Budget hotels upset residents
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WHEN businessman Ng Choon Beng moved into his terrace house in Upper Serangoon Road three years ago, the neighbourhood was a quiet, leafy residential area with great food.
Then, Hotel 81 and Fragrance Hotel came up just a few doors away and started offering hourly rates.
'There wasn't much activity at first, but we see a lot more illicit activities going on these days,' said Mr Ng, 38, of his estate, which is next to Upper Serangoon Shopping Centre, about 1km from Kovan MRT station.
'Sometimes cars drive up right outside our house and park there, and then we see these girls and their clients walking towards the hotels; we've even witnessed money transactions taking place.'
When his wife walks to a nearby provision shop to buy groceries, men waiting around the hotels and KTV lounges would stare at her or even proposition her. Mr Ng's neighbours are equally upset by the new people on the block. They are unwelcome in a residential area and they have caused parking woes, said residents.
Since budget hotels began springing up in residential areas like Kovan, Tiong Bahru and Balestier in the past two years, sex workers have also started appearing.
-- ST
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Joo Chiat is now less sleazy
THE sleaze in Joo Chiat has shrivelled.
The 'hundreds' of women who used to walk the street at night have fallen to about 40 to 50, according to the area's MP Chan Soo Sen. 'I make it a point to look at (the situation) every week and have a rough count,' he told reporters on Monday.
The vice problem is now confined to a 50m stretch along Joo Chiat Road, he added, and more family-oriented and lifestyle businesses such as food, fashion, advertising, and souvenirs have popped up in the neighbourhood in the last couple of years.
The MP was briefing reporters on the improvements made to the heritage area, ahead of the May 9 ministerial walkabout by Law Minister K. Shanmugam. In 2005, he said, 'hundreds' of women solicited customers along a 1.3km stretch of Joo Chiat Road. Now, the road is quieter and he sees 40 to 50 women on the street when he drives or walks in the area at night.
Sleaze was a political issue in the intense campaign for Joo Chiat during the 2006 General Election. Mr Chan won 65 per cent of the 18,806 valid votes against Workers' Party veteran Tan Bin Seng.
Asked whether he will contest in the next general election, Mr Chan said the decision is up to the leaders of the People's Action Party: 'If they want to field me, I will continue to try and do my best till the last day.'
-- ST
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Hourly hotel rates and Vice, please Say NO.
Actually, just scrap the hourly hotel rate altogether, those who want affordable rest, stay in backpacker hostel cheaper, per day $<40pax , sleep and bathe, share TV all U want, nobody watching, nobody care. If U wan to have luxury of 'hotel' den must pay FULL DAY rates.
If U cannot even afford Hostel den U shouldn't be coming here/ alternatively just sleep on airport sofa- the Eyjafjallajokull volcano 'victims' survived days at Changi Airport, so can U. So not correct say no choice wat. Ditto for the hotel, if cannot 'make it' with daily rates, den U ought to review your market research, maybe 'en-block', become hostel/ residential/ shopping/ office/ warehouse is the way to go. After all if U claim clientele ish coming for 'studies'/ convention, den either way U still earn: cheap rates so they dun mind pay full day use 1/2. Everyone like dat, so focused on 'good work productivity' den U should sell by volume, via cheap rates all year round and still profit some more. If by sheer demand U find that U cannot cope- den u can raise room rates and plan for retirement lor.
Sorry for the digression, me looking for job in hotel management
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Banning hourly rates makes society more stable- less neighborhood complaints, everybody happy (MPs more time relak jack). Moral of story, no free lunch here ok, hotels and their clientele must pay for the luxury they wan to enjoy, cannot have cake and eat it. If customer volume high budget low, open 'backpackers hostel' lah- more beds, cheaper rooms, earn by volume as I said. For mata mata/ SCDF check= easy, one look can tell no hanky panky, girl wan room, boy the other, ditto the toilets like parliament house like dat, everything clean and organized, they check until cannot be bothered to check again.
A hotel is NOT a brothel, and should never be mistaken for one.
Dis is Singapore, we are totally focused on total defense.
We are not in the business of operating ANY brother activities.
Thanks for your kind cooperation.
