Many Singaporeans migrating....How come???
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depends on how big a bunch of farmers u have. more farmers than bullets, then might defeat the soldier.Originally posted by charlize:Sometimes I wonder when a real war comes, will all the technology in the world save the army with no pride and patriotism for the country?
I am thinking a bunch of changkol carrying farmers with a real desire to defend their land would defeat a machine gun totting soldier.
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Originally posted by HENG@:
If it is a mis communication, and I have misunderstood you, I apologise.
[b]I just said its NOT AS RACIST AS U EXAGGERATE, not THERE IS NO RACISM IN UK!!!
oh my goodness im getting frustrated with your inherent inability to READ! This is not about whether we can see things from other angles(but in any case, u can't seem to see things from other angles either). Its about being able to read and understand. how is it i can understand that u're saying that people u know have experienced what they think might be racism, while u cannot accept that u don't even understand what im trying to tell u?
[/b]
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viewpoints stem from perspectives don't they? yes i know some people just refuse to accept what we say and that can be frustrating.Originally posted by HENG@:im sorry. this is not about perspective. its not about viewpoints. u can't argue about perspectives and viewpoints when one side is completely off the plot and doesn't even understand what the other side is trying to say. All that happens is he imagines what he thinks im trying to tell him, but its not what I actually am saying!
seriously, is what im trying to say so complicated that NOBODY gets it?
u tell me, what u think i've been trying to say in all these pages.
honestly, i didn't read your postings. just went back to read what you've written though not everything. i tend to agwee with what you wrote but would've been better if you did not use expletives. -
depends on how big a bunch of farmers u have. more farmers than bullets, then might defeat the soldier.Originally posted by charlize:Sometimes I wonder when a real war comes, will all the technology in the world save the army with no pride and patriotism for the country?
I am thinking a bunch of changkol carrying farmers with a real desire to defend their land would defeat a machine gun totting soldier.
Hello Heng..
It is not about farmers and bullets, the point is about why people should be invovled in fighting for Singaporeans when there is a war!
Sure the famers have a reason to fight, and they are protecting their land from taken away? What have your soldiers got to fight for?
However, fighting for Singaporeans, here are a bunch or dogs and cats and rats. they already are fighting among themselves be4 a war got started. Just go to see how they outbid one another in trying to get the contracts from garmen etc... Soldiers die for honor , any honor U will die for Sinapore? -
Originally posted by norey:
Why don't you tell me, as a singaporean, what do I have to die for? Assume I'm salamised and that I can't think.
It is not about farmers and bullets, the point is about why people should be invovled in fighting for Singaporeans when there is a war!
Sure the famers have a reason to fight, and they are protecting their land from taken away? [b]What have your soldiers got to fight for?
However, fighting for Singaporeans, here are a bunch or dogs and cats and rats. they already are fighting among themselves be4 a war got started. Just go to see how they outbid one another in trying to get the contracts from garmen etc... Soldiers die for honor , any honor U will die for Sinapore?[/b] -
Originally posted by HENG@:
[b]I just said its NOT AS RACIST AS U EXAGGERATE, not THERE IS NO RACISM IN UK!!!
oh my goodness im getting frustrated with your inherent inability to READ! This is not about whether we can see things from other angles(but in any case, u can't seem to see things from other angles either). Its about being able to read and understand. how is it i can understand that u're saying that people u know have experienced what they think might be racism, while u cannot accept that u don't even understand what im trying to tell u? [/b]
1) Let me tell you this, UK people are MORE RACIST than you thought.
They are infact One of the most Racist, IF not the Most Racist in Europe.
We have seen facts previously.
Seemed like YOU are living in your own world, blinded by you own
biasing.
2)No one ever See UK people as Racist JUST BECOS they are Cliquish.
YOU seemed like the ONLY one that see this as so.
People are really not as stupid as you.
Think with your head, not your ass. -
repost :
Racist crimes up 33% in two years(1 February 2006):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/4670418.stm
quoted : There were 423 incidents in Plymouth in 2005,
up from 308 incidents reported to police in 2003.
One city/town alone!!!!
