Many Singaporeans migrating....How come???
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wah lau. misunderstood again.what does it gotta do with mixing again.Originally posted by vito_corleone:just remember, respect is EARNED, NOT GIVEN. if you want people to respect you, you jolly well behave in a socially-acceptable, respectable manner...that means not talking loudly and spitting all over with your gang, staying glued to one clique from your own race/country, stop having thinking that every foreigner is an evil, racist devil (oh please, that's so colonial times) and most importantly... INTEGRATE and try to live as part of the society you're living in...don't grumble for char kway teow, diss other countries' transport system and streets for being not as well-maintained as singapore's, mix around with the locals etc..gosh...
when did i ever say all angmoh are racist.
its really just about my feeback from many friends on British only generally.
haha... i know u...u just enjoy stirring up disputes isn't it? hahaaa
really shall stop now. -
i disagwee ... the perception i get when i read some of ksj's rebuttals is that he doesn't give as much damn about what you're saying as you yourself would, not nececessarily that he does not understand what you said ...Originally posted by HENG@:its not refusing to accept what others say. its not actually understanding what others are trying to say. difference there -
hello NuLife ... don't really have time to read through the entire page but i roughly know who you're referring to. there are two abusive fellas here in this thread - heng and ksj. you don't have to agwee with either of them, neither do you have to give them any hoot ...Originally posted by NuLife:Hi snow leopard,
thats what we all want here.
you may wanna turn back few pages on why i said what i did
and who the notoriously one that is a masters of name calling
and insulting others without respect.
more clues:
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=160170&page=4
if you could, try read til last page and decide on the notorious personality for yourself -
not intending to add oil to fire ... just share my thoughts on the little side issue which i couldn't be bothered to read in completion.
my take of racism in uk is this. it is meaningless for person A to say that racism is not as serious as B claims. what A feels is a function of his own experiences, he thinks racism is fine in uk doesn't mean it is to B or to three million other people. there is no objective means for comparison, no benchmark so to speak ... whose benchmark should it be? A's opinion or B's opinion? completely arbitrary isn't it?
however, if you say racism in uk is a lot more worse than racism in singapore, then there is object in this comparison. how on average does a uk native treat uk immigrants compared to how on average a singaporean treats a singapore immigrant? do we barge right up to a person for no reason whatsover in the world and shout profanities into his face?
make a large enough sample of independent individuals and we get an idea who is right and who is wrong ... but in any case who cares? the ones who thinks its ok its ok, the one who think its not ok, its not ok, why go into a shouting match for this? -
very well said indeed!!Originally posted by snow leopard:.... there is no objective means for comparison, no benchmark so to speak ... whose benchmark should it be? A's opinion or B's opinion? completely arbitrary isn't it??
If I have only been to UK for 4 days and I come across just one unhappy incident when I feel discriminated in anyone day, I will leave Uk with a bad taste. say what you like it is one incident in 4 days. Each of us has our own experience. there is really no use arguing.
And to compare the relative population is even more ridiculous, for every 1 singaporean (3 million pop), there are 20 brits (60 million pop), and there are 400 mainland chinese (1.2 bn pop). In other words, 19 brits or 399 mainland chinese being racist cannot be as bad as 1 racist singaporean.Originally posted by snow leopard:however, if you say racism in uk is a lot more worse than racism in singapore, then there is object in this comparison. how on average does a uk native treat uk immigrants compared to how on average a singaporean treats a singapore immigrant? do we barge right up to a person for no reason whatsover in the world and shout profanities into his face?
make a large enough sample of independent individuals and we get an idea who is right and who is wrong ... but in any case who cares? the ones who thinks its ok its ok, the one who think its not ok, its not ok, why go into a shouting match for this?
the last sentence is absolutely right. those who want to stay in UK, stay, those who want to stay in singapore, stay. As for me, I avoid Uk if I can, and am always ready to correct any brits out in Asia, in case they think they might be slightly superior culturally.
How are the brits and the americans regarded in asia? put it this way, they have not earned for themselves a good reputation. May be they better stay at home.
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I hope you realise the delicious irony of you saying that.Originally posted by NuLife:When facts are presented upon one's eyes,
and one still chooses to believe in his imagination.
