Cartoon of Mohammad creates International Row.
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here are a few to fan the flames
- This posting is edited as directed by MDA - -
Do remember that "some" muslim countries have nukes
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Please respect each other's beliefs. There is no one specific path to God but many paths. All religions link to God. God is the radio and many religions are the many radio channels broadcast from the radio(God). All religions teach us to love each other , not hate each other . So we must respect our Muslim friends as well. We do this by not publishing the cartoons in not only sgforums, but also in other local forums as well.
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respect is earned and not demanded..
now, if they had actually put in peacefully their distaste to the Danish people, and engaged them in debate instead of burning down embassies and killing a few of their own protestors in while chaotic violent riots, people will respect them and tell the newspapers to stuff it...
instead, the newspaper is now a hero while they have disgraced their own countries, their own religion and everyone around them...
respect can also be earned by telling Iran to stuff it with their organising "holocaust cartoon contest" and maniacs going "allahu akbar" before committing mass murder and mayhem...
have they done any of that?Originally posted by assfer:Please respect each other's beliefs. There is no one specific path to God but many paths. All religions link to God. God is the radio and many religions are the many radio channels broadcast from the radio(God). All religions teach us to love each other , not hate each other . So we must respect our Muslim friends as well. We do this by not publishing the cartoons in not only sgforums, but also in other local forums as well. -
Despite the Islamic prohibition against depicting the Prophet under any circumstances, hundreds of paintings and drawings of him have been created over the centuries without any complaint from the Muslim world. Check this out www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/
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wow so many antimuslims here! lol singapore better be careful coz it's surrounded by malays who are mostly muslims! i dont think singapore need to speak about freedom of speech, where in singapore do you get that?
maybe this isn't related but some people may find it interesting. just to keep things in perspective.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4657926.stm
'Christians beaten up' in Bhopal
Twenty-five Christians have been beaten up by attackers in the central Indian city of Bhopal, police say.
A witness said he saw about 35 people armed with iron rods and sticks fleering from the house where the Christians had been praying.
A BBC correspondent in Bhopal says this is the first such incident in the city.
Christians have been under pressure in the state, Madhya Pradesh, from right wing Hindus. One Hindu leader denied any involvement in the attack.
Bhopal police chief Anant Kumar Singh said several of the Christians, including a priest and a child, were seriously injured.
He said the prayer meeting included about 15 children.
Local Hindu organisation leader, Devendra Rawat, said he condemned such attacks.
But he said Christians in the area where the attack took place were offering incentives for poor and illiterate Hindus to convert. -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4703262.stm
Deadly clashes spark Assam curfew
Indian army troops have been deployed and a curfew imposed after clashes in the north-eastern state of Assam.
On Friday, two policemen and five demonstrators were killed during a riot in Kakopathar, in Tinsukia district.
Police said they opened fire to disperse a crowd protesting against the death in custody of a man suspected of having links with separatists.
United Liberation Front of Assam rebels have been fighting for a separate Assamese homeland for nearly 30 years.
'Self-defence'
Authorities imposed a curfew in Kakopathar and many adjoining areas, as tension spread with news of the police firing.
According to police, thousands of protesters had converged on a police station and tried to burn it down.
"The mob was advancing on the local police station, forcing security forces to fire in self-defence," district police superintendent Debojit Hazarika was quoted by the Associated Press as saying.
Five demonstrators were killed in the shooting. The angry mob is then said to have killed two policemen.
The crowd was protesting at the death of Ajit Mahanta, who is believed to have links with Ulfa rebels.
Mr Mahanta died in military custody last week. Three army officials have faced disciplinary action over his death.
More than 10,000 people have died in the rebel group's fight for a separate homeland.
On Monday, Ulfa representatives held talks with senior Indian officials, after which the government said it would consider releasing some detained rebels and look into human rights complaints.
I STRONGLY believe you're all just wannabe whites. since in western world race is an indispensable idea of community, a westerner is thought to be white and vice versa for not so logical reasons.
only when western diplomat gets attacked it's INTERNATIONAL news, only when sign in singapore says "DANISH CITIZENS NOT WELCOME" or sth 2 that effect, it hits the headline.
however if it's millions of poor africans dying of genocide or famine or hunger, it's NOT international news. in other words, two danish embassy officials more important than millions of poor people.
