26 May, 08:08AM in sunny Singapore!

19 Steps to becoming City Harvest Church member.

Subscribe to 19 Steps to becoming City Harvest Church member. 667 posts

Please Login or Signup to reply.
  • James_Tan_1983's Avatar
    63 posts since Jan '12
    • I hope people can see the humour of this, and start to think again.

       

      1. Confess to the world that you love Jesus, and intend to follow Him and devote your life to Him. It does not matter if you do not mean it, just saying it will guarantee acceptance from your CHC brothers and sisters.

      2. Acquire the skill of speaking in tongues, get water-baptized and claim you feel that your life has been change. Do not pass on any opportunity to claim that your conversion is attributed to Kong Hee only.

      3. Attend all CHC services and events. In case you fail to go to service, follow the service on your iPad, iPhone, or Mac Workbook. Consequently post some willy nilly phrases on your facebook to create the impression that you were in church. If you do not own a iPAd or iPhone, pretend to put money in the envelope yet instead use it to purchase this necessity.

      4.Use following rules of conduct during worship:

      -- Put your face into the “gaze into eternity” mode: practice to perfection in front of the mirror.

      -- Raise your hands in devotion: this part is easy ,just follow your neighbour worshipper.

      --Sing along with all the songs. If you do not know the words, pretend as the music is so loud that nobody will tell the difference

      --Always stand up when asked to do so, and start to clap frantically when Kong Hee releases the “Let’s-give-the-lord-a-clap” command.

      -- Wiping away a tear once in a while and sighing every 4 minutes might get you on the video screen. This earns respect from fellow worshippers

      -- Shout “Amen”, “Hallelujah”, “Praise the lord”, “Thank you Jesus” or read the words in bold on the screen out loud, when instructed by Kong Hee.

      --This is also the time to put your newly acquired “speaking in tongues” into practice. Don't be nervous and do not hold back, just shut down your brain and make it up as you go along. everybody else does. A few beers before service might help.

      --Extra devotional points, and guaranteed camera coverage can be obtained by falling to the floor, shaking your body, laughing frantically while yelling “AH-JAYSUS”

      --If any first timers stand up next to you, be the first to welcome them to the greatest church in Singapore. If hot and sexy, hug them.

      --Always check who is sitting next to you. Ensure you are seated next to good looking fellow members. Chances are, Kong Hee will ask you to hug them, or hold their hand. And when, no need to hold back, give it a good squeeze as Kong Hee has allowed you to do.   

      5. Every service, make sure you put a large amount of money in the bucket. Make sure that everyone in your vicinity sees you giving money. Try to get camera attention by letting the tears run from your eyes. If you have no money, pretend, the room is too dark  for anybody to notice. Better to keep the money for the cellgroup meeting’s offering, so you can boast how generous you are, and avoid being reported to Kong Hee.

      6. When listening to Kong Hee, or your CHC friends, occasionally confuse something they say with something that Jesus had said. This will impress them, and they will think highly of you. Or at least you will not be blacklisted yet.

      7. Stop reading the Bible. Only read from your notes from CHC Bible school, or the services. Preferably learn following verses by heart, or have page markers, so you can quickly pull them out:

      Malachi 3:10
      Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the LORD Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heavenAND POUR OUT SO MUCH BLESSING THAT THERE WILL NOT BE ROOM ENOUGH TO STORE IT.

      Joshua 1:8 
      for then thou shalt make thy way PROSPEROUS, and then thou shalt HAVE GOOD SUCCESS

      Isaiah 54:17
      No weapon that is formed against thee shall PROSPER

      3 John 1:2
      I wish above all things that thou mayest PROSPER and be in HEALTH, even as thy soulPROSPERETH

      Phil 4:18
      But my God SHALL SUPPLY ALL YOUR NEED ACCORDING TO HIS RICHES …

      2 Cor 8:9
      For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was RICH (important to stop the verse right here )

      Job 8:5,7 
      and make the habitation of thy righteousness PROSPEROUS. 7 Though thy beginning was small, yet thy latter end should GREATLY INCREASE 

      Job 22:25
      Yea, the Almighty shall be thy defence, and thou shalt have PLENTY OF SILVER.

       

      Avoid any verses that sound like: suffering of Christ -- Camels going thru needle eyes -- Thou shall be content -- the Son of God had nowhere to lay is head  -- Thou shall not add anything to the Word of God -- Only 2 maximum 3 can speak in tongues -- False prophets come with great signs …

      and discard all the verses where God kills firstborns, pregnant women, as you have not learned to put them into context, it might damage your gullible spirituality.

      8. Regularly quote Kong Hee. This will impress other CHC’ers of your “Biblical” knowledge, even if you do not know squat about theology.

      9. Believe in all Kong Hee’s, or CHC guest’s revelations, regardless of how silly they may seem.   Even if you do not believe in them, just pretend, same as everybody else.

      10. Abandon all sound reason and critical thinking. This is imperative. It is not possible to become an honest CHC member if you question Kong Hee’s teachings with reason or scepticism. This would be the fastest way for you to become a “backslider”.

      11. Smile a lot to everyone you see. Say you love them even when you hate them. You must pretend at all costs, to love your worst enemies even if it kills them in the end. This is even more valid towards NCC and FCBC members. See also next point.

      12. Attempt to convert your “unbelieving” friends. This means mainstream Christians, as well as NCC and FCBC non-believers. Make an ass out of yourself to the point of getting them angry. Make sure you always keep smiling and tell them how much you love them. This will escalate their anger and leave you fully satisfied. If they persist, claim that they are in league with the Devil and only faith in Jesus can release them (make sure you keep smiling).

      13. If anyone presents reasonable arguments against CHC, simply go into denial. Say that their tempting only makes your faith grow stronger. Never submit to them. No worries, after 3 services or so, the Kong Hee mantra “Do not let them hijack your faith” will kick in automatically.

      14. If anybody quotes a verse from the Bible that contradicts Kong Hee’s position, simply say that they're taking that verse out of context. The out-of-context ploy will get you out of many difficult situations and will make it seem that you actually understand the correct context when in fact you don't.

