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  • BanguIzai's Avatar
    7,314 posts since Mar '10
    • You must quickly go to the respective U.  Or else seems like a waste to 你 this kind of 人才。

  • Moderator
    Rock^Star's Avatar
    11,142 posts since Jul '05
    • Originally posted by BanguIzai:

      You must quickly go to the respective U.  Or else seems like a waste to 你 this kind of 人才。

      Wah don't la lol. I'm nothing.

  • BanguIzai's Avatar
    7,314 posts since Mar '10
    • Originally posted by Rock^Star:

      Wah don't la lol. I'm nothing.


      Don't say that coz I think you are so passionate as to start a Chinese - language based sub-forum

    • Originally posted by Rock^Star:

      Yeh dude, very closely related. And well, amongst the chinese language, history and culture, these 3 categories, I'm strongly interested in the former two. Wonder what would have happened had I pursued it back then. Then again, some years later in 2004, read in ST that there are actually singaporeans who study this in China. There were features and interviews with them.


      Ok, I was looking for some information on the Austronesian languages today and happen to read something that relates the role of Archaeology and Linguistics closely. I quote here to show you:

      (pg 740, Prehistoric Inferences From Subgrouping, Austronesian Languages)

      The view, current from roughly 1965 to 1975, that Melanesia is the area of greatest linguistic diversity in Austronesian and that the Austronesian homeland therefore must have been in Melanesia has been shown to be inconsistent both with the comparative method of linguistics and with archaeological indications that Austronesian speakers entered the western Pacific from island Southeast Asia about 2000 BC. It has accordingly been abandoned by virtually all scholars.

      Both linguistic and archaeological evidence point to an initial dispersal of Austronesian languages from Taiwan several centuries after Neolithic settlers introduced grain agriculture, pottery making, and domesticated animals to the island from the adjacent mainland of China about 4000 BC. By perhaps 3500 BC, populations bearing a clear cultural resemblance to those in Taiwan had begun to appear in the northern Philippines, and within a millennium similar material traces appear throughout Indonesia. The linguistic evidence suggests a steady southward and eastward movement, with Austronesian speakers moving around the northern coast of New Guinea into the western Pacific about 2000 BC. From the region of New Guinea and the Bismarck Archipelago settlers fanned out very rapidly, crossing the sea with highly seaworthy outrigger canoes. In Oceania the dispersal of Austronesian-speaking peoples is most closely associated archaeologically with the distribution of Lapita pottery. Because the earliest Lapita sites in Fiji and western Polynesian are only three or four centuries younger than the earliest dated Lapita site in western Melanesia, the colonization of Melanesia as far as Fiji appears to have been accomplished within 15 or 20 generations. There is a puzzling thousand-year gap before the settlement of central and eastern Polynesia, with Hawaii being settled only within the past 1,500-1,700 years and New Zealand within roughly the past millennium.

      The settlement history of Micronesia is more complex: Palau and the Mariana Islands were settled by two migrations which were distinct from that associated with Lapita pottery. Most of the low coral atolls of the Caroline Islands were settled by 2000 BP, but some radiocarbon dates from the Marshall Islands suggest that Austronesian speakers may have reached the atolls of Micronesia not long after the settlement of Fiji and western Polynesia.

    •  

      Originally posted by Rock^Star:

       

      I'm sure the mainland chinese wouldn't understand that haha, not sure abt the taiwanese or hongkies.

      Regarding this comment, I would like to make some personal observations from the following article which you can download and take a look:

      〖雙語環境下的新加坡華語詞彙異化問題〗

      http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BDR2VE2M     (Lin Wan Jing, 1998.pdf)

      This is extracted from this publication (1999):

      Lin Wan Jing (1998) is a local educator from NUS (reflected in the article), later he moved on to NTU/NIE and since last year he seemed to have left for some other places.

      In this article, he mentions about the intensifying differentiation of local Singapore Mandarin Chinese (referred to as SMC below) and how language users of SMC holds emotionally contrasting views towards SMC. He gives an overview of how to analyse the situation using an objective approach and provides detailed examples of SMC usage.

