Originally posted by -StarDust-:I wanna master teochew.
you will be surprised how far did Teochew predate into chinese history......
Originally posted by Arapahoe:
you will be surprised how far did Teochew predate into chinese history......
yeah
but as the language does not carry its own written form. It will dies out in another 100 years.
You know those from shantou, guangzhou etc where our forefathers came from, they don't carry that typical heavy beijing accent. They speak pretty much like us and I suspect the singlish accent has its roots from there.
In the past, I can still hear secondary sch students speaking hokkien to each other. Well I don't mean the ah bengs but normal students. Nowadays, I don't hear it anymore.
the young like me ah lian and ah bengs today only know how to scold bad words in hokkien even without knowing it meaning
Originally posted by Arapahoe:i am talking about chinese not taking up the chinese language and speaking dialects.
And i am saying you have to get pass the issued of RACE when you talk about language...? don't just learned the language because you identified yourself as a Race and coheres to learn Mandarin because of identity. But Rather where you are located.And in Singapore what is relevant There will be folks that find Mandarin is what they value ...... by all means. But For those who assume English or other language is what they choose to focus that should be a CHOICE.
You Speak the language where you grew up. There are 4 basic races infact they are all 4 languages are relevant.
Immigration has resulted in diverse cultural mingle together its is hard to contain yourself with monolitics language and cultures.
In South America there are 3rd generation of koreans, Chinese that grew up and speak spanish, In Europes there are Asian, Chinese that are born and grew up in Europes.
There are foreigners who speak fluent mandarin......who had remain in Asia for a long time that they reside here in Asia.
Like i say open up your mind and go beyond the subject of RACE is equal to language....
To ADD:
What about mixed Races.......?
in short.
whats a japanese who cant speak japanese?
whats a malay who cant speak malay?
whats a french who cant speak french?
whats a chinese who cant speak chinese?
we need one common language to communicate. incidentally its english in singapore. so we learn it!!
but what about your 'race language'? forget it as it is too troublesome? you owe it to yourself and your ancestors. is that too much to ask? if it is then you can ignore whatever i have said. to each his own!!!
many indo chinese cannot speak mandarin or dialects but they retain chinese characteristics.
Originally posted by Rock^Star:many indo chinese cannot speak mandarin or dialects but they retain chinese characteristics.
the english language and their cultures are enroaching into our way of life.
look around you.
how long do you think our chinese characteristics will last?
in indonesia, they still address seniors by "ko" (elder brother) or "ce" (elder sister), "ah yi" (auntie). They also say "kam xia" (thank you in hokkien). Other than that, those who can speak mandarin are those in Sumatra, Sulawesi, Borneo etc. Those in Java cannot.
Originally posted by dragg:the english language and their cultures are enroaching into our way of life.
look around you.
how long do you think our chinese characteristics will last?
well sgporeans are alrdy not very chinese since many years ago. We embrace the american culture, talk like them. Some chinese are even ashamed to speak dialect or chinese. When we call our uncles and aunties, very few do it by the traditional way. Most would just simply call "uncle" and "auntie" for convenience's sake.
Originally posted by dragg:in short.
whats a japanese who cant speak japanese?
whats a malay who cant speak malay?
whats a french who cant speak french?
whats a chinese who cant speak chinese?
we need one common language to communicate. incidentally its english in singapore. so we learn it!!
but what about your 'race language'? forget it as it is too troublesome? you owe it to yourself and your ancestors. is that too much to ask? if it is then you can ignore whatever i have said. to each his own!!!
There is only one Universal language and that is "Mathematics".
We owe it to ourselves.....yes...... Look around you and your fellow singaporean there are plenty of mixed married between Singaporean with European, Australian, Americans, Indians.....So how would you defined these demographics groups....
30 years from now what would their children speak??? You can only provide Choices and Options. but not enforce social engineering.
personnally i know of a Sing couple having kids abroad....the kids first language is dialect Second language is spanish and third is English.
I also known of Chinese Portugal who speak fluent portugese and English and not Mandarin.
At the end of the day it is the individual that decide. You can't change this global human movement we are in a mids of changing environment. What language gets to stay and leave at the end of the day it depend on human survivor and mobility.
Example...At the end of the Day Teochew language will only be found in Musem as it live out its usefulness.....you can learn the language but it is a dead language just like a 486 computer.
Originally posted by Arapahoe:There is only one Universal language and that is "Mathematics".
We owe it to ourselves.....yes...... Look around you and your fellow singaporean there are plenty of mixed married between Singaporean with European, Australian, Americans, Indians.....So how would you defined these demographics groups....