      15. Advertise your CHC membership.
      Examples: keep a Kong Hee (for the females*) or Sun Ho (for the males*) picture in your wallet or use him as your wallpaper. Always positive to wear Ed Hardy clothes from Christian Audigier or accessoires from Skin Couture. * The reverse is not allowed as Kong Hee does not like gay people.

      16. Show unconditional support to Kong Hee. If the situation requires, drag banners into service or call to arms on the internet. Violently disagree when accussed of idolizing Kong Hee or Sun Ho

      17. Marry within the church and send your kids to the free-of charge brainwash sessions in “children’s church. Profess family values. If you catch your hubby cheating on you, never let CHC know. Never get a divorce, regardless of how miserable you both feel. If the news does get out, pray you have money so you can have the Jack Neo treatment.

      18. Buy all the "devotional" material that is on offer. Make sure your cell group leader hears about this. If it is Sun Ho developed stuff, buy in 10-fold to ensure extra blessings.

      19. The ultimate sacrifice and and all time CHC nr. 1 will always be: Give your possessions away to CHC. The Bible says give all you have to anyone who asks (Luke 6:30). Kong Hee is asking every week to give him all your money, to sell your house, car,… Warning: If you do not do this, you are disobeying a direct Jesus request. However, if you do obey this command, Kong Hee will guarantee you a Christian position and you will garner his greatest esteem and respect until the well dries up.

  • Zeeleewong's Avatar
    87 posts since Mar '12
    • 1. We accept everybody that loves Jesus

      2. Speaking in tongues is not a skill we learn. It is the Holy Spirit speaking thru us.

      3. We enjoy going to service. If we miss a service we feel sad. We do not always give but there is no need to pretend

      4. We do not act. We feel the presence of the Lord. All we do comes from the heart and our relationship with Jesus Christ

      5. Not all of us tithe. I personally do not like to appear on the screen

      6. Jesus speaks thru Pastor Kong

      7. Thanks to CHC and Bible school, I am who I am today. Strong, confident and happy. You quote some of my favorite verses. I believe God wants us to prosper. I have faith in the Lord. The Lord will bless me if I believe with all my heart. How else can we support the poor and needy if we are poor ourselves?

      8. I have been to Bible school. I know the Bible very well

      9. So far, all Pastor Kong's revelations have come to pass

      10. There are no backsliders in CHC

      11. I have friends who go to NCC. I do love them dearly. 

      12. Of course I try to convince my friends. I want them to be blessed just like me

      13. Our faith is build on solid ground. There is no need for us to be in denial

      14. I have been to Bible school. I know how to read the Bible correctly

      15. I like Ed Hardy. This has nothing to do with CHC

      16. Kong Hee is dedicating his life for us. That is why we love him so much

      17. I am not married yet. Of course I would like to find a husband with the same belief system.

      18. I buy Pastor Sun CD's because she is a great singer and a wonderful person. The profits of her CD's is used to build churches and shelters around the world for helpless people. I love Pastor Sun. I hope to become like her one day.

      19. We give with a free heart.

       

      God bless! 

       

  • John_H's Avatar
    23 posts since Jun '10
    • Hahahaha... This is funny. CHC like concert man. My friends ask me to go... but hey! I dont want to commit to any religion. 

  • James_Tan_1983's Avatar
    63 posts since Jan '12
    • Zeeleewong

      Thank you for your contribution.

      I gather from your reaction that you are a CHC member.

      Can you help us to understand what you like so much about CHC?

    •  

      With open mind, I went to the CHC service last Saturday. Good thing I went because Pastor Kong blessed us with a Revelation. Read on...

      I forced myself to try and see the positive side of things but failed miserably. My bad.

      Faithfull to hypnosis 101, and how to use cardiovascular beats to increase suggestibility, the service opened with the usual Karaoke. A constipated worship leader (It is not nice to say this but I cannot get around the thought that this probably very nice person, and definitely a gifted musician, has bowel problems). Same songs return every week: "Author and Savior" and I caught myself tapping my foot to the beat. Very catchy indeed.

      The karaoke lasted for about 30 minutes, with the occassional Tongue speaking, then Pastor Tan Ye Peng entered the arena to take it to the next level. 

      "Let's not allow anything to stand in your way", "Open your mind", "Open your mind for Jesus", "Let everything fall aside", "Open your mind for Jesus", "Shiri ala bala chiriala", "Open your mouth", "Let Jesus come into this place", "Wonderful things are going to happen to us today", "God is gonna come and speak to us today", "Open your mind", ""Shiri ala bala chiriala",...<Jesus enters>..."Let's give the Lord a big hand for his presence."

      He sounded very much like one of those S$2.50 hypnosis tapes you can by at your friendly buddhist nieghborhood store.

      At this point, everybody is standing up, eyes closed, hands towards the invisible Jesus, all speaking in tongues.

      "God will touch us in a very special way", "Turn to your neighbor and say:"Jesus loves you, and I love you".  I took my own advice, and made sure I sat next to a good-looking worshipper. Kinda nice to look her straight in the eye while saying with a soft voice "I love you". It paid off as I took her for a drink and dinner after the show of which I will not report. ;)

      Pastor Whu Yu Zhuang took over: 
      "Since it is the first weekend of the month we have to take communion" - as if this is some annoying formality to be fulfilled. To prove it is a burden, the Apostle's creed and the Lord's prayer was rushed thru at the speed of light.

      While the pastor blasphemed: "Thank you Jesus for taking away poverty and giving us prosperity by dying on the cross", I was still grinning about the creed which literally states: "I believe in the holy catholic church" - and the "Do not leed us into temptation". Talking about hypocrisy.

      We were almost ready to start the tithes and offerings, but first special guests from Taiwan were welcomed. Pastor Abraham (funny Taiwanese name) Ku and his wife. To prove the point that all Pastors indeed are rich, Mrs. Ku was loaded with diamonds from top-to-bottom. I am sure she is a nice old lady, but hard to believe that giving to the poor can be found in her dictionary.

      Tithing can start. Some willy nilly verses were quoted such as 1 Kings 8:34,38. 
      Israel (meaning he who battles with God) is not the most humid place on the planet so rain was kinda important. The Pastor conveniently skipped verses 35,36,37, which would have made clear this verse is about rain, to translate this into the more suitable: God will hear whoever pays (stretches out his hand) to "Arise and Build".