      I would focus on the specific examples which he provided:

      • ambulance = SMC 救傷車 = China's Putonghua (=CPTH) 救護車
      • film = SMC 菲林 / 底片 / 軟片 = CPTH 膠卷(兒)
      • Dengue fever = SMC 骨痛溢血熱症 / 骨痛熱証 = CPTH 登革熱
      • Chingay parade = SMC 妝藝大遊行 / 妝藝  =≠=  CPTH ?——?
      • kiasu = SMC 怕輸  =≠=  CPTH ?——?
      • flat = SMC 組屋  =≠=  CPTH ?——?
      • Immersion Course = SMC 浸濡課程  =≠=  CPTH ?——?
      • seed school = SMC 種子學校  =≠=  CPTH ?——?
      • Certificate of Entitlement "COE" = SMC 擁車証  =≠=  CPTH ?——?
      • tank ship = SMC 油槽船 = CPTH 油船
      • Translink = SMC 通聯卡  =≠=  CPTH ?——?
      • Polyclinic = SMC 綜合診所  =≠=  CPTH ?——?
      • Condominium = SMC 共管式公寓  =≠=  CPTH ?——?
      • Goods and Services Tax = SMC 消費稅  =≠=  CPTH ?——?
      • Intensive Care = SMC 加護病房 / 深切病房  =≠=  CPTH ?——?
      • brainstorming = SMC 腦力震蕩  =≠=  CPTH ?——?
      • Restricted Zone = SMC 限制區  =≠=  CPTH ?——?
      • Package = SMC 配套  =≠=  CPTH ?——?
      • medishield = SMC 健保雙全  =≠=  CPTH ?——?
      • latch-key children = SMC 鎖匙兒童  =≠=  CPTH ?——?
      • gifted child = SMC 高材兒童 = CPTH 資優生
      • Intellectual Property = SMC ??????
      • update passbook = SMC 追記存摺帳目
      Similarly, in this dictionary titled "大陸和臺灣詞語差別詞典" list over 5,500 different semantical usage between Taiwanese Mandarin Chinese and China's Mandarin Chinese:


      I fully stand in support that each country should develop it's own unique characteristic of vocabularly pertaining to it's own culture and local idioms should be preserved.

       

       

      Edited by BanguIzai 24 Jun `11, 1:05AM
    • Originally posted by Rock^Star:

       

      hahaha....i really think the "hanyu cool" campaign can do better. You don't just say, oh mandarin's cool, let's start speaking mandarin! It has to be the overall way of life, the way role models are bilingual in english and mandarin. People like Lee Hom come to mind.

      The singaporean accented chinese doesn't sound very good either, though I admit that's our way of life. Mediacorp personalities like 振容 and 谢韵仪 are those whom we can learn from. Not sounding too much like the 北京 accent and still sgaporean. 李国煌, his standard of mandarin used is quite good but he carries a heavy 福建 accent. If you look at variety shows from taiwan and china, one will realise that their level of mandarin used is much higher. And I wonder why Singapore, despite our modern education system has lagged behind? This one, fcukpap will have a lot to say hahahaha.

      Oh not forgetting, as we all know.... 郭亮 is very good. Saw him do an intro ad for "Tour with celebrities", I observed how he introduced China. Words like 山环水绕 (a place of mountains and water), 何乐而不为 (means why not?) struck me. There's always this touch of finesse about his speech.

      The variety shows from taiwan and china, from the hosts to the guests..... there will always be idioms peppered into their conversations. It's natural for them.

      Regarding "Singaporean accented chinese", this article may be of interest to you.  I uploaded it and you can download it for your future study or research reference:

       

      〖新加坡華人與新加坡華語〗

       

      http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1425LT21      (Xu Jie, Wang Hui, 2004.pdf)

      This is extracted from this publication (2004):

      Edited by BanguIzai 24 Jun `11, 1:07AM
  • Moderator
    Rock^Star's Avatar
    11,142 posts since Jul '05
  • BanguIzai's Avatar
    7,314 posts since Mar '10
    • Originally posted by Rock^Star:

      Very interesting stuff, dude. Let me digest in more detail the next few days.