References:Quote:Hourly rates not only for vice
Letter from Tang Li
05:55 AM Apr 30, 2010
I WAS quite amused to read Soh Ah Yuen's letter, "Are hotel hourly rates necessary?" (April 28).
The writer seems to believe that hourly rates at hotels are a major cause of social ills and banning them will somehow make Singapore a better place. However, if one understands the dynamics of Singapore, one would realise that hourly rates at budget hotels do provide a necessary social service.
First, let's be clear that while hourly rates may be used for sexual activity, that's not always the case.
There are people working the late shift and in a city that hopes to develop a more vibrant "night life", the hourly rates at budget hotels provide an alternative resting place to people who work late - like musicians, waitresses and others in the entertainment industry.
Some people in this industry, through the course of their work, drink heavily.
Some work for establishments that do not provide a transport service that takes them home.
There are those who drive. Surely it is better for people in these situations to have a place to sober up before they drive home than to place them in situations where they feel it's necessary to drive when under the influence of alcohol?
And not all sexual activities that go on in such establishments are between prostitutes and clients.
There are unmarried couples who use these hotels because they don't have privacy in their own homes.
Having budget hotels that charge by the hour provide these couples with a safe and private environment to engage in a private act between consenting adults.
This then leads to the question of "vice". Prostitution is not a pleasant business. However, it has been around for as long as Singapore has.
Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew admits in his biography that prostitution is an industry that is impossible to ban and it is better to have it in the open than driven underground.
Thanks to his pragmatism, Singapore has avoided many of the social ills associated with the business.
We may not like some of the activities that take place in budget hotels but they do provide society with a necessary outlet for certain activities.
So, let's be practical and leave budget hotels as they are and to charge as they please.
- 'TODAY', Apr 22, 2010: Will budget hotels review operations?
- 'TODAY', April 28: 'Are hotel hourly rates necessary?' -
For 'good measure', dis is my heartfelt response:
Quote:Hourly rates not only for vice
Letter from Tang Li
05:55 AM Apr 30, 2010
I WAS quite amused to read Soh Ah Yuen's letter, "Are hotel hourly rates necessary?" (April 28).
The writer seems to believe that hourly rates at hotels are a major cause of social ills and banning them will somehow make Singapore a better place. However, if one understands the dynamics of Singapore, one would realise that hourly rates at budget hotels do provide a necessary social service.Mmm, social service is a positive word, part of the "many helping hands approach" I suppose?...
Quote:First, let's be clear that while hourly rates may be used for sexual activity, that's not always the case.
There are people working the late shift and in a city that hopes to develop a more vibrant "night life", the hourly rates at budget hotels provide an alternative resting place to people who work late - like musicians, waitresses and others in the entertainment industry.Most such people I know check into backpackers hostels, the rates are cheap, the company fun, all artsy/ with a love for adventure, and time for hanky panky whatsoever, at least not in 'expensive' Singapore.
Best thing is, when U put something into the hostel fridge and return for it, U find that it has now often become something else!!! So lives on the magic...Quote:Some people in this industry, through the course of their work, drink heavily.
Some work for establishments that do not provide a transport service that takes them home.If U drink so heavily, U won't last long, n I really doubt You'll be able to make it to the inn in one piece either. U are safer off sleeping in your car or on the streets. If U cannot afford the night bus/ taxi fare home, U are unlikely to be able to afford ANY decent hotel services either. Please take the bus home and get some proper rest, dreaming is best conducted in the safety of your own bed.
Quote:There are those who drive. Surely it is better for people in these situations to have a place to sober up before they drive home than to place them in situations where they feel it's necessary to drive when under the influence of alcohol? N drive to your favorite hotel? WTF, what if they dun have hourly rates, den get back behind the wheel n drive some more?- hoping U make it home??? U shouldn't be colluding with the behaviors of a now notorious Romanian diplomat Dr Ionescu who knocked down 3 pedestrians on his way home in drunken stupor.
Quote:And not all sexual activities that go on in such establishments are between prostitutes and clients.
There are unmarried couples who use these hotels because they don't have privacy in their own homes.Do it properly, get a room with a view, romanticize on the balcony whilst U contemplate your marriage, honeymoon and eternity. If U are the rough and tough budget type, go C4, grab $20 tent, pitch it at East Coast park n u're in business, even starting your date with a romantic tandem bicycle ride, then iced beer by the sea, the plan is yours to decide, U are what u plan to be.