      Interesting comment from the Pastor: "We are in the market place, and we want to stay in the market place, so prepare to give many tithes and offerings". The pastor thanked God for the Suntec convention centre. Finally saying: "God will act quickly if we give by multiplying". It is so absurd when writing this on a Monday morning, but in church you can literally feel a pressure to give. Somehow it seems not right not to give. Amazing how powerful peer-pressure can be.

      I will skip the announcements to move on to an international guest. Mrs Sarah Kips, the latest X-factor winner in the Netherlands, and married to a CHC overseas pastor. I have only one thing to comment: This lady has a voice like an angel. Absolutely fantastic and amazing. I will go back to CHC anytime when she is singing. Maybe they can replace the constipated one with her - attendance will go thru the roof.

      6:09 Finally Pastor Kong enters the scene. Pastor Kong ranted on, mainly about himself, for about 1 hour. I will shorten and stick to the message.

      God loves us like a father loves his child. 

      Kong Hee's own testimony of what a wonderful father he is to his son, as well as following verses were used to drive this point home:

      Exodus 21:15,17 A child who hits or curses his parents must be executed

      2 Kings 10:17 They took the king's sons, and slew seventy persons, and put their heads in baskets, and sent him them to Jezreel

      Hosea 13:16 ...Their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open

      My notes were hard to read so I might have misread a few verses. ;) For the confused CHC folks - go google on difference between ceremonial, moral and legalistic laws of the old testament. You might find that circumcision, tithing and abstinence from pork, ...is no longer required.

      Back to Kong:
      Kong's sermon was one big plead for pity. For the larger part we had to listen to Kong pitying himself, poor son had rash because of first class travel jetlag, poor Kong had depression because of wrong investment decision, poor Kong has to fly back and forth to his Mansion in LA. And do not get me wrong. This guy is good. He is a fantastic speaker. He literally moved people to tears. Due to all this "hardship" in his life he was ready to give up. But than it happened. God spoke to him in the airport!!!! Hallelluja.

      What did the Lord of Lords, Who spoke to Moses, have to say to Kong? Did he pass on any message? Did he pass on new commandments? Did God come as a burning bush? No, no and no.

      God whispered in his ear. 
      And God said:"Thank you Kong - I love you!" - 
      Isn't God the greatest?

      It was indeed a pityful performance but I bet 99% of the people in the room actually believed it. If this is not boasting "Not only did God speak to me, the great Kong Hee" " No no no, the King of Kings, who did not reply to the pleads of his own son when dying on the cross, took the time to whisper a "Thank you" to Kong.

      Delusional - or - lying...one of the two.

       

       

       

       

  • Zeeleewong's Avatar
    87 posts since Mar '12
    • CHC is My Home, My Family, My Church, My Life.

       

      Pastor Kong dedicates his life to us. He is transforming so many lives by bringing hundreds of thousands of people around the world to Jesus. Did you know that he is not receiving any payments? Did you know he went through a lot of suffering and hardship for us?  Pastor Kong lives up to his promises. He promised us a place to worship, and God gave us Suntect City. What more do you need?

      You have been to our services but could not feel the presence of the Lord? I have no explanation. We can all feel the Holy Spirit, like a fire in our heart, talking through Pastor Kong. You have hardened your heart. When you open up your heart, you will feel what all of us are experiencing every week. God is good. God is love. And God will bless us financially, because He wants us to prosper. God is our father and he will not short-change us.

    • You do not know Pastor Kong like we do. How does shooting at Pastor Kong or CHC benefit you? Pastor Kong would never write or publish anything slanderous like you just did.

      I will pray for you.

  • James_Tan_1983's Avatar
    63 posts since Jan '12
    • I found an article on mind control interesting enough to apply it to CHC. The original article was written by Mr. John Blatt and can be found here. If you like the article, feel free to distribute to your CHC friends. Any CHC member is welcome to post comments in this blog.

       

      HOW DOES CHC MIND CONTROL WORK?
      <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
      <!--[endif]-->

      "COERCIVE PERSUASION" is defined as an effective restraining, impairing, or compelling process through the gradual application of PSYCHOLOGICAL FORCES.

      The coercive persuasion program - within CHC it is called "The CHC Statements of Faith" - is a behavioral change technology applied to cause the "learning" and "adoption" of a set of behaviours or an ideology under certain conditions. It is distinguished from other forms of benign social learning or peaceful persuasion by the conditions under which it is conducted and by the techniques of environmental and interpersonal manipulation employed to suppress particular behaviours and to train others. Over time, coercive persuasion, a psychological force akin in some ways to our legal concepts of undue influence, is MORE effective than pain, torture, drugs, and use of physical force and legal threats.


      The effects CHC is able to achieve with coercive persuasion are devastating. With coercive persuasion Kong Hee is changing a person's will without their knowledge and volition. Kong Hee is creating new "attitudes" where CHC members will do things willingly which they formerly may have detested, things which previously only physical pain, or drugs could have coerced them to do. In effect, CHC’ers desires change, their viewpoints change, and their feelings change through this controlled persuasion. People in CHC have no idea of the depth of change that this type of persuasion is bringing to their person, even changing them in "an instant". This seems impossible and that is a part of its strength and deceitfulness.

      The anxiety and emotional stress production technologies used  in CHC Coercive Persuasion supersede any physical style coercion that focuses on pain, drugs, or threat in that these physical systems of coercion do not change an attitude so that subjects follow orders "willingly." CHC  Coercive Persuasion changes both attitude AND behavior, not JUST behavior. Did you ever meet a CHC member who did not claim their life was changed?

      CHC Coercive Persuasion is best understood as a coordinated system of graduated coercive influence and behaviour modification designed to change the wills and volition of members, usually in a cellgroup or bible school  setting, in order for the Kong Hee and his entourage to spiritually and psychologically profit from this persuasion to validate their own program and to continue the feeling that the program gives each converted person. The CHC Coercive Persuasion is a psychological program that is inherently addictive in itself, because the program makes itself the sole purpose of life and feeling. My Church – My Family-My Life. This is one of the reasons why it is so hard on many levels to deprogram and be freed from this psychological addiction of this program.