      Ya, please do feedback if you feel like it.

      Regarding the second article that I posted, I would be happy if you take some time to read pg. 281-283, under the subheading: 「新加坡華語的規範問題」。

      The authors of this article (徐傑 & 王惠, both NUS professors whom orig. from China) agrees unanimously with 陸儉明(1995) that a parallel development of Singapore Mandarin Chinese alongside with China Mandarin Chinese strengthens Singapore Mandarin Chinese's usage and fulfils the role it takes for it to continuously grow in the local context, as far as to sense the urgency (cf. 當務之急) and to support the creation of a complete local 新加坡華語詞典 as soon as possible.

      I have taken note of the important messages that they repeatedly bring out:

      (pg. 281) 事實上,完全照搬北京華語或者說中國普通話的標準來規範新加坡華語,既無必要,也不可能。  (followed by important explanations)

      (pg. 282) 在規範的基礎上,還應該發展新加坡華語,逐步使它成爲一種強式華語變體。  (followed by important explanations)

      (pg. 282) 總之,我們應有的努力方向 >> 不在于 << 如何才能讓新加坡華語靠近北京華語。

      (pg. 283) 結果會不會造成講新加坡華語的人無法跟講別的華語變體的人溝通交流呢?新加坡華語和北京華語最終會不會演變成不同的語言呢?答案是“不會!”

      (pg. 283) 新加坡華語還應該一如既往地,理直氣壯地吸收馬來語、英語、淡米爾語和華人方言中的有用成分。這就如同北京華語也在不斷地吸收華人方言和英語中對自己有用的成分一樣。

       

      I often find it disgusted when people around me,  especially educator friends (i mean those who work in the Chinese media line or teaching line) feign a foreign Beijing-tinted accent and speak like some fxxk.   The general trend is, if you speak more like Beijing accent you are deem to be more "educated".

      I think they should read more journals and articles like the ones above,   and be "re-educated".  angel.png

  • Pinknutri's Avatar
    648 posts since Jan '10
    • Originally posted by Rock^Star:

      Cool....haha I see where your interest is. An article about 岳飞, 关云长, 戚继光,孙膑 etc etc may interest me more though. Military and dynasty stuff in particular.

      It will be interesting to  know how the 4 pretty girls (西施,貂蝉,王昭君,杨贵妃)
      impact the olden days military and dynasty. Read the link below.

      http://bbs.chinanews.com/thread-357669-1-1.html

  • Moderator
    Rock^Star's Avatar
    11,142 posts since Jul '05
    • Originally posted by BanguIzai:

      Ya, please do feedback if you feel like it.

      Regarding the second article that I posted, I would be happy if you take some time to read pg. 281-283, under the subheading: 「新加坡華語的規範問題」。

      The authors of this article (徐傑 & 王惠, both NUS professors whom orig. from China) agrees unanimously with 陸儉明(1995) that a parallel development of Singapore Mandarin Chinese alongside with China Mandarin Chinese strengthens Singapore Mandarin Chinese's usage and fulfils the role it takes for it to continuously grow in the local context, as far as to sense the urgency (cf. 當務之急) and to support the creation of a complete local 新加坡華語詞典 as soon as possible.

      I have taken note of the important messages that they repeatedly bring out:

       

      I often find it disgusted when people around me,  especially educator friends (i mean those who work in the Chinese media line or teaching line) feign a foreign Beijing-tinted accent and speak like some fxxk.   The general trend is, if you speak more like Beijing accent you are deem to be more "educated".

      I think they should read more journals and articles like the ones above,   and be "re-educated".  angel.png

      That was an intense read! My personal observation would say she's 90% accurate; quite a well researched piece of analysis. I would also think that there's no way our mandarin should be like Beijing's. We have too much influence from at least 6-7 languages (if we include dialects). And the difference can be telling when I speak to my China friends.

      Give you one example: For percentage, we say 八仙率 but for them, they say 百分比。I think we can be flexible here. Can't expect to use China mandarin when conversing with local Singaporeans and while with China friends, we adapt their style.