IN FACT, why don't we bring up the examples of iraq & afghanistan. how long since afghanistan has been attacked? we all believed the self-righteous americans would have "liberated" the afghans by now, and it would have been a "very prosperous", "safe" and "free" nation by now.
what is the ground reality over there in afghanistan?
How many people have been killed so far in iraq by western bombing, gunning etc? how many people have been killed by terrorists in iraq suicide bombings? May I ask what event UNLEASHED all these killings of innocents?
how about testing freedom of speech in western world? how about we suggest we kill an equal, strictly equal, not more nor less number of americans by dropping bombs in america? or a combination in america, uk, aussie etc? do you think freedom of speech will be supported?
you see freedom of speech only extends to what western countries like, not other countries.
Why don't the westerners (or singaporean chinese/others western a$skissers tell us when they protested against US invasion of iraq, something the world community, not just a bunch of countries in west europe or n.america or their lackeys in east asia (e.g. SG), strongly forbade to do?
oh wait, singapore is such a huge c0cksuc.ker of USa, it has naval bases in its OWN territory catering to US. why leh? USA coc.k tastes better? wah lau, knn cb. (the words in italics are jokes)
tmd, better just say it's another occasion to start antimuslim rhetoric.
if any event started by muslims (terrorists or not, real or nominal) blame them. if it's started by danes, blame muslims coz they reacted. if they don't react, still make fun saying they can't react.
in the end it boils down to bashing muslims innit? hahaha, dun worry sinkaporeans, dat time may not be far away when sikapore is squeezed by some giant neighbours? (btw, let's see if freedom of speech is also extended in this case. you know very well, what will happen if you say what should happen to singapore. but can you say that? no. why leh? coz freedom of speech doesn't even exist in singapore. ) nor in western countries. it's all limited freedom, in other words no freedom.
OH and PLZ (esp salman, who claims to be a "Liberal" but is avowedly antimuslim), don't just browse the lines, read all parts of the post then reply. k? pore over all parts of it. -
Originally posted by protonhybrid:
Lots of things hit headlines too, like grandma being raped or singapore won tiger cup.
only when western diplomat gets attacked it's INTERNATIONAL news, only when sign in singapore says "DANISH CITIZENS NOT WELCOME" or sth 2 that effect, it hits the headline.
So why are these fanatics not helping the poor in africa but make so much noise over cartoons?
however if it's millions of poor africans dying of genocide or famine or hunger, it's NOT international news. in other words, two danish embassy officials more important than millions of poor people.
Much better than under the Taliban and they had free elections for the first time in their history and women actually get to vote and sit in parliament.
IN FACT, why don't we bring up the examples of iraq & afghanistan. how long since afghanistan has been attacked? we all believed the self-righteous americans would have "liberated" the afghans by now, and it would have been a "very prosperous", "safe" and "free" nation by now.
what is the ground reality over there in afghanistan?
Rome wasn't built in one day bro.
Much less than what Saddam killed and much less than what the fanatics are bombing innocent people.
How many people have been killed so far in iraq by western bombing, gunning etc? how many people have been killed by terrorists in iraq suicide bombings? May I ask what event UNLEASHED all these killings of innocents?
Why aen't these screamers help fight terrorists in Iraq but scream over cartoons? Thats the question we need to ask.
You call that free speech?
how about testing freedom of speech in western world? how about we suggest we kill an equal, strictly equal, not more nor less number of americans by dropping bombs in america? or a combination in america, uk, aussie etc? do you think freedom of speech will be supported?
Why arethe imams and mullahs all over the world allowed to preach hatred of other religions? Is freedom of speecgh the monopoly of muslims alone?
you see freedom of speech only extends to what western countries like, not other countries.
