Hindu Priest Suffers Serious Religious Assault in Singapore
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
shut up and sit down, pu bor kia.
"pu bor kia"??? what is that? -
Definitely shame on the whole race especially those of same religion!!!!!
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when i visited india at the gate of india where queen victoria first step into india, there was alot of brahmin priest there conning people on charm and flowering stuffs, wha lau, keep pestering me, and i stayed the Taj Mahal hotel just oppositie only..lucky no bombing at that time.
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Ah yes .... prime news
so it really WAS an elaborate chao keng case after all ... I knew there was something fishy in the first place !
"Hunger strike until death" ... lol .... but eating cut fruit in DB, on only a five day sentence is okie ? .... so drama
the fellow should be sentenced longer, and the father too, the fellow who actually started this whole online thing .....
this bunch of shit stirrers not only trod on dangerous territory of race and religion, but more importantly, they opened up an avenue for people who want to push their ulterior agendas against our society too ... so they think they can just fling such dangerous allegations around and then just pat their backside and waltz off like that pretending nothing's happened ? ....
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Originally posted by angel7030:
"pu bor kia"??? what is that?
incestous son. -
I feel for this person who sticks by his religious beliefs. However, the complication is that: rules are rules (hate to mention this myself..). As some previous posters have mentioned, everyone is treated the same regardless creed, language and all that. I do hope both sides can reach a mutual agreement without compromising what other NS-serving men are following.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
Ah yes .... prime news
so it really WAS an elaborate chao keng case after all ... I knew there was something fishy in the first place !
"Hunger strike until death" ... lol .... but eating cut fruit in DB, on only a five day sentence is okie ? .... so drama
the fellow should be sentenced longer, and the father too, the fellow who actually started this whole online thing .....
this bunch of shit stirrers not only trod on dangerous territory of race and religion, but more importantly, they opened up an avenue for people who want to push their ulterior agendas against our society too ... so they think they can just fling such dangerous allegations around and then just pat their backside and waltz off like that pretending nothing's happened ? ....
Not only was the wayang malingerer eating cut fruits, the father who's been posting in Asiaone forum and SGforum about his son being oppressed by Mindef to practise his 'priesthood', admitted in Asiaone before the ST story ran, that the wayang had been eating fruits in DB.
Father felt heart pain, revealed that his son was only given an apple and a pear in spite of his self-imposed hunger strike, he also tried to accuse the officer in charge of DB claiming that a full COL told him "only if there is more fruits, would he be given some". If you read, you'll see an Asiaone forumer asking "I thought he is on hunger strike?"
Father also asked for milk for son.Tattva Vit Das is the newly created handle of the father in Asiaone forum. This is the thread he started. http://forums.asiaone.com/showthread.php?t=21491&page=5
Quote Tattva Vit Das's post 22-07-2009, 05:33 PM on that page "This is the height of insensitiveness. Today, at 2:30pm, the father of the victim, Sundar Gopal Das got an appointment with his son, Madana Mohan Das at the Detention Barracks.
Now, Madana Mohan Das is given only one apple and one pear at lunch time and nothing else throughout the day. This has been happenning for the last 48 hours. He is already on drips now, being extremely weak.
His father asked the colonel in charge of the Detention Barracks to at least provide Madana Mohan Das with more fruits. The colonel flatly replied that if he has, he shall give, otherwise he shall not. He pleaded to the colonel whether he can at least give him some milk. He said that he cannot do so as there is no milk in the camp at all. Upon pleading, he agreed to give some condensed milk if he had some to give.
The poor boy, how long will he able to sustain himself like this? And there is no clue as to when the court marshal is.
Now WHAT IS THIS? HELL ON EARTH? Why are they torturing him? What nonsense? What is his mistake? This is the punishment for being a simple priest? Even an ordinary criminal is given better treatment inside the DB.
Is this the behavior of a developed nation? What's going on? Where is justice?" -
i think the father should also go into detention too, this for being so kapo and bringing up a son that cannot control his own destination!!