      In a way, I would rather be practising my mandarin with them than with our fellow countrymen. The standard is higher and there's no mixture of rojak haha. There are many many words and idioms that I cannot use when speaking with fellow Sgporeans, my mum included; and she's chinese educated.

      Anyway, I have saved these two articles for future reference. My only hope for Singapore mandarin is that the usage of English, Hokkien etc in Mandarin would be minimised as the years go by but I highly doubt so. I don't think the edcuators at MOE are doing anything about it, at least not on a macro scale.

    • Originally posted by Pinknutri:

      It will be interesting to  know how the 4 pretty girls (西施,貂蝉,王昭君,杨贵妃)
      impact the olden days military and dynasty. Read the link below.

      http://bbs.chinanews.com/thread-357669-1-1.html

      Tks, I don't really know much about these 4 beauties except that 杨贵妃 is a little plump lol. Reading your link led me to think about the old adage: 自古以来,英雄不过美人关 and 美人计in the classic 36 strategems.

      This one Bangulzai shd be really interested in huh? Anthropology? About the history and origins, the cognition and adaptations of adulterous practices throughout the years haha.

    • Taken from last night's 爱:

      乘胜追击

      以卵击石

      不仅于此

      化干戈为玉帛

      颠倒黑白

  • BanguIzai's Avatar
    7,314 posts since Mar '10
    • Originally posted by Rock^Star:

      Taken from last night's 爱:

      乘胜追击

      以卵击石

      不仅于此

      化干戈为玉帛

      颠倒黑白

       

      乘胜追击 -  i tink means to win while during the flow of winning rite?  dun break momentum izzit ?

      以卵击石 -  use egg to kok the stone?  meaning 不自量力 izzit ?

      不仅于此 - not oni tis

      化干戈为玉帛 - settle war and reconcile amicably,  nowadays used to mean settle dispute instead     (干戈 are those weapons and 玉帛 is jade and silk, meaning cultured)

      颠倒黑白 - twist and turn logic / facts lor

    • Originally posted by Rock^Star:

      Tks, I don't really know much about these 4 beauties except that 杨贵妃 is a little plump lol. Reading your link led me to think about the old adage: 自古以来,英雄不过美人关 and 美人计in the classic 36 strategems.

      This one Bangulzai shd be really interested in huh? Anthropology? About the history and origins, the cognition and adaptations of adulterous practices throughout the years haha.


      ur reply so funny.  among the 4, i tink i interested to find out when 昭君 married to the Huns what happened to her later.   as in gave birth to mixed-ethnic children?   more interested in the her children than her,  hahaha

      Edited by BanguIzai 24 Jun `11, 5:07PM
    • Originally posted by Rock^Star:

      Yeh dude, very closely related. And well, amongst the chinese language, history and culture, these 3 categories, I'm strongly interested in the former two. Wonder what would have happened had I pursued it back then. Then again, some years later in 2004, read in ST that there are actually singaporeans who study this in China. There were features and interviews with them.


      I came across this chapter while reading the book The Austronesian Languages (2009, Robert Blust):

      It again links the importance of Archaeology and Historical Linguistics to prove your point,  through the discovery of the Proto-Austronesian root words - *kuden, *SadiRi, *busuR, *panaq, *bubu, and *tulani / *tulaNi  matching with the current archaeological research that the "Lapita" people passed through New Guinea and the Bismarck Archipelago before spreading into the rest of the Pacific Ocean.

      (pg 336-339,  Linguistic Approaches to Austronesian culture history)

