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Can cleaners survive on $1,000 a month?

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  • Clivebenss's Avatar
    20,216 posts since Feb '10
    • Feb 22, 2012 - ST Forum

      WHILE applauding the town councils for helping cleaners of Housing Board blocks to earn $1,000 a month from $750, we should wonder how cleaners manage to live on such a salary, given the steep cost of living ('Town council cleaners get more pay now'; yesterday).

      Kaliannan Tamilselvam

  • ahRichard's Avatar
    220 posts since Jan '12
  • ^Acid^ aka s|aO^eH~'s Avatar
    30,064 posts since Oct '02
    • I'm so touched by Mr/Mrs/Mdm Tamilselvam concern for the welfare of the cleaners...

       

       

      now would Tamilselvam volunteer to help top up the pay for the cleaners? icon_lol.gif

  • charlize's Avatar
    30,192 posts since Mar '05
    • And we have people saying getting paid less than a million dollars means having to cut their standard of living significantly. icon_lol.gif

  • Sky_Blue223's Avatar
    126 posts since Dec '11
    • If they can't survive on that extra money, why not ask them to upgrade themselves instead of blaming the small paycheck?

      Hell. $1000 for sweeping the floor ONLY leh. Like that housewives should earn $5000 from their husbands?

  • ^Acid^ aka s|aO^eH~'s Avatar
    30,064 posts since Oct '02
    • Originally posted by charlize:

      And we have people saying getting paid less than a million dollars means having to cut their standard of living significantly. icon_lol.gif

      now we know, our standard of living is below dirt icon_lol.gif

  • charlize's Avatar
    30,192 posts since Mar '05
    • Originally posted by Sky_Blue223:

      If they can't survive on that extra money, why not ask them to upgrade themselves instead of blaming the small paycheck?

      Hell. $1000 for sweeping the floor ONLY leh. Like that housewives should earn $5000 from their husbands?

      Upgrade to what?

       

      Lawyers? Doctors? icon_lol.gif

  • Sky_Blue223's Avatar
    126 posts since Dec '11
  • charlize's Avatar
    30,192 posts since Mar '05
    • Originally posted by Sky_Blue223:

      You stupid? icon_lol.gif

      Sorry.

       

      My bad.

       

      Upgrade to CEOs and board directors of MNCs. icon_lol.gif

  • Clivebenss's Avatar
    20,216 posts since Feb '10
  • mancha's Avatar
    8,961 posts since Sep '04
    • Cleaning companies should ask propective employees this question?

      "You come here for what?

      Ans: "To work." - This anwer throw the fella out.

      Ans: "To clean." - This is the right attitude. Take him or her.

      Many cleaners just perform their task with the broom, mops, wipers, and considers the job done. 

      Clean or not is irrelevant. Tell them the area they have done is still not clean, they balk and say they have already done that area, their job done. 

      They should come to clean, not work.  They should see and do whatever necessary without being told. Firms would pay a premium for such company with such cleaners. This means the cleaning company is a professional company, and their cleaners could easily earn more than the market rate.

      Frankly I have seen mentally challenged, or physically challenged cleaners with the right attitude. And the able bodied uncles and aunties are the vomit blood ones. They spoil the market and keep cleaners wages down.

  • troublemaker2005's Avatar
    8,443 posts since Dec '05
    • my company cleaner super - she tok to another colleague and look at him her hand can still sweep the floor. super. shows that her mind is elsewhere, while she work all teh action is auto matic one. i have been observing her - working when she see people around only, and when men go in toilet she folow, especially me go toilet she like to wait ans kaykay go inside toilet sukasuka 1 icon_lol.gif

       

      a bit crazy siao 1. icon_lol.gif

  • Summer hill's Avatar
    6,612 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Sky_Blue223:

      If they can't survive on that extra money, why not ask them to upgrade themselves instead of blaming the small paycheck?

      Hell. $1000 for sweeping the floor ONLY leh. Like that housewives should earn $5000 from their husbands?

      Erm...upgrade to.....