      The essential strategy is based on the systematic selecting, sequencing and coordination of several coercive persuasion tactics over CONTINUOUS PERIODS OF TIME. There are seven known and studied tactic types in various combinations in the coercive Persuasion programs. A coercive persuasion program can still be quite effective without the presence of ALL seven of these tactic types. Let’s take a closer look at the tactics. You can decide for yourself which tactics are applied by Kong Hee and his CHC.
      <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
      <!--[endif]-->


      TACTIC 1. The individual is prepared for thought reform through increased suggestibility and/or "softening up," specifically through suggestibility-increasing techniques such as audio, visual, verbal, or tactile fixation drills (anything that is "moving" to the emotions as well as to the mind, i.e., worship music, dancing, embraces, stirring preaching or instructional teaching from a pulpit) and excessive repetition of routine activities.

      How often have CHC services been  referred to as “Rock Concerts” or “MLM” events?  It becomes more clear why Kong Hee does not object to this description as it takes the focus away from mind control. Nobody will disagree that CHC is for sure applying tactic nr.1


      TACTIC 2. Using rewards and punishments, efforts are made to establish considerable control over a person's social environment, time, and sources of social support. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with family and friends is abridged, as is contact with persons who do not share church-approved attitudes. Psychological and emotional dependence on the group is fostered.

      How much of their personal time do CHC members spend on CHC versus normal people’s activities? CHC members can answer for themselves, yet my estimate would be: pretty much all of the time is spend with CHC friends. My estimated guess is that CHC members would not be able to endure spending a night discussing Christianity with other-than-CHC Christians or Catholics.My experience,  CHC’ers feel ridiculed very quickly and will leave the scene. Somehow they seem to feel that what they are doing is weird in the eyes of regular society. Build on solid ground is different.

      Tactic 2 – mild yes.



      TACTIC 3. Disconfirming information and non-supporting opinions are prohibited in CHC communication. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled, especially communication from Kong Hee. Kong Hee's communication is one-way,  and nothing is to contradict that communication.

      At the least, criticism is discouraged. There is no formal process to convey doubts in CHC. Criticism is stopped at the cell group level. Service in Suntec 3 weeks ago: Kong Hee ranted for 90 minutes on “We must stand united”. “If there is any criticism, it must be in line with the managements thinking otherwise we create chaos. We can therefore safety say that Kong Hee is using tactic nr.3.


      TACTIC 4. Frequent and intense attempts are made to cause a person to re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize and undermine the subject's basic consciousness, reality awareness, world view, emotional control, and defense mechanisms as well as getting them to reinterpret their life's history, and adopt a new version of causality.

      CHC calls this "sanctification". It starts with the water baptizing where the “old self” is washed away and replaced by the “new improved self”. Tactic nr. 5 is a yes for Kong Hee.

      TACTIC 5. Intense and frequent attempts are made to undermine a person's confidence in himself and his judgment, creating a sense of powerlessness. The only power that can help is God, or more precisely, CHC’s version of God. Kong Hee is relied upon to hold the truth, understand the bible and for "encouragement" to "be close to God"

      Despite lack of formal Bible training, dubious internet acquired degree, everything Kong Hee says is swallowed by the CHC members as the absolute truth.

      Despite lack of formal Bible training, dubious internet acquired degree, everything Kong Hee says is swallowed by the CHC members as the absolute truth. How to doubt a person that just received a personal “Thank You” from God himself. Tactic nr. 5 – tick.



      TACTIC 6. Nonphysical punishments are used such as humiliation (private and public confession of sin), loss of privilege (suspension or excommunication from the CHC), social isolation (from the world and the "unbelievers" as well as from erring or heretical Christians that doesn't agree with CHC), social status changes (from being a "respectable" and "stable" Christian to a "weak" or "unstable" Christian – “Are you in a cellgroup?”), intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques for creating strong aversive emotional arousals, etc.

      This is a more difficult one to prove. I guess CHC members would be a better judge on “how much do they rely on CHC in their life”. “How would CHC members coop in a world without Kong Hee?” Is the exaggerated reaction of multiple CHC members to the CAD investigations the consequence of fear of losing CHC?

      TACTIC 7. Certain psychological threats (force) are used or are present: That failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief, or consequent behaviour will lead to punishment or dire consequence, (e.g. physical or mental illness given by God, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, worldliness, personal economic collapse, social failure, divorce, failure to find a mate, etc.).

      CHC’ers definitely believe that God heals “quickly” when “seed” is planted. The only thing CHC’ers can tell themselves when the “harvest” is not coming in, is that their faith is not strong enough. It’s either that, or they did not believe in the harvest in the first place.

      CHC definitely scores high. One could ask the question: Doesn’t any organization apply similar tactics? Answer to that is no. Sorry my friends CHC’ers.

      The following set of criteria has to do with defining other common elements of mind control systems.
      If most of Robert Jay Lifton's eight point model of thought reform is being used in an organization, it is most likely a dangerous and destructive cultlike organisation. CHC is a dangerous and destructive cult (please note that "dangerous and destructive" does NOT mean that it must be PHYSICAL. The dangerousness and destructiveness is a psychological, emotional and spiritual one. Just because Kong Hee doesn't create personal or public violence does NOT mean that it is not severely destructive on many other levels). If you are a CHC member, you will be able to see that every sentence of these following points are prevalent within City Harvest Church. Meaning: Yes, you are part of a cult in the understanding of the general public. And yes, this is way people find your actions weird sometimes.
      <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
      <!--[endif]-->

      The eight points follow:

      Robert Jay Lifton's Eight Point Model of Thought Reform (or coercive persuasion)

      1. ENVIRONMENT CONTROL. Limitation of  forms of communication with those outside the group.
      Distinction from the outside world: MY CHURCH – MY LIFE – MY FAMILY.

       


      2. MYSTICAL MANIPULATION. The potential convert to the group becomes convinced of the higher purpose and special calling of the group through a profound encounter or experience, for example, through an alleged miracle or prophetic word or spiritual feeling while within the group.

      Several CHC members will testify on personal healings, spontaneous  speaking in tongues, uncontrollable laughter.