And msians bow down to the arabs and worship them every day.
oh wait, singapore is such a huge c0cksuc.ker of USa, it has naval bases in its OWN territory catering to US. why leh? USA coc.k tastes better? wah lau, knn cb. (the words in italics are jokes)
So what are you spewing? anti Singapore and anti west rhetoric?
tmd, better just say it's another occasion to start antimuslim rhetoric.
You got it all wrong my friend, its not muslim bashing cos not all muslims are fanatics.
in the end it boils down to bashing muslims innit? hahaha, dun worry sinkaporeans, dat time may not be far away when sikapore is squeezed by some giant neighbours? (btw, let's see if freedom of speech is also extended in this case. you know very well, what will happen if you say what should happen to singapore. but can you say that? no. why leh? coz freedom of speech doesn't even exist in singapore. ) nor in western countries. it's all limited freedom, in other words no freedom. -
alright from salman's posts it's obvious i need to stoop down to his level if i need to reply at ALL.
but i'll try my best to maintain decency when i reply to other forumers, so forumers plz take note of this k?
quote:
quote:
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Originally posted by protonhybrid:
only when western diplomat gets attacked it's INTERNATIONAL news, only when sign in singapore says "DANISH CITIZENS NOT WELCOME" or sth 2 that effect, it hits the headline.
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Lots of things hit headlines too, like grandma being raped or singapore won tiger cup.
and? like "western diplomats get assaulted"?
but NOT
KKK killed a few blacks, stormfront is a western organization, or september 6, september 9 is when USA dropped atomic bombs on japan. etc etc. or
most race related problems occur in western nations, new study says (no need for study lah, it's oredi known fact, you go any western nation, there's 'white, black, brown, yellow," all kinds of problems. summore
there are "whites" and "coloreds" classification.
what kind of ppl does these stupid things? your demigods? westerners?
quote:
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however if it's millions of poor africans dying of genocide or famine or hunger, it's NOT international news. in other words, two danish embassy officials more important than millions of poor people.
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So why are these fanatics not helping the poor in africa but make so much noise over cartoons?
who's in a better position to help the poor in africa? the ones with more money, like for example (just examples), denmark, norway, france, uk, usa? or some of the nations you so like to malign, like sudan, afghanistan, pakistan? or even third parties like india, north korea, mongolia?
i need to noe from u which should help the poor in africa first & FOREMOST, for millions dying in africa, in sudan alone. poverty, famine, genocide, list goes on. what is more important is "two danish embassy torched" or two million poor dying or two hundred thousand INNOCENT killed in iraq.
i got no doubt all these are bad, my problem is with their priorities. why denmark become so important, but not the sensitivity of some one fifth of humanity.
quote:
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IN FACT, why don't we bring up the examples of iraq & afghanistan. how long since afghanistan has been attacked? we all believed the self-righteous americans would have "liberated" the afghans by now, and it would have been a "very prosperous", "safe" and "free" nation by now.
what is the ground reality over there in afghanistan?
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Much better than under the Taliban and they had free elections for the first time in their history and women actually get to vote and sit in parliament.
Rome wasn't built in one day bro.
EVEN under the Taliban, how many ppl got bombed or killed? and how about after the attack/invasion by usa/uk primarily, but other countries too, and for reasonable causes? but ended up with afghanistan being another of those violent, problem-ridden places.
voting and etc are not that important IF you don't get to live the next day. what is better? singapore with limited freedom? or india with so great freedom, the largest democracy on earth?
quote:
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How many people have been killed so far in iraq by western bombing, gunning etc? how many people have been killed by terrorists in iraq suicide bombings? May I ask what event UNLEASHED all these killings of innocents?
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Much less than what Saddam killed and much less than what the fanatics are bombing innocent people.
Why aen't these screamers help fight terrorists in Iraq but scream over cartoons? Thats the question we need to ask.
so you got any proof for that. bear in mind this one is 1.5 years old news, by now, how many more have died?
so let's hear from you? which one is more newsworthy? two danish embassies torched or the death toll in iraq? in your opinion.
[quote]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3962969.stm
Iraq death toll 'soared post-war'
Iraqis are now 58 times more likely to die a violent death, Lancet
Poor planning, air strikes by coalition forces and a "climate of violence" have led to more than 100,000 extra deaths in Iraq, scientists claim.
