Is the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki Acceptable ?
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the politics of ethics, salvation and redemption....evil upon evil...
sometimes u need to take sides and cut short greater pain to more people if the wars are not stopped....when all negotiations, concessions have been sought to no avail...
a salute to resistance fighters....who risked their own individual lives (as well as that of their own families) for the greater good...resorting to evil means to fight its very own evil out ....what choice do humans have? what other exits?
there will be some who believe that one day miracles would dawn upon our humanity..that its very own evil would dissipate ...and to this day, its our simple human face that vanishes...
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Originally posted by dragg:
it wasnt true.
the use of atomic bomb was to warn russia. not to force japan to surrender.
i thot they incident is after world war 2?
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no japan no singapore. no japan no philipines and other sea countries. atomic bomb is a must. it shows how power u are. if not people just wont scare of u. usa threw the bomb first, now she is the leader of the world. if ussr threw the hydrogen bomb b4 usa's atomic bomb. ussr will be our boss now.
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This is another hero that i salute, respect, honour and glorify.
Lt. Adnan Saidi
http://ltadnan.blogspot.com/2010/08/biography-of-leftenan-adnan-d.html
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.facebook.com/Lt.Adnan?sk=wall&filter=2
Adnan's gruesome death
Adnan's fierce resistance and refusal to surrender even after being mortally wounded proved damaging to his ending at Japanese hands. Not satisfied with capturing him, the Japanese, angered over the casualties they suffered, dragged Adnan and hung him by his legs to a tree and repeatedly bayoneted him. The brutal torture, which also included repeatedly slitting his throat and leaving his mutilated body to hang and some said eventually burning it, was witnessed by one survivor of the Opium Hill battle, Corporal Yaakob. He escaped death by laying motionless amongst the layer of dead bodies.
In his passing, Adnan's undying valour exemplified his strong belief in the Malay motto: "Biar putih tulang, jangan putih mata" - death before dishonour. Adnan's body was never found. The Japanese continued to hunt down the rest of his family. To foil their attempts, Adnan's brother gave away his belongings and photographs. No one wanted or dared to keep Adnan's belongings for fear of being killed by the Japanese. Today, the fiery spirit of Adnan and his men is remembered by a war memorial plaque in Kent Ridge Park erected in their honour, and the etching on the main memorial column wall of the Kranji War Cemetery No. 385 bearing the words "Lt. Adnan Saidi". A telemovie about his life and the battle at Opium Hill, titled Bukit Candu, was also made.http://infopedia.nl.sg/articles/SIP_456_2005-01-18.html
This is a Malay name; the name Saidi is a patronymic, not a family name, and the person should be referred to by the given name, Adnan.Adnan bin Saidi, (1915 - 14 February 1942), was a Malayan soldier of the 1st Infantry Brigade which fought the Japanese in the Battle of Singapore. He is regarded by Malaysians and Singaporeans today as a hero for his actions on Bukit Chandu.
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Originally posted by Disman:
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Originally posted by Bus&Soccer l0v3r (VO3x 1):
i thot they incident is after world war 2?
US was heavily bombing japan then. it is only a matter of time the japanese surrendered.
but the americans were worried the russians may seek the opportunity to further their ambitions.
civilians were sacrificed as usual in all wars.
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Originally posted by 韩飞官:
no japan no singapore. no japan no philipines and other sea countries. atomic bomb is a must. it shows how power u are. if not people just wont scare of u. usa threw the bomb first, now she is the leader of the world. if ussr threw the hydrogen bomb b4 usa's atomic bomb. ussr will be our boss now.
Quite true . some points you got there . say if that incident didnt happen countries like china or the phillipines wont have their principal and it wont mold them to what they are today :)another way to see it is . if it didnt happened . the countries might have developed into a better ones than what they are today . possible too .
Cheers !
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Don't be daft.
Originally posted by Mel.greywolf:1. Why the bomb were not use on German soil?
V-E Day was 8/5/45, the first test at Trinity was 16/7/45 - examine THAT closely and do the math.