It is Not Stupidity. It Is Called Foolishness. Especially since I've pointed out how many baseless statements u've made. ohhhhh denial is futile. -
Funny. Lots of people respect Asians more than Americans. U really need to get out more. Americans aren't exactly respectable the way they think they can bully any nation into doing things. Most Europeans think that, most Asians think that, in fact most people in the world think that. Looks like u're really cross-wired.Originally posted by NuLife:Do we need to even say the comparison is in terms of respect for asians?
Obviously you din think and read again. Shall stop here. -
u've hit the nail on the head. Some people don't bother earning respect and then scream bloody racism every step of the way. Really, they ought to stop and think about how bad they make their race look. Pah. These people need to shake off their inferiority complex.Originally posted by vito_corleone:just remember, respect is EARNED, NOT GIVEN. if you want people to respect you, you jolly well behave in a socially-acceptable, respectable manner...that means not talking loudly and spitting all over with your gang, staying glued to one clique from your own race/country, stop having thinking that every foreigner is an evil, racist devil (oh please, that's so colonial times) and most importantly... INTEGRATE and try to live as part of the society you're living in...don't grumble for char kway teow, diss other countries' transport system and streets for being not as well-maintained as singapore's, mix around with the locals etc..gosh... -
too bad if all your friends suay. how come i know so many coloured people in UK and none of them think its racist here? If u want to see the worst of people, its easy to see many incidents as racist when they're not. Like I said, its up to u to shake of your inferiority complex. Same for your friends.Originally posted by NuLife:wah lau. misunderstood again.what does it gotta do with mixing again.
when did i ever say all angmoh are racist.
its really just about my feeback from many friends on British only generally.
haha... i know u...u just enjoy stirring up disputes isn't it? hahaaa
really shall stop now. -
Before u start reading the below, I implore you to read what i am going to say, and read everything carefully and in detail. ThanksOriginally posted by snow leopard:not intending to add oil to fire ... just share my thoughts on the little side issue which i couldn't be bothered to read in completion.
my take of racism in uk is this. it is meaningless for person A to say that racism is not as serious as B claims. what A feels is a function of his own experiences, he thinks racism is fine in uk doesn't mean it is to B or to three million other people. there is no objective means for comparison, no benchmark so to speak ... whose benchmark should it be? A's opinion or B's opinion? completely arbitrary isn't it?
however, if you say racism in uk is a lot more worse than racism in singapore, then there is object in this comparison. how on average does a uk native treat uk immigrants compared to how on average a singaporean treats a singapore immigrant? do we barge right up to a person for no reason whatsover in the world and shout profanities into his face?
make a large enough sample of independent individuals and we get an idea who is right and who is wrong ... but in any case who cares? the ones who thinks its ok its ok, the one who think its not ok, its not ok, why go into a shouting match for this?
u've made a small mistake there. B is not saying racism in uk is a lot more worse than racism is in sg. B is telling A racism is a lot more serious, period. A is saying its a lot less than B claims. So in effect, what B feels can be a function of his own experience too. But when there have been similiar experiences? Such as experiences thru interaction with bus drivers, tube staff, people on the streets, store owners? 1stly B made a false claim that A's experiences are only limited to A's circle of friends, without bothering to check if that is true.
2ndly, it IS easier to assume by yourself that u've encountered racism, when the encounter may entirely be because the other party was drunk, the other party is impolite by nature, or other factors. Unless u actually go and ask if the other party is seemingly discriminatory towards u due to your race, it is totally improper to simply lay the blame for all disfavourable encounters on racism alone. Don't u agree? <-- If this doesn't contain any logic or sense at all, please tell me. But if it does make sense and logic, even if you disagree, please don't dismiss it. Either find a counterargument, or if you can't, let it stand.
Of course, if u want to do a comparism about UK and Sg, then i will tell u that I've more often seen Singaporeans, in your own words "barge right up to a person for no reason whatsover in the world and shout profanities into his face" Yes I've seen Singaporeans do that to foreign Bangladeshi/Pakistani/Indian construction workers quite a few times. I've seldom seen any white people do the same here. Of course I will declare again that because I've not seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I'm sure it does, but again, not on a large scale as some people keep claiming here. Like I said again, if the cases of racist incidents reported is only 0.17% of the entire population of a city, does than mean the entire city is extremely racist?