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Originally posted by Nighthawkies:
This Nikar7 guys is a "Chee Hong" fellow. Just look at his previous postings. Just long as you're "female" or believed to be female. He will suck up to you and defend everything that is written.
I seriously doubt he had done any NS so dun expect him to be matured in his thinking. He is still a "boy".
no leh the pu bor kia only sucks to and defends to DEATH whatever that's written against the following: SAF/Gov/Ruling party/Singapore. if the same idiot says "sex with a dog is better than with Nikar" and "PAP sucks", the pu bor kia will also agree with that idiot hhahaa -
Well, maybe they do not know the defination of hunger when they say that he is going on a hunger strike...
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Originally posted by Fatum:
exactly ! .....
if you ask nicely, don't rock the boat, you'll get what you want ... up to a point ....
like I said ..... yet again .... we are all chaps who have served NS before ... we know that those career officers would more often than not, not rock the boat and thus jeopardize his own ass and career ......and everyone knows issues of race and religion is a sensitive subject in Singapore .... you can imagine any SAF officer who would dare dick around religious and medical issues unless he's sure what he's doing is the right thing ? ....
for them to play hardball with this chap ... the powers-that-be must have wasted kilowatts of electricity sending emails and memos and cc'ing it around, and destroyed entire forests printing everything out ...and knocked a lot of heads together discussing how to respond, especially after MPs and Ministers were hauled in.
somewhere along the line, they have put their collective asses together and decided to say NO to this chap ..... even after taking into account that this man is a potential shit stirrer, cos he's already gone to MPs and Ministers before ......
you think they would just say no out of bloody-mindedness ? .... and risk their asses and careers and crabs ? .... of course not .... that's why I do not buy the TS' story .... there are things that he's not telling us, only protraying himself as the victim ...
and of course, I have encountered such characters during my service before too, shit stirrers who just die die have to keng special privileges for himself, stay outs, no duties, inviolate weekends, early bookouts etc .... in the end, it's the other men of the unit that has to shoulder the extra responsibilities ..... my sympathies go to his unit mates, not to that shit stirrer ....
Your tendency to ponder on your observations is commendable. It shows the ability of critical thinking. But your inference on the motivation of an officer giving leeway to his men is actually the exact opposite of the truth. I guess it's because you were viewing from the perspective of a non commander.
The truth is, it's far easier to be rigid, unbending and throw the book at any man who asks for favours. This is because, when shit hits the fan, a commander may most certainly get into trouble for bending the rules (and going against SAF policy) to help his man, but no commander has ever gotten into trouble with higher ups for going by the book, EVEN if the higher-up wants to give leeway after man kicks a fuss, because the commander can always say "I was going by the book and following our policy. You want to bend it? Fine. You're higher than me it's your call but I was in no wrong and no one can touch me"
Let me give you an example. Lets say you go to your OC/CO saying you have a medical allergy to the color green, and you can only wear pink if not you itch. If you wear green, you will develop itchy red rashes all over on the parts that green touch you hence you can't wear SAF no.4. If your OC/CO is kuai lan, he will say "No such thing, sorry, I want to go by the book. you complain to Teo Chee Hean, PM or president if you want. We see how."
So you go complain to minister, PM or president, and if they say you deserve to wear green, the story ends. Even if they say "How can? So poor thing. He wear green, his whole body head to toe itches. Itchy soldier in the jungle is not a useful one anyway. Let him wear pink one." Guess what? Even then, no one, not even the President can do anything to the OC/CO because the latter was "going by the book" hence on paper, no one can touch a go-by-the-book commander. At most they'll quietly think the guy's not flexible nor a very good leader, but he will definitely NOT get into trouble because no matter what, he can just say he was following the law lor. Its SAF set one, he can say, can you blame me? blame yourself first cos you set the rule?
An officer "going by the book" and is unbending when you ask for favours is the officer that's covering his arse to protect his ricebowl., Not the nice one who tries to be understanding to you. you got the order completely reverse and you don't even know it.