Originally posted by Mel.greywolf:2. Why the US need to bomb twice? (technically, it is to test both both of different design).
The Nips didn't listen too good after the first bomb, did they?
Originally posted by Mel.greywolf:3. Why can't US show the Japanese government the video of the Bomb effect via video? Will that not scare the s$@t out of them?It took two bombs for them to wake up, smell the coffee and acknowledge that they were seriously outgunned - do you honestly think sending them a DVD would have had them shitting their pants?! Get real.
Originally posted by Mel.greywolf:(by the way, those pilot who bomb Japan went crazy, when they realised how many people they have killed).Bollocks. Tibbetts repeatedly defended the bombings in interviews over six decades, and Sweeney published a book to the same effect. Stop making shit up.
Originally posted by Mel.greywolf:Anyway, history are almost always written by victor.And regularly read by those with less than a passing acquaintance with the facts.
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nobody mentioned Pearl Harbour......even hospitals were not spared the japanese bombs......they woke a sleeping giant!
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Originally posted by BaT.TleCRY:
To me, the bombing was outrightly unacceptable.
The atomic bomb is a weapon capable of absolute annihilation. Practically noone was left unharmed, not to mention most casualties are innocent civilians.
Claims that the atomic bombing was instrumental to end the war are simply untenable. The Japanese was fighting a losing battle then and a surrender or defeat was inevitable. In fact, the decision of using the atomic bomb was tainted with a myriad of vested interests - such as "Testing the atomic bomb", "A display of superiority towards the Soviets" etc.
Not that i am overlooking the atrocities the Japanese had committed. In fact, I am still outraged by their nefarious acts towards the Chinese. However, to conveniently claim that the bombing as an "ethical justification" and a "revenge" is simply demeaning ourselves to the level of Japanese who abused violence to attain satisfaction, and therein is akin to a slap on our cheeks.
Hope that my post will provide some food for thought for you guys ^_^
Face the fact - US although is wining , they lose enough - as they got closer to japan - soldiers are fighting hand to hand - really tough fight.
How many more soldiers and civilians are to die if the atomic bomb are not dropped. If your sons or your father - that is fighting the japan inch by inch - you say drop that damn bomb and bring very one back for christmas !!! -
it is my opinion that Hiroshima and Nagasaki need to be atomic bombed every year to remind the japanese not to be such assholes
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It isnt acceptable, but is needed to end the war.
I pity the innocent civilians, but they got to blame their prince more for being so ambitious, then the americans who bombed them.
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One because of one person, the Jap Emperor, same like here, all because of One man, LKY
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The american had no choice.
They is the fastest way to end the war.
Innocent people has to die because of the fucked up japanese rulers.
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The forgotton heros of Singapore:
Dalforce
Dalforce, or the Singapore Overseas Chinese Anti-Japanese Volunteer Army (星�义勇军; Xinghua Yi Yong Jun) was an irregular forces/guerrillaunit within the British Straits Settlements Volunteer Force duringWorld War II. Its members were recruited among the ethnic Chinesepeople of Singapore. It was created on 25 December 1941 by Lieutenant Colonel John Dalley of the Federated Malay States Police Force. The unit was known to the British colonial administration as Dalforce, after its chief instructor and commanding officer, John Dalley, whereas the Chinese in Singapore only knew it as the Singapore Overseas Chinese Anti-Japanese Volunteer Army. This formation took part in theBattle of Singapore and some members conducted a guerrilla campaign against Japanese forces during the Japanese occupation.
The British noted how ferociously the Chinese volunteers in Dalforce fought, earning them the nickname Dalley's Desperadoes.
Contents
[hide][edit]Origins
Dalley had suggested creating a guerrilla network in 1940, but it was not until about a year later, when the Japanese invasion was imminent, did it become apparent that the official recruitment of the local Chinese against the Japanese was essential. The British Government relented and on 25 December 1941, Dalforce was officially established, ignoring the fact that the existing Singapore Overseas Chinese Anti-Japanese Volunteer Army had been in existence under Chinese leadership since at least 1939. John Dalley, together with his fellow British officers, began training in Johorein mid-January 1942 with a force of 200 men. By the time the Japanese invaded, Dalforce numbered 4,000 resistance fighters.