A study published by the Lancet says the risk of death by violence for civilians in Iraq is now 58 times higher than before the US-led invasion.
Unofficial estimates of civilian deaths had varied from 10,000 to over 37,000.
The Lancet admits the research is based on a small sample - under 1,000 homes - but says the findings are "convincing".
Responding to the Lancet article, a Pentagon spokesman defended coalition action in Iraq.
'Precise fashion'
"This conflict has been prosecuted in the most precise fashion of any conflict in the history of modern warfare", he said.
UK foreign secretary Jack Straw said his government would examine the findings "with very great care".
But he told BBC's Today that another independent estimate of civilian deaths was around 15,000.
The Iraq Body Count, a respected database run by a group of academics and peace activists, has put the number of reported civilian deaths at between 14,000-16,000.
HAVE YOUR SAY
It's going to be very hard for the US and UK authorities to ignore this report
John, Canada
Send us your comments
The Lancet published research by scientists from the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in the US city of Baltimore.
They gathered data on births and deaths since January 2002 from 33 clusters of 30 households each across Iraq.
They found the relative risk, the risk of deaths from any cause, was two-and-a-half times higher for Iraqi civilians after the 2003 invasion than in the preceding 15 months.
'Conservative assumptions'
That figure drops to one-and-a-half times higher if data from Falluja - the scene of repeated heavy fighting - is excluded.
Before the invasion, most people died as a result of heart attack, stroke and chronic illness, the report says, whereas after the invasion, "violence was the primary cause of death".
Violent deaths were mainly attributed to coalition forces - and most individuals reportedly killed were women and children.
Dr Les Roberts, who led the study, said: "Making conservative assumptions we think that about 100,000 excess deaths, or more, have happened since the 2003 invasion of Iraq.
"Violence accounted for most of the excess deaths and air strikes from coalition forces accounted for most of the violent deaths."
He said his team's work proved it was possible to compile data on public health "even during periods of extreme violence".
The sample included randomly selected households in Baghdad, Basra, Arbil, Najaf and Karbala, as well as Falluja.
Lancet editor Richard Horton said: "With the admitted benefit of hindsight and from a purely public health perspective, it is clear that whatever planning did take place was grievously in error."
Civilian toll estimates at 10/04
Iraq Body Count: 14-16,000
Brookings Inst: 10-27,000
UK foreign secretary: >10,000
People's Kifah >37,000
Lancet: >100,000
Mr Horton concluded: "For the sake of a country in crisis and for a people under daily threat of violence, the evidence we publish today must change heads as well as pierce hearts."
No official estimate
There is no official estimate of the number of Iraqi civilians who have died since the outbreak of the war in Iraq.
Human rights groups say the occupying powers have failed in their duty to catalogue the deaths, giving the impression that ordinary Iraqis' lives are worth less than those of their soldiers for whom detailed statistics are available.
However, the Pentagon spokesman said "there is no accurate way to validate the estimates of civilian casualties by this or any other organisation".
He added: The loss of any innocent lives is a tragedy, something Iraqi security forces and the Multi-National Force painstakingly work to avoid.
"Former regime elements and insurgents have made it a practice of using civilians as human shields, operating and conducting attacks against coalition forces from within areas inhabited by civilians."
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how about testing freedom of speech in western world? how about we suggest we kill an equal, strictly equal, not more nor less number of americans by dropping bombs in america? or a combination in america, uk, aussie etc? do you think freedom of speech will be supported?
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You call that free speech?
what do you call that? and what do you call free speech? freedom of speech, in its absolute sense, means freedom, no prohibition to speak anything. but of course, it does not exist. there was, is and will be curbs on this freedom, no matter where you're.
quote:
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you see freedom of speech only extends to what western countries like, not other countries.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why arethe imams and mullahs all over the world allowed to preach hatred of other religions? Is freedom of speecgh the monopoly of muslims alone?
for example? pat roberton? graham? pipes? oic. just one bit of wrong info, they aren't "imams and mullahs".
quote:
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oh wait, singapore is such a huge c0cksuc.ker of USa, it has naval bases in its OWN territory catering to US. why leh? USA coc.k tastes better? wah lau, knn cb. (the words in italics are jokes)
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And msians bow down to the arabs and worship them every day.
how did malaysia come in here. don't drag malaysia in here. it's not healthy discussion my fren.