      Govt govt welfare receptions. icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif

  • TheCritic's Avatar
    14 posts since Feb '12
    • can they survive? average price of five roomer: 500-600k average price of 3 roomer: 300-400k. then theres education, food, tax, bus fares. can a cleaner afford to send his kid up to uni?( the ONLY surefire way to get a 'stable' job is thru the uni, im talking local.) 

      mind you, NOT every kid is a genius, even less are bothered to study in this crappy educational system we live in.

       

      if thecleaner's a single, good for him. IF he's a family man? what's this? a new mtheod of birth control?

      Edited by TheCritic 23 Feb `12, 11:53PM
  • Sky_Blue223's Avatar
    126 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by TheCritic:

      can they survive? average price of five roomer: 500-600k average price of 3 roomer: 300-400k. then theres education, food, tax, bus fares. can a cleaner afford to send his kid up to uni?( the ONLY surefire way to get a 'stable' job is thru the uni, im talking local.) 

      mind you, NOT every kid is a genius, even less are bothered to study in this crappy educational system we live in.

       

      if thecleaner's a single, good for him. IF he's a family man? what's this? a new mtheod of birth control?

      You are fucking naive.

      You take the average lifestyle of a normal Singaporean against the earning income of the bottom tier of Singaporeans, AND you expect it to work? Then kpkb say it is a new method of birth control? WTF! Use your brain!

      First of all, why did they become cleaners? By choice or by situational factors? I can safely assume that NO ONE aspires to be a cleaner and he/she should have very low (educational) qualifications to be a cleaner. As such, I can infer the way they have lead their lifestyle for the past 30 years(?).

      Let's take a ah beng who have wasted his life away and landed up as a cleaner. What you are proposing is that while other Singaporeans have worked hard their whole life, the ah beng who wasted his time doing nothing should have the SAME lifestyle as those who worked long hours for many years? Where is your fucking logic????

      (Ofcourse there are some cleaners who do it as part time but that's another story.)

      And KNN, you are saying that being a cleaner, I can just sweep the floor and I SHOULD have enough salary to send my kids to universities? Then who want to work hard in Singapore??

      So if cleaners are paid 2.7k(about the average Singaporean pay), then the prices of everything is going to increase no? Then you will kpkb again.

      I don't know why I'm so pissed by such a post. Not that I am particularly new to such brainless comments. The only point that could be right in your post is that we have a crappy educational system. That might explain why you are so full of shit.

      Fuck man. Do you guys even think before you post? Then when people flame you back, you just take the high stand and say "Why so serious?". How are you going to gain the respect of others. Knn. No wonder forever hide in some online forum and kpkb at the government at how pathetic your life is.

  • Summer hill's Avatar
    6,612 posts since Dec '11
  • βέτά's Avatar
    2,466 posts since Jan '10
    •  

      high paying "professionals" cost of living for a month:

       

      Food: 3 meals (cai png) x $3.00 x 30 days = $270

      Transport: 2 trips x $1.50 x 30 days = $90

      Utilities: say $80

      Medical: $40

      Clothing: $60

      Miscellaneous: $100

      Rental of 2 room HDB: say $150

       

      Not bad. Still have $10 leftover from salary. icon_lol.gif

       

      If you have husband and wife working as cleaner making 2 x $1000, then they are not eligible for cheap HDB rental flats. icon_lol.gif

       

  • TheCritic's Avatar
    14 posts since Feb '12
    • Originally posted by Sky_Blue223:

      You are fucking naive.

      You take the average lifestyle of a normal Singaporean against the earning income of the bottom tier of Singaporeans, AND you expect it to work? Then kpkb say it is a new method of birth control? WTF! Use your brain!

      First of all, why did they become cleaners? By choice or by situational factors? I can safely assume that NO ONE aspires to be a cleaner and he/she should have very low (educational) qualifications to be a cleaner. As such, I can infer the way they have lead their lifestyle for the past 30 years(?).

      Let's take a ah beng who have wasted his life away and landed up as a cleaner. What you are proposing is that while other Singaporeans have worked hard their whole life, the ah beng who wasted his time doing nothing should have the SAME lifestyle as those who worked long hours for many years? Where is your fucking logic????

      (Ofcourse there are some cleaners who do it as part time but that's another story.)