Due to the divided leadership between the Communist Chinese and the Kuomintang, the army was divided into two sections. One is the Singapore Overseas Chinese Volunteer Army, which was mainly Communist and under direct command of Lieutenant-Colonel Dalley, and the smallerGuomindang Overseas Chinese Guard Force under the command of Chinese Nationalist Major Hu Tie Jun. Both sections comprised a total strength not exceeding 1,500 men, and the Overseas Chinese Guard Force was also trained by British officers. Ian Morrison, the Malayan correspondent for The Times in 1942, also noted that they were “trained, and placed in formations according to their political sympathies. There was one school where the Kuomintang adherents were trained, another where the Communists were trained.”[1]
[edit]Development
Dalforce was not issued uniforms worn by Commonwealth troops. Instead, they had to wear tailoredclothing and bandanas to preventfriendly fire. A few men tied a piece of red cloth to their right arms and a yellow one around their heads to reflect the unity of the Overseas Chinese with the Republic of Chinaand Chinese traditions.[1]
Most were issued Lee Enfield No.I Mk.III rifles, bayonets and about 7-20 bullets each for those in the Communist wing and 24 bullets for those in the Chinese Nationalist wing. Only a small number wielded grenades and Bren light machine guns. Others had to carry weapons used for hunting animals, such as sporting rifles and parangs. Military training lasted up until the Japanese invaded Singapore. Female members were given the responsibility of simple tasks like first aid, cooking, relaying messages and other menial tasks.
The British actually intended to fully equip the troops in preparation for the invasion. This became impossible when the liner SS Empress of Asia, which carried the vital supplies for the men, was sunk by Japanese aircraft while on its way to Singapore from Bombay. According to officer Frank Brewer, the standard issue for each soldier would have been a combat shotgun, seven rounds of ammunition and two grenades.
“ There weren’t enough ordinary rifles to be handed out to them. I know one company had as many as three different types of sporting guns, this made it very difficult to try and teach [the men] how these things operate in a very short time. — Frank Brewer[1] ” Training was also conducted at the SOE 101 Special Training School in Singapore, to prepare another unit of local Chinese for jungle warfare in Malaya in December 1941. But because it was no longer possible to deploy them to Malaya, many were incorporated into Dalforce.[1]
[edit]Disposition of companies
Dalforce had a total of five companies in Singapore, each containing about a hundred troops:
- 1) Company stationed at Jurong 18th Milestone.
- 2) Company attached to the 2/20 Battalion, Australian 22nd Brigade at Sarimbun beach.
- 3) Company at Causeway Sector.
- 4) Company at area between Serangoon River and Pasir Ris (Also referred to as the company at Hougang).
- 5) Overseas Chinese Guard Platoon stationed in Kranji.
[edit]Combat History
Dalforce volunteers were deployed to the frontline on 5 February. They fought at Sarimbun Beach,Bukit Timah, as well as the Woodlands and Kranji areas. They were mostly used to patrolmangrove swamps where enemy landings might be made. A Dalforce unit was also attached to the 1st Malaya Infantry Brigade which took part in the Battle of Pasir Panjang.
Company No. 1, stationed at the end of Jurong Road was involved in action even before the invasion, repulsing two waves of Japanese patrol boats. In the first incident, the patrol boats retreated after taking fire. On the next day, the night of 6 February 1942, the company exchanged fire with about thirty Japanese soldiers, but was also involved in friendly fire with the 44th Indian Brigade while both were retreating along the lower areas of the Jurong river.
