Fortune Telling

• wisdomeye

  28 Mar 10, 10:03

  Got from a Buddhist blog.  Not sure if suitable for here. But thot-provoking... not that i'm against fortune telling, but we shd see issues from several angles.

  ---------------------------------------

  Negative Side of Art of Fortune Telling

  There are many people now who are attarcted to the art of Feng Shui. Once people learn Feng Shui, they will naturally learn Bazi too. That's the art of fortune telling based on the date and hour of birth of the person. There are many positive aspects of fortune telling. If done correctly, you could possibly direct a person to much fulfilment in life. Perhaps you will be more certain of which career you should be pursuing, and what are the pitfalls you should watch out for.

  
  The problem with Bazi reading (like palm reading, face reading and others) is that it gives the person whom it is read a feeling of his/her destiny being etched permanently. That's what most Bazi readers will tell you, i.e. you can't change your destiny. But then, those unscrupulous readers will then offer "extra services" to their clients for "purify" away those bad fortunes that they have predicted. And these "extra services" often are costly. I think it is irresponsible for such fortune tellers to be telling a happy couple (with no affairs at all at that time) that one of them will be having affairs and that he/she can purify away such misfortune by paying him thousands of dollars. He would tell the couple he has a Thai master or he knows of some Thai monks who can look into past lives and with some prayers he can eliminate the potential affair. Lots of couples have fallen for that and have parted with thousands of dollars to such unscrupulous fortune tellers. I know of men whose wives had never had any doubt on them before, would thereafter start worrying if their husbands will cheat on the wives. And the wives continue to give their husbands headache after headache and not a shadow of any mistress can be seen...yet.

  
  And those people with mistresses, they often failed to see that coming. Take a peron I know for instance. Her husband was caught having an affair. When she came to me to voice her frustrations, I asked her if she had ever had her foprtune read based on her date of birth or palms, and she confirmed that her fortune teller told her that she will not suffer from her spouse having affairs.

  
  Then there was another case of a young girl who was told that her current boyfriend would not be her future husband but would be parting from her soon. Her daughter was told that she will meet another guy (much older than her) who is rich but will not have a smooth lovey-dovey life with her. The good news is, according to the fortune teller, is that this "future husband" of hers will die young and she will inherit his wealth. Due to this fortune telling, Guess what was the consequence of that "fortune telling"? The mother, who was there with her daughter when the fortune was read, advised her daughter not to be so committed to her current boyfriend after that. What do you think about that? For me, this is pure silliness. It's like trying to make the fortune teller's "story" come true. It's ridiculous!

  
  Face reading is even worse. Those with crooked nose are said to be dishonest, manipulative and cannot be trusted. I think I have read that somewhere. There are feng shui masters who had even publish this in newspapers and magazines. But yet, they have the cheek to put in a caveat to advise people not to be judgemental. Now, how do we not be judgemental when you have already warned us about people with crooked nose? Just imagine how people with crooked nose will feel. They will surely feel humiliated. And worse, if human resource managers in every corporation were to know about this and believe it. Then people with crooked nose will never get a decent job.

  
  Look, even if those "affairs" and "split with current boyfriend" are in the destiny charts, we know that in Buddhism nothing is inherently there. The same is true for our destiny. Destiny is not just made up of previous karma, but fresh new causes and condition that keep coming together and changing all the time. It is never carved in steel. There is no such thing as a destiny book where all our lives' paths are written. It's a fiction. A myth. Even if there is, we will realise that the writings on the book keeps on changing every moment. So, our destiny's constantly changing. The palm and time of birth only captures a snapshot of our destiny at a particular point in time. It's like a Balance Sheet. If you know accounting, a Balance Sheet captures a snapshot of the asset and liabilities of the company on a certain date. The next day's Balance Sheet will look different. Same with our destiny. It keeps on changing based on fresh causes and conditions that are very complicated and inter-dependent. Never fall for fatalistic comments by irresponsible or unwise people. They are unwise because they could have given better dharma advice to these people so that they could make their own decisions on a better platform.

  
  There are many other examples that can be cited here that tell of irresponsible fortune tellers who not only not helping people but end up ruining the very lives they are suppsoed to help. Isn't that a pity? More negative karma created for themselves, probably.