Clean and freshen up facility is open and free 24/7, ditto Changi beach. No need to hurry, no hourly rates, just need some effort with free camp permit booking via internet/ AXS stations. AFAIK, parking is free too.
If it's true love, you'll got the distance, why not?- N these are decent activities are btw conducted in days, not hours.Quote:Having budget hotels that charge by the hour provide these couples with a safe and private environment to engage in a private act between consenting adults. Ditto the above, I repeat, these decent activities are conducted in days, not hours. Of all marriages made in heaven, none are based on 'shot-gun' foundation.
Quote:This then leads to the question of "vice". Prostitution is not a pleasant business. However, it has been around for as long as Singapore has. So have war and drugs and every other criminal activity.
Quote:Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew admits in his biography that prostitution is an industry that is impossible to ban and it is better to have it in the open than driven underground. Or hor, if untrue, dis is certainly slander, if true, den we must all discuss our "Mascot's" POV, is it dated or the prelude to our downfall. Does it devalue society. U can make it election issue if U wan, I'll vote on it if I can.
Quote:Thanks to his pragmatism, Singapore has avoided many of the social ills associated with the business. U into dis fishy business also? Prostitution without social ills..., humph, I'm listening.
Or U an addicted patron in deep denial. Or your lifelihood depends on this 'fringe' activity.Quote:We may not like some of the activities that take place in budget hotels but they do provide society with a necessary outlet for certain activities. The acceptable, few and far between. There is time and place for needs that u have just described. Hotels or backpacker's inns, the Parks are free 24/7; Singapore is a small place, there are certainly no reasons for any in-between.
Quote:So, let's be practical and leave budget hotels as they are and to charge as they please. Sorry, dis is clean and green Singapore, those with finesse, pay by the day. Those who like the great outdoors, do it by the open sea.
Those who "do as they please", these are the morons of our society.
You may now respond.
Have a nice day. -
At least not in residential areas lah.
Got budget hotel means got whores hanging around.
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economics of sex industry should be better understood and will tell you why there are budget hotels and of course brothels....
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Originally posted by Fcukpap:
economics of sex industry should be better understood and will tell you why there are budget hotels and of course brothels....
just like we don't want beggars all over Singapore, we also don't want whores all over residential areas in Singapore. just stick to the standard areas like geylang, orchard towers, desker etc.
don't want whole island to be flooded with fucking whores.
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understand the "unhealthy" enviro....but lets not forget the unlicensed pros or mistresses who engage in casual sex...
everything goes by demand and supply i presume....its all about business and catering to needs and wants....the no. of such hotels increased is also a good indicator of our Sg sex drives...
govt and developers also want more business and economic activities via sex activities...lol
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i ever read online a husband/wife couple go budget hotel coz' renovations still ongoing at home on a saturday and they just wanted to sleep in.
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Sg practised subjective morality in line with economic policies....thus we have casinos finally
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Originally posted by Fcukpap:
understand the "unhealthy" enviro....but lets not forget the unlicensed pros or mistresses who engage in casual sex...
everything goes by demand and supply i presume....its all about business and catering to needs and wants....the no. of such hotels increased is also a good indicator of our Sg sex drives...
govt and developers also want more business and economic activities via sex activities...lol
hey why you keep on slamming women in singapore now defending whores?
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i slam sluts....and from economic policies....this is a view without defending anyone
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ok la...follow your line of thought.....its true and not healthy enviro esp near residential...
but where businesses are concerned..and sexual urge hard to control....beri hard lei
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whatever the case, just don't flood residential areas with fucking whores.
opposition can use this to attack the PAP.
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true...hopefully it could ...
but substantially hard....there should be more on the agendas
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A brothel by any other name, stinks all the same. - Today, 07:06 AMThanks for your response, ya, maybe to you= 'extreme b/w response', but nothing wrong with discussing a 'purist' idea right?Quote:
snipes14, 3May2010, 12:51 PM
I think TS has an extremely black and white way of looking at the world. By the time I was 16 I knew that it was anything but that.