      5.11.3.1  Historical linguistics and archaeology

          Linguistics and archaeology had little contact in the first half of the twentieth century, but since the 1970s many scholars in both disciplines have come to see the benefits of interdisciplinary cooperation. This is reflected in such collaborative volumes as the June, 1976 number of World Archaeology, devoted to the topic 'archaeology and linguistics', the influential and provocative book Archaeology and language: the puzzle of Indo-European origins (Renfrew 1987), the multi-volume proceedings of a 1994 conference on Archaeology and Language (eg. Blench and Spriggs 1997), the two-volume Time depth in historical linguistics hosted by the McDonald Institute for Archaeological Research at the University of Cambridge (Renfrew, McMahon and Trask 2000), and in Hawaiki, Ancestral Polynesia (Kirch and Green 2001), a book written by two of the most prominent Pacific archaeologists, but guided in its approach by the cultural riches of POLLEX, the Proto Polynesian lexicon initiated by Walsh and Biggs (1966) and expanded and refined continuously over the past 40 years. Not all archaeologists have shared this vision, and some have reacted almost with territorial defensiveness. Nonetheless it seems fair to say that a working relationship has arisen between historical linguists and archaeologists that is likely to continue into the future to the benefit of both disciplines.
          Given the material with which archaeologists normally work, it is natural that the culture historical contributions of linguistics that would be of greatest interest to scholars in this field are those relating to material culture. The following are a few examples that serve to illustrate how linguistic evidence may corroborate, complement or contradict the archaeological record:

      Pottery

          Pottery is one of the mainstays of Neolithic archaeology for obvious reasons: it is often abundant, and is durable under highly variable soil conditions. PAN *kuden 'clay cooking pot' can be reconstructed on the basis of cognates distributed from eastern Taiwan to Fiji. A sample cognate distribution includes Vakon Amis kuren, Hununoo kurun, Maranao koden, Kelabit kuden, Toba Batak hudon, Kuruti kur, Likum kuh, Lindrow kun, Nauna kul, Motu uro, Fijian kuro, and Tongan kulo (lost in Tonga and then reacquired from Fiji), all of which refer to clay cooking pots in general. The archaeological record shows pottery of a distinctive decorative style and set of cultural associations turning up suddenly in the western Pacific around 3400-3500 BP (Kirch 2009:91). This 'Lapita ware' almost certainly was a continuation of the tradition of pottery-making that can be traced back to PAN via the cognate distribution given here, although the linguistic evidence permits no more detail than the reconstructed meaning 'clay cooking pot' in association with the form *kude.

      Pile dwellings

          With reference to PAN society Blust (1976b:36) suggested that 'Dwelling units were evidently raised on posts.' The basis for this inference was a cognate set that reflects PAN *SadiRi 'housepost', seen in e.g. Nataoran Amis salili 'houspost', Ilokano adigi, Tagalog haligi 'post, pillar', Tiruray liley 'the main posts in house constructions', Uma Juman Kayan jihi', Mukah Melanau dii, Ma'anyan ari, Malagasy andry, Mentawai arigi, Manggarai siri, Atoni ni, Leti riri, Yamdena diri, Asilulu lili, Numfor rir, Manam ariri, Numbami alili, Lau lili 'house post'. Wherever sufficient material is available regarding house types reflexes of *SadiRi refer to the main house posts, which normally support the entire structure two meters or more above the level of the ground. In the better-known parts of the Pacific, such as Polynesia, houses are built directly on the ground, and for Pacific archaeologists with a Polynesian focus there thus was little expectation of finding evidence that early Lapita-associated dwellings were raised on piles. Nonetheless, Kirch (1997:171ff) was able to provide archaeological confirmation of this linguistic inference during a 1985 excavation of waterlogged house sites at Talepakemalai in the Mussau Islands north of New Ireland, dated to about 3,500 BP, and hence near the beginning of the Lapita colonisation of the western Pacific. The inference that PAN speakers used pile dwellings, and that this house type continued in use as early AN speakers expanded out into the Pacific implies that ladders were used to enter the dwellings. Reflexes of PMP *haRezan 'notched log ladder' are distributed from northern Luzon to south Halmahera, where they are associated with pile dwellings that are entered vertically from the ground. Reflexes of this term are unknown in Formosan and Oceanic languages. In Taiwan this is because pile dwellings are uncommon. In the Pacific, on the other hand, it may be because pile dwellings are normally built in shallow lagoon waters, and entered by a gradually sloping plank walkway that connects them to the beach terrace (cf. Kirch 1997:174 for a Mussau example). This is consistent with POC *tete 'ladder, bridge', a term that can be reconstructed for PMP (*taytay) only in the meaning 'bamboo suspension bridge', suggesting that in Proto Oceanic the earlier meaning was extended to rickety plank walkways for entering pile dwellings because of the similarity in general structure between these and traditional suspension bridges.

