Vietnamese Girl Friend Denied entry by Singapore ICA
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Firstly, why am I on this forum?
Well, I typed in 'denied entry to Singapore' in Google and found a thread here for a Thai girl friend who was denied entry, but this thread was closed so I though I would keep the discussion live as the world needs to know how the Republic of Singapore ICA operate. I rather suspect that this will not be allowed to continue as an open topic for long.
Our story.....Working at various locations around the world I travel a lot but have recently been working between Singapore and Kuala Lumpur. In March I met a very nice Vietnamese young widow in K.L.
We got along together and she has spent time with me in K.L. in between returning home to her work in Ha Noi.
Before anybody says it, no she is not innocent or whiter than white, under no illusions there but she is a good, kind, honest and trustworthy lady who has done her best to bring up her son alone in currently hard economic conditions in Vietnam. Not easy for her and she has my respect. She has also never had a problem in Singapore and only visited once with her husband as tourists 10 years or more ago.So near the end of July my work was taking me to Singapore. At the last minute she agreed to take more time off her work to come with me. My ticket was booked in advance by my employer and the flight was full apart from some extortionately priced first class tickets so I booked her on an Air Asia flight which arrived at just about the same time. In retrospect that was a mistake but of course it shouldn’t have made any difference. After all its the same person travelling.
Any way, I arrived at Singapore to find that my girl friend was entering on a different terminal in Changi and so a different immigration point. I cleared into terminal 2, Singapore and went round to terminal 1 to wait for her. Her phone would not work in Singapore but some kind gent lent her his to phone me. I told her the hotel name where we would be staying (after all we had expected to be together so she didn’t know the name) and told her that she was to give immigration my telephone number and tell them I was outside in case she had a problem. I did not expect that she would have but her English falls apart under stress.
Well she surely did have a problem. After waiting for around 40 minutes and seeing her bag through the glass going round and round the carousel alone I was getting worried.
I contacted the information desk where they said she was probably detained by immigration. They said that they could not go and find out or anything else but did give me the number to ring for the immigration desk inside. I rang it and rang it many many times over the next hour but it was never answered. Everywhere I went for assistance or information they said that they could not/would not help. There is no ICA representation outside of the arrivals and you cant get back in. A deliberate policy I suspect.
After about an hour I got a text message from Air Asia (who I had also been to see) saying that she was unable to enter Singapore and would be sent back to K.L. No explanation or reason given. Strange as nobody had tried to contact me, she had around 1000 dollars on her so was not destitute and had a ticket home in 7 days time. What else could there be wrong? I cant find anything on the ICA web site that says Vietnamese need anything else to enter Singapore. In fact there is an agreement between the two countries that states that Vietnamese citizens do not need Visas pre arranged and can take 30 days on arrival, no pre-conditions stated.
Next day I had a call from her from K.L. saying that she was back there. The authority in K.L. would not let her in as she had used her full 30 day visa and she would be sent back to Vietnam. If the Singapore ICA had listened they would have sent her to Vietnam in the first place as she had a ticket to Ha Noi. This of course was not used so the cost was lost.
Eventaully she got home, minus her suitcase which turned up 4 days later but with items missing, stolen from it. Thanks ICA!
I finished my job in Singapore and returned to the U.K. She went back to work in Ha Noi.
After 5 weeks apart I was back in K.L. and she came to see me. No problems with Malaysian immigration. They had the courtesy to ring me for confirmation of her status when she arrived.
I was to go again to Singapore for work so early September I contacted the ICA to ask why she had been previously refused entry. This is where it gets very hard. They are very slow to reply and do not provide full information or details. They refused to state why she had been denied entry and my girl does not know the reason either. Despite what they say she has not been given anything in writing to say why she was rejected. This it seams is common practice with the ICA. Don’t believe me? Then google ‘refused entry to Singapore’ and look at all the cases and most have the common theme of no apparent reason given, minimum investigation and snap decision by the immigration authorities.
I see the Indonesian government is threatening retaliatory action against Singapore citizens if this does not change.Communicating with the ICA is like hitting your head on a wall. No sense comes from the e-mails and there are no numbers to ring. If you do get through to the misnamed 'help desk' they just tell you to use e-mail on the ICA feedback and the direct telephone number for the appeals department I was eventually given was never answered just switched to an answering machine.
After about 12 days with several slow e-mail exchanges I was finally informed that I had to make an appeal using form 14 on the ICA web site. Why isn’t this information given to victims (I think this is the right word) of the ICA discrimination at the time of the denial? Any way I filled in the form for her, stuck on her picture, explained on my application that she couldn’t get a sponsor in Singapore as she did not know anybody there and sent it off by e-mail scan. Then nothing……..