      And KNN, you are saying that being a cleaner, I can just sweep the floor and I SHOULD have enough salary to send my kids to universities? Then who want to work hard in Singapore??

      So if cleaners are paid 2.7k(about the average Singaporean pay), then the prices of everything is going to increase no? Then you will kpkb again.

      I don't know why I'm so pissed by such a post. Not that I am particularly new to such brainless comments. The only point that could be right in your post is that we have a crappy educational system. That might explain why you are so full of shit.

      Fuck man. Do you guys even think before you post? Then when people flame you back, you just take the high stand and say "Why so serious?". How are you going to gain the respect of others. Knn. No wonder forever hide in some online forum and kpkb at the government at how pathetic your life is.

      Hoho, what a joke. fine. i'm naive. YOU? let's see.... we'll use the AVERAGE income of a 'professional', white collared singapore and see how THEY survive, kay?

       

      HMM..... we use the example of a couple with NO car and a couple with two kids and NO car, shall we? we shall use the idea of a mth equalling 30 days, or 4 weeks

       

      FOOD? 

      couple: 30 days* $50(dun be stupid and tell me they can survive on 3$ a day =_= what are we? beggars?) = 1.5k a mth for TWO people in Singapore 

      family: 30 days* 50$(for the two 'highly' paid professionals) + 2*30*6$ = 1.86k

      TRANSPORT?

      couple: 3 trips*1.50*30days= 90$ + extras like taxis esp if they're in the business sector(100$)

      family: $90+ 2*10$*2(ez link topups of 10$ every two wks)+100 = 210

      UTILITY BILLS?

      average electricity bills of a four person family living in a 3 room flat: $250-300

      MISC(ie. tuition, leisure, comestics, blah blah)?

      couple: around 500-1.2k?(i shall be conservative and use 600$) 

      Family: around $800(up to 2k once the kids hit JC or poly)

       

      LIVING UNDER A ROOF

      cost of standard 3 room flat(just enough to fit a family of four): 350-500k

      cost of standard 5 room flat/executive: 600-650k

      cost of DBSS(shithole flats with no utilities): upwards of 560k, up to 880k

      mothly rental for average 3 roomer: 2500$

       

      total cost for a couple: up to $5090/ mth

      total cost for family: an upwards of 6k/mth

       

      total combined income after the govt snaps up ur CPF and tax: less than 4k/mth

      tell me, WHO THE HELL IS BEING NAIVE HERE? you come in and DARE lecture me and YET argue tht the average 'professional' earns SOOOO MUCH of 2.7k(EXLCUDING TAX AND CPF, fucking retard) and how all cleaners are BORN STUPID. ARE GANGSTERS. DON'T deserve a proper life. AND I QUOTE from the awesome poster before me: "still have 10$ over from salary" AFTER SURVIVING ON 3$ a day for BREAKFAST, LUNCH AND DINNER. if according to your point, let's classify Singapore society this way: cleaners: the SCUM of SG. dirt. deserve PEANUTS. WHY? oh, they're STUPID, useless to society,oh, the standards of lving and govt are enuf!                                  

       

                                                  IS IT?

      then you rage abt how i criticise the Govt. i DO IT WITH GOOD REASON. you NAIVELY point out how an average singaporean working in the 'professional' whitecollar sector earns 2.7k a mth. I SHOWED YOU. IS THT meagre shit ENOUGH to survive HERE?

      and YET we pay our dear president millions, we pay our ministers millions, justifying that ONLY THOSE AT THE TOP EARNING THE MOST DESERVE A SHOT(god knows how they even got there), we raise our property prices and car prices to levels almost highest in the world.

      Singapore is already SE's most expensive city.

       

      ASPIRING to be a cleaner? wtf? u think those cleaners have a damn choice? have you even seen the age of most of them? average cleaner age: 70. what the hell is the govt doing when foriegn tourists complain to the straits times that the elderly are EVERYWHERE cleaning our shit and we pay them PEANUTS?

      WHAT MORE DO I HAVE TO SAY?

       

      And REATRDED, misguided posts like yours pisss me off as well, hmm?