Lets not forget we're using intelligent logic and reasoning to support our arguments here. You cannot deny the fact that although NuLife raised the fact that there was 400+ cases of racism in Plymouth in 2005, The population of Plymouth is factually 250,000. While I did not disregard his fact that there WERE 400+ cases of racism in Plymouth, when I raised the fact that Plymouth alone has a population of 250,000 and that means there was only a 0.17% racist incident rate, he tried to dismiss it as though it is not a fact. U really should think twice before labelling who is abusive and who is not. If u read properly, the discussion with NuLife turned ugly when he started the personal insults 1st. I don't dismiss his facts, to remind you. I take his facts, and I find out what he missed out, what he did not represent, or what alternative views might have led to the occurance of his facts. The only thing I don't do is to simply dismiss them. This, unfortunately, is not something I can say for many here. when they see a counter-argument they cannot debate against, they simply dismiss it with attacks on a person's personal honour, such as saying that they spent "a few seconds" looking up facts. Even more surprising are the number of people who think this is acceptable.
with KSJ, that was another matter, and I usually tend to stay civilized with people. There are more people here on forums who can testify to that fact then there are those who think otherwise. I don't suffer fools gladly, and its apologetic that I might tred on their toes, but sometimes they bring it upon themselves by not sticking purely to using reason and logic to argue. -
Excuse me, I think u better read through the threads properly again.Originally posted by snow leopard:hello NuLife ... don't really have time to read through the entire page but i roughly know who you're referring to. there are two abusive fellas here in this thread - heng and ksj. you don't have to agwee with either of them, neither do you have to give them any hoot ...
Like I said, I don't suffer fools gladly. Anyone else who is able to debate with me in a manner of reason and logic, I seldom abuse them. If you want, I can even name people who will testify to it.
I have even conceeded arguments and re-evaluated my viewpoints on many occasions when the other party's logic and reasoning have been stronger. If you're another one of those who don't mind making snap judgements about me from a few threads alone, then really, you can stop pretending to be impartial and just openly show your support for NuLife. I mean, your mistakes in understanding the arguments show a biasedness towards him does it not? If not, why would u mistake what he said as "racism in uk is a lot more worse than racism in singapore" when what NuLife is saying is "racism is a lot more worse than heng thinks"?
why not make a favourable mistake towards understanding my arguments instead? why make one towards his? -
look, im sorry if you've only been here for 4 days and had bad experiences in a short stay. maybe u would care to tell me what happened?Originally posted by sgdiehard:And to compare the relative population is even more ridiculous, for every 1 singaporean (3 million pop), there are 20 brits (60 million pop), and there are 400 mainland chinese (1.2 bn pop). In other words, 19 brits or 399 mainland chinese being racist cannot be as bad as 1 racist singaporean.
the last sentence is absolutely right. those who want to stay in UK, stay, those who want to stay in singapore, stay. As for me, I avoid Uk if I can, and am always ready to correct any brits out in Asia, in case they think they might be slightly superior culturally.
How are the brits and the americans regarded in asia? put it this way, they have not earned for themselves a good reputation. May be they better stay at home.
And how is it ridiculous to compare the relative population? That is the way everything is calculated in this world, from GDP, GNP, to crime rates. You can't possibly tell me a village with 20 people in total and all of them are racist is a better place to live than a village with 500 people and 40 of them are racist? That is just absurd. While there might be a higher absolute number of racists, the physical location is bigger, there are more non-racists as well, and as such, not only is the chance of meeting a racist lesser, the social attitude is that racism is not acceptable due to there being a higher number of non-racist people. <-- If this doesn't contain any logic or sense at all, please tell me. But if it does make sense and logic, even if you disagree, please don't dismiss it. Either find a counterargument, or if you can't, let it stand.
And of course u can correct any WHITES with a superior attitude. They're in OUR territory, they have to show respect. As long as u do it with an attitude that u can stand toe to toe with them, not with an attitude where u feel inferior and thus, a need to cut them down to size. -
to make a small summary:
Nulife says in Plytmouth alone there have been 400+ cases of racism. I agree, because this is a fact. However, I will also point out that Plytmouth has a population of 250,000 and this means that there is only an approx 0.17% of racist incidents in Plytmouth. Assuming that every case was commited by a different indivudual, this means only 0.17% of Plytmouth's population are racist. Even supposing that every case involved 2 different persons, only 0.34% of the population are racist. When we consider the fact that some cases have the same offenders, it balances out, so lets take 0.34% as the arbitary figure for % racism of Plytmouth's population. Isn't 0.34% a very small figure to be honest? It would mean that out of every 100 people you meet, the chances that you will meet even 1 racist is very small. <-- If this doesn't contain any logic or sense at all, please tell me. But if it does make sense and logic, even if you disagree, please don't dismiss it. Either find a counterargument, or if you can't, let it stand.