Your opinion, I politely reject.
Dun think my opinions the extreme, think the 'hourly' rates are the 'extreme'.
Serviced apts, by law, as I u'stand, CANNOT rent U apt for <7days- this right is reserved for the benefit of Hotels only. So this aspect the business of genuine hotels and Backpackers inns is established and provided adequately for. For those requiring the facilitation of vice to survive, a better business model is called for and the powers that be ought see to that.
Singapore is a small place, not like maybe M'sia where there is need to stop driving- rest- drive on, Singapore for ANY form of vehicular traffic is often a terminal destination. For those engaging in any decent restful activity, they have ample backpacker's hostels and daily rated budget hotels to choose from. In addition, backpacker's hostels serve a valid tourist niche and Singapore as a safe and healthy destination, should actively promote their proper development as they woo the young and trendy traveler.
In regard to Budget Hotels (BH) running mostly hourly rates, these can at best be described as controversial businesses moving down a slippery slope and, predictably bringing down the morals of Singaporeans with it.
I doubt and tourist inadvertently residing in any such hotel would return with in any way, a good impression Singapore. The streets filled with 'walkers', its 'ti kor pek' citizens- the main clientele.
Romanian diplomat Ionescu undoubtedly went overboard whilst performing his 'duties' here, both 'provider' and connoisseur of vice here, could the conduciveness of the current local scene have played a part?
Hourly rated BH have the commercial imperative towards creating sleazy districts, since by virtue of their business model, they become obligated to promote promiscuity, both nationally as well as internationally. One cannot have one's cake and eat it as the sleaze drives away genuine tourist, leaving the BH with no choice but to exploit the route of sleaze facilitation.
This stratagem also requires a covert means of silencing as well as dispersing dissenting existing residents; and to facilitate profit from the momentum of vice, the compromise of government administration through bribery and other covert/ coercive means towards achieving social degradation.
Government officials can also be expected to be often bribed as the visible viability and 'profitability' of such establishments tempt more to follow.
NONE of the outcomes of such vice are of any social NOR economic benefit to our society nor that of our surrounding neighbors.
Whilst the banning of hourly rates would not preclude such vice from occurring, it would however enable the policing and regulation of such vices to be much done much more efficiently and cost effectively.
The ultimate 'victims' of this current situation would be ultimately be Singaporeans/ 'Permanent residents' of Singapore since tourist on family vacations are unlikely to patronize such services AND require hourly accommodation in this respect.
Persons from neighboring countries might also, through the internet, make 'bookings' with popular girls, however, a host of other problems by association accompany this breed of 'tourist'.
The fiscal and social cost of continuing to allow hourly rated hotels is estimated to be immense not perpetuated by many civil servants, whom I feel are ill prepared to perform the currently onerous duties as 'anti-vice' officers- a few of whom have been publicly admonished having sought favours from charges whom they were employed to supervise/ penalize [Dec 2, 2008: 'ICA officer charged'], [ST 17Nov 2009: '2 NEA officers charged over sexual bribe']. Has promiscuity entrenched itself as popular culture in Singapore such that civil servants are equally tempted. Our 'pay more to prevent corruption' policies have indeed failed.
I have NOT in this current thread, solely premised my arguments upon the problem of 'exploitation'. It is the fabric of trust within our society, that without which, degrades humanity into a zoo of wild animals, no 'progress' is then possible except regression towards extinction if U draw this arguement to its logical conclusion that is.Quote:Originally Posted by snipes14What's wrong with prostitution? Some say that it's evil, that it's exploitation of women.
Prostitution might be an 'ancient profession', yes, but it not be 'facilitated' in the way it currently is in modern day Singapore.
So U do as U wish, with little care nor nor focus on social mores?- No wonder Singapore society is steadily going down the drain.Quote:But there are no moral absolutes in the world:What is evil or not is purely a creation of society.
Ditto answered 3 lines above, and as I later describe, the social cost would be one where even you would be ill equipped to afford/ sustain.Quote:As for exploitation, has the TS considered that there are some women who go into prostitution willingly?