       

      perhaps you should pull that stupid GOLDEN spoon out of ur ass and look outside ur bungalow. THERE IS a world out there, and IT IS suffering. too much propanganda for you, huh? must have shrunk your naive little brain =p

       

      come come, i love these little debates(is it even one when i'm talking to a brainless rich kid like you?) where ppl looove flaming without first looking outside their own window =)

      i read in another thread YOU started on why you cant seem to understand why we, basically all the forumers her cant stand the govt. HERE IT IS IN A DAMN NUTSHELL.

      CANT SEE? like i said, get ur stupid head outta ur ass.

      Edited by TheCritic 24 Feb `12, 12:16PM
  • BotaHead's Avatar
    963 posts since Mar '08
    • wow, 2 diff report and figures. lol

      ok maybe i go work as a cleaner and see i can survive on the $1000 income for a month then i come here and post again.

      btw cleaner pay is between $600 - $800 per month hor not $1000 har

  • Clivebenss's Avatar
    20,216 posts since Feb '10
  • Sky_Blue223's Avatar
    126 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by TheCritic:

      oho, what a joke. fine. i'm naive. YOU? let's see.... we'll use the AVERAGE income of a 'professional', white collared singapore and see how THEY survive, kay?

       

      HMM..... we use the example of a couple with NO car and a couple with two kids and NO car, shall we? we shall use the idea of a mth equalling 30 days, or 4 weeks

       

      FOOD? 

      couple: 30 days* $50(dun be stupid and tell me they can survive on 3$ a day =_= what are we? beggars?) = 1.5k a mth for TWO people in Singapore 

      family: 30 days* 50$(for the two 'highly' paid professionals) + 2*30*6$ = 1.86k

      TRANSPORT?

      couple: 3 trips*1.50*30days= 90$ + extras like taxis esp if they're in the business sector(100$)

      family: $90+ 2*10$*2(ez link topups of 10$ every two wks)+100 = 210

      UTILITY BILLS?

      average electricity bills of a four person family living in a 3 room flat: $250-300

      MISC(ie. tuition, leisure, comestics, blah blah)?

      couple: around 500-1.2k?(i shall be conservative and use 600$) 

      Family: around $800(up to 2k once the kids hit JC or poly)

       

      LIVING UNDER A ROOF

      cost of standard 3 room flat(just enough to fit a family of four): 350-500k

      cost of standard 5 room flat/executive: 600-650k

      cost of DBSS(shithole flats with no utilities): upwards of 560k, up to 880k

      mothly rental for average 3 roomer: 2500$

       

      total cost for a couple: up to $5090/ mth

      total cost for family: an upwards of 6k/mth

       

      total combined income after the govt snaps up ur CPF and tax: less than 4k/mth

      tell me, WHO THE HELL IS BEING NAIVE HERE? you come in and DARE lecture me and YET argue tht the average 'professional' earns SOOOO MUCH of 2.7k(EXLCUDING TAX AND CPF, fucking retard) and how all cleaners are BORN STUPID. ARE GANGSTERS. DON'T deserve a proper life. AND I QUOTE from the awesome poster before me: "still have 10$ over from salary" AFTER SURVIVING ON 3$ a day for BREAKFAST, LUNCH AND DINNER. if according to your point, let's classify Singapore society this way: cleaners: the SCUM of SG. dirt. deserve PEANUTS. WHY? oh, they're STUPID, useless to society,oh, the standards of lving and govt are enuf!                                  

       

                                                  IS IT?

      then you rage abt how i criticise the Govt. i DO IT WITH GOOD REASON. you NAIVELY point out how an average singaporean working in the 'professional' whitecollar sector earns 2.7k a mth. I SHOWED YOU. IS THT meagre shit ENOUGH to survive HERE?

      and YET we pay our dear president millions, we pay our ministers millions, justifying that ONLY THOSE AT THE TOP EARNING THE MOST DESERVE A SHOT(god knows how they even got there), we raise our property prices and car prices to levels almost highest in the world.

      Singapore is already SE's most expensive city.

       

      ASPIRING to be a cleaner? wtf? u think those cleaners have a damn choice? have you even seen the age of most of them? average cleaner age: 70. what the hell is the govt doing when foriegn tourists complain to the straits times that the elderly are EVERYWHERE cleaning our shit and we pay them PEANUTS?