      3. DEMAND FOR PURITY. An explicit goal of the group is to bring about some kind of change, whether it be on a global, social, or personal level. "Perfection is possible if one stays with the group and is committed." For the rest, brothers, rejoice! Perfect yourselves"

      Dear CHC member – you do recognize it, right? Does Kong Hee push you to excel? No, this is not normal behaviour per todays society rules. Kong Hee is a pastor of a Church, and not the manipulator of your life. Or is he?


      4. CULT OF CONFESSION. The unhealthy practice of self disclosure to members in the group. Often (but not always) in the context of a public gathering in the group, admitting past sins and imperfections, even doubts about the group and critical thoughts about the integrity of the leaders.

      Dear CHC member – recognize it? Did you think it was normal?

      5. SACRED SCIENCE. The group's perspective is absolutely true and completely adequate to explain EVERYTHING (CHC rebutes any critical question presented and CHC is the Truth and is capable to explain everything about life and spirituality). The doctrine is not subject to amendments or question. ABSOLUTE conformity to the doctrine is required.

       
      6. LOADED LANGUAGE. A new vocabulary emerges within the context of the group. Group members "think" within the very abstract and narrow parameters of the group's doctrine. The terminology sufficiently stops members from thinking critically by reinforcing a "black and white" mentality. Loaded terms and cliches prejudice thinking.

      Every week words are projected on the screen, and meanings assigned to them. Arise and Build! Dear CHC member, Do you call each other “Brother” and “Sister”? When was the last time you called your real brother (by blood) like that? Is he not worth it?

      7. DOCTRINE OVER PERSON. Pre-group experience and group experience are narrowly and decisively interpreted through the absolute doctrine, even when experience contradicts the doctrine.

      Every week we get something like this. I remember Paul Potts, the gifted singer, winning X-factor thanks to his conversion to Christianity (alluding to CHC). Small detail – Paul Potts never mentions this himself. Second example: Mentally ill Indonesian boy obtains university degree thanks to CHC bible school in Medina. Yes my CHC friends, you swallow this stuff without checking or thinking.


      8. DISPENSING OF EXISTENCE. Salvation is possible only in the group (Christianity). Those who leave the group are doomed.

      “Backsliders” is the word in CHC. Dear CHC, look into yourself, can you recall one ex CHC member who left for legitimate reason? Or was the blame always put on the backslider? his divorce? His parents? Did CHC ever do anything wrong?

      Any group that has most or all of these points is a destructive mind control cult.

      CHC COERCIVE PERSUASION IS NOT PEACEFUL PERSUASION

      The CHC tactics have the elements of attempting to greatly modify a person's self-concept, perceptions of reality, and interpersonal relations. The CHC coercive thought reform programs also, among other things, create the potential forces necessary for exercising undue influence over a person's independent decision-making ability, and even for turning the individual into a deployable agent for the organization's benefit without the individual's meaningful knowledge or consent.

      The CHC Coercive Persuasion programs are effective because members experiencing the deliberately planned severe stresses they generate can only reduce the pressures by accepting the CHC proposed system or adopting the CHC behaviours being promulgated by Kong Hee. The relationship between the CHC member and the coercive persuasion tactics are DYNAMIC in that while the force of the pressures, rewards, and punishments brought to bear on the person are considerable, they do not lead to a stable, meaningfully SELF-CHOSEN reorganization of beliefs or attitudes. Rather, they lead to a sort of coerced compliance and a situational required elaborate rationalization, for the new conduct. With this being said the mind will reconstruct its reality and will view everything through this new reality. The construct of this new reality, to the new convert, is perfect and whole and beautiful even though it is psychologically devastating and logically contradictory. The CHC mind cannot see its own blind-spots. It sees no contradictions, no dangers, no imperfections, yet this is the Matrix that is the CHC Coercion Persuasion Program.

      Once again, in order to maintain the new attitudes or "decisions," sustain the rationalization, and continue to unduly influence a person's behaviour over time, coercive tactics must be more or less CONTINUOUSLY applied, thus the need to be a consistent member CHC.


      Looking like peaceful persuasion is precisely what makes CHC coercive persuasion less likely to attract attention or to mobilize opposition. It is also part of what makes it such a devastating control technology. Victims of coercive persuasion have: no signs of physical abuse, convincing rationalizations for the radical or abrupt changes in their behaviour, a convincing "sincerity", and/or they have been changed so gradually that they don't oppose it because they usually aren't even aware of it.

      <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
      <!--[endif]-->

  • alize's Avatar
    3,369 posts since Dec '10
  • Zeeleewong's Avatar
    87 posts since Mar '12
    • My comments are written with a sincere heart. It was not my intention to be amusing at all. It saddens my heart to read all the lies and slander about my church. CHC IS NOT A CULT. If CHC was a cult there would not be so many of us. Our faith is build on solid ground. 

      I have reported this site to my cell group leader. She will pass on the information to our leadership. Mr. James Tan, you are no better than all other satan followers who have nothing better to do than throw dirt at a group of good Christians. You can expect to receive a lawsuite for defamation very soon. And later, God will judge you too.

      God bless.

  • Dalforce 1941's Avatar
    2,185 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Zeeleewong:

      You can expect to receive a lawsuite for defamation very soon. 

      Is City Harvest going to shoot one lawyer's letter to sgforums?

  • Pinknutri's Avatar
    648 posts since Jan '10
    • Originally posted by Zeeleewong:

      My comments are written with a sincere heart. It was not my intention to be amusing at all. It saddens my heart to read all the lies and slander about my church. CHC IS NOT A CULT. If CHC was a cult there would not be so many of us. Our faith is build on solid ground. 

      I have reported this site to my cell group leader. She will pass on the information to our leadership. Mr. James Tan, you are no better than all other satan followers who have nothing better to do than throw dirt at a group of good Christians. You can expect to receive a lawsuite for defamation very soon. And later, God will judge you too.

      God bless.

      Mr. James Tan, you are no better than all other satan followers

      May I know who are the "all other satan followers" you are referring to?  Are you referring to all the non chrisitans?

       

      Edited by Pinknutri 08 Mar `12, 3:52PM
    • Originally posted by Zeeleewong:

      My comments are written with a sincere heart. It was not my intention to be amusing at all. It saddens my heart to read all the lies and slander about my church. CHC IS NOT A CULT. If CHC was a cult there would not be so many of us. Our faith is build on solid ground. 