A few days passed by so I sent an e-mail enquiring about the status as I was coming to Singapore soon. This time I had bought the ticket for her on the same flight as myself. I got a reply a day later saying that they would submit the application, it would take 4 to 8 weeks to process and they would post the reply!!!
Why didn’t they say that in the first place, is it some guarded secret like everything else?I postponed my travel but had to come to Singapore for work eventually. I couldn’t wait 4 to 8 weeks. We discussed it, my girl and I, and as I had the tickets for her any way, we decided to come to Singapore together and try. After all, I couldn’t leave her behind for weeks in K.L. and besides in 16 days I was to leave for the U.K. again. Tried once more contacting the ICA to tell them but couldn’t get through to anybody. Just that answering machine again.
Arrived in Singapore and sure enough I was given an entry visa and she was stopped. This time I was with her so managed to go to higher management in the airport ICA. They all said the same however. No she couldn’t enter until her ‘case’ had been reviewed and she was given a letter saying she could enter. Even though I explained her situation and assured the officer that she was staying with me in a booked hotel, had a ticket home and that I would take full responsibility for her they refused to budge or use any discretion. My girl has now been returned to K.L. and onwards to home. Fortunately I had booked a flexible ticket for her so her travel was easier. The only difference is that this time they have completed the refused entry form which she has been shown. Probably again because I was there so they actually had to follow their own procedures. What was on this form? Denied entry because: ‘Being ineligible for the issue of a pass under current immigration policies’. This is of course a totally meaningless phrase and still does not explain on what grounds this is based.
So what do I think of the ICA? You can imagine my opinion but politely; they are arrogant, inflexible, uncaring, blinkered jobs-worth’s with no understanding of the problems they cause unnecessarily to the people they decide to reject seemingly on a moments whim but I suspect more likely target driven, based on gender and nationality stereotyping with no real investigation and more importantly no transparency in their decision making. They do not provide a proper open appeal system with clear information to the person involved and hide behind unpublished and invisible ‘rules’ which cannot be challenged from outside as outsiders don’t know them. They are seemingly only accountable to themselves without proper government oversight. It would be interesting to compare the number of rejected Vietnamese citizens with say rejected Japanese citizens. I think that there might a slight bias against certain nationalities.
This is at odds with the current expressed views of high level government including the Prime Minister of Singapore who has urged closer economic, business and social ties with Vietnam and the move toI wonder how the Singapore people would feel if the same arbitrary ‘rules’ were applied to them when visiting other countries in the region.
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The ICA at Terminal 3 and 2... feels like there are no one on duty even at 2pm. No email. The contact centre person reads from the rule book like I haven't gone through them already before. Took quite a while to get something very simple done.
Once she is denied entry once, that's when all that bureaucraticbs comes in. You are right about Vietnam being member of ASEAN. However, in the end of the day.. it's just up to the on duty immigration officer's discretion. The lack of info on appeal too.. I dun think there is unfettered discretion though, but the process itself will just put off alot of people already. Unless you intend to really go all the way... in your expense.
I feel that low cost vs full service flights are like a filter.. on who they decide to let in to Sg.
"Being ineligible for the issue of a pass under cirrent immigration policies" xD gotta love ambiguity.
Well, I think due to the current political and social maneuverings, there are always those innocent ones that will fall through the policies not intended against them.
Maybe there is a "rejection quota". lol
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wha you so smart know ICA inside out. they should employ you. why own country got problem cannot saty arh?
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Sorry troublemaker but can you say it in english?
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hahah cannot cum in, cum in for what? walk around the island and keep you company and be your gf? hahahahha no need apologize to me, can;t get her in either hahahhahehehehehehhohohohoh
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Originally posted by troublemaker2005:
hahah cannot cum in, cum in for what? walk around the island and keep you company and be your gf? hahahahha no need apologize to me, can;t get her in either hahahhahehehehehehhohohohoh
haha jialat, spek engwish leh hahHA
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normally in any country where foreign girls come in alone it usually means they are hookers coming into werk in spore.
the usual operatus moderanti of hookers would be to come into spore alone.the usual nationals are from china,thailand,vietnam,russia and a few others.this would give problems from AIDS epidemic to sexually transmitted disease. To prove that these nationals are coming into spore not to werk as hookers,they need to have like $$$ to last for that duration while in spore or they are staying in a hotel and have enough cash to last in spore.
if they have none, most probably they would be selling their bodies which is not only bad but sad .unless u have the proof that u wont do that stuff to survive in spore its best u come with your old folks,husband,wife,friends,relatives or come from rich developed countries.
the above is also used to identify those folks coming into the UK as well.