No reason for our govt 'subsidizing' the operations of such Brothels ahem, sorry, Hourly rated budget hotels as they they are now termed. Whose to pay the social costs of the broken marriages, shortened lives (HIV/ other diseases of the like), orphaned children (by parental divorce or by death), Healthcare subsidies for $$$expensive anti-retrovirals, hospitalizations that would be needed, costs of subsidised rental housing for those who have sold their flats and spent their CPF on their 'Geylang hobby' not to mention the immediate and daily cost in policing, monitoring and persecuting offenders, anti-vice officers and even foreign diplomats who themselves are ever so often are tempted to offend and re-offend given the vast loopholes of an unsustainable system.Quote:An article about the legalized prostitution industry in New Zealand:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7927461.stm
So heroin on the streets- willing buyer/ seller is okay, if U indeed are Singaporean, then i really don't blame U cos if U have paraphrased the 'noble' words as quoted in the first post:Quote:The way I see it, its a win win situation. There's a demand, and people willing to satisfy that demand for money.
"... Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew admits in his biography that prostitution is an industry that is impossible to ban and it is better to have it in the open than driven underground....", replacing the term 'prostitution' with any other vice for that matter, wouldn't be too far fetched an argument to ponder.
Perhaps then it wouldn't be too unwise to leave when things get out-of-hand and let the vultures fester.
U tell me, U reap what U sow, and 'Rome wasn't built in a day', cheap and abundant vice would indeed be the downfall of our society.Quote:If it's banned, where are people going to get their release?
Good luck and God Bless.
Rgds,
C6.
References:
- HWZ Thread, 1April2010: 'Romanian diplomat Ionescu was the driver in fatal hit-and-run'
- ST Dec 2, 2008: 'ICA officer charged': "... Chung was charged in a district court on Tuesday for allegedly receiving sexual favours on five occasions from 36-year-old Chinese national Li Yanxiu. Court documents state that in return, he had recommended her Special Pass be extended. ..."
- ST 17Nov 2009: '2 NEA officers charged over sexual bribe': "... Mohamed Rafi Abdul Alim, 32, was a Certis Cisco Security enforcement officer when he allegedly attempted to get sexual service from a 15-year-old girl in return for not taking action against her for smoking-related offences on March 10. ... " -
Joo Chiat's sleaze reduced substantially, says law minister
SINGAPORE : Law Minister K Shanmugam said sleaze in the Joo Chiat area has been substantially reduced over the last few years.
And this can be seen from the dwindling number of vice activities as well as establishments like pubs and massage parlours.
Over the years, the number of pubs in the Joo Chiat area has gone down from 46 to 28.
And this is even more significant for massage parlours. While the area used to have about 30 massage parlours, it is now down to only three.
Responding to a query on what more the government is doing to clean up the area, Mr Shanmugam said the various agencies have been working together to control vice there.
"A decision has been taken since January of 2009 by the STB (Singapore Tourism Board), on the urging of the MP and the Joo Chiat task force, that hotels will not be allowed to charge transit rates anymore, by the hour. So that's in place now and that applies for newer as well as current hotels," said Mr Shanmugam, who is also the Second Minister for Home Affairs.
The number of women picked up for vice in the area has also dropped drastically over the years - from 400 in 2007, to less than 40 last year.
Last year, the police arrested some 7,600 female foreigners for vice-related activities, up from the 5,000 the year before - mainly because of stepped-up enforcement action.
During the dialogue session, a resident asked if the authority will be doing more to curb vice in outdoor refreshment areas.
Mr Shanmugam said it is simply not possible to push all businesses indoors because some just don't have the space.
He added that a practical and fairly strict approach has been taken towards the outdoor refreshment areas.
"We have been refusing applications for putting tables and chairs outside wherever it's feasible to do so. It cannot be done in every single establishment, but wherever it's feasible to do so we've been doing that," said Mr Shanmugam.
During the hour-long forum, Mr Shanmugam also touched on issues such as traffic in the Joo Chiat area and foreign workers.- CNA /ls
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Originally posted by Vote PAP OUT to Save SG:
At least not in residential areas lah.
Got budget hotel means got whores hanging around.
Joo Chiat, Baliester Road all have housing, even along Pasir Panjang Rd towards NUS... got Quickie Hotels... SingApore Not big you know ??