of phenomena;
    When all experiences are seen as ungraspable;
    When all mind boundaries of in/out, there/here, now/then dissolve;
    This is Emptiness.

    When interconnectedness of everything is wholly felt;
    When arising appears great, effortless and wonderful;
    When presence feels universe;
    This is Maha.

    When arising is not caged in who, where and when;
    When all phenomena appear spontaneous and effortless;
    When everything appears right every where, every when;
    This is spontaneous perfection.
     
    Seeing these as the ground of all experiences;
    always and already so;
    This is wisdom.

    Experiencing the ground in whatever arises;
    This is practice.

    Happy journey. :)

    Hi Thusness, thank you very much for making it clearer for practicing for me.

    You mentioned about the 'right view'. Could you please kindly tell me what are the right view that I need to have? Is it just the following?

    'There is thinking, no thinker
    There is hearing, no hearer
    There is seeing, no seer
    In thinking, just thoughts
    In hearing, just sounds
    In seeing, just forms, shapes and colors.'

    I have bold the words in your post that I have quoted, so that it is easier for you to refer to.

    May you experience swift spiritual progress.

    With Mani,

    Kim

     

  • Kim123
    Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

    I'm not the author of the article (the other moderator Thusness is), I'm not quite sure if he is replying and I hope he is but just giving some comments here...

    If you are a Vajrayana practitioner... you can receive Mahamudra and Dzogchen instructions from your teacher if they do teach that.They are very effective practices for gaining realisation. I don't know too much about other Vajrayana practices in general and it depends on whether your guru wishes to teach that also.

    The book 'Clarifying the Natural State' by Dakpo Tashi Namgyal, a 14th century Mahamudra master, is also a good read.

    What I can share here, is from the general perspective of Vipassana (insight) practice. To practice Vipassana properly first we have to have the establishment of the right views. We should have the right view first, then the right path (practices) and then fruition can result. 

    For example, our ordinary way of viewing ourselves and the world is as solid entities, very dualistic. That means, I perceive myself and the world as separate -- hence the duality of Subject and Object. I am the agent, the experiencer, doer, of things. I am not the sound -- the sound is 'out there' and I am the perceiver 'in here', hence setting up a duality. And the things I see, hear, etc have inherent existence. That is the way ordinary people view the world and themselves -- dualistically and inherently.

    Hence, we have to establish the right understanding of Dependent Origination, of Emptiness and No-Self... then we should proceed with a correct path, a practice, so that we can realise and experience these truths ourselves.

    This path should be a non-conceptual path -- which means the practice is about bare attention, observing in direct experience the nature of mind or reality... instead of through logical analysis or conjecture. The nature of reality exhibits itself fully in each moment of experience... whether we see it or not is another matter.

    Through Vipassana, we must feel the vivid clarity in all manifestation, all experiences... through mindful awareness. Whatever manifest is totally vivid, luminous and clear -- yet at the same time ungraspable, empty, impermanent. With deep clarity we are able to see through the apparent solidity of sensate reality to perceive its arising and subsiding nature. We should bear in mind the dharma seals while practicing Vipassana (such as impermanence, suffering, no-self)... be mindful that this is the characteristic of every experience.

    We can also experience the no-self nature of each experience -- everything is happening on its own accord, sound/hearing is happening on its own accord, seeing/sight is happening on its own accord... same for thoughts, taste, smell, touch.... and there is no observer or controller apart from that experience. So in the Satipatthana Sutta we are taught to observe the sensation IN the sensation -- that means each sensation are aware where they are, without a separate self or observer apart from them... nor is there any self or solidity in them -- for they are just sensations arising and vanishing according to conditions, being dependently arisen are empty of any inherent existence.

    This is a good read for a beginner: http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe13.html

    An Eternal Now, thank you very much for the explanation and link. I can understand no-self, but what is emptiness? Is it because of Dependent Origination that we say everything we perceive is of no self or no essence of itself so it is empty?

  • Kim123
    Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

    I'm not the author of the article (the other moderator Thusness is), I'm not quite sure if he is replying and I hope he is but just giving some comments here...

    If you are a Vajrayana practitioner... you can receive Mahamudra and Dzogchen instructions from your teacher if they do teach that.They are very effective practices for gaining realisation. I don't know too much about other Vajrayana practices in general and it depends on whether your guru wishes to teach that also.

    The book 'Clarifying the Natural State' by Dakpo Tashi Namgyal, a 14th century Mahamudra master, is also a good read.

    What I can share here, is from the general perspective of Vipassana (insight) practice. To practice Vipassana properly first we have to have the establishment of the right views. We should have the right view first, then the right path (practices) and then fruition can result. 

    For example, our ordinary way of viewing ourselves and the world is as solid entities, very dualistic. That means, I perceive myself and the world as separate -- hence the duality of Subject and Object. I am the agent, the experiencer, doer, of things. I am not the sound -- the sound is 'out there' and I am the perceiver 'in here', hence setting up a duality. And the things I see, hear, etc have inherent existence. That is the way ordinary people view the world and themselves -- dualistically and inherently.

    Hence, we have to establish the right understanding of Dependent Origination, of Emptiness and No-Self... then we should proceed with a correct path, a practice, so that we can realise and experience these truths ourselves.