      The bow

          Linguistic evidence allows us to attribute both pottery and pile dwellings to speakers of PAN, and to infer that these cultural attributes were carried into the Pacific as part of the AN expansion out of insular Southeast Asia. In both cases archaeological corroboration is available (for decades with regard to pottery, much more recently with regard to pile dwellings). For some other features of material culture the linguistic evidence continues to stand alone, and the chances of archaeological corroboration are slim. It is cases such as these that show with greatest clarity the need to combine linguistic evidence with archaeological evidence in order to 'round out' the picture of the life of prehistoric communities, since perishable referents are rarely preserved in archaeological sites, and when they are preserved they tend to be of certain types (large or stationary objects such as beached canoes, or the posts of pile dwellings).
          In addition to practicing agriculture and collecting wild plants PAN speakers hunted game, and perhaps fought with the bow and arrow. Two terms are particularly important in this complex: *busuR 'bow' and *panaq 'flight of an arrow'. The first of these is reflected from northern Taiwan to Vanuatu, as seen in Mayrinax Atayal buh-in-ug, Bunun busul, Thao futulh, Casiguran Dumagat, Tagalog busog, Malay busor, Yamdena busir, Asilulu ha-husul, Paulohi husule, Buli pusi, Mota us, Peterara usu, Wailengi fuhu 'bow and arrow'. In insular Southeast Asia reflexes of this form can usually be glossed 'hunting bow', but in the Pacific there was little to hunt, and the bow either became an instrument of warfare (as in Vanuatu), or atrophied to a toy (as in Polynesia). What is important in this comparison is the clear evidence it provides that the 'Lapita people', as they are known to Pacific archaeologists, were armed with bow and arrow as they sailed into the western Pacific in their single-outrigger canoes to settle new lands on the margins of territory that had been discovered at least 40,000 years earlier by ancestral Papuans.
          The reconstruction of PAN *busuR and the study of its reflexes permits another useful inference. Hunting with bow and arrow is not practical in dense jungle, where the profusion of vegetation increases the risk of deflecting an arrow in its flight. For this reason the bow disappeared over much of Borneo, even though the hunting of wild pigs and sambhur deer was an important part of traditional Dayak cultures. Here, in parts of Sulawesi, and in a few other areas, the bow was replaced by the blowpipe, since the smaller dart can more easily be directed at a target in thick foliage without high risk of deflection. Reflexes of *sumpit 'blowpipe' are unknown in Taiwan, but are distributed from the central Philippines to western Indonesia and parts of the Lesser Sundas. In general this correlates with an increasingly tropical environment, and suggest that the blowpipe may have been invented as a supplement to the bow as AN speakers moved into areas with denser jungle cover.

      The *bubu fish trap

          Traditional AN-speaking societies hunted and fished using a wide variety of methods. In addition to the bow and arrow, the blowpipe, and fishing by line and hook, a number of different types of traps were used in hunting for protein foods. One of the most widespread and common of these is a conical wickerwork cage trap about one meter in length with a mouth of converging bamboo splints that can be pressed open by an entering fish seeking the bait inside, but cannot be pressed open from within. Very similar forms of this trap are found over much of the AN-speaking world. Since closely similar traps are also found in some other parts of the world a consideration of the distributional evidence alone does not rule out the possibility of independent invention. Here linguistic evidence plays a crucial role, as almost all AN-speaking groups that use this type of trap call it by a reflex of PAN *bubu: Kavalan bubu, Amis folo, Tagalog bubo, Kelabit bubuh, Bintulu buvew, Malagasy vovo, Malay bubu, Javanese wuwu, Makasarese buwu, Palauan bub, Savu wuwu, Roti bufu, Yamdena bubu, Asilulu huhu, Lou pup, Raluana vup, Manam u, Arosi huhu, Pohnpeian uu, Chuukese wuu, Fijian vuvu.
          Given this cognate distribution there is no question that PAN speakers made and used this type of trap, and that some of their descendents took it with them into the Pacific as far as Polynesia (although surprisingly, given its stability in other parts of the AN world, it appears to be called by a number of lexical innovation in Polynesia). Like the bow, it is unlikely that direct archaeological evidence of the *bubu fish trap will ever be found in early settlement contexts, but in view of the linguistic evidence such documentation, while welcome, would clearly be redundant.