Also, lets look at what Plymouth is doing to counter racism:
from the Plymouth City Council website:
Racist and Homophobic Incidents
We are committed to eliminating racism and homophobia from all aspects of our work and to ensuring we contribute to making Plymouth a safer place for minority communities. If you have experienced or witnessed a racist or homophobic incident we want to hear about it. Incidents may include: assault, vandalism, harassment, damage to property, name calling, graffiti, phone calls. This is not a full list - other things may be offensive to you.
You can choose to report in one of two ways:
by printing off a reporting form (see file attachments table below), completing it and returning it to the Corporate Customer Care unit, or
by completing the on-line reporting form.
You will be contacted within 25 days - if it is going to take longer we will let you know.
Any information you provide will be stored confidentially and used to assist us in dealing with the incident you have reported. Anonymous details from your report will also be used for statistical purposes to help develop and improve policy and service delivery.
Racism: ‘in general terms, consists of conduct or words or practices which disadvantage or advantage people because of their colour, culture or ethnic origin. In its more subtle form it is as damaging as its overt form’
Racist incident: ‘any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person’
Homophobia: ‘fear or dislike of someone who is lesbian, gay or bisexual. It can vary in intensity from passive resentment to active victimisation.’
Homophobic incident: ‘any incident which is perceived to be homophobic by the victim or any other person’ -
Another point I would like to point out would be that a large portion of racially motivated crime in UK is carried out by coloured people against white people. Bear in mind that when arguing that UK whites are extremely racist, a large portion of racial crime commited AGAINST white people will have to be discounted, thus lowering the validity of the argument for UK whites being extreme racists. <-- If this doesn't contain any logic or sense at all, please tell me. But if it does make sense and logic, even if you disagree, please don't dismiss it. Either find a counterargument, or if you can't, let it stand.
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Originally posted by HENG@:
Before u start reading the below, I implore you to read what i am going to say, and read everything carefully and in detail. Thanks
will try my best to.
u've made a small mistake there. B is not saying racism in uk is a lot more worse than racism is in sg. B is telling A racism is a lot more serious, period. A is saying its a lot less than B claims.
who ever commented about B? i didn't even read what B wrote. I only read what A wrote coz A asked me to so my comments were in relation to what A wrote. so again i have to disagwee, nope, i did not make any mistakes.
So in effect, what B feels can be a function of his own experience too. But when there have been similiar experiences? Such as experiences thru interaction with bus drivers, tube staff, people on the streets, store owners? 1stly B made a false claim that A's experiences are only limited to A's circle of friends, without bothering to check if that is true.
so it's one person's experiences versus another person's experiences. what is there to compare? who is to say who is more right or more wrong?
2ndly, it IS easier to assume by yourself that u've encountered racism, when the encounter may entirely be because the other party was drunk, the other party is impolite by nature, or other factors. Unless u actually go and ask if the other party is seemingly discriminatory towards u due to your race, it is totally improper to simply lay the blame for all disfavourable encounters on racism alone. Don't u agree? [b]<-- If this doesn't contain any logic or sense at all, please tell me. But if it does make sense and logic, even if you disagree, please don't dismiss it. Either find a counterargument, or if you can't, let it stand.
that is possible, but more often than not they're not drunk. surely any idiot can tell the difference between a drunkard and a sober man?
Of course, if u want to do a comparism about UK and Sg, then i will tell u that I've more often seen Singaporeans, in your own words "barge right up to a person for no reason whatsover in the world and shout profanities into his face" Yes I've seen Singaporeans do that to foreign Bangladeshi/Pakistani/Indian construction workers quite a few times. I've seldom seen any white people do the same here. Of course I will declare again that because I've not seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I'm sure it does, but again, not on a large scale as some people keep claiming here. Like I said again, if the cases of racist incidents reported is only 0.17% of the entire population of a city, does than mean the entire city is extremely racist?
your experience might be unique. randomly go around the country, pick people and ask the same question, then see what answers you get.
is 0.17% a significant number? is it even meaningful?