  
  Remember this - OUR DESTINY IS ALWAYS IN OUR OWN HANDS...I don't mean it's those lines on your palms. But I mean, DON'T LET FORTUNE TELLING DECIDE 100%FOR US, ...You can consider what was said by the fortune teller ...BUT YOU SHOULD DECIDE BASE ON A SOUNDER PLATFORM, i.e. on WISDOM and COMPASSION... and definitely, LOADS OF COMMON SENSE.
• Weychin

  28 Mar 10, 18:38

  Negative side of fortune telling: self fulfilling prophecy

   

• Weychin

  28 Mar 10, 18:39

  Negative side of fortune telling: self fulfilling prophecies

   

• Weychin

  28 Mar 10, 18:42

  Negative side of fortune telling: self fulfilling prophecies

   

• Rooney9

  28 Mar 10, 18:48

  fortune telling is an inferior arts.

   

• TTFU

  28 Mar 10, 18:51

  The more you know doesnt equal to the better you are. Live like yourself everyday aka Jiao ta Shi di, An Fen shou ji Will do. Feeling sick, just see a doctor, feeling tired just sleep. Fortune telling to me is like entertainment. Will you become depress when the guy tells you, you are going to die ? I hope not.

  Thus Belive the good things, F the bad things. Your life is in your hands.

• An Eternal Now

  28 Mar 10, 19:26

  Thanks. That's why it's important not to be superstitious...

• geis

  28 Mar 10, 20:30

  Originally posted by wisdomeye:

  Got from a Buddhist blog.  Not sure if suitable for here. But thot-provoking... not that i'm against fortune telling, but we shd see issues from several angles.

  ---------------------------------------

  Negative Side of Art of Fortune Telling

  There are many people now who are attarcted to the art of Feng Shui. Once people learn Feng Shui, they will naturally learn Bazi too. That's the art of fortune telling based on the date and hour of birth of the person. There are many positive aspects of fortune telling. If done correctly, you could possibly direct a person to much fulfilment in life. Perhaps you will be more certain of which career you should be pursuing, and what are the pitfalls you should watch out for.

  
  The problem with Bazi reading (like palm reading, face reading and others) is that it gives the person whom it is read a feeling of his/her destiny being etched permanently. That's what most Bazi readers will tell you, i.e. you can't change your destiny. But then, those unscrupulous readers will then offer "extra services" to their clients for "purify" away those bad fortunes that they have predicted. And these "extra services" often are costly. I think it is irresponsible for such fortune tellers to be telling a happy couple (with no affairs at all at that time) that one of them will be having affairs and that he/she can purify away such misfortune by paying him thousands of dollars. He would tell the couple he has a Thai master or he knows of some Thai monks who can look into past lives and with some prayers he can eliminate the potential affair. Lots of couples have fallen for that and have parted with thousands of dollars to such unscrupulous fortune tellers. I know of men whose wives had never had any doubt on them before, would thereafter start worrying if their husbands will cheat on the wives. And the wives continue to give their husbands headache after headache and not a shadow of any mistress can be seen...yet.

  
  And those people with mistresses, they often failed to see that coming. Take a peron I know for instance. Her husband was caught having an affair. When she came to me to voice her frustrations, I asked her if she had ever had her foprtune read based on her date of birth or palms, and she confirmed that her fortune teller told her that she will not suffer from her spouse having affairs.

  
  Then there was another case of a young girl who was told that her current boyfriend would not be her future husband but would be parting from her soon. Her daughter was told that she will meet another guy (much older than her) who is rich but will not have a smooth lovey-dovey life with her. The good news is, according to the fortune teller, is that this "future husband" of hers will die young and she will inherit his wealth. Due to this fortune telling, Guess what was the consequence of that "fortune telling"? The mother, who was there with her daughter when the fortune was read, advised her daughter not to be so committed to her current boyfriend after that. What do you think about that? For me, this is pure silliness. It's like trying to make the fortune teller's "story" come true. It's ridiculous!

  
  Face reading is even worse. Those with crooked nose are said to be dishonest, manipulative and cannot be trusted. I think I have read that somewhere. There are feng shui masters who had even publish this in newspapers and magazines. But yet, they have the cheek to put in a caveat to advise people not to be judgemental. Now, how do we not be judgemental when you have already warned us about people with crooked nose? Just imagine how people with crooked nose will feel. They will surely feel humiliated. And worse, if human resource managers in every corporation were to know about this and believe it. Then people with crooked nose will never get a decent job.