Do you know that the CO of 5SR, who was the commander of the Hindu priest malingerer got into trouble because 'priest' appealed to the CO to let him book out 2/3 times weekly so he could eat his special food, and the CO agreed. And now the priest's father used that to arm twist Mindef, asking how come there's an inconsistency in policy after he was posted to the driving school and the CO there don't allow? My friends in 5SR confirmed that this is the truth.
Do you know that every time your commander bent the rules for you when you asked him for a favour, he did so because he wanted to accommodate you, and he was putting himself on the line if shit hit the fan (and he's well aware but being a good commander is more important to him)? Its interesting that to a man, he views it as 'wah i managed to arm-twist him, he so scared of what will happen to him if i complain or if my parents blow it up big'.Its far easier to go by the book, shiokado, be safe from career harm and just stay out of trouble and be a fucked up leader. If an officer doesn't care about what his men think or whether he's being a good leader or is showing leadership, gaining respect, leading by example, what not..so much easier to cruise. Why go out on a limb?
Through the Net, it's illuminating when we discover the kind of things that goes through the heads of others and both parties are shocked by what they learn.
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This priest does not even have the support of the higher priest or elders of the temple.
Religions have kosher or halal, or vegan requirements, and they also have exceptions.
This priest ought to know there are exceptions, there are conditions were adjustments maybe made.
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Originally posted by insidestory:
Your tendency to ponder on your observations is commendable. It shows the ability of critical thinking. But your inference on the motivation of an officer giving leeway to his men is actually the exact opposite of the truth. I guess it's because you were viewing from the perspective of a non commander.
The truth is, it's far easier to be rigid, unbending and throw the book at any man who asks for favours. This is because, when shit hits the fan, a commander may most certainly get into trouble for bending the rules (and going against SAF policy) to help his man, but no commander has ever gotten into trouble with higher ups for going by the book, EVEN if the higher-up wants to give leeway after man kicks a fuss, because the commander can always say "I was going by the book and following our policy. You want to bend it? Fine. You're higher than me it's your call but I was in no wrong and no one can touch me"
Let me give you an example. Lets say you go to your OC/CO saying you have a medical allergy to the color green, and you can only wear pink if not you itch. If you wear green, you will develop itchy red rashes all over on the parts that green touch you hence you can't wear SAF no.4. If your OC/CO is kuai lan, he will say "No such thing, sorry, I want to go by the book. you complain to Teo Chee Hean, PM or president if you want. We see how."
So you go complain to minister, PM or president, and if they say you deserve to wear green, the story ends. Even if they say "How can? So poor thing. He wear green, his whole body head to toe itches. Itchy soldier in the jungle is not a useful one anyway. Let him wear pink one." Guess what? Even then, no one, not even the President can do anything to the OC/CO because the latter was "going by the book" hence on paper, no one can touch a go-by-the-book commander. At most they'll quietly think the guy's not flexible nor a very good leader, but he will definitely NOT get into trouble because no matter what, he can just say he was following the law lor. Its SAF set one, he can say, can you blame me? blame yourself first cos you set the rule?
An officer "going by the book" and is unbending when you ask for favours is the officer that's covering his arse to protect his ricebowl., Not the nice one who tries to be understanding to you. you got the order completely reverse and you don't even know it.
Do you know that the CO of 5SR, who was the commander of the Hindu priest malingerer got into trouble because 'priest' appealed to the CO to let him book out 2/3 times weekly so he could eat his special food, and the CO agreed. And now the priest's father used that to arm twist Mindef, asking how come there's an inconsistency in policy after he was posted to the driving school and the CO there don't allow? My friends in 5SR confirmed that this is the truth.
Do you know that every time your commander bent the rules for you when you asked him for a favour, he did so because he wanted to accommodate you, and he was putting himself on the line if shit hit the fan (and he's well aware but being a good commander is more important to him)? Its interesting that to a man, he views it as 'wah i managed to arm-twist him, he so scared of what will happen to him if i complain or if my parents blow it up big'.Its far easier to go by the book, shiokado, be safe from career harm and just stay out of trouble and be a fucked up leader. If an officer doesn't care about what his men think or whether he's being a good leader or is showing leadership, gaining respect, leading by example, what not..so much easier to cruise. Why go out on a limb?