Lets not forget we're using intelligent logic and reasoning to support our arguments here. You cannot deny the fact that although NuLife raised the fact that there was 400+ cases of racism in Plymouth in 2005, The population of Plymouth is factually 250,000. While I did not disregard his fact that there WERE 400+ cases of racism in Plymouth, when I raised the fact that Plymouth alone has a population of 250,000 and that means there was only a 0.17% racist incident rate, he tried to dismiss it as though it is not a fact. U really should think twice before labelling who is abusive and who is not.
yes you do have a point here but you can make sense and be abusive at the same time. similarly you may have missed out somewhere but still not be abusive.
for all you know there may only be 400 foreigners in plymouth so it's a 100% every foreigner getting it at least once. also, 400 are the established cases, many more go unheard ...
If u read properly, the discussion with NuLife turned ugly when he started the personal insults 1st. I don't dismiss his facts, to remind you. I take his facts, and I find out what he missed out, what he did not represent, or what alternative views might have led to the occurance of his facts.
like i said i have the slightest of interest in this side topic and couldn't be bothered with the discussion really.
The only thing I don't do is to simply dismiss them. This, unfortunately, is not something I can say for many here. when they see a counter-argument they cannot debate against, they simply dismiss it with attacks on a person's personal honour, such as saying that they spent "a few seconds" looking up facts. Even more surprising are the number of people who think this is acceptable.
i can understand. the number one loser here who constantly does it is salman. -
Originally posted by HENG@:
Excuse me, I think u better read through the threads properly again.
Like I said, I don't suffer fools gladly. Anyone else who is able to debate with me in a manner of reason and logic, I seldom abuse them. If you want, I can even name people who will testify to it.
I have even conceeded arguments and re-evaluated my viewpoints on many occasions when the other party's logic and reasoning have been stronger. If you're another one of those who don't mind making snap judgements about me from a few threads alone, then really, you can stop pretending to be impartial and just openly show your support for NuLife.
it is precisely because this is not the first time i have seen you engaged in such abusive hurls that i am prompted to make that remark. a person who is abusive will not admit that he is. neither do i expect you to.
I mean, your mistakes in understanding the arguments show a biasedness towards him does it not? If not, why would u mistake what he said as "racism in uk is a lot more worse than racism in singapore" when what NuLife is saying is "racism is a lot more worse than heng thinks"?
my mistakes? so who is the one making snappy judgements now heh? do not be mistaken, i am not biased towards him. in fact, i support some of your arguments, especially those pertaining to the right to a better life.
i didn't even read what NuLife wrote so how can i possibly mistake what he said? all i read was what you wrote. you said it is not as bad as someone else says so. that is precisely what i was referring to. how do you justify based on your individual experience that what the other guy thinks (whatever he thinks) is not really what he thinks?
why not make a favourable mistake towards understanding my arguments instead? why make one towards his?
look my friend, no one is misunderstanding you. sometimes you just have to accept that people don't share the same views. just because they don't share your views doesn't mean they don't understand where you're coming from. -
Originally posted by HENG@:
You can't possibly tell me a village with 20 people in total and all of them are racist is a better place to live than a village with 500 people and 40 of them are racist?
just because there were 40 reports of racism, you conclude there are 40 racists? maybe there are only 40 foreigners so even though there may be more racists, there aren't enough foreigners to go around for them to taunt.
this year 40 foreigners got taunted and they left, replaced by another 40 who gets taunted by a different set of 40 racists. so every year we have 40 cases but if you add last year and this year, there are actually 80 racists.
foreigners come and go, especially students, but racists stay ...
you may also have 10 taunters in each of the racism cases so although we have only 40 cases, we may end up having 400 taunters ... -
we're talking about there actually being 40 racists, not 40 cases of racism. And this is a hypothetical case, supposed to ilustrate why everything in this world is measured with regards to the population. Even in your case, where there are 80 cases of racism, there are still ONLY 40 racists.Originally posted by snow leopard:just because there were 40 reports of racism, you conclude there are 40 racists? maybe there are only 40 foreigners so even though there may be more racists, there aren't enough foreigners to go around for them to taunt.
this year 40 foreigners got taunted and they left, replaced by another 40 who gets taunted by a different set of 40 racists. so every year we have 40 cases but if you add last year and this year, there are actually 80 racists.
foreigners come and go, especially students, but racists stay ...