Tyres slashed in racist vandalism (5 January 2006):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4583608.stm
Two held over 'racist stabbing' (7 January 2006):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/4590504.stm
Teenager racially abused on bus(5 January 2006)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4583608.stm
Source: BBC 2006 JANUARY/FEBRUARY alone
For more :
Search Results (202 pages!!! cut from previous above)
http://newssearch.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?go.y=&start=3&q=racism&go.x=&tab=news&go=go&scope=newsifs
or do a search on on "news.bbc.co.uk" on "racism"
[/b] -
Can't live with the crowd over there, then don't migrate and quit your incessant attempts into trying to make people see that you are correct.
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That was not the pt of the argument.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Can't live with the crowd over there, then don't migrate and quit your incessant attempts into trying to make people see that you are correct.
I only provided facts to debunk that UK is more racist than many
had imagined.
Not whether one can mix or not or live with or without racism. -
the angmohs are always right??Originally posted by LazerLordz:Can't live with the crowd over there, then don't migrate and quit your incessant attempts into trying to make people see that you are correct. 
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its not refusing to accept what others say. its not actually understanding what others are trying to say. difference thereOriginally posted by snow leopard:viewpoints stem from perspectives don't they? yes i know some people just refuse to accept what we say and that can be frustrating.
honestly, i didn't read your postings. just went back to read what you've written though not everything. i tend to agwee with what you wrote but would've been better if you did not use expletives. -
Originally posted by norey:
don't worry norey. i fully agree with you
depends on how big a bunch of farmers u have. more farmers than bullets, then might defeat the soldier.
Hello Heng..
It is not about farmers and bullets, the point is about why people should be invovled in fighting for Singaporeans when there is a war!
Sure the famers have a reason to fight, and they are protecting their land from taken away? [b]What have your soldiers got to fight for?
However, fighting for Singaporeans, here are a bunch or dogs and cats and rats. they already are fighting among themselves be4 a war got started. Just go to see how they outbid one another in trying to get the contracts from garmen etc... Soldiers die for honor , any honor U will die for Sinapore?[/b] -
acceptedOriginally posted by sgdiehard:If it is a mis communication, and I have misunderstood you, I apologise. -
Originally posted by NuLife:
nulife nulife...
repost :
[b]Racist crimes up 33% in two years(1 February 2006):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/4670418.stm
quoted : There were 423 incidents in Plymouth in 2005,
up from 308 incidents reported to police in 2003.
One city/town alone!!!!
[/b]
[/b]
when u look at the increase in cases in plymouth alone, did u stop to consider other factors?
such as the increase of plymouth's population from 241,500 to almost 250,000?
thats an increase of 8500 people. with a corresponding increase in cases of racism reported, thats 1.35% of the increase in population.
even considering the number of racist incidents in accordance to its population in 2005, the number of cases per 100 population is only 0.17%(rounded UP) and racist incidents are likely to be committed by the same people over and over again. So Lets put it this into perspective.
Plymouth has 0.17% of its population racist, and that to you makes UK one of the most racist countries ever, in the world. Right. I see your logic. What percentage would make a country be considered "not so racist"? Hmmm?
Oh yea have a look here:
http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/homepage/communityandliving/racismandhomophobia.htm
Plymouth's City Council is planning on stamping out racism AND homophobia from, I quote: "from all aspects of our work and to ensuring we contribute to making Plymouth a safer place for minority communities. If you have experienced or witnessed a racist or homophobic incident we want to hear about it. Incidents may include: assault, vandalism, harassment, damage to property, name calling, graffiti, phone calls. This is not a full list - other things may be offensive to you."
So now the defination of what constitutes a racist incident has been expanded to include a lot more things. Of course we would expect the number of reported cases to increase. And that is actually a good thing, because if it's not reported, the authorities can't do anything about it can they?
So anyways, now I know why u keep screaming that UK is VERY racist. less than 1% of the population of a country is racist, u will consider that country very racist. Ok loh but u can focus less on the racist people and more on the non-racist people in a country. Its a pity u choose to live the other way.