Through the Net, it's illuminating when we discover the kind of things that goes through the heads of others and both parties are shocked by what they learn.
so that malingerer priest and his father basically threw his CO under a bus as reward for his kindness. so much for their morals
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Been reserving my comments on this until now.
So, let me summarise the points that I got from the papers:
1. Food - no issue at all. Just ask CQ to indent vegetarian food from the cookhouse.
2. Hair - minor issue. If they really don't allow the hair, then just suck thumb.
In the end, we all gotta give and take.
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I quote from
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_407877.html?vgnmr=1"MR SHRINIWAS Rai, Hindu representative of the Inter-Religious Organisation, said Hindu priests can eat food prepared outside a temple, as long as it is vegetarian. He added that priests should be trained in India, and not everyone can claim to be a priest."
So food is no problem, so long as it is vegeterian .
And I quote
"His father, Mr Sundar Gopal Das, described himself and his son as priests at the Sri Krishna Mandir, a Hare Krishna temple in Geylang Lorong 29.He maintained that as priests, they could not cut all their hair and had to keep a tuft at the back of the head. As for meals, he said they could only eat food prepared at the temple as prayer offerings. "
So cut and keep a tuft at the back of the head lah. This is no issue at all. Why he made a ho ha out of it and went all the way to politicise it?
Reading the news, I can't help but feel that this guy is testing the limit and patience of the SAF.
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Originally posted by av98m:
so that malingerer priest and his father basically threw his CO under a bus as reward for his kindness. so much for their morals
CO5 was kind, but didn't necessarily show sound command. Here's my take on why. I think he did NOT make a sound sound decision giving in to the malingerer.
its 100% untrue that when a commander helps his man, it's because he's afraid for his career (if he's a regular) or afraid to get into trouble (if NSF). In fact, the opposite is true. The easier way to cruise and be fucked up leader is to Throw The Book. It's very simple. Even Spiderman said, with power comes responsibilities.
The burden of leadership is one thing only: responsibility. The easiest way to dodge this responsibility is the path of least resistance. And let me assure all of you a commander's path of least resistance is to throw the book and cruise, thereby washing hands off real command and the need for respect.
In other words, the easiest way to spot a fucked up leader is the one who perpetually throws the book without EVER standing up for his men or thinking for them for a sec. This type we see in abundance don't we? Make no mistake, don't think this 'unbending' leader is good and not scared of breaking rice bowl. Don't be silly. The bookthrowing unbending 'leader' is the kind scared so shitless he's clutching his ricebowl with his dick.
Yet, the mark of sound leadership means standing up for your men, but only in a judicious and sound manner. It means you don't let them monkey you and take you for a fool.
In this case, CO5 showed that he was kind and not the wayang fuck type who just throw-the-book to save his ass, but he also showed lapse in sound leadership in his decision.
In his eager beaverness to be a good leader to the wayang, he didn't realise the following: Wayang claimed he could only eat special food that had to be sanctified by his lim peh's temple and thus asked to book out 2/3 times a week. This involved a permanently (for as long as he's in BMT) different and special routine from the rest of the guys in BMT. He claimed he had to keep a ponytail. This means a marked different appearance from everyone else. The booking out already smacks of kenging desires. What recruits wouldn't give to stay out every night!
It was wise of CO of driving school and subsequently the generals up there to put wayang in his place and tell him to shut up and sit down. Army means you conform to army needs above religious. The sihlks' turban was a legacy passed down from the British army that SAF decided to honour. Not the same. If like that, any ah kow, ah meow next time can say he's priest, pastor or medium and need to book out 4 times a week to bathe in talisman water. CO5 was kind and put himself on the line (in vain), but didn't show sound leadership.
An example of sound leadership and command decision I witnessed? One of the men of a coy asked for two days off in the middle of ATEC prep to attend a outward bound course mandatory for the new job he's been offered. This job requires employee to go through the course and the course only takes place twice a year. If the man who will ORD a month after ATEC misses the course, he has to wait for half a year to take again.