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tmd, better just say it's another occasion to start antimuslim rhetoric.
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So what are you spewing? anti Singapore and anti west rhetoric?
antifraudulent rhetoric! ppl with fraudulent intentions need to beware. nothing against west per se, nothing against singapore per se (otherwise why post here?), nothing against islam per se, nothing against anybody or any groups of ppl per se.
judge the actions not the actors, is roughtly what i go by if you so badly need to know.
quote:
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in the end it boils down to bashing muslims innit? hahaha, dun worry sinkaporeans, dat time may not be far away when sikapore is squeezed by some giant neighbours? (btw, let's see if freedom of speech is also extended in this case. you know very well, what will happen if you say what should happen to singapore. but can you say that? no. why leh? coz freedom of speech doesn't even exist in singapore. ) nor in western countries. it's all limited freedom, in other words no freedom.
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You got it all wrong my friend, its not muslim bashing cos not all muslims are fanatics.
you got it all wrong my friend. muslim bashing is equivalent to maligning muslims, islam or such practices related to islam; it's in no way related to bashing terrorism or fanatics.
here the START of the problem was because jyllands-posten (sp?) printed a cartoon of prophet muhammad, not of some ordinary muslims, christians, jews or other religions.
and there they portrayed the revered prophet as a terrorist, and in many other despicable ways. -
alright from salman's posts it's obvious i need to stoop down to his level if i need to reply at ALL.
but i'll try my best to maintain decency when i reply to other forumers, so forumers plz take note of this k?
and? like "western diplomats get assaulted"?
Lots of things hit headlines too, like grandma being raped or singapore won tiger cup.
but NOT
KKK killed a few blacks, stormfront is a western organization, or august 6, august 9 is when USA dropped atomic bombs on japan. etc etc. or
most race related problems occur in western nations, new study says (no need for study lah, it's oredi known fact, you go any western nation, there's 'white, black, brown, yellow," all kinds of problems. summore
there are "whites" and "coloreds" classification.
what kind of ppl does these stupid things? your demigods? westerners?
who's in a better position to help the poor in africa? the ones with more money, like for example (just examples), denmark, norway, france, uk, usa? or some of the nations you so like to malign, like sudan, afghanistan, pakistan? or even third parties like india, north korea, mongolia?
So why are these fanatics not helping the poor in africa but make so much noise over cartoons?
i need to noe from u which should help the poor in africa first & FOREMOST, for millions dying in africa, in sudan alone. poverty, famine, genocide, list goes on. what is more important is "two danish embassy torched" or two million poor dying or two hundred thousand INNOCENT killed in iraq.
i got no doubt all these are bad, my problem is with their priorities. why denmark become so important, but not the sensitivity of some one fifth of humanity.
EVEN under the Taliban, how many ppl got bombed or killed? and how about after the attack/invasion by usa/uk primarily, but other countries too, and for reasonable causes? but ended up with afghanistan being another of those violent, problem-ridden places.
Much better than under the Taliban and they had free elections for the first time in their history and women actually get to vote and sit in parliament.
Rome wasn't built in one day bro.
voting and etc are not that important IF you don't get to live the next day. what is better? singapore with limited freedom? or india with so great freedom, the largest democracy on earth?
so you got any proof for that.
Much less than what Saddam killed and much less than what the fanatics are bombing innocent people.
Why aen't these screamers help fight terrorists in Iraq but scream over cartoons? Thats the question we need to ask.
so let's hear from you? which one is more newsworthy? two danish embassies torched or the death toll in iraq? in your opinion.You call that free speech?
what do you call that? and what do you call free speech? freedom of speech, in its absolute sense, means freedom, no prohibition to speak anything. but of course, it does not exist. there was, is and will be curbs on this freedom, no matter where you're.
for example? pat roberton? billy graham? daniel pipes? oic. just one bit of wrong info, they aren't "imams and mullahs".