Company No. 2's first military engagement also occurred on the night of 6 February 1942. The company’s first and second platoons were able to repulse an approaching group of Japanese rubber boats (each carrying one soldier), sinking three out of five of the rafts. They later returned with motorized rubber rafts, but were discovered and attacked by both the Australians and Dalforce, and were forced to retreat. Over sixty men (out of about 150) from the company managed to survive the initial Japanese landings on the night of 8 February by retreating down Lim Chu Kang Road and then swimming across the tributaries of the Kranji river to make it toChoa Chu Kang Road.
Madam Cheng Seang Ho, nicknamed the legendary Passionaria of Malaya (after the passionariaof the Spanish Civil War), fought the Japanese at Bukit Timah together with her husband. Both were over 60 years of age when they volunteered, making their last stand at Bukit Timah heights exchanging fire with the Japanese from behind trees. Madam Cheng and her husband’s heroics at Bukit Timah earned them a certificate of recognition in 1948, signed by Lieutenant-Colonel Dalley himself.[1] Madam Cheng's husband was later captured and subsequently executed by the Kempeitai.[2]
The unit suffered severe casualties due to lack of training, equipment and armament. The Japanese despised Dalforce bitterly, deciding to use them as an excuse for their treatment of the Chinese population, although this behaviour was instigated by the Kempeitai rather than by Lieutenant-General Tomoyuki Yamashita.
[edit]End of Dalforce
On 13 February 1942, two days before General Arthur Percival's surrender of Singapore, Dalley assembled Dalforce troops at Kim Yam Road Headquarters and ordered them to disband. The surviving members were each paid ten Straits dollars for their services.[3]
Dalforce is estimated to have suffered 300 casualties, of which 134 known killed were compiled by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission in 1956. Many men and women would be captured, tortured and executed in the Sook Ching massacre for their involvement in Dalforce. Quite a number of veterans were able to escape to India after Singapore fell. Others fled into the jungles and joined up with the Malayan Peoples' Anti-Japanese Army during the occupation.
After the war, Lieutenant-General Arthur Percival, who was General Officer Commanding Malaya, originally disparaged the Chinese community in his dispatches for not assisting the British enough during the invasion. He later changed his opinion in his book, The War in Malaya, after his dispatches circulated in Singapore, causing an outcry among the local Chinese. He praised Dalforce, but still maintained that it had little impact in the battle.[1]
John Dalley was one of several key personnel who was ordered to be evacuated from Singapore before its capitulation.[4] He boarded a forty-foot Royal Navy motor launch known as the Mary Rose at Keppel Harbour, where it would sail to Palembang, Sumatra.[4] The Mary Rose, commanded by veteran naval officer Captain George Mulock DSO, RN left Singapore a little before midnight on 14th February. However, they were caught by two Japanese patrol vessels and were forced to surrender.[4] Dalley survived the war, and submitted a positive report on the unit in 1945-46.[1]
[edit]Media
Dalforce has appeared in the SBC 1984 television series The Awakening and the MediaCorp2001 drama, A War Diary.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
One because of one person, the Jap Emperor, same like here, all because of One man, LKY
I'll bite - how are the two even remotely comparable? even a simple top 5 list will do
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Originally posted by Nomad80:
I'll bite - how are the two even remotely comparable? even a simple top 5 list will do
The emperor japan attack and kill openly, our LKY did it silently and quietly, that is the different. -
Originally posted by Dalforce 25:
The forgotton heros of Singapore:
Dalforce
Dalforce, or the Singapore Overseas Chinese Anti-Japanese Volunteer Army (星�义勇军; Xinghua Yi Yong Jun) was an irregular forces/guerrillaunit within the British Straits Settlements Volunteer Force duringWorld War II. Its members were recruited among the ethnic Chinesepeople of Singapore. It was created on 25 December 1941 by Lieutenant Colonel John Dalley of the Federated Malay States Police Force. The unit was known to the British colonial administration as Dalforce, after its chief instructor and commanding officer, John Dalley, whereas the Chinese in Singapore only knew it as the Singapore Overseas Chinese Anti-Japanese Volunteer Army. This formation took part in theBattle of Singapore and some members conducted a guerrilla campaign against Japanese forces during the Japanese occupation.