30 years from now what would their children speak??? You can only provide Choices and Options. but not enforce social engineering.
personnally i know of a Sing couple having kids abroad....the kids first language is dialect Second language is spanish and third is English.
I also known of Chinese Portugal who speak fluent portugese and English and not Mandarin.
At the end of the day it is the individual that decide. You can't change this global human movement we are in a mids of changing environment. What language gets to stay and leave at the end of the day it depend on human survivor and mobility.
Example...At the end of the Day Teochew language will only be found in Musem as it live out its usefulness.....you can learn the language but it is a dead language just like a 486 computer.
you are a pragmatist right? to you everything is replaceable, including one's roots and identity?
to me, it isnt!!!
i am already 45. i hope i wont live to see the day the chinese language goes into the museum. in fact i am quite sure i wont. there are millions and millions of chinese in china speaking dialects and mandarin. it would really take a farking big effort to make it go into obscurity.
as for those mixed marriages you mentioned i dont have an answer and i dont care. only they know what race their children are. i am a chinese and i care only about my people.
wah dragg, relax la....dialects wun die off la.....at least not in sg. You will be sure in China, it's very much alive. In Singapore, I give it another 100 years. Sometimes, it can't be helped. It's just that nowadays, a hokkien will marry a cantonese or whatever combinations. So lydat when the kids come out, they listen to the parents speak what? English or your mother's tongue (tongue in cheek!) of course.
Originally posted by Rock^Star:wah dragg, relax la....dialects wun die off la.....at least not in sg. You will be sure in China, it's very much alive. In Singapore, I give it another 100 years. Sometimes, it can't be helped. It's just that nowadays, a hokkien will marry a cantonese or whatever combinations. So lydat when the kids come out, they listen to the parents speak what? English or your mother's tongue (tongue in cheek!) of course.
i am sure its not difficult to learn both. i did!! my father was a hokkien and my mum a cantonese. i can speak both dialects well. i can speak english, chinese and japanese.
i am sure the new generation is much smarter than people during my time. i have nothing against learning or speaking other languages. we must resist the tide of dropping dialects and mandarin because it make us who we are.
Originally posted by dragg:you are a pragmatist right? to you everything is replaceable, including one's roots and identity?
to me, it isnt!!!
i am already 45. i hope i wont live to see the day the chinese language goes into the museum. in fact i am quite sure i wont. there are millions and millions of chinese in china speaking dialects and mandarin. it would really take a farking big effort to make it go into obscurity.
as for those mixed marriages you mentioned i dont have an answer and i dont care. only they know what race their children are. i am a chinese and i care only about my people.
To who and whom are "Your" people.....By color and Race...that is where your central arguments lies.
I have known foreigners stayed in Singapore for over 26 years and speak fluent "Mandarin" are they "your" people???
Mandarin had already adopted roman alphabet as Ping Ying back in the late 70s. The trend already set in motion.
Look at todays SMS text messages :
younger generation already breaking new ground in evolving language by using Numeric to sound off as mandarin. How long do you think calligraphy of han characters will last?
You want to keep "Mandarin" Alive....is to allow Choices and Options available for those interested to learn not by RACE but BY any individual who is interested.
Originally posted by dragg:i am sure its not difficult to learn both. i did!! my father was a hokkien and my mum a cantonese. i can speak both dialects well. i can speak english, chinese and japanese.
i am sure the new generation is much smarter than people during my time. i have nothing against learning or speaking other languages. we must resist the tide of dropping dialects and mandarin because it make us who we are.
well not all families share the same dynamics. why speak dialects when the dad and mum can speak english and chinese? You might resist the tide.....but I'm sure it will overwhelm you lol
Originally posted by Arapahoe:To who and whom are "Your" people.....By color and Race...that is where your central arguments lies.
I have known foreigners stayed in Singapore for over 26 years and speak fluent "Mandarin" are they "your" people???
Mandarin had already adopted roman alphabet as Ping Ying back in the late 70s. The trend already set in motion.
Look at todays SMS text messages :
younger generation already breaking new ground in evolving language by using Numeric to sound off as mandarin. How long do you think calligraphy of han characters will last?
You want to keep "Mandarin" Alive....is to allow Choices and Options available for those interested to learn not by RACE but BY any individual who is interested.
why do you keep telling me about foreigners? why do i care if foreigners (unless chinese) can speak chinese or not? every race should learn their own language.
which part of this do you not understand?
chinese learn mandarin. malay learn melayu. japanese learn nihongo.
on top of that we learn english, the working language in singapore.