Why arethe imams and mullahs all over the world allowed to preach hatred of other religions? Is freedom of speecgh the monopoly of muslims alone?And msians bow down to the arabs and worship them every day.
how did malaysia come in here. don't drag malaysia in here. it's not healthy discussion my fren.
antifraudulent rhetoric! ppl with fraudulent intentions need to beware. nothing against west per se, nothing against singapore per se (otherwise why post here?), nothing against islam per se, nothing against anybody or any groups of ppl per se.
So what are you spewing? anti Singapore and anti west rhetoric?
judge the actions not the actors, is roughly what i go by if you so badly need to know.
you got it all wrong my friend. muslim bashing is equivalent to maligning muslims, islam or such practices related to islam; it's in no way related to bashing terrorism or fanatics.
You got it all wrong my friend, its not muslim bashing cos not all muslims are fanatics.
here the START of the problem was because jyllands-posten (sp?) printed a cartoon of prophet muhammad, not of some ordinary muslims, christians, jews or other religions.
and there they portrayed the revered prophet as a terrorist, and in many other despicable ways. -
Originally posted by protonhybrid:
You already stooped to your lowest with your hatred and bigotry, how can a liar like you possibly stoop lower?
alright from salman's posts it's obvious i need to stoop down to his level if i need to reply at ALL.
KKK don't kill blacks anymore. But Islamic fanatics kill lots of innocent people everyday.
KKK killed a few blacks, stormfront is a western organization, or august 6, august 9 is when USA dropped atomic bombs on japan. etc etc. or
most race related problems occur in western nations, new study says (no need for study lah, it's oredi known fact, you go any western nation, there's 'white, black, brown, yellow," all kinds of problems. summore
there are "whites" and "coloreds" classification.
If these people are so free and have so much money to hold protests, why can't they put their energies into helping the poor in Africa?
who's in a better position to help the poor in africa? the ones with more money, like for example (just examples), denmark, norway, france, uk, usa? or some of the nations you so like to malign, like sudan, afghanistan, pakistan? or even third parties like india, north korea, mongolia?
What do you think allah is more interested in? Muslism helping teh poor or Muslims terrorising others?
I think people should use their energies to help the starving than cry over cartoons.
i need to noe from u which should help the poor in africa first & FOREMOST, for millions dying in africa, in sudan alone. poverty, famine, genocide, list goes on. what is more important is "two danish embassy torched" or two million poor dying or two hundred thousand INNOCENT killed in iraq.
i got no doubt all these are bad, my problem is with their priorities. why denmark become so important, but not the sensitivity of some one fifth of humanity.
millions died under the Taliban.
EVEN under the Taliban, how many ppl got bombed or killed? and how about after the attack/invasion by usa/uk primarily, but other countries too, and for reasonable causes? but ended up with afghanistan being another of those violent, problem-ridden places.
women were left to die w/o doctor treatments. women starev to detah cos they cannot work. Kid starve to death because their mothers cannot work. Men and women executed for all kinds of religious violations. Minorities tortured, raped, killed by Taliban.
It much better now. Thanks to Bush and the colaition of the brave.
Voting is important. Thats why millions of afghans risk their lives to comne out and voted.
voting and etc are not that important IF you don't get to live the next day. what is better? singapore with limited freedom? or india with so great freedom, the largest democracy on earth?
You think you are smarter than the Afghans?
I think both are newworthy. Thats why they get reported in news.
so you got any proof for that.
so let's hear from you? which one is more newsworthy? two danish embassies torched or the death toll in iraq? in your opinion.
Which one more news worthy? The Danish embassy bombing of course. Why? Because terrorists have been killing so many innocent people everyday, its not new anymore.