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Calm down. You have no proof that the officers in Singapore stolen her belongings. And there is no smoke without fire…
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Kuali Please read the topic properly. I did not say that the ICA officers stole anything. I said that as a result of thier actions where she was seperated from her baggage by the ICA and the baggage was not properly tracked it was lost in the system. During its 'lost period' items were stolen over the 4 days missing. Could have been anywhere. Also please grow up, of course there is smoke without fire. Clearly you have never been accused unjustly or do you think such things do not happen?
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Armi 1) She wasnt alone. I was in the airport waiting. The ICA just didnt bother thier arses to check. 2) She had over 1000 sing dollars worth of malaysian currency on her. 3) Are you saying that any girl (I say girl but she is over 30) travelling alone is a prostitiute? If so you seriously need to adjust your attitude to women and sex. 4) You think if your sister say is coming to visit her father or her boyfriend in a foreign country then she should be deported back to singapore becuse the immigration feel like it? 5) If the ICA wants to prevent prostitution in Singapore then they should go to Orchard Towers any bar or Geylang to the government approved brothels and round up those girls. You should also know that in the early 70s Singapore was full of women selling themselves to keep thier families fed, clothed and sometimes even to put sisters through school. These were not foreigners but Singaporeans, most of wheome will be grandmothers by now, but I doubt they talk about it much.
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Does your girlfriend has any criminal records?
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Originally posted by Bob from Leeds:
Armi
1) She wasnt alone. I was in the airport waiting. The ICA just didnt bother thier arses to check.
2) She had over 1000 sing dollars worth of malaysian currency on her.
3) Are you saying that any girl (I say girl but she is over 30) travelling alone is a prostitiute? If so you seriously need to adjust your attitude to women and sex.
4) You think if your sister say is coming to visit her father or her boyfriend in a foreign country then she should be deported back to singapore becuse the immigration feel like it?
5) If the ICA wants to prevent prostitution in Singapore then they should go to Orchard Towers any bar or Geylang to the government approved brothels and round up those girls. You should also know that in the early 70s Singapore was full of women selling themselves to keep thier families fed, clothed and sometimes even to put sisters through school. These were not foreigners but Singaporeans, most of wheome will be grandmothers by now, but I doubt they talk about it much.
it's actually fairly common. happened to my friend. we came back from holiday and his gf got deported infront of our very eyes.
"don't worry sir, we only want to talk to her"
5 mins later the girl fantically called us to tell us she just got sent back in a van across the causeway.
1.they don't care. she's rejected previously might have been recorded.
2.that's not a lot if she's really here to "work" some carry more. but if she's already rejected the amt doesn't matter.
3. only certain countries.
4. not quite sure but if there's a local address it might help.
5. lol actually they still do, just that singaporeans are more up market now?
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and lol, your precsense might have made it worse lol
i didn't realised this was on going til that particular incident and apparently when they came in they've usually taken precautions like as some have mentioned. a ticket back home.
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Originally posted by Bob from Leeds:
Kuali
Please read the topic properly. I did not say that the ICA officers stole anything. I said that as a result of thier actions where she was seperated from her baggage by the ICA and the baggage was not properly tracked it was lost in the system. During its ‘lost period’ items were stolen over the 4 days missing. Could have been anywhere.
Also please grow up, of course there is smoke without fire. Clearly you have never been accused unjustly or do you think such things do not happen?
And how do you know that those items were not stolen before they arrived in Singapore? You're clearly letting your anger get the better of your judgment. That previous topic was closed because there were no new replies for 3 months.
You're free to air your grievances here but you probably won't get any answers or closure. We can only make guesses that aren't clouded by emotions. In Asia, "transparency" does not mean you'll get all the details you want. However, people don't get rejected twice based on whims, which means (1) something else is amiss, (2) it has been documented by the ICA, and (3) your grilfriend is not meant to know how to get around it. Either she is hiding something, or the officers are just following orders from above. At worst they're just like the TSA.
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Originally posted by Bob from Leeds:
Armi
1) She wasnt alone. I was in the airport waiting. The ICA just didnt bother thier arses to check.
2) She had over 1000 sing dollars worth of malaysian currency on her.
3) Are you saying that any girl (I say girl but she is over 30) travelling alone is a prostitiute? If so you seriously need to adjust your attitude to women and sex.