Originally posted by Rock^Star:well not all families share the same dynamics. why speak dialects when the dad and mum can speak english and chinese? You might resist the tide.....but I'm sure it will overwhelm you lol
it would be ideal if we can keep our dialects and mandarin as well.
if its too much drop the dialects but keep the language. english, for working reasons and chinese for your roots.
is that not possible? i notice there are more and more people not even bothering to try. they just drop mandarin outright and focus on english. student nowadays can take so many subjects at one go but cant cope with 2 languages?
�是没能力 而是没那个心��
not true la....i took higher chinese back then but dropped it cos i couldnt cope with my other 8 subjects. Uncle at 45 years old, your education system is a bygone era. Even my time 15 years is now prehistoric. Children have a very very tough education system today.
Originally posted by Rock^Star:not true la....i took higher chinese back then but dropped it cos i couldnt cope with my other 8 subjects. Uncle at 45 years old, your education system is a bygone era. Even my time 15 years is now prehistoric. Children have a very very tough education system today.
ya, that's why i stop studying, singaporeans grown old very fast...
Originally posted by Rock^Star:wah dragg, relax la....dialects wun die off la.....at least not in sg. You will be sure in China, it's very much alive. In Singapore, I give it another 100 years. Sometimes, it can't be helped. It's just that nowadays, a hokkien will marry a cantonese or whatever combinations. So lydat when the kids come out, they listen to the parents speak what? English or your mother's tongue (tongue in cheek!) of course.
it's a sad thing but a fact :
although many Chinese in China (when asked by me) says that "Yes, we still pretty much speak dialects back at home - China"
it is observed through scholarly studies by linguists that certain number of major dialects in China are also in the process of dying, by way of erosion of Standard Mandarin vocabulary and changes in phonology by way of Mandarin influence
usual man-on-the-street won't notice this change, that's why they still claim dialects are very pretty much alive
some examples:
Lee Kuan Yew seriously messed up all the non english languages in Singapore.
More than 40 years after indepedence still can't resolve the problem of language.
That bastard baba Lee Kuan Yew wants to wipe out dialects in Singapore.
Such an evil bastard.
Originally posted by dragg:we need one common language to communicate. incidentally its english in singapore. so we learn it!!
It's english because the people who won the battle over dominant language were english speakers and they wanted to protect their interests.
If mandarin was the dominant language and Singapore becomes a Taiwan, those english speaking elite like Lee Kuan Yew, Goh Keng Swee, Toh Chin Chye etc, their influence and power in society would weaken.
If you look at the population stats in 1960s, it was completely illogical to use english as common language because chinese population was about 75%.
So people like Lee Kuan Yew chose to sacrifice the interests of the 75% and make use of a pretext such as "common language" to serve his own interests.
This appears again and again in Lee Kuan Yew's career - always for his own interests, but he would use some propaganda to cover up his intent.
It's high time for Singaporeans, especially chinese Singaporeans to wake up to the true character of Lee Kuan Yew - he is a political dirty rat.
Originally posted by angel7030:
in ROC, hokkien is a language, not dialect. In singapore, you term dialect as something you can speak but cannot write or read, which is not true, we can read chinese character and pronoun it in hokkien, so are beijing and shanghai dialect, their opera is a dialect, but they term it as a unique language.Singapore govt had differentiated languages in dialect, which in real, there is no dialects in this world. The honghong can read chinese in cantonese, write it and study it too...so is cantonese a dialect....No, the movie stars are reading chinese script in cantonese...Omg!
I have a fun time reading my chinese textbooks in cantonese, hokkien, teochew and khek during lesson times as I have already known all the chinese characters in the chinese textbooks and my chinese teacher smiles in amusement when she hears me reading the chinese characters in different dialects.
Originally posted by Devil7030:I have a fun time reading my chinese textbooks in cantonese, hokkien, teochew and khek during lesson times as I have already known all the chinese characters in the chinese textbooks and my chinese teacher smiles in amusement when she hears me reading the chinese characters in different dialects.
If i am not wrong, according to my grandma here, she told me, last time singapore radio or what reddifussion channel also got newsreader and story tellers reading chinese text and speak out dialect, nice pure dialect, like Hokkien, teochew, cantonese, Hakka etc etc...therefore, my grandma said, actually all these are not dialects, but the govt make it or call it as dialects because they dun want to have gang and a separated society like teochew clan, hokkien clan and so on, she miss those years of listening to those story tellers..and i really feel pity for my young singaporean friends who are deprive of their original culture and a total lost of identity.