      I have reported this site to my cell group leader. She will pass on the information to our leadership. Mr. James Tan, you are no better than all other satan followers who have nothing better to do than throw dirt at a group of good Christians. You can expect to receive a lawsuite for defamation very soon. And later, God will judge you too.

      God bless.

      Lawsuit? Christians have much to learn from Buddhists and Muslims. See what happened at NUS lately. Christians defamed Buddhism and Islam but Buddhists and Muslims did not issue any lawsuit for defamation. There are more cases like Rony Tan case, did Buddhists issue lawsuit? If Buddhists were to behave people like you, I guess Christians will be going to court for countless of times.

      Edited by Pinknutri 08 Mar `12, 4:13PM
  • alize's Avatar
    3,369 posts since Dec '10
    • Originally posted by Zeeleewong:

      My comments are written with a sincere heart. It was not my intention to be amusing at all. It saddens my heart to read all the lies and slander about my church. CHC IS NOT A CULT. If CHC was a cult there would not be so many of us. Our faith is build on solid ground. 

      I have reported this site to my cell group leader. She will pass on the information to our leadership. Mr. James Tan, you are no better than all other satan followers who have nothing better to do than throw dirt at a group of good Christians. You can expect to receive a lawsuite for defamation very soon. And later, God will judge you too.

      God bless.

      I find this difficult to follow. The thread starter said little about your church, but said much about what to do there. He described not your church's practices but a hpyothetical member's. If by analogy someone gave advice on how to excel or to slack off while in NS, would it damage the reputation of the SAF and be cause for a defamation suit?

      Supposing he posted something else defamatory. Would it be wise for you to start a landmark case, holistically considering the situation your church is in? Thread starter has not described your church's practices, but would it prompt others to question these practices?

      Likewise if someone else faithfully represented your church's practices and gave a personal opinion on them- see example below. Would it be cause for a defamation suit?

      http://singaporeseen.stomp.com.sg/stomp/sgseen/this_urban_jungle/386680/see_how_city_harvest_pastor_asks_people_for_donations.html

      Edited by alize 08 Mar `12, 4:29PM
  • JoeRaj's Avatar
    1,274 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by James_Tan_1983:

      I hope people can see the humour of this, and start to think again.

       

      1. Confess to the world that you love Jesus, and intend to follow Him and devote your life to Him. It does not matter if you do not mean it, just saying it will guarantee acceptance from your CHC brothers and sisters.

      2. Acquire the skill of speaking in tongues, get water-baptized and claim you feel that your life has been change. Do not pass on any opportunity to claim that your conversion is attributed to Kong Hee only.

      3. Attend all CHC services and events. In case you fail to go to service, follow the service on your iPad, iPhone, or Mac Workbook. Consequently post some willy nilly phrases on your facebook to create the impression that you were in church. If you do not own a iPAd or iPhone, pretend to put money in the envelope yet instead use it to purchase this necessity.

      4.Use following rules of conduct during worship:

      -- Put your face into the “gaze into eternity” mode: practice to perfection in front of the mirror.

      -- Raise your hands in devotion: this part is easy ,just follow your neighbour worshipper.

      --Sing along with all the songs. If you do not know the words, pretend as the music is so loud that nobody will tell the difference

      --Always stand up when asked to do so, and start to clap frantically when Kong Hee releases the “Let’s-give-the-lord-a-clap” command.

      -- Wiping away a tear once in a while and sighing every 4 minutes might get you on the video screen. This earns respect from fellow worshippers

      -- Shout “Amen”, “Hallelujah”, “Praise the lord”, “Thank you Jesus” or read the words in bold on the screen out loud, when instructed by Kong Hee.

      --This is also the time to put your newly acquired “speaking in tongues” into practice. Don't be nervous and do not hold back, just shut down your brain and make it up as you go along. everybody else does. A few beers before service might help.

      --Extra devotional points, and guaranteed camera coverage can be obtained by falling to the floor, shaking your body, laughing frantically while yelling “AH-JAYSUS”

      --If any first timers stand up next to you, be the first to welcome them to the greatest church in Singapore. If hot and sexy, hug them.

      --Always check who is sitting next to you. Ensure you are seated next to good looking fellow members. Chances are, Kong Hee will ask you to hug them, or hold their hand. And when, no need to hold back, give it a good squeeze as Kong Hee has allowed you to do.   

      5. Every service, make sure you put a large amount of money in the bucket. Make sure that everyone in your vicinity sees you giving money. Try to get camera attention by letting the tears run from your eyes. If you have no money, pretend, the room is too dark  for anybody to notice. Better to keep the money for the cellgroup meeting’s offering, so you can boast how generous you are, and avoid being reported to Kong Hee.

      6. When listening to Kong Hee, or your CHC friends, occasionally confuse something they say with something that Jesus had said. This will impress them, and they will think highly of you. Or at least you will not be blacklisted yet.

      7. Stop reading the Bible. Only read from your notes from CHC Bible school, or the services. Preferably learn following verses by heart, or have page markers, so you can quickly pull them out:

      Malachi 3:10
      Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the LORD Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heavenAND POUR OUT SO MUCH BLESSING THAT THERE WILL NOT BE ROOM ENOUGH TO STORE IT.

      Joshua 1:8 
      for then thou shalt make thy way PROSPEROUS, and then thou shalt HAVE GOOD SUCCESS

      Isaiah 54:17
      No weapon that is formed against thee shall PROSPER

      3 John 1:2
      I wish above all things that thou mayest PROSPER and be in HEALTH, even as thy soulPROSPERETH

      Phil 4:18
      But my God SHALL SUPPLY ALL YOUR NEED ACCORDING TO HIS RICHES …

      2 Cor 8:9
      For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was RICH (important to stop the verse right here )

      Job 8:5,7 
      and make the habitation of thy righteousness PROSPEROUS. 7 Though thy beginning was small, yet thy latter end should GREATLY INCREASE 

      Job 22:25
      Yea, the Almighty shall be thy defence, and thou shalt have PLENTY OF SILVER.

       

      Avoid any verses that sound like: suffering of Christ -- Camels going thru needle eyes -- Thou shall be content -- the Son of God had nowhere to lay is head  -- Thou shall not add anything to the Word of God -- Only 2 maximum 3 can speak in tongues -- False prophets come with great signs …

      and discard all the verses where God kills firstborns, pregnant women, as you have not learned to put them into context, it might damage your gullible spirituality.