you may also have 10 taunters in each of the racism cases so although we have only 40 cases, we may end up having 400 taunters ... -
I saw this and had to laugh. I definately agree with this statement!Originally posted by snow leopard:i can understand. the number one loser here who constantly does it is salman. -
well HENG,Originally posted by HENG@:we're talking about there actually being 40 racists, not 40 cases of racism. And this is a hypothetical case, supposed to ilustrate why everything in this world is measured with regards to the population. Even in your case, where there are 80 cases of racism, there are still ONLY 40 racists.
if you were to refer to the ariticle that was quoted or for that matter any article on racism, more often than not, it is about number of cases - not actual racists. hypothetical as it is, it suggests that racism can be much worse than that represented by a per population figure. what is distinctively missing is the number of foreigners. if there are 4000 foreigners and 400 cases, racism is bad really. on the other hand if there are a million foreigners and no reported cases of racism, racism is virtually non-existent ...
in my case, it can range anything from 1 racist to 80 racists, the former happens when all 80 racism cases were committed by the same racist and the latter when all 80 racism cases (40 last year, 40 this year) were committed by various racists. -
u miss another point. Racism is NOT confined to foreigners alone. A racist incident can be seen as one where an gang of local Asian people beating up a local white man as much as a gang of local white boys beating up a local Asian man. Neither of them involve foreigners. So it still points more to the fact that number of cases per population is more accurate than number of cases per foreigner(and how do u define foreigner?). and in any case, no matter which way u cut it, the evidence JUST doesn't support the hypothesis that it is worse than it is. It is easy to find a few incidents on the news papers and take that as a generalised view of racism. But all this is easy when u don't bear in mind the context of the UK population.Originally posted by snow leopard:well HENG,
if you were to refer to the ariticle that was quoted or for that matter any article on racism, more often than not, it is about number of cases - not actual racists. hypothetical as it is, it suggests that racism can be much worse than that represented by a per population figure. what is distinctively missing is the number of foreigners. if there are 4000 foreigners and 400 cases, racism is bad really. on the other hand if there are a million foreigners and no reported cases of racism, racism is virtually non-existent ...
in my case, it can range anything from 1 racist to 80 racists, the former happens when all 80 racism cases were committed by the same racist and the latter when all 80 racism cases (40 last year, 40 this year) were committed by various racists.
Tackling this from another angle, in the UK racial incidents are encouraged to be reported. In Singapore for example(im not saying singapore is more racist), if an ah beng go screams into the fact of a foreign indian worker, its highly doubtful that the incident would ever be reported, and while there is an emphasis on racial harmony in sg, you seldom see encouragement to report racially-motivated incidents. So when you take the number of cases into context, u have to consider government policy as well. In the UK where government policy is to crackdown heavily on racism, and people are encouraged to report the cases, a higher number or even ratio of racist cases to population does not represent an extremely racist population. By contrast a lack of reported cases alone in another country does not represent low racist attitudes within a population. If you have a country which does not encourage reporting of racist cases, and the number of reported cases is still average or even high, then yes I would heartily agree that there is actually an extreme racism attitude amongst the population.
Based on the evidence at hand, therefore, the logical and reasonable thing to do is to conclude that the UK is definately not as extreme as has been put foward by some here. -
Originally posted by HENG@:
u miss another point. Racism is NOT confined to foreigners alone. A racist incident can be seen as one where an gang of local Asian people beating up a local white man as much as a gang of local white boys beating up a local Asian man. Neither of them involve foreigners.
yes you are right, i forgot about that. if you are consciously aware of people of different races beating one another up, then surely the ugliness of racism is pretty much severe there. the fact that i left out interracial abuses goes to show how unheard of racism amongst races occurs here. thus to include your new perspective, racism is extra mild here compared to those in UK.
So it still points more to the fact that number of cases per population is more accurate than number of cases per foreigner(and how do u define foreigner?).
no it does not. a very mixed population (rojak in terms of foreigners, blacks, whites, browns, yellows whatever you like to include) will all else being equal, have a much higher incidence of racism compared to one that is relatively homogeneous. the fact that we're talking about a small english town that ought to be relatively homogeneously white suggests that 400 might be a tad too high a figure, regardless its per population figure.
rather than foreigner, since you like to include different races, minorities might be a better word then.
and in any case, no matter which way u cut it, the evidence JUST doesn't support the hypothesis that it is worse than it is. It is easy to find a few incidents on the news papers and take that as a generalised view of racism. But all this is easy when u don't bear in mind the context of the UK population.
on the other hand, given all the alternative scenarios possible, your interpretation that it is not worse than it actually is, is also equally not evident.
if we include (if we're free enough to actually find out) the racial mix of that particular town (which i'm confident is pretty homogeneous) we actually have a better case to say that racism is indeed much uglier there than say here in singapore.