As for thinking with head n ass, just think about this: whos the one who couldn't get the point to begin with, who's the one who had to resort to cheap blows and who's the one who simply dug up some headlines as evidence without even crunching the numbers or checking out other important statistics 1st? Like a number alone for racist cases reported gives me an idea of how good or bad the situation is, without the population number. Now I wonder if you didn't set out deliberately NOT to tell me the population of plymouth. Afterall, a 0.17% racist incident rate in plymouth alone makes your case looks sooooo much the weaker doesn't it? -
Originally posted by NuLife:
lets talk about the others.
repost :
[b]Tyres slashed in racist vandalism (5 January 2006):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4583608.stm
Two held over 'racist stabbing' (7 January 2006):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/4590504.stm
Teenager racially abused on bus(5 January 2006)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4583608.stm Source: BBC 2006 JANUARY/FEBRUARY alone
For more :
Search Results (202 pages!!! cut from previous above)
http://newssearch.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?go.y=&start=3&q=racism&go.x=&tab=news&go=go&scope=newsifs
or do a search on on "news.bbc.co.uk" on "racism"
[/b]
[/b]
1stly, when we say asian here, we mean indian and other people of brown skin. chinese people, japanese etc, are oriental.
as u know, London faced the July 7 bombings. There was definately going to be a backlash against the Muslim/Asian community. No country is free from racism, but most people won't go out and slash car tyres. There will always be a few extremist in anything, be it religion, racism, homophobia or sexism. One case of car tyres being slashed in a country with about 60 million people, puts everything into perspective. Besides, for everyone one racially motivated tyre slashing, there are countless cases where vandalism to cars are non-racially motivated, or profit orientated. Sure in this case it might be a racist attack, but that doesn't mean UK is a racist country. In indonesia, during the race riots they went about raping and chopping the heads of the chinese off, but I don't hear u say they are racist either. Just because they're part of Asia? Who knows, u might be the racist one here. Now thats a scary thought.
As for stabbings and abuse on public transport, lets put things into perspective too. Last month a white lawyer and an asian chef were robbed on the underground late at night while they were going home. By the same gang. All in the gang were white people. In this case, they killed the white lawyer but didn't kill the asian chef. Now if it were the other way around, this case could SO easily be classed as a racially motivated attack. In a country where large numbers of coloured and white people have to interact closely on a daily basis, sure there will be racist cases, but there will be a lot more incidents which are non-race related. Personally I'm telling you I've never faced any cases of racism towars myself, which might mean im lucky, which might mean more. I can tell you that I am blinded by my own biasednessed(because there is none) and I'm not living in my own world. I am living in UK's world, which means if UK is very racist (wow like 0.17% racist) then that is something I would want to experience as well. I am here, afterall, to experience UK as a resident would, not as a tourist, and if there is A LOT of racism here, then yes racism is part of the experience. Thus far I have not experienced any, though I don't doubt in future I might experience some, the point is it is not extremely racist here and I think most people would think so, unless like nulife, 0.17% racist is considered extremely racist for you. -
by the way u don't know that for sure. U're not being an impartial observer of how singaporean students act and interact within themselves and with non-singaporeans. U want to think they're not cliquish and that UK is very racist. U're very biased, how can u be an impartial observer?Originally posted by NuLife:2)No one ever See UK people as Racist JUST BECOS they are Cliquish.
YOU seemed like the ONLY one that see this as so.
People are really not as stupid as you.
Think with your head, not your ass.
And true people aren't as stupid as I am. They're much more stupid. Like you for instance, who need to resort to a statement like this to try and win an argument of reasoning and logic. -
heng heng,Originally posted by HENG@:nulife nulife...
when u look at the increase in cases in plymouth alone, did u stop to consider other factors?
such as the increase of plymouth's population from 241,500 to almost 250,000?
thats an increase of 8500 people. with a corresponding increase in cases of racism reported, thats 1.35% of the increase in population.
even considering the number of racist incidents in accordance to its population in 2005, the number of cases per 100 population is only 0.17%(rounded UP) and racist incidents are likely to be committed by the same people over and over again. So Lets put it this into perspective.
Plymouth has 0.17% of its population racist, and that to you makes UK one of the most racist countries ever, in the world. Right. I see your logic. What percentage would make a country be considered "not so racist"? Hmmm?
Oh yea have a look here:
http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/homepage/communityandliving/racismandhomophobia.htm
Plymouth's City Council is planning on stamping out racism AND homophobia from, I quote: "from all aspects of our work and to ensuring we contribute to making Plymouth a safer place for minority communities. If you have experienced or witnessed a racist or homophobic incident we want to hear about it. Incidents may include: assault, vandalism, harassment, damage to property, name calling, graffiti, phone calls. This is not a full list - other things may be offensive to you."
So now the defination of what constitutes a racist incident has been expanded to include a lot more things. Of course we would expect the number of reported cases to increase. And that is actually a good thing, because if it's not reported, the authorities can't do anything about it can they?