The British noted how ferociously the Chinese volunteers in Dalforce fought, earning them the nickname Dalley's Desperadoes.
Contents
[hide][edit]Origins
Dalley had suggested creating a guerrilla network in 1940, but it was not until about a year later, when the Japanese invasion was imminent, did it become apparent that the official recruitment of the local Chinese against the Japanese was essential. The British Government relented and on 25 December 1941, Dalforce was officially established, ignoring the fact that the existing Singapore Overseas Chinese Anti-Japanese Volunteer Army had been in existence under Chinese leadership since at least 1939. John Dalley, together with his fellow British officers, began training in Johorein mid-January 1942 with a force of 200 men. By the time the Japanese invaded, Dalforce numbered 4,000 resistance fighters.
Due to the divided leadership between the Communist Chinese and the Kuomintang, the army was divided into two sections. One is the Singapore Overseas Chinese Volunteer Army, which was mainly Communist and under direct command of Lieutenant-Colonel Dalley, and the smallerGuomindang Overseas Chinese Guard Force under the command of Chinese Nationalist Major Hu Tie Jun. Both sections comprised a total strength not exceeding 1,500 men, and the Overseas Chinese Guard Force was also trained by British officers. Ian Morrison, the Malayan correspondent for The Times in 1942, also noted that they were “trained, and placed in formations according to their political sympathies. There was one school where the Kuomintang adherents were trained, another where the Communists were trained.”[1]
[edit]Development
The SS Empress of Asia ablaze after being attacked by Japanese aircraft. A significant part of the vital military equipment and other supplies which sank with theEmpress were said to have been intended for the ill-equipped Dalforce fighters.
Dalforce was not issued uniforms worn by Commonwealth troops. Instead, they had to wear tailoredclothing and bandanas to preventfriendly fire. A few men tied a piece of red cloth to their right arms and a yellow one around their heads to reflect the unity of the Overseas Chinese with the Republic of Chinaand Chinese traditions.[1]
Most were issued Lee Enfield No.I Mk.III rifles, bayonets and about 7-20 bullets each for those in the Communist wing and 24 bullets for those in the Chinese Nationalist wing. Only a small number wielded grenades and Bren light machine guns. Others had to carry weapons used for hunting animals, such as sporting rifles and parangs. Military training lasted up until the Japanese invaded Singapore. Female members were given the responsibility of simple tasks like first aid, cooking, relaying messages and other menial tasks.
The British actually intended to fully equip the troops in preparation for the invasion. This became impossible when the liner SS Empress of Asia, which carried the vital supplies for the men, was sunk by Japanese aircraft while on its way to Singapore from Bombay. According to officer Frank Brewer, the standard issue for each soldier would have been a combat shotgun, seven rounds of ammunition and two grenades.
“ There weren’t enough ordinary rifles to be handed out to them. I know one company had as many as three different types of sporting guns, this made it very difficult to try and teach [the men] how these things operate in a very short time. — Frank Brewer[1] ”
Training was also conducted at the SOE 101 Special Training School in Singapore, to prepare another unit of local Chinese for jungle warfare in Malaya in December 1941. But because it was no longer possible to deploy them to Malaya, many were incorporated into Dalforce.[1]
[edit]Disposition of companies
Dalforce had a total of five companies in Singapore, each containing about a hundred troops:
- 1) Company stationed at Jurong 18th Milestone.
- 2) Company attached to the 2/20 Battalion, Australian 22nd Brigade at Sarimbun beach.
- 3) Company at Causeway Sector.
- 4) Company at area between Serangoon River and Pasir Ris (Also referred to as the company at Hougang).
- 5) Overseas Chinese Guard Platoon stationed in Kranji.
[edit]Combat History
Dalforce volunteers were deployed to the frontline on 5 February. They fought at Sarimbun Beach,Bukit Timah, as well as the Woodlands and Kranji areas. They were mostly used to patrolmangrove swamps where enemy landings might be made. A Dalforce unit was also attached to the 1st Malaya Infantry Brigade which took part in the Battle of Pasir Panjang.