Tackling this from another angle, in the UK racial incidents are encouraged to be reported. In Singapore for example(im not saying singapore is more racist), if an ah beng go screams into the fact of a foreign indian worker, its highly doubtful that the incident would ever be reported, and while there is an emphasis on racial harmony in sg, you seldom see encouragement to report racially-motivated incidents. So when you take the number of cases into context, u have to consider government policy as well. In the UK where government policy is to crackdown heavily on racism, and people are encouraged to report the cases, a higher number or even ratio of racist cases to population does not represent an extremely racist population. By contrast a lack of reported cases alone in another country does not represent low racist attitudes within a population. If you have a country which does not encourage reporting of racist cases, and the number of reported cases is still average or even high, then yes I would heartily agree that there is actually an extreme racism attitude amongst the population.
in other words you're saying there may well be a lot more hidden racism cases here than in the UK. that may well be but observations suggest otherwise. racism on minorities is so unheard of i didn't even include it in the first place. there was a recent racial debate on the internet that eventually led to two chinese jailed. shows our govt stamps out racism much more strongly than in the uk (or the west in general), where you constantly hear abuses of iraqi soldiers.
Based on the evidence at hand, therefore, the logical and reasonable thing to do is to conclude that the UK is definately not as extreme as has been put foward by some here.
based on the same evidence, i would conclude otherwise. -
i feel disappointed with the singapore policy of giving PR cheaply CHINA PR and Indian PR and most of the times, when walking in streets i dont feel its singapore anymore, maybe feel more like shanghai, shenzhen.
office building in town area are fill with lotsa indians obviously from india the nos of veg, stalls opening one after another show the indians are really here getting their PR and then leave for a so call greener pasture.
#^%$#^% them.
i have pride being a singaporean though definitely not arrogrant compare to the china and indian ppl working in spore.
those who want to migrate please go ahead. those who stay need not feel jealous. afterall this is our birthland. the current situation here is due to us not participating more into the govt policy. try to make it count in the next election if we are to see changes in the bad policy. -
bo bian...sooner or later amount of FTs/FWs will outnumber us and there we are considred foreign liaoOriginally posted by reyes:i feel disappointed with the singapore policy of giving PR cheaply CHINA PR and Indian PR and most of the times, when walking in streets i dont feel its singapore anymore, maybe feel more like shanghai, shenzhen.
office building in town area are fill with lotsa indians obviously from india the nos of veg, stalls opening one after another show the indians are really here getting their PR and then leave for a so call greener pasture.
#^%$#^% them.
i have pride being a singaporean though definitely not arrogrant compare to the china and indian ppl working in spore.
those who want to migrate please go ahead. those who stay need not feel jealous. afterall this is our birthland. the current situation here is due to us not participating more into the govt policy. try to make it count in the next election if we are to see changes in the bad policy. -
Can't help it. Sgporeans are just not making enuf babes.Originally posted by reyes:i feel disappointed with the singapore policy of giving PR cheaply CHINA PR and Indian PR and most of the times, when walking in streets i dont feel its singapore anymore, maybe feel more like shanghai, shenzhen.
office building in town area are fill with lotsa indians obviously from india the nos of veg, stalls opening one after another show the indians are really here getting their PR and then leave for a so call greener pasture.
#^%$#^% them.
i have pride being a singaporean though definitely not arrogrant compare to the china and indian ppl working in spore.
those who want to migrate please go ahead. those who stay need not feel jealous. afterall this is our birthland. the current situation here is due to us not participating more into the govt policy. try to make it count in the next election if we are to see changes in the bad policy.
Population size is important key to sustaining and growing economy.
More important is that we have smart and hardworking people
now that the global economic interation is more important than ever.
I don't mind hardworking people coming in and make young
complacent sporeans wake up.
Beside, ain't our forefathers from china, indians etc??
Many of our great/grandparents are also from China/India.
One more generation will make some of these PRs kids Sporeans.
Those who stay temporarily or sgporeans who leave.. i say let them leave.
There will be some who wish to stay here and make sg their home.
Whichever way, it will make spore a more cosmopolitian,
more multiracial, more tolerant and colorful.
Thats what a modern country and city should be.