He asked his OC. OC assessed, my man needs to take two days off although it clashes with ATEC training. If I don't let him go off, he has to waste 6 months of his life after he ORDs just because I didn't let him go. He needs the job for his livelihood, and he's serving his NS, FOR THE COUNTRY, under my command. The 2 days off is a one-off. Not a repeated occurence of unfairness. So the OC assessed and let that man go for 2 days.
My OC, who's a scholar no less, was well aware that if shit hit the fan, let's say the guy meets with a motorbike accident when he's out & investigations show that this NSF 'illegally' let off by his OC to go out when he's supposed to be in camp, he (my OC) will GET IT! The OC himself explained to his PC his thought processes and said well, if he gets into trouble while outside, it's my cross to bear. He's serving the country and fights for me and has been a good soldier. Two days off for his future job. It's only right I 'fight' for him too.
Thats what a good leader does. He stands up for his man. He knows his men fight for him on the field. When he can, he will 'fight' back for them and stand up for them.
Contrast to another OC in the same unit, who's well known to indiscriminately charge people over any little thing and never ever looking out or helping them, because all he cares about is his ass. Going By The Book is the easiest way for fucked up commanders who don't give a damn about leadership or the organisation or his men and cares only about his ricebowl. This sort of insecurity usually comes from a self awareness that the ricebowl is very small and full of cracks.
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The truth had prevail. For those who had taken sides even before finding out more details, please ask yourself if you have been fair. It appear that someone had thought that using religious would help him personally. In the end, this incident must have done more harm than good to the religion instead.
I'm sure we can find this sort of people in every religion and this just happened that this has been publicised (by their own doing). These people's action normally has nothing to do with the religion itelf as it is more of the person's integrity that is the problem.
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Although it appears as if that the originator of the present thread has mended his way, in actuality, this is not so: if you go to www.krsnamandir.org you will find that he has not changed his ways and attitude. Right above the stock apology (which is in a timid small casing) you will see a large announcement in red that proclaims a victory for the NSman who had been disobedient.
Tattva Vit Das has also posted elsewhere on the net on 26.7.2009 that the media had perverted the truth of the NSman's drama. (See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Indian-Malaysian/message/35441). What temerity!
The government should seriously look at Tattva Vit Das' and his temple's questional and dangerous conduct. They do not have any allegiance to Singapore, and her people. They seem to have their own exclusive agenda detrimental to the well-being of our society.
One thing that should disturb anyone's mind is the cult's origin in Singapore. In the 1970s, the Singapore government banned their founder, Prabhupada, who mixed freely with the Hippies in the US, and who preached a brand of religion/Hinduism, which the mainstream Hindus here and elsewhere did not approved of, from entering Singapore.
Sometime in the 80s, however, the cult, which is commonly called the 'Hare Krsnas', struck roots in Singapore. Sundar Gopal Das, the man who begot Madana Mohan (the NSman in the midst of the controversy) headed the cult.
Ever since, Sundar Gopal and his cult members have had been in constant clashes with the law enforcers. In 1988, for instance, under the leadership of Sundar Gopal, the cult did an outrageous act that angered the Hindus and Tamils in Singapore. The incident was mentioned in a White Paper that was submitted to the Parliament. Between 1988 and 2007, there were a number of complaints of various types against the cult.
In 2007, Sundar Gopal Das and his cult illegally occupied a place in Norris Road. The proprietor sought the court's help, and an Eviction Order was issued against the cult. The man, as what he has done in his son's case now, went public about his perceived 'injustice', and posted his petition against the Singapore government and the judiciary on the net. That again caused much embarrassment to the judiciary, government and Singaporens.
And now, he got embroiled in yet another controvery.
It is about time that the government looked into this cult, which is predominantly made up of foreigners: Tattva Vit Das is an Indian national, Govardan and Ragupathy are Malaysians. (Perhaps, in the recent months, they may have gotten their PR, I am not sure of this). But the point to note is, except Sundar Gopal Das, none of these men have served NS, and none has any avowed allegiance to Singapore. And the irony is, of all, it is these foreigners who have stirred up so much trouble about our national service.