      WHAT MORE DO I HAVE TO SAY?

       

      And REATRDED, misguided posts like yours pisss me off as well, hmm?

       

      perhaps you should pull that stupid GOLDEN spoon out of ur ass and look outside ur bungalow. THERE IS a world out there, and IT IS suffering. too much propanganda for you, huh? must have shrunk your naive little brain =p

       

      come come, i love these little debates(is it even one when i'm talking to a brainless rich kid like you?) where ppl looove flaming without first looking outside their own window =)

      i read in another thread YOU started on why you cant seem to understand why we, basically all the forumers her cant stand the govt. HERE IT IS IN A DAMN NUTSHELL.

      CANT SEE? like i said, get ur stupid head outta ur ass.

      So funny. You put your calcuations based on your own ideal lifestyle and demand that it is hard/impossible to live with anything lesser.

      I shall explain:

      FOOD? 

      couple: 30 days* $50(dun be stupid and tell me they can survive on 3$ a day =_= what are we? beggars?) = 1.5k a mth for TWO people in Singapore 

      Spending $50 a day on a 2.7k paycheck. What do you spend it on??

       

      family: 30 days* 50$(for the two 'highly' paid professionals) + 2*30*6$ = 1.86k

      This estimate is really off depending on what age the kids are.

      TRANSPORT?

      couple: 3 trips*1.50*30days= 90$ + extras like taxis esp if they're in the business sector(100$)

      Concession. I don't think it's easy to purchase/maintain a car with 2.7k paycheck so I will assume that it is out of the equation.

      family: $90+ 2*10$*2(ez link topups of 10$ every two wks)+100 = 210

      I don't know how you derive such figures but I assume they are necessities.

      UTILITY BILLS?

      average electricity bills of a four person family living in a 3 room flat: $250-300

      This is way off. Even if it is both electricity and water bills. How do you consume so much electricity? A good estimate would be $150 - $170.

      MISC(ie. tuition, leisure, comestics, blah blah)?

      couple: around 500-1.2k?(i shall be conservative and use 600$) 

      Since its for couples, tuition seems out of context. Leisure and comestics $600 per month for a 2.7k paycheck? Wow man. Wow.

      Family: around $800(up to 2k once the kids hit JC or poly)

      This doesn't apply if the kids are in JC as it is subsidied. For poly, it is still not so high as you said. I would assume that the calculation is in mind of expenditure on clothes but still... $800? That's $400 per kid. Minus school fees of $100+(poly) = $300 each month on clothes. Wow.

      total cost for a couple: up to $5090/ mth

      total cost for family: an upwards of 6k/mth

      And oops, you forgot to include money for your parents livelihood.
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Seriously, you are naive. If you earn a low salary, please live within your means. You want to have a comfortable life, work for it. There are so many government policies that can help you if you want to upgrade yourself - to earn a bigger paycheck.

      And no, I did not say cleaners are stupid or are gangsters. For me, I always greet the cleaners at my block and I recently packed a small gift as a christmas present as a gesture of good will. But I will repeat, there is a reason why they landed up as cleaners. Do you think a normal person who lead a normal lifestyle will land up as a cleaner? The odds are low. And that is a fact. Not that I look down on them. They are still people.

      I don't wish to argue further as it is clear we see things in 2 different angles. I will leave you with a quote: We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand - Randy Pausch. And what the government does are merely tools that we can exploit to progress ourselves.

      It is good that you feel such strong emotions. Who knows? Maybe one day you will impact a change in Singapore. We all lament about the 'lack' of passionate leaders but these leaders are usually appear in times of distress. Who knows. :)

      All in all, have a good weekend ahead!

  • Summer hill's Avatar
    6,612 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Sky_Blue223:

      So funny. You put your calcuations based on your own ideal lifestyle and demand that it is hard/impossible to live with anything lesser.

      I shall explain:

      FOOD? 

      couple: 30 days* $50(dun be stupid and tell me they can survive on 3$ a day =_= what are we? beggars?) = 1.5k a mth for TWO people in Singapore 

      Spending $50 a day on a 2.7k paycheck. What do you spend it on??