      8. Regularly quote Kong Hee. This will impress other CHC’ers of your “Biblical” knowledge, even if you do not know squat about theology.

      9. Believe in all Kong Hee’s, or CHC guest’s revelations, regardless of how silly they may seem.   Even if you do not believe in them, just pretend, same as everybody else.

      10. Abandon all sound reason and critical thinking. This is imperative. It is not possible to become an honest CHC member if you question Kong Hee’s teachings with reason or scepticism. This would be the fastest way for you to become a “backslider”.

      11. Smile a lot to everyone you see. Say you love them even when you hate them. You must pretend at all costs, to love your worst enemies even if it kills them in the end. This is even more valid towards NCC and FCBC members. See also next point.

      12. Attempt to convert your “unbelieving” friends. This means mainstream Christians, as well as NCC and FCBC non-believers. Make an ass out of yourself to the point of getting them angry. Make sure you always keep smiling and tell them how much you love them. This will escalate their anger and leave you fully satisfied. If they persist, claim that they are in league with the Devil and only faith in Jesus can release them (make sure you keep smiling).

      13. If anyone presents reasonable arguments against CHC, simply go into denial. Say that their tempting only makes your faith grow stronger. Never submit to them. No worries, after 3 services or so, the Kong Hee mantra “Do not let them hijack your faith” will kick in automatically.

      14. If anybody quotes a verse from the Bible that contradicts Kong Hee’s position, simply say that they're taking that verse out of context. The out-of-context ploy will get you out of many difficult situations and will make it seem that you actually understand the correct context when in fact you don't.

      15. Advertise your CHC membership.
      Examples: keep a Kong Hee (for the females*) or Sun Ho (for the males*) picture in your wallet or use him as your wallpaper. Always positive to wear Ed Hardy clothes from Christian Audigier or accessoires from Skin Couture. * The reverse is not allowed as Kong Hee does not like gay people.

      16. Show unconditional support to Kong Hee. If the situation requires, drag banners into service or call to arms on the internet. Violently disagree when accussed of idolizing Kong Hee or Sun Ho

      17. Marry within the church and send your kids to the free-of charge brainwash sessions in “children’s church. Profess family values. If you catch your hubby cheating on you, never let CHC know. Never get a divorce, regardless of how miserable you both feel. If the news does get out, pray you have money so you can have the Jack Neo treatment.

      18. Buy all the "devotional" material that is on offer. Make sure your cell group leader hears about this. If it is Sun Ho developed stuff, buy in 10-fold to ensure extra blessings.

      19. The ultimate sacrifice and and all time CHC nr. 1 will always be: Give your possessions away to CHC. The Bible says give all you have to anyone who asks (Luke 6:30). Kong Hee is asking every week to give him all your money, to sell your house, car,… Warning: If you do not do this, you are disobeying a direct Jesus request. However, if you do obey this command, Kong Hee will guarantee you a Christian position and you will garner his greatest esteem and respect until the well dries up.

      I can definitely see the humour, and logic in it.

      Of course not everything you say might be correct, btu definitely not all of it is wrong either.

  • Zeeleewong's Avatar
    87 posts since Mar '12
    • James_Tan_1983 is putting CHC in a bad light. The reader gets the impression that CHC is a cult. WE ARE NOT A CULT. We are a group of loving Christians worshipping Jesus with all our heart. We are not some group of religious freaks.

      The bible says that he who is not with us is against us. Those who are against CHC are satan followers. 

       

  • JoeRaj's Avatar
    1,274 posts since Dec '11
    • Originally posted by Zeeleewong:

      James_Tan_1983 is putting CHC in a bad light. The reader gets the impression that CHC is a cult. WE ARE NOT A CULT. We are a group of loving Christians worshipping Jesus with all our heart. We are not some group of religious freaks.

      The bible says that he who is not with us is against us. Those who are against CHC are satan followers. 

       

      I did not form an opinion that CHC is a cult reading James' post.He was merely offering some views against the teachings or practises of CHC.

      I will agree with you that it isn't a cult, it can be considered a church.

      But what is a far greater wrong than any of the comments that he has made is your mistaken view and wrong interpretation of what the Bible mentioned - 'those who are not with you are against you'.

      You mean to say if the Methodist, Presbyterian, Catholic, Baptist or any other church disagrees with the methods of CHC, or CHC's interpretation of certain biblical laws or teaching, then they are "satan's followers', merely because they are not with you?

      Please la, surely, you can be better than that. If you really are the Christian that you claim you are or a devout follower of CHC that preaches Christian values, the primary ones - loving God with all your heart, mind etc and your neighbour as yourself, and if you also believe in Divine forgiveness, you'll apologise to him and take that back.

      The verse you use, is not for situations like these, it's for those who reject the principle tenet of Christianity - the salvation of men through the Lord's sacrifice on the Cross, and by doing so would reject the Holy Spirit, since it's He who brings that message to mankind.

      Churches are only vehicles which are used to pass that message on, or places where the faithful come to worship. To put the CHC or any church on the same pedestal as you are quick to do, and denounce anyone who doesn't subscribe to it, as followers of the devil, is wrong and reprehensible.

      Rather it is the person who isn't afraid to voice the true meaning of faith, even if it means questioning the methods or practises of any church that strays from it, that person must be allowed to speak the truth without fear.

      As another verse puts it - Speak forth the truth for the truth shall set you free. Like I said, doesn't means all he says is wrong or right. Your duty would simply be to speak the truth as you see it, and let the Lord be the final judge.

      It's afterall God that calls out to man, and the One that determines who receives or doesn't receive His Salvation. You do your duty as you see fit, and lets leave God to His.

  • Pinknutri's Avatar
    648 posts since Jan '10
    • Originally posted by Zeeleewong:

      James_Tan_1983 is putting CHC in a bad light. The reader gets the impression that CHC is a cult. WE ARE NOT A CULT. We are a group of loving Christians worshipping Jesus with all our heart. We are not some group of religious freaks.

      The bible says that he who is not with us is against us. Those who are against CHC are satan followers. 