If you need more information about Sundar Gopal, please visit Knowledgerush: http://knowledgerush.com/kr/jsp/db/board.jsp?id=50141#board_top
Seriously, the authorities must look into all the troubles that they have caused us, and remove them from us.
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Originally posted by Paradiselost:
Although it appears as if that the originator of the present thread has mended his way, in actuality, this is not so: if you go to www.krsnamandir.org you will find that he has not changed his ways and attitude. Right above the stock apology (which is in a timid small casing) you will see a large announcement in red that proclaims a victory for the NSman who had been disobedient.
Tattva Vit Das has also posted elsewhere on the net on 26.7.2009 that the media had perverted the truth of the NSman's drama. (See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Indian-Malaysian/message/35441). What temerity!
The government should seriously look at Tattva Vit Das' and his temple's questional and dangerous conduct. They do not have any allegiance to Singapore, and her people. They seem to have their own exclusive agenda detrimental to the well-being of our society.
One thing that should disturb anyone's mind is the cult's origin in Singapore. In the 1970s, the Singapore government banned their founder, Prabhupada, who mixed freely with the Hippies in the US, and who preached a brand of religion/Hinduism, which the mainstream Hindus here and elsewhere did not approved of, from entering Singapore.
Sometime in the 80s, however, the cult, which is commonly called the 'Hare Krsnas', struck roots in Singapore. Sundar Gopal Das, the man who begot Madana Mohan (the NSman in the midst of the controversy) headed the cult.
Ever since, Sundar Gopal and his cult members have had been in constant clashes with the law enforcers. In 1988, for instance, under the leadership of Sundar Gopal, the cult did an outrageous act that angered the Hindus and Tamils in Singapore. The incident was mentioned in a White Paper that was submitted to the Parliament. Between 1988 and 2007, there were a number of complaints of various types against the cult.
In 2007, Sundar Gopal Das and his cult illegally occupied a place in Norris Road. The proprietor sought the court's help, and an Eviction Order was issued against the cult. The man, as what he has done in his son's case now, went public about his perceived 'injustice', and posted his petition against the Singapore government and the judiciary on the net. That again caused much embarrassment to the judiciary, government and Singaporens.
And now, he got embroiled in yet another controvery.
It is about time that the government looked into this cult, which is predominantly made up of foreigners: Tattva Vit Das is an Indian national, Govardan and Ragupathy are Malaysians. (Perhaps, in the recent months, they may have gotten their PR, I am not sure of this). But the point to note is, except Sundar Gopal Das, none of these men have served NS, and none has any avowed allegiance to Singapore. And the irony is, of all, it is these foreigners who have stirred up so much trouble about our national service.
If you need more information about Sundar Gopal, please visit Knowledgerush: http://knowledgerush.com/kr/jsp/db/board.jsp?id=50141#board_top
Seriously, the authorities must look into all the troubles that they have caused us, and remove them from us.
You know...if i ever believed in the government's cyber agents i would be very tempted to think this is one.
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
You know...if i ever believed in the government's cyber agents i would be very tempted to think this is one.
Elections coming.
A lot of local forums will see new members popping up now and then to tell you what is right and what is wrong.
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Originally posted by charlize:
Elections coming.
A lot of local forums will see new members popping up now and then to tell you what is right and what is wrong.
and fully paid too. -
why the singapore hindu society dont recognize his type of hindu?
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Originally posted by PedoBear:
why the singapore hindu society dont recognize his type of hindu?
Because they practise things which are different from the "mainstream"?
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Originally posted by Forbiddensinner:
Because they practise things which are different from the "mainstream"?
and so it is not recognized by the SAF and he got treated like shit? -
Originally posted by Short Ninja:
and so it is not recognized by the SAF and he got treated like shit?If your own group does not even recognise you, you can't expect those out of your group to recognise you, can you?