       

      family: 30 days* 50$(for the two 'highly' paid professionals) + 2*30*6$ = 1.86k

      This estimate is really off depending on what age the kids are.

      TRANSPORT?

      couple: 3 trips*1.50*30days= 90$ + extras like taxis esp if they're in the business sector(100$)

      Concession. I don't think it's easy to purchase/maintain a car with 2.7k paycheck so I will assume that it is out of the equation.

      family: $90+ 2*10$*2(ez link topups of 10$ every two wks)+100 = 210

      I don't know how you derive such figures but I assume they are necessities.

      UTILITY BILLS?

      average electricity bills of a four person family living in a 3 room flat: $250-300

      This is way off. Even if it is both electricity and water bills. How do you consume so much electricity? A good estimate would be $150 - $170.

      MISC(ie. tuition, leisure, comestics, blah blah)?

      couple: around 500-1.2k?(i shall be conservative and use 600$) 

      Since its for couples, tuition seems out of context. Leisure and comestics $600 per month for a 2.7k paycheck? Wow man. Wow.

      Family: around $800(up to 2k once the kids hit JC or poly)

      This doesn't apply if the kids are in JC as it is subsidied. For poly, it is still not so high as you said. I would assume that the calculation is in mind of expenditure on clothes but still... $800? That's $400 per kid. Minus school fees of $100+(poly) = $300 each month on clothes. Wow.

      total cost for a couple: up to $5090/ mth

      total cost for family: an upwards of 6k/mth

      And oops, you forgot to include money for your parents livelihood.
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Seriously, you are naive. If you earn a low salary, please live within your means. You want to have a comfortable life, work for it. There are so many government policies that can help you if you want to upgrade yourself - to earn a bigger paycheck.

      And no, I did not say cleaners are stupid or are gangsters. For me, I always greet the cleaners at my block and I recently packed a small gift as a christmas present as a gesture of good will. But I will repeat, there is a reason why they landed up as cleaners. Do you think a normal person who lead a normal lifestyle will land up as a cleaner? The odds are low. And that is a fact. Not that I look down on them. They are still people.

      I don't wish to argue further as it is clear we see things in 2 different angles. I will leave you with a quote: We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand - Randy Pausch. And what the government does are merely tools that we can exploit to progress ourselves.

      It is good that you feel such strong emotions. Who knows? Maybe one day you will impact a change in Singapore. We all lament about the 'lack' of passionate leaders but these leaders are usually appear in times of distress. Who knows. :)

      All in all, have a good weekend ahead!

      given singapore's education system, non of our kids will end up as a cleaner.

      anyway, do you know why my divorced father earned only $3/ hour? Weak health. He used to earn $15/hour. now old cannot find a good job. end up as security guard. best, just sit and patrol his area. 

      i am guessing those locals who are cleaners either have poor health or are too old and have children to support( now everyone know english, can have a job as a sales assitant can earn $7/hour. but sometimes need to carry heavy items which old ppl can't)

      Life. But they are at least relying on themselves not the government.

  • troublemaker2005's Avatar
    8,443 posts since Dec '05
    • seriously skyblue - no ne in this world ever thinks before they say - and they still think they are the best speaker in the world - bo bian if they senior, but once step out of the company suck my foot icon_lol.gif

       

      you have to agree - lots of people in this world won;t think before they speak, won;t think beofr ethey write, and they still believe they are the best bullsitter in the league, perhaps of the two three friends they have by their side in the bus in the train at the coffee shops icon_lol.gif

  • Fcukpap's Avatar
    7,288 posts since Dec '09
    • "please brief your cleaners to ensure all areas are spick and span, presentable and in tip top condition esp the high glass all have to be superbly cleaned....later the guest of honours are coming...in addition, make sure they fill up all risk assessments, comply to all safety requirements, no stench on their body, ironed uniform...."

      "dun forget....we have up their salary ...so they should work harder and appreciate"

      Thanks and Regards

      Fcukpap

  • Summer hill's Avatar
    6,612 posts since Dec '11
    • Skyblue, if our government gives poly students bus fares, I will tell my father to vote for PAP.

      Edited by Summer hill 25 Feb `12, 7:37AM
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