I asked first, don't run away.
what do you call that? and what do you call free speech? freedom of speech, in its absolute sense, means freedom, no prohibition to speak anything. but of course, it does not exist. there was, is and will be curbs on this freedom, no matter where you're.
never heard of these people. I do know that thousands of iams and mullahs made hate speeches all the time.
for example? pat roberton? billy graham? daniel pipes? oic. just one bit of wrong info, they aren't "imams and mullahs". -
protonhybrid,
So I guess that you feel that the offensive cartoons are a sufficient reason to riot and kill a few hundred infidels? This is in accordance to the "they did it first" theory and response, correct?
Let's do an acedemic exercise here shall we? I'll give you a scenario and you tell me what will be the reaction of the muslims ok?
1. An attempt to assassinate a very highly regarded and high profile muslim cleric/religious leader by a non muslim. The cleric survives.
2. The biggest, oldest and most beautiful mosque is demolished by a non muslim government despite protests and pressure from muslim leaders not to do so. There were no casualties during the demolishing.
3. An internationally famous author writes a book making a mockery of various aspects of the muslim community. ie saying that there is an order of clerics that conduct terrorist attacks around the world. The gist of the story is that Muhammud married a prostitute and that he wasn't a real prophet but was installed by the Sultan of Turkey.
So tell me all you muslims and supporters, what would be the reactions of the muslims around the world? -
After reading all these intellectual baffling accounts and statements made by some of the forumners .. i say we have only a few solutions.. Let me voice out my opinions.
1) Everyone smoke weed also known as Ganja or Marijuana.. and gets high.. everything o.k. Indians dub it the 'Peace Pipe'. Sit down n smoke up.
2)How do u explain and justify ur actions or statements when the opposite sides differ from ur views and completely un-open to solution and opposite views and come to a common understanding. I say KILL EM ALL. Only by total destruction and genocide of the opposite side will restore Peace and Prosperity throughout the globe.
3)Let the respective goverments sort it out.
4)Verbal and Commentery statements in the forum blasting each other out.
-
[quote]Originally posted by the Bear:
[b]here are a few to fan the flames
- This posting is edited as directed by MDA -
Oooh! Is that a mob forming outside your window? I will pray for you brother... -
Hi just here to offer my 2 cents
I say both sides are at fault-- the Western world being too insensitive and the Muslims way too sensitive. The cartoons protray the Prophet as a terrorist, which is something really unacceptable. But then the muslims retaliated by burning down embassies, killing, etc which is horrific to me.
I do question the motives of the attacks. Anti-western sentiment is prevalent in the muslims.. The establishment of Israel in the middle-east conflict, the US invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. The cartoons provide the radical muslims a convenient tool to stoke the flames to arouse further anti-western sentiment among the moderate muslims. You can see that the protestors attacked not only Danish embassies, but Norway, US and France. This should serve as a reminder to he western world the anti-western sentiment the most muslims have.
As I posted earlier, the Indonesian muslim students hated the US to the core.. shouting them devils, etc in the class. When I was in army, a naive guy in my section said he will always support the US in any situations since they brought peace and stability to the world. Straightaway, one muslim section mate of ours immediately stood up and shout vulgarities and even kicked the chair, etc. Eventually he was calmed down after my friend apologised. -
Just another point to add on.. I wonder how many muslims or the protestors have actually read the Quran or understand the verses.
I remember there is a Discovery channel documentary that shows the "mercy killing" practise which took place in a village in Pakistan. The journalist went together with an interpretor who was quite well-versed in the Quran. In the documentary, there was a married woman whose eyes were gorged out and her right leg was beaten til crippled. Worse, her nose was chopped into half..
All these because a stranger asked her for directions one day on the street and her husband saw it. So thinking it was infidelity, the husband actually tried to "mercifully kill" her and according to him in the interview, he actually felt good becasue he had done a good deed. Thankfully, the victim escaped and wanted to press charges against her husband for causing grevious hurt.
To cut a long story short, the husband justified mercy killing because he said it was mentioned in the Quran. When the journalist asked him which verse was it, the husband could not answer and merely replied it was the village chief who told him. He himself did not even have the Quran. So when they asked the village chief, he showed them the Quran but even he himself could not answer which verse was it. He merely replied it was his father who taught him this "mercy killing" culture. In the end, the husband was found guilty of causing grevious hurt and was sentenced to over 10 years jail. He did not feel anything after the verdict, except commenting that he should be punished because he could not managed to kill his wife.