  
  Look, even if those "affairs" and "split with current boyfriend" are in the destiny charts, we know that in Buddhism nothing is inherently there. The same is true for our destiny. Destiny is not just made up of previous karma, but fresh new causes and condition that keep coming together and changing all the time. It is never carved in steel. There is no such thing as a destiny book where all our lives' paths are written. It's a fiction. A myth. Even if there is, we will realise that the writings on the book keeps on changing every moment. So, our destiny's constantly changing. The palm and time of birth only captures a snapshot of our destiny at a particular point in time. It's like a Balance Sheet. If you know accounting, a Balance Sheet captures a snapshot of the asset and liabilities of the company on a certain date. The next day's Balance Sheet will look different. Same with our destiny. It keeps on changing based on fresh causes and conditions that are very complicated and inter-dependent. Never fall for fatalistic comments by irresponsible or unwise people. They are unwise because they could have given better dharma advice to these people so that they could make their own decisions on a better platform.

  
  There are many other examples that can be cited here that tell of irresponsible fortune tellers who not only not helping people but end up ruining the very lives they are suppsoed to help. Isn't that a pity? More negative karma created for themselves, probably.

  
  Remember this - OUR DESTINY IS ALWAYS IN OUR OWN HANDS...I don't mean it's those lines on your palms. But I mean, DON'T LET FORTUNE TELLING DECIDE 100%FOR US, ...You can consider what was said by the fortune teller ...BUT YOU SHOULD DECIDE BASE ON A SOUNDER PLATFORM, i.e. on WISDOM and COMPASSION... and definitely, LOADS OF COMMON SENSE.

  just wanna add 1 cents worth on the subject of bazi and traditional fengshui as this is the only area where i have done some studying.

  firstly i do agree with the blogger that what he described are all the negative aspects which were the result of exploitation of the fear and greed of people by some individuals claiming to be experts in bazi. my foray into learning the basics of bazi came as a result of similar past experiences.

  upon some basic readings, it is then that i regard bazi as a subject not unlike any kind of science we learn in school. it is a study based on observations and the recording of the results of these observations. the true spirit of this subject is also that of encouraging hardwork and the actual study is dynamic and not fatalistic as it involves the canon of change. of cos wont be dwelling into the technicalities here.

  more importantly is the understanding of the subject and the context. sad to say the general understanding and approach of people towards bazi is that of superstition driven by hope of gain and fear of loss, and it is this that has caused the whole commercialisation and warping of this subject. this perception of bazi is not unlike the perception of buddhism as a idol worshipping religion.

  of cos then again, such studies are conditional in nature, and only in practicing buddhism can a person learn to see these in a balanced perspective. without this balanced perspective, bazi will only be regarded as a tool for fortune telling with absurd advises spanning from avoiding certain kind of food or colour or the like to getting a partner born under certain animal signs.

  hopefully this 1 cents worth dont incite too much controversy.

• wisdomeye

  28 Mar 10, 21:33

  Originally posted by geis:

  upon some basic readings, it is then that i regard bazi as a subject not unlike any kind of science we learn in school. it is a study based on observations and the recording of the results of these observations. the true spirit of this subject is also that of encouraging hardwork and the actual study is dynamic and not fatalistic as it involves the canon of change. of cos wont be dwelling into the technicalities here.

  more importantly is the understanding of the subject and the context. sad to say the general understanding and approach of people towards bazi is that of superstition driven by hope of gain and fear of loss, and it is this that has caused the whole commercialisation and warping of this subject. this perception of bazi is not unlike the perception of buddhism as a idol worshipping religion.

  of cos then again, such studies are conditional in nature, and only in practicing buddhism can a person learn to see these in a balanced perspective. without this balanced perspective, bazi will only be regarded as a tool for fortune telling with absurd advises spanning from avoiding certain kind of food or colour or the like to getting a partner born under certain animal signs.

  
  dear geis,

  no, i dun think this will stir up any controversy.  Your viewpoint is very good. And I like it very much.  this is what i mean by different angles on the same topic.  Furthermore, you have taken the trouble to go into Bazi and learn it and see it from a deeper perspective. I trust that you have insight.

  thanks to everyone for posting your opinion. 