    This path should be a non-conceptual path -- which means the practice is about bare attention, observing in direct experience the nature of mind or reality... instead of through logical analysis or conjecture. The nature of reality exhibits itself fully in each moment of experience... whether we see it or not is another matter.

    Through Vipassana, we must feel the vivid clarity in all manifestation, all experiences... through mindful awareness. Whatever manifest is totally vivid, luminous and clear -- yet at the same time ungraspable, empty, impermanent. With deep clarity we are able to see through the apparent solidity of sensate reality to perceive its arising and subsiding nature. We should bear in mind the dharma seals while practicing Vipassana (such as impermanence, suffering, no-self)... be mindful that this is the characteristic of every experience.

    We can also experience the no-self nature of each experience -- everything is happening on its own accord, sound/hearing is happening on its own accord, seeing/sight is happening on its own accord... same for thoughts, taste, smell, touch.... and there is no observer or controller apart from that experience. So in the Satipatthana Sutta we are taught to observe the sensation IN the sensation -- that means each sensation are aware where they are, without a separate self or observer apart from them... nor is there any self or solidity in them -- for they are just sensations arising and vanishing according to conditions, being dependently arisen are empty of any inherent existence.

    This is a good read for a beginner: http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe13.html


    Hi An Eternal Now,

    Just want to thank you once again for the link: http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe13.html.

    It is really worth reading. I am always lazy when it comes to the practice of mindfulness, but after reading the article, it motivates me to practice mindfulness with mindfulness and effort. It never occur to me that mindfulness meant so much, although I know that it is important.

    With Mani,

    Kim

  • Thusness
    Originally posted by Kim123:

    Hi Thusness, thank you very much for making it clearer for practicing for me.

    You mentioned about the 'right view'. Could you please kindly tell me what are the right view that I need to have? Is it just the following?

    'There is thinking, no thinker
    There is hearing, no hearer
    There is seeing, no seer
    In thinking, just thoughts
    In hearing, just sounds
    In seeing, just forms, shapes and colors.'

    I have bold the words in your post that I have quoted, so that it is easier for you to refer to.

    May you experience swift spiritual progress.

    With Mani,

    Kim

     

    Yes anatta as stated in the stanzas and dependent origination.  Seeing that both self and phenomena lack self-nature and hence empty.

    Thanks and likewise -swift spiritual progress. :)

     

     

     

  • An Eternal Now
    Originally posted by Kim123:

    An Eternal Now, thank you very much for the explanation and link. I can understand no-self, but what is emptiness? Is it because of Dependent Origination that we say everything we perceive is of no self or no essence of itself so it is empty?

    The are two aspects of Emptiness.

    Based on a Buddhist glossary, and Thusness thinks the definition is very well written: the two emptinesses (二空) include (1) emptiness of self, the Ä�tman, the soul, in a person composed of the five aggregates, constantly changing with causes and conditions; and (2) emptiness of selves in all dharmas—each of the five aggregates, each of the twelve fields, and each of the eighteen spheres, as well as everything else with no independent existence. No-self in any dharma implies no-self in a person, but the latter is separated out in the first category.

    While the Buddhist glossary states that practitioner who realise (1) becomes Arhats and Pratyekabuddhas while those who realise (1) + (2) enters the Bodhisattva bhumis, I don't really think this is such a good distinction/discrimination.

    Anyway, Part (1) Corresponds to the 'Anatta' section in this article, and Stage 4 and 5 of Thusness's Six Stages of Experience

    Part (2) Corresponds to the 'Emptiness' section in this article, and Stage 6 of Thusness's Six Stages of Experience

    In Thusness's words:

    "When the 'subject' is gone (Stage 4/5), experience becomes non-dual but we forgotten about the 'object'. When object is further emptied (Stage 6), we see Dharmakaya. Do See clearly that for the case of a ‘subject’ that is first penetrated, it is a mere label collating the 5 aggregates but for the next level that is to be negated, it is the Presence that we are emptying -- not a label but the very presence itself that is non-dual in nature."

    This means that when the illusion of the 'subject' (self) is gone, this corresponds to the 'emptiness of self'. But the next realisation, the 'emptiness of selves in dharma' means seeing that all sensations, the 5 skhandas, the very presence (which is all sensations) is itself empty of any independent existence

    For example, the sound that is heard, though vividly clear and there is no self observing the sound (which is talking about the Anatta part), furthermore, the sound itself is empty of any independent existence -- so does "each of the five aggregates, each of the twelve fields, and each of the eighteen spheres, as well as everything else with no independent existence." Why? Because it is the 'interconnectedness' that give rise to sound or experience. And one must bring this experience to 'the universe is doing the work'. This is then related to the Maha experience.

    For a further explanation of Emptiness or dependent origination, read Thusness's explanation on Emptiness starting with the red flowers and other examples...

  • An Eternal Now
    Originally posted by Kim123:


    Hi An Eternal Now,

    Just want to thank you once again for the link: http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe13.html.

    It is really worth reading. I am always lazy when it comes to the practice of mindfulness, but after reading the article, it motivates me to practice mindfulness with mindfulness and effort. It never occur to me that mindfulness meant so much, although I know that it is important.

    With Mani,

    Kim

    Glad it's of help. Yes, the book is very helpful. Here is the full book, of which the link I gave you is only one chapter: http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html