      The bamboo nose flute

          In some cases the linguistic evidence for an item of prehistoric material culture is tenous, but undeniable. Words for the traditional bamboo nose flute are somewhat variable in shape, but clearly point to the use of this musical instrument by speakers of PAN, and to its transport into the Pacific at least as far as Fiji. This is seen in Kavalan tulani, Ilokano tulali, Toba Batak tulila, Bare'e tuyali, Tae' tulali, Fijian dulali. The Kavalan word points to PAN *tulani or *tulaNi, and all other forms to PMP *tulali (with irregular *n/N > *l), if vocalic metathesis is assumed in Toba Batak tulila. Some dictionaries gloss this only as 'flute'. Where more information is available it appears as 'nose flute', and where maximal information is available it becomes clear that it is a bamboo nose flute. Fijian dulali is the only known reflex in any Oceanic language, but it alone provides unmistakeable evidence that the 'Lapita peoples' who left an archaeologically highly visible trail of pottery sherds in their colonisation of the Pacific also played the bamboo nose flute.

  • shanfan's Avatar
    1,115 posts since Apr '11
    • Originally posted by BanguIzai:

      You must quickly go to the respective U.  Or else seems like a waste to 你 this kind of 人才。


      Bangu, you are a genius in languages.  Linguist.

  • Moderator
    Rock^Star's Avatar
    11,142 posts since Jul '05
    • Originally posted by BanguIzai:


      ur reply so funny.  among the 4, i tink i interested to find out when 昭君 married to the Huns what happened to her later.   as in gave birth to mixed-ethnic children?   more interested in the her children than her,  hahaha

      Wah lydat it's endless.....haha. Aryans mixed with europeans. Han people mixed with caucasus people.....etc, etc.

      You shd go to xinjiang, the chinese there have blue and green eyes. And they don't really speak mandarin unless they're educated.

    • Originally posted by BanguIzai:

       

      乘胜追击 -  i tink means to win while during the flow of winning rite?  dun break momentum izzit ?

      以卵击石 -  use egg to kok the stone?  meaning 不自量力 izzit ?

      不仅于此 - not oni tis

      化干戈为玉帛 - settle war and reconcile amicably,  nowadays used to mean settle dispute instead     (干戈 are those weapons and 玉帛 is jade and silk, meaning cultured)

      颠倒黑白 - twist and turn logic / facts lor

      漂亮。谢谢。

  • BanguIzai's Avatar
    7,314 posts since Mar '10
    • Originally posted by Rock^Star:

      Wah lydat it's endless.....haha. Aryans mixed with europeans. Han people mixed with caucasus people.....etc, etc.

      You shd go to xinjiang, the chinese there have blue and green eyes. And they don't really speak mandarin unless they're educated.


      hey, speaking of xinjiang, when i reach home, i dig some of the research on them

      in the meanwhile, i do hope you succeed in your endeavour in archaeology, because i haf certain questions that i need to be answered.   haf u seen the news / research on the Tarim mummies these few years?   tell me more about them

  • Moderator
    Rock^Star's Avatar
    11,142 posts since Jul '05
    • Originally posted by BanguIzai:


      hey, speaking of xinjiang, when i reach home, i dig some of the research on them

      in the meanwhile, i do hope you succeed in your endeavour in archaeology, because i haf certain questions that i need to be answered.   haf u seen the news / research on the Tarim mummies these few years?   tell me more about them

      Actually back when I first thought of studying in China, archaeology came to mind. After all these years, the factors that really endear me are history and language (like I've mentioned before)....not so much archaeology.

      Haha hope that clarifies......Tarim mummies? I think I need you to educate me on that.

  • BanguIzai's Avatar
    7,314 posts since Mar '10
    • Originally posted by Rock^Star:

      Actually back when I first thought of studying in China, archaeology came to mind. After all these years, the factors that really endear me are history and language (like I've mentioned before)....not so much archaeology.