   

• TTFU

  28 Mar 10, 21:38

  True. Not criticising on anything here, just saying life is in your hands, work hard and be strong in whatever you do. =)
  

• Weychin

  28 Mar 10, 22:24

  First, sorry for multiple post!

  This was something which learnt later, when my mother was younger, she was given the prediction that she would be in a crisis at the age of 58, meaning she might die at 58.

  And she really did die at age 58, and in hindsight, she went about clearing any unfinished business around two years earlier before she past on. She was quite fatalistic about her destiny which I did'nt quite understand then.

  At that time is is popular for Ah Sohs to reading their fortunes, visit mediums, especially to ask for luck, 4d numbers etc.  

  When one is insecure and unsure of one destiny, one can easily take blind faith in such fortune tellers, especially when the fortune teller is "ling yan", or able to accurately tell some past events.

• TTFU

  28 Mar 10, 22:29

  With no dis-respect to fortune telling and stuff. I still stand by my point. Believe in the good things, F the bad. Your destiny is in your hands. Just like some saying i heared when playing basketball. The match doesnt end when you lose, it ends when you give up. So have some believe and faith in yourself. Moral of story =)

• googoomuck

  28 Mar 10, 22:46

  Originally posted by TTFU:

  With no dis-respect to fortune telling and stuff. I still stand by my point. Believe in the good things, F the bad. Your destiny is in your hands. Just like some saying i heared when playing basketball. The match doesnt end when you lose, it ends when you give up. So have some believe and faith in yourself. Moral of story =)

  If you lose means it's the end.

• Alucardo79

  29 Mar 10, 09:18

  Interesting. It reminds me of Liao Fan Si Xun. Basically it talks about how this person changed his destiny even though he met this very accurate fortune teller..

  Do more good deeds, gain more positive karma, dedicate the merits to your past live enemies, parents, etc... things will get better...

  cheers

• wisdomeye

  29 Mar 10, 14:36

  i think BAZI & fengshui has its merits in that it can help diagnose and solve some quite immediate problems.  But Buddhist practice goes to the root of suffering.  Many people approach Buddhism hoping for help in immediate problems too and are disappointed so they resort to occult ways of solving the problem. 

  In fact, Buddhism often asks people to accept suffering, face suffering and transform suffering. And at the same time, practise on the path of the fourth noble truth. Because many things are karma-related and also because the effort of escaping suffering engenders more unnecessary suffering.  The nature of samsara  is suffering, it shdn't be any surprise that we have so many problems, but who likes to hear this?

  It shd be noted that all these BAZI & Fengshui etc are like temporary painkillers whereas Buddhism cures your sickness. The temporary relief of pain may seem like happiness, but by Buddhist definition, it is not really happiness but 'suffering in disguise'. If you put your total hope into all these 'painkillers' then IMO, that's where the problem arise.

   

   

• geis

  29 Mar 10, 19:27

  Originally posted by wisdomeye:

  
  dear geis,

  no, i dun think this will stir up any controversy.  Your viewpoint is very good. And I like it very much.  this is what i mean by different angles on the same topic.  Furthermore, you have taken the trouble to go into Bazi and learn it and see it from a deeper perspective. I trust that you have insight.

  thanks to everyone for posting your opinion. 

   

  your words are too kind, gave me a chance to catch up with an 'old friend' who excitedly kept talking about himself, took awhile before he got bored repeating the same stories again and again haha :P

• Dawnfirstlight

  30 Mar 10, 10:39

  Let me share with you guys my story. Before I became a practicing Buddhist, I went to seek fortune telling once. It cost me $80 and the fortune teller was very accurate in telling my past. He told me at certain age, I would lose a big amount of money (ç ´è´¢). I was quite worried and wondering what could have made me lost money.

  One day when I went to renew my fixed deposit, I was persuaded by the banker to buy Lehman mini bonds and other structured finance products (this was before Lehman brothers collapsed). He told me the basic was guaranteed and I really listened to him and invested. When I went home, one of my family member asked about my fixed deposit and luckily she asked. Immediately she brought me to cancel it because she said it was not secured compared with normal fixed deposit. I was angry with her because it was so embarrassing to cancel on the very day, I bought it just 15 minutes ago!