4) You think if your sister say is coming to visit her father or her boyfriend in a foreign country then she should be deported back to singapore becuse the immigration feel like it?
5) If the ICA wants to prevent prostitution in Singapore then they should go to Orchard Towers any bar or Geylang to the government approved brothels and round up those girls. You should also know that in the early 70s Singapore was full of women selling themselves to keep thier families fed, clothed and sometimes even to put sisters through school. These were not foreigners but Singaporeans, most of wheome will be grandmothers by now, but I doubt they talk about it much.
1) She wasnt alone. I was in the airport waiting. The ICA just didnt bother thier arses to check.
ans:it doesnt work that way and she should have told them u were waiting for her then u could explain.even then that doesnt mean she could come in.
2) She had over 1000 sing dollars worth of malaysian currency on her.
ans:and then why didnt they let her in?
3) Are you saying that any girl (I say girl but she is over 30) travelling alone is a prostitiute? If so you seriously need to adjust your attitude to women and sex.
ans:if u goto uk,australia etc ......thats what they do to all girls too at the customs and immigration section to foreigners.they do it to guys too!its not my attitude here in question!its the immigration officers here in question and the opinions were never mine!
4) You think if your sister say is coming to visit her father or her boyfriend in a foreign country then she should be deported back to singapore becuse the immigration feel like it?
ans:depends if she has enough.but i dont think $1000 is sufficient to be in spore for a month if u care to look at the hotel rates etc etc..yes some immigration especially australia do that sort of deportation.and if u have insufficient money or lack of stable people in foreign country who are able to accomodate them ....then they can be deported out of the blue the moment they reach the airport even with a visa.its very common in the UK and australia be it a tourist visa or student visa!
5) If the ICA wants to prevent prostitution in Singapore then they should go to Orchard Towers any bar or Geylang to the government approved brothels and round up those girls. You should also know that in the early 70s Singapore was full of women selling themselves to keep thier families fed, clothed and sometimes even to put sisters through school. These were not foreigners but Singaporeans, most of wheome will be grandmothers by now, but I doubt they talk about it much.
ans:are we living in the 1970s?in those days a computer to calculate and print a picture was the size of a room and a tv set weighs a ton.it would be like comparing people in the year 1927 technology and lifestyles to that of 1970s from your logic.theres a great difference here mate!hell..they probably havent invented the tv even 45 years b4 1970!fastforward to today 43 years later,i have no idea what u are talking and why we should be using your way of living.the current practice is prostitues are from china,thailand,vietnamese and phillippines.if there is no one to talk to then she will be deported.
well,if u came over to australia she would get the same treatment perhaps treated way worse than singapore.
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1) She wasnt alone. I was in the airport waiting. The ICA just didnt bother thier arses to check. ans:it doesnt work that way and she should have told them u were waiting for her then u could explain.even then that doesnt mean she could come in. Bob: She told them many times I wes there waiting and had come in on another flight. She gave them my telephne number. Please read the post. They just didnt want to know otr do thier jobn properly. 2) She had over 1000 sing dollars worth of malaysian currency on her. ans:and then why didnt they let her in? Bob: Dont know, you tell me why? She also had credit cards and I would have been her guarantor.....if they had bothered to speak to me. 3) Are you saying that any girl (I say girl but she is over 30) travelling alone is a prostitiute? If so you seriously need to adjust your attitude to women and sex. ans:if u goto uk,australia etc ......thats what they do to all girls too at the customs and immigration section to foreigners.they do it to guys too!its not my attitude here in question!its the immigration officers here in question and the opinions were never mine! Bob: Not talking about Australia, talking about Singapore but I am surre Australia and all do not reject entry without a proper recorded reason issued to the individual and without some evidence plus a clear appeal process. They also for sure will contact anybody who you give them a number for I know as a fact. 4) You think if your sister say is coming to visit her father or her boyfriend in a foreign country then she should be deported back to singapore becuse the immigration feel like it? ans:depends if she has enough.but i dont think $1000 is sufficient to be in spore for a month if u care to look at the hotel rates etc etc..yes some immigration especially australia do that sort of deportation.and if u have insufficient money or lack of stable people in foreign country who are able to accomodate them ....then they can be deported out of the blue the moment they reach the airport even with a visa.its very common in the UK and australia be it a tourist visa or student visa! Bob: She did not have to pay for a hotel, that was booked in my name and paid for. She told them that. Please read the post! I was also guarantor for her costs, She also had a visa card. 5) If the ICA wants to prevent prostitution in Singapore then they should go to Orchard Towers any bar or Geylang to the government approved brothels and round up those girls. You should also know that in the early 70s Singapore was full of women selling themselves to keep thier families fed, clothed and sometimes even to put sisters through school. These were not foreigners but Singaporeans, most of wheome will be grandmothers by now, but I doubt they talk about it much. ans:are we living in the 1970s?in those days a computer to calculate and print a picture was the size of a room and a tv set weighs a ton.it would be like comparing people in the year 1927 technology and lifestyles to that of 1970s from your logic.theres a great difference here mate!hell..they probably havent invented the tv even 45 years b4 1970!fastforward to today 43 years later,i have no idea what u are talking and why we should be using your way of living.the current practice is prostitues are from china,thailand,vietnamese and phillippines.if there is no one to talk to then she will be deported. Bob: Sorry dont understand what computers have to do with anything. We are talking about people here and the attitude of the ICA. well,if u came over to australia she would get the same treatment perhaps treated way worse than singapore. Bob: I am sure the Australians would be more transparent and provide proper investigation and evidence. Besides she can only go to Australia with an arranged visa. Here in Singapore she is part of ASEA so should be granted a 30 day visa on arrival without issue. Check the ICA web site. They are not following thier own rules and reciprocal agreements with other Asian nations in the region. .