       

      James Tan's post did not give me the impression that CHC is cult but your post above is giving that impression especially this statement :Those who are against CHC are satan followers. May be you can say people who are against CHC are ignorant about your religion and church but accusing people who are against CHC are satan followers. You must be brain washed! From this statement, I'm starting  to question is  CHC really a cult.

  • Zeeleewong's Avatar
    87 posts since Mar '12
    • You are twisting the facts. James is slandering CHC. What else is coercive persuasion? What about the cult topics he posted?  We at CHC do not slander other religions. You put those words in my mouth. We do not say other Christians are all wrong. Maybe some of us are more right. It's all about the interpretation, isn't it.

      You have your interpretation of faith, and we have ours. Who's right. Only God can judge. I put my faith and trust in Pastor Kong. Why do you think we are the biggest church in Asia? This is God showing appreciation for CHC. We are harvesting our seeds. God did whisper a thank you to Pastor Kong for all his good work. This touched my heart. No need for James to call Pastor Kong delusional. He does not know Pastor Kong like we do. Everything is possible with God. God is on our side.

      God also speaks to me. Everytime I read the Bible I have revelations. God guides me in my path. Wonderful things have happened to me during service. My headache once disappeared when Pastor Kong started preaching, and I was not even close to the stage. One time, our cell group burst out in laughter, and we could not stop. The Holy Spirit is with us. Many more things have happened which I do not want to share. You would not understand

      In the end, it is all about a personal relationship with God. Do you have a personal relationship with God? Do you feel the presence of the Lord in your services?  It is all about balance. God is love. He loves us like a father. 

      God bless!

       

  • Aneslayer's Avatar
    1,511 posts since May '11
    • Originally posted by Zeeleewong:

      You are twisting the facts. James is slandering CHC. What else is coercive persuasion? What about the cult topics he posted?  We at CHC do not slander other religions. You put those words in my mouth. We do not say other Christians are all wrong. Maybe some of us are more right. It's all about the interpretation, isn't it.

      You have your interpretation of faith, and we have ours. Who's right. Only God can judge. I put my faith and trust in Pastor Kong. Why do you think we are the biggest church in Asia? This is God showing appreciation for CHC. We are harvesting our seeds. God did whisper a thank you to Pastor Kong for all his good work. This touched my heart. No need for James to call Pastor Kong delusional. He does not know Pastor Kong like we do. Everything is possible with God. God is on our side.

      God also speaks to me. Everytime I read the Bible I have revelations. God guides me in my path. Wonderful things have happened to me during service. My headache once disappeared when Pastor Kong started preaching, and I was not even close to the stage. One time, our cell group burst out in laughter, and we could not stop. The Holy Spirit is with us. Many more things have happened which I do not want to share. You would not understand

      In the end, it is all about a personal relationship with God. Do you have a personal relationship with God? Do you feel the presence of the Lord in your services?  It is all about balance. God is love. He loves us like a father. 

      God bless!

       

      If you have HAD a personal relationship with Jesus, you wouldn't have boasted being in the biggest church in Asia... Out of curiousity, just what are you planting that you intend to harvest? 

       

      God is above law. God does not need defence. If God has given Pastor Kong what he has, and He has not withdrawn, who can take anything from him or would He not replace the loss? So why are you so defensive about this? Love is gentle, love is kind. I suppose you are lacking in it...

      Edited by Aneslayer 08 Mar `12, 10:25PM
  • Zeeleewong's Avatar
    87 posts since Mar '12
    • I feel Christ everytime we worship Him. My whole body tingles when the Holy Ghost descends over me.

      I am not boasting. It is simply a fact.  We are proud of our achievements. It confirms that what we are doing is right.

      We plant seeds of faith. We tithe and we offer so God will provide abundantly. James was almost right on this one 1 Kings 8:38: God will hear whoever stretches out his hand.

      God is above the law. But God also warns us for false teachers. Why would He do that? Because He wants us to be on guard and defend the faith. Pastor Kong held a great sermon about God's army a few weeks ago. CHC is God's army and we must defend our faith relentlessly. 

       

      God bless!

       

  • alize's Avatar
    3,369 posts since Dec '10
    • I suppose if you were SMRT, you would think you are entitled to sue those behind the satirical musical, Trainstopping?

    • Originally posted by Zeeleewong: Those who are against CHC are satan followers.

      I also think that statement is unwarranted. If there are churches that disagree with CHC, what does it make them?

      I've been to CHC before. Was it not said: do not date others not from any church or even from different churches, because they may disagree with CHC and cause you to weaken your faith?

      Edited by alize 09 Mar `12, 12:25AM
  • laurence82's Avatar
    125,854 posts since Nov '03
  • Aneslayer's Avatar
    1,511 posts since May '11
    • "I feel Christ everytime we worship Him. My whole body tingles when the Holy Ghost descends over me."

      Call me skeptical... I get goose bumps when cold or listening to certain music or seeing certain arrangement of lights.

       

      "I am not boasting. It is simply a fact.  We are proud of our achievements. It confirms that what we are doing is right."

      There's really nothing to be proud of... being the biggest church... To use Pastor Kong's adage, "God loves quality over quantity". "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;"

       

      "We plant seeds of faith. We tithe and we offer so God will provide abundantly. James was almost right on this one 1 Kings 8:38: God will hear whoever stretches out his hand."

      Ahem... "And Jesus said unto them, come ye after me,.... Leave your worldly employments, and become my disciples, and I will make you to become fishers of men: which will be a much more excellent and honourable employment, as men, and the souls of men, are more excellent, and of more worth than fishes" 

      By the way, God will provide regardlessly, its the greed of men that's insatiable.

       

      "God is above the law. But God also warns us for false teachers. Why would He do that? Because He wants us to be on guard and defend the faith. Pastor Kong held a great sermon about God's army a few weeks ago. CHC is God's army and we must defend our faith relentlessly. "

      Jesus never needed an army... because God already has a BIG one.  "But I say to you that hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To him who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from him who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt. Give to every one who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again.And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to receive as much again. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the selfish. Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful. "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven; give, and it will be given to you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For the measure you give will be the measure you get back."

      I hope this will bring you to why people loves Jesus, apart from his inevitable sacrifice. The beautitudes. <---- click!!!!

Please Login or Signup to reply.