So anyways, now I know why u keep screaming that UK is VERY racist. less than 1% of the population of a country is racist, u will consider that country very racist. Ok loh but u can focus less on the racist people and more on the non-racist people in a country. Its a pity u choose to live the other way.
As for thinking with head n ass, just think about this: whos the one who couldn't get the point to begin with, who's the one who had to resort to cheap blows and who's the one who simply dug up some headlines as evidence without even crunching the numbers or checking out other important statistics 1st? Like a number alone for racist cases reported gives me an idea of how good or bad the situation is, without the population number. Now I wonder if you didn't set out deliberately NOT to tell me the population of plymouth. Afterall, a 0.17% racist incident rate in plymouth alone makes your case looks sooooo much the weaker doesn't it?
are u going to find detail abt Every single news which i quoted
in just a few seconds from a list of 200+ pages of search results?
dun forget that is only Jan/Feb 2006 news, i had even read cases in manchesters etc.
ur going into details of each news really make one feel
you are just trying to win an argument or being too baised towards ang moh.
like i said b4, i was wondering if uk was still as racist as when
i was in uk..(let me remind again, it was not just my personal experiences)
and was appalled to find such news in a simple search on bbc...
again, i wasn't trying to use just personal experiences.
personal experiences really isnt that accurate when compared with reported facts/news.
im not trying to just compare UK with sg or other asian countries.
And if its just based on personal experiences like you do,
my personal experiences to various european countries, US and australia,
really make me find UK the most racist "Among the western countries".
i understand ur argument trying to see from a diff perspectives,
but i cannot agree, because, the fact that we see a country as more or less racist,
is not based on just people/students ard us. (like i had said b4)
Just because one can mix with one or 2 groups of angmoh friends,
does not mean angmoh on the whole are less racist.
Its quite an illogical perspective.
Honestly, if you want to see them based on people you mix with
and if you have gone to work in US and other europeans countries
then compare with UK, you will see the big difference.
I had and i see it the difference.
Anyways, I just felt that many young sporeans have the mis-perception that UK/English
is really that great. I suspect its becos of the widely popular English league.
Honestly, IMO, the US and some european countries's people are really alot more worthy
of respect and admiration and of learning value, compared to UK.
..not going to go into details now...been rather busy lately.
ps:
and pls differentiate between discussion about pts
to the real reason why i make those remarks abt you.
so i really think you are the one who cant get the pts straight. -
you are the masters of these. not me/us.Originally posted by HENG@:Like you for instance, who need to resort to a statement like this to try and win an argument of reasoning and logic. -
However, these said,
I DO expect UK to be less racist in the future. Why?
Mainly becos of the rising of China.
US and Japan, being 2 biggest world economy had become
more wary of chinese, perhaps raises some racism issues
due of pride and nationalism and etc.
China had surpass UK in economy size recently,
and UK, being business oriented, have to accept the fact
that they are only a small country compared to China, US, Japan,
and have to work with chinese/asians in the future to survive.
This may improve racism issues in UK.
However, if they see china as competition, it will worsen racicism
against chinese generally.
Terrorist had also worsen racism against muslim/malays in general.
Just as an example of world events affecting racism worldwide.
Pardon any naive world view on these if any.
Anyways, shldn't sidetrack too much on migration issues again. -
I just need to say one thing
Nulife, YOU just WANT to think UK is racist, period.
I don't need to win an argument or be biased towards ang moh. Why? I believe I stand toe to toe with them as far as ability is concerned. Thats why I feel I can be more objective towards anything they can throw towards me instead of standing from an inferiority complex viewpoint and whining that people are being racist towards me.
The bottomline is, reports report something that happen, they don't report something that does not happen. From reports alone its easy to think a place is very racist, but do a proper check of number of cases against the entire population of a nation and the picture becomes clear. Unless of course, you just REFUSE to entertain even the notion that racism is not as extreme here as u think, and why? Because like I pointed out earlier, u have an inferority complex. BTW, I didn't spend a "few seconds" I spent a good half an hour getting my facts right before posting, something which I'm afraid we cannot say the same of you. How long did YOU spend before u came to the "fact" that I only spent "a few seconds"?