Company No. 1, stationed at the end of Jurong Road was involved in action even before the invasion, repulsing two waves of Japanese patrol boats. In the first incident, the patrol boats retreated after taking fire. On the next day, the night of 6 February 1942, the company exchanged fire with about thirty Japanese soldiers, but was also involved in friendly fire with the 44th Indian Brigade while both were retreating along the lower areas of the Jurong river.
Company No. 2's first military engagement also occurred on the night of 6 February 1942. The company’s first and second platoons were able to repulse an approaching group of Japanese rubber boats (each carrying one soldier), sinking three out of five of the rafts. They later returned with motorized rubber rafts, but were discovered and attacked by both the Australians and Dalforce, and were forced to retreat. Over sixty men (out of about 150) from the company managed to survive the initial Japanese landings on the night of 8 February by retreating down Lim Chu Kang Road and then swimming across the tributaries of the Kranji river to make it toChoa Chu Kang Road.
Madam Cheng Seang Ho, nicknamed the legendary Passionaria of Malaya (after the passionariaof the Spanish Civil War), fought the Japanese at Bukit Timah together with her husband. Both were over 60 years of age when they volunteered, making their last stand at Bukit Timah heights exchanging fire with the Japanese from behind trees. Madam Cheng and her husband’s heroics at Bukit Timah earned them a certificate of recognition in 1948, signed by Lieutenant-Colonel Dalley himself.[1] Madam Cheng's husband was later captured and subsequently executed by the Kempeitai.[2]
The unit suffered severe casualties due to lack of training, equipment and armament. The Japanese despised Dalforce bitterly, deciding to use them as an excuse for their treatment of the Chinese population, although this behaviour was instigated by the Kempeitai rather than by Lieutenant-General Tomoyuki Yamashita.
[edit]End of Dalforce
On 13 February 1942, two days before General Arthur Percival's surrender of Singapore, Dalley assembled Dalforce troops at Kim Yam Road Headquarters and ordered them to disband. The surviving members were each paid ten Straits dollars for their services.[3]
Dalforce is estimated to have suffered 300 casualties, of which 134 known killed were compiled by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission in 1956. Many men and women would be captured, tortured and executed in the Sook Ching massacre for their involvement in Dalforce. Quite a number of veterans were able to escape to India after Singapore fell. Others fled into the jungles and joined up with the Malayan Peoples' Anti-Japanese Army during the occupation.
After the war, Lieutenant-General Arthur Percival, who was General Officer Commanding Malaya, originally disparaged the Chinese community in his dispatches for not assisting the British enough during the invasion. He later changed his opinion in his book, The War in Malaya, after his dispatches circulated in Singapore, causing an outcry among the local Chinese. He praised Dalforce, but still maintained that it had little impact in the battle.[1]
John Dalley was one of several key personnel who was ordered to be evacuated from Singapore before its capitulation.[4] He boarded a forty-foot Royal Navy motor launch known as the Mary Rose at Keppel Harbour, where it would sail to Palembang, Sumatra.[4] The Mary Rose, commanded by veteran naval officer Captain George Mulock DSO, RN left Singapore a little before midnight on 14th February. However, they were caught by two Japanese patrol vessels and were forced to surrender.[4] Dalley survived the war, and submitted a positive report on the unit in 1945-46.[1]
[edit]Media
Dalforce has appeared in the SBC 1984 television series The Awakening and the MediaCorp2001 drama, A War Diary.
Aiyo, uncle, why u bring the whole wikiencylopedia into sg forums? -
Atomic bomb useful la, later some Iwo Jima hide and ambush situation pops out in mainland Japan, war would comfirm drag on for damn long and casualties would be damn high.
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Of course not. Just like genocide and mass execution is not morally acceptable. But then again, they are in a war and what choice do a superpower like US have? They cant just stand there and let their pride be trampled on. They just have to retaliate in a spectacular albeit bloody way.... Still unacceptable