  Lehman brothers collapsed on the same year that the fortune teller predicted that I would lose a big sum of money. The year he predicted I would lose money had long past and nothing had happened. Thus, I am sure he was talking about the Lehman brothers thingy.

  I believe it was that I heeded Buddha's advice to accumulate enough merits to change my future predictions.

  Thus, I advise practicing Buddhists not to seek fortune tellling because the future is in our hands. Anyway as I mentioned before, true fortune teller will not entertain real practicing Buddhists because they are unable to see our future.

• wisdomeye

  30 Mar 10, 12:44

  Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:

  Thus, I advise practicing Buddhists not to seek fortune tellling because the future is in our hands. Anyway as I mentioned before, true fortune teller will not entertain real practicing Buddhists because they are unable to see our future.

  
  yes, practise well, even features on face and other parts of body will change, how to predict, kekeke...

   

   

• Weychin

  30 Mar 10, 12:52

  There is a chinese saying"ke xin bu ke mi" , hope I translate it correctly; " you may believe but do not obsess" 

• Spnw07

  1 Apr 10, 22:33

  Let me share my thoughts about fortune-telling.

  Fortune-telling by itself is not really harmful, something like sex, but unlike drugs. However without the right motivation and right understanding, fortune-telling can become harmful; as in being manipulative, too edgy, too picky with people and things, fatalistic, etc...

  Among the numerous titles of Buddhist scriptures, there is one Buddhist scripture that describes a method similar to fortune-telling.

  http://www.fofaseng.cn/books2/1263.htm (地è—�å� å¯Ÿå–„æ�¶ä¸šæŠ¥ç»� or Sutra on the Divination of the Effect of Good and Evil Actions)

  Remember Buddhism is not about fatalism or determinism per se, but more about understanding profoundly what are things we can or should change in order to achieve lasting happiness. In that sense we also strive to recognise and understand what we cannot or should not change.

  Liao Fan Shi Xun mentioned about a very accomplished but morally sound fortune-teller who tells things as they are; not to extract money or obtain power from those who approach him.

  The fortune-teller practises Huang Ji Shu - which the later Huang Ji Jing Shi Shu was based on.

  《皇�声音数》

  
      æ­¤æ•°ç�†å‰�é�¢å·²ç»�谈到了，是由陈抟祖师根æ�®36声音字æ¯�é…�å�ˆå…¶ä»–æ•°ç�†ç‹¬åˆ›è€Œæˆ�。全称为《皇æž�声音数》，也å�«å�šã€Šçš‡æž�数》。而å�Žæ�¥çš„宋æœ�易学家邵康节所著《皇æž�ç»�书》中的“观物篇”，便是由《皇æž�声音数》的数ç�†æ¼”å�˜è€Œæˆ�。

   

  至于说到太�派《皇�数》的相关推命事例，早在�了凡所写的《了凡四训》中，就��一斑，其中：为�了凡用《皇�数》数推命的孔�人就是邵康节的门徒。而��渡化�了凡，并指点他修炼�弘扬佛法的云谷禅师，就是陈抟祖师的化身。

  
  The above very briefly describes the history of Huang Ji Shu and its role in ancient real-life accounts such as Liao Fan.

  Do note that the Buddha made perfectly accurate predictions or revelations about the spiritual developments of many of his great disciples at appropriate times. One can refer to the Lotus Sutra in which for some chapters, the Buddha gave predictions of future Buddhahood to many of his disciples listening in. He did not have to resort to any kind of fortune-telling simply because he is a fully enlightened one.

  Even Arahants have the same ability - only less powerful in terms of being only able to see 500 lifetimes into the past and future. The Buddha's ability is that of being able to see into countless lifetimes both in the past and future.

   

• xXIron_fistXx

  5 Apr 10, 11:29

  Say no to fortune telling .

  YEAH ~.

  Kind of supertitious.

• laurence82

  5 Apr 10, 14:06

  Originally posted by xXIron_fistXx:

  Say no to fortune telling .

  YEAH ~.

  Kind of supertitious.

  i agree with u, its akin to bible code and revelations