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And how do you know that those items were not stolen before they arrived in Singapore? You're clearly letting your anger get the better of your judgment. That previous topic was closed because there were no new replies for 3 months. Bob: I dont but seams unlikely that in the one hour from K.L. it was opened and items taken. More likely to have been opened in the 4 days it was missing/lost. You're free to air your grievances here but you probably won't get any answers or closure. We can only make guesses that aren't clouded by emotions. In Asia, "transparency" does not mean you'll get all the details you want. However, people don't get rejected twice based on whims, which means (1) something else is amiss, (2) it has been documented by the ICA, and (3) your grilfriend is not meant to know how to get around it. Either she is hiding something, or the officers are just following orders from above. At worst they're just like the TSA. Bob: There is nothing else amis. She does not have a criminal record anywhere and has not been deported from Singapore, she is not hiding anything. Transparancy means exactly that. All pertinent details should be made available. I know Singapore is a closed society more akin to a police state than a democracy. You as the Singaporean do not realise this. More like the goldfish looking out of his bowl does not realise that his bowl is not the world and that he is the prisoner. I would not object if were not that there is supposed to be a clear agreement inder ASEA that visas are not required for Singaporeans. If they were then we would have arranged one before hand. What is the point of having a reciprocal agreement if it ony works one way?
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a young vietnamese widow trying to come into singapore alone ( u said u was on another flight)
she's not on business trip, not with tour group, not here to work and didnt even book a hotel.
let be fair with the officer bob, u tell me if u were the officer would u let her in?
this kind a stuff a 3 years old kid in singapore also know, how come pple like u who was working around the world dont know?
the whole incident u have yourself to blame bob but u are blaming everbody except yourself.
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Bob can pls post her picture here thank you
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think she may have a brush wiv the law in singapore in the past.
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The best person TS can get the answer from is non other than his own girlfriend..........
ICA give you face, don't tell you........
TS think so easy to get barred from entering Singapore?........lol
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Army As I have said many times, she does not have any previous problems in singapore. Nada, nothing, zilch, zero. She was here once with her now deceased husband on a holiday. It is puerly the ICA applying thier own whim. Nothing more. Dont believe me then please google 'denied access to sinngapre' and see how many thousand of unsubstantiated cases there are. These are just the ones reported. Regards Bob
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Bota Every other immigration autrhority in the world that I have come across, including third world and communist would have phoned the contact/boyfriend etc to ascertain the status. Not the arseholes in the ICA though. Secondly, there is an agreement between nations of ASEA. It is not stated as being based on further restrictions and compliance. Please feel free to look it up before making further uninformed comment. The ICA is basically applying pre visa requiremnts to an agreed reciprocal free movement protocol.
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wha since you so big no need cum here whine already alh. write so many, still cannot cum in hahaha heheh hhohohooh
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ICA can refuse entry to anyone. Even she from ASEAN does not guarantee any entry to Singapore. It only mention visa waiver but does not guarantee any entry. N I did apply for visa for my china friends before. The visa was granted but it was also mention on the electronics visa that this visa does not guarantee any entry to Singapore.
The main problem should be ICA suspect wat she will be doing. Cos that girl have stay for 30 days in kl prior to her trip to Singapore. Of course ica will suspect. Tot u mention that she have to work in Hanoi. Then why still keep on going to stay in kl for so long ? Wat was she doing in kl in the first place ? Tour for 30 days?