      Haha hope that clarifies......Tarim mummies? I think I need you to educate me on that.

      I do not know much about the Xinjiang Tarim mummies that's why I ask you leh.

      What's on Wikipedia or the net, I won't duplicate here unnecessarily,  I knew about the Xinjiang Tarim mummies only because I came across the Tocharian language and it was speculated this language is spoken by the people of the Tarim basin who were postulated to be basically of the Caucasoidal human prototype.

      I have the articles here,  for you to keep and for your own research next time,  do comment if you feel free to:

      [[ Tocharian - Indo-European Language & Culture (Benjamin W Fortson IV) ]]

      [[ The Prehistory Of The Silk Road - Chapter 5 ]]

    • Originally posted by Rock^Star:

      Why it's 公司 really baffles me haha, despite your faultless explanation.

       

      I retrieved the website which let's you check up the source of Chinese dialect loanwords in Bahasa ler.

      Here it is:

      http://sealang.net/indonesia/lwim/

       

      To use it,  example:

      01.  In the "Orth" field,   type:   kongsi

      02.  Then click "Go!"

      03.  Tada!   The explanation appears!

      eg.

       

      Searching native orthography for "kongsi"
      1 item found

      kongsi
      1a company; an association; to share
      Amoy 公司 kong si Douglas1899:245a

       

      Edited by BanguIzai 25 Jun `11, 3:32AM
    • Originally posted by Rock^Star:

      That was an intense read! My personal observation would say she's 90% accurate; quite a well researched piece of analysis. I would also think that there's no way our mandarin should be like Beijing's. We have too much influence from at least 6-7 languages (if we include dialects). And the difference can be telling when I speak to my China friends.

      Give you one example: For percentage, we say 八仙率 but for them, they say 百分比。I think we can be flexible here. Can't expect to use China mandarin when conversing with local Singaporeans and while with China friends, we adapt their style.

      In a way, I would rather be practising my mandarin with them than with our fellow countrymen. The standard is higher and there's no mixture of rojak haha. There are many many words and idioms that I cannot use when speaking with fellow Sgporeans, my mum included; and she's chinese educated.

      Anyway, I have saved these two articles for future reference. My only hope for Singapore mandarin is that the usage of English, Hokkien etc in Mandarin would be minimised as the years go by but I highly doubt so. I don't think the edcuators at MOE are doing anything about it, at least not on a macro scale.

       

      biggrin.png   八仙率 =  Frequency of the Eight Immortals

       

      Just joking  :-p

  • Moderator
    Rock^Star's Avatar
    11,142 posts since Jul '05
    • Originally posted by BanguIzai:

      I do not know much about the Xinjiang Tarim mummies that's why I ask you leh.

      What's on Wikipedia or the net, I won't duplicate here unnecessarily,  I knew about the Xinjiang Tarim mummies only because I came across the Tocharian language and it was speculated this language is spoken by the people of the Tarim basin who were postulated to be basically of the Caucasoidal human prototype.

      I have the articles here,  for you to keep and for your own research next time,  do comment if you feel free to:

      [[ Tocharian - Indo-European Language & Culture (Benjamin W Fortson IV) ]]

      [[ The Prehistory Of The Silk Road - Chapter 5 ]]

      Interesting. Why didn't you further your studies in this field?

    • Originally posted by BanguIzai:

       

      I retrieved the website which let's you check up the source of Chinese dialect loanwords in Bahasa ler.

      Here it is:

      http://sealang.net/indonesia/lwim/

       

      To use it,  example:

      01.  In the "Orth" field,   type:   kongsi

      02.  Then click "Go!"

      03.  Tada!   The explanation appears!

      eg.

       

      Searching native orthography for "kongsi"
      1 item found

      kongsi
      1a company; an association; to share
      Amoy 公司 kong si Douglas1899:245a

       

      What other words found in bahasa? I can only think of taoge which is bean sprouts. And in Indonesia, their restaurants (need not be Chinese) will surely have the word "ca" on their menu; which means "fried" in hokkien.

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