And to point out to you, I don't think angmoh are less racist just because "one can mix with one or 2 groups of angmoh friends,
does not mean angmoh on the whole are less racist." No. On the contary, I base it from my experience of people whom I don't know but whom I have to interact with, such as bus drivers, tube station staff, police, shopkeepers, other uni students, etc. Yet again I see u've made your own assumptions about where my point of view comes from.
Personally, I think many of the poorer and less educated english are louts, which is why they behave the way they do towards anyone, regardless of race. Towards an oriental, they call them chinks. Towards blacks, maybe nigger, but towards the whites, they have degradory terms too, such as scouse, mackem, garyboy, essex girl etc. U name it, they've got it. Personally, if you wish to view loutish behaviour as racism, you're welcome to. Like I said, I choose not to stand in a inferiority complex POV.
No indeed. You are the master of reasonless, logicless, baseless statements. I can hardly hold a candle to you. I wonder what reason logic or solid facts u based your deduction that I spent "a few seconds" looking up facts. Or how about your "genius" deduction that my view that UK is not EXTREMELY racist is "just based on just people/students ard us" ? We can all look back thru the pages and find even more such statements of wonderful "logic and reasoning" if we want to.
And finally, please don't make me laugh. US's people are worthy of admiration? Say that to ANY european, be they french, german, english, welsh, irish, scot, spanish, italian, greek, polish, swiss, portugese, and I can guarantee you, they will LAUGH in your face. It's downright funny you condemn the Brits as racist and then do your best to suck up to the Americans. the Americans are so in their own little world they can be misled into thinking that Australia and New Zealand are North and South Korea and accordingly want to nuke Australia. Or say things like "nuke the French because they are annoying" when interviewed on the streets by what they think is CNN. If only you knew the number of Americans who are embaressed by the "I'm the center of the world" mentality of majority of their fellow Americans, you wouldn't even say something as farcial as:
"Honestly, IMO, the US's people are really alot more worthy of respect and admiration and of learning value..."
If you actually look up to them then I guess that would also explain why u realy think the Brits are extremely racist. It all really smacks of an inferiority complex doesn't it? -
Ged: I've solved the mystery of why he thinks there is extreme racism in UK and OZ! This fella actually thinks Americans "are really alot more worthy of respect and admiration and of learning value than the Brits"
When one has ideas like that, nothing else inside is gonna make sense -
Hi snow leopard,Originally posted by snow leopard:hello folks,
let us not tear at one anothers' throats just because we see things differently and if that is not possible, let us at least try to be civil and gentlemanly.
thats what we all want here.
you may wanna turn back few pages on why i said what i did
and who the notoriously one that is a masters of name calling
and insulting others without respect.
more clues:
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=160170&page=4
if you could, try read til last page and decide on the notorious personality for yourself -
When facts are presented upon one's eyes,
and one still chooses to believe in his imagination.
It is Not Stupidity. It Is Called Foolishness.
IMO, I feel the Speakers Corner is really not for someone like you (heng)
who has with no respect for others.
As with the conclusion for others threads, i shall not continue
on this meaningless talk with someone as hopeless as you. -
Do we need to even say the comparison is in terms of respect for asians?Originally posted by HENG@:And finally, please don't make me laugh. US's people are worthy of admiration? Say that to ANY european, be they french, german, english, welsh, irish, scot, spanish, italian, greek, polish, swiss, portugese, and I can guarantee you, they will LAUGH in your face. It's downright funny you condemn the Brits as racist and then do your best to suck up to the Americans. the Americans are so in their own little world they can be misled into thinking that Australia and New Zealand are North and South Korea and accordingly want to nuke Australia. Or say things like "nuke the French because they are annoying" when interviewed on the streets by what they think is CNN. If only you knew the number of Americans who are embaressed by the "I'm the center of the world" mentality of majority of their fellow Americans, you wouldn't even say something as farcial as:
Obviously you din think and read again. Shall stop here. -
just remember, respect is EARNED, NOT GIVEN. if you want people to respect you, you jolly well behave in a socially-acceptable, respectable manner...that means not talking loudly and spitting all over with your gang, staying glued to one clique from your own race/country, stop having thinking that every foreigner is an evil, racist devil (oh please, that's so colonial times) and most importantly... INTEGRATE and try to live as part of the society you're living in...don't grumble for char kway teow, diss other countries' transport system and streets for being not as well-maintained as singapore's, mix around with the locals etc..gosh...