In poor villages, most muslims could not afford to go to religious schools to learn about the Quran, etc. I guess that's why terrorism is so widespread in such places. Most of the suicide bombers were misled by false interpretations into thinking suicide bombing is a very sacred thing and that the jihad must be waged against the "white infidels". I myself have not read the Quran (I am not a muslim), but I don't believe the Quran actually encouraged the muslim followers to kill innocent western people.
And of course, the western countries also have a fondness of stereotyping. Just like stereotyping Singapore as a "fine" country, China as a "bunch of wankers", the mindless attacks on the embassies further prove their stereotyping of the muslims and their religion is "terrosist-based", just like what Salman is trying to tell us. -
Actually, if you note, there are many Muslims who do go to madrasahs, whether in Singapore, Malaysia or Indonesia. They became starting point for extremism because its the extremists who run the schools.
Thats why, countries like Pakistan are checking their madrasahs and getting rid of religious extremism. -
you said this happened in when you were in the army ? ...Originally posted by Erwin_Rommel:Hi just here to offer my 2 cents
I say both sides are at fault-- the Western world being too insensitive and the Muslims way too sensitive. The cartoons protray the Prophet as a terrorist, which is something really unacceptable. But then the muslims retaliated by burning down embassies, killing, etc which is horrific to me.
I do question the motives of the attacks. Anti-western sentiment is prevalent in the muslims.. The establishment of Israel in the middle-east conflict, the US invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. The cartoons provide the radical muslims a convenient tool to stoke the flames to arouse further anti-western sentiment among the moderate muslims. You can see that the protestors attacked not only Danish embassies, but Norway, US and France. This should serve as a reminder to he western world the anti-western sentiment the most muslims have.
As I posted earlier, the Indonesian muslim students hated the US to the core.. shouting them devils, etc in the class. When I was in army, a naive guy in my section said he will always support the US in any situations since they brought peace and stability to the world. Straightaway, one muslim section mate of ours immediately stood up and shout vulgarities and even kicked the chair, etc. Eventually he was calmed down after my friend apologised.
doesn't it send a chill down your spine ? Your friend had to apologise before the chap calmed down ? ... for what ? what did he do wrong ? for having personal opinions different from his ?
it's not about whether that "naive" guy was right or wrong in his opinions, but whether he can have his own opinions, your muslim section mate need to understand that, kicking the chair, shouting vulgarities etc is not the way to go, perhaps he is the naive one, if he thinks that making a lot of noise like this can change the opinion of others, and this issue is at the core of the disconnect between the West and the Muslim world right now ...
since we're bordering on so many "taboo" subjects here ... let's go on further ...
do you trust that noise maker to fight for Singapore, if the shit ever hits the fan ? when our most potential enemies become our real ones, and they play it down and dirty, invoking the race and religion card, do you trust him to fight for the Flag, fight for Singapore ? or do you think he will answer to a larger brotherhood ?
Let's be open here, to me, what frightens me are not secretive terrorists infiltrating into our society and causing mayhem, planting a few bombs etc. it's young men like that chap brainwashed into intolerant and aggressive persons, our society can stand up to a few bombs and terrorists, we did that during confrontasi before remember, but we cannot survive if our national interests are subverted from within ...
to those thinking Muslim bros reading this in this forum: no, i'm not trying to incite anything over here, but these are real issues that confront us and our security, and pretending it doesn't exist and sweeping it underneath the carpet would never change the present reality. Singapore's society is still very much influenced by external forces, cos we're so intertwined to the outside world. For situations like this, that's where you guys come in, as I've said earlier, it is up to you guys to convince everyone that you guys are equal stakeholders in the society, ready to defend it, ready to die for it. We're still quite a long way away from making this issue go away, we are not 100% comfortable with each other, yet ... and recent external events seemed to be pushing us backwards, but keep in mind that this is a fight that we have to win ... for there is no other way ... -
Do you know that not a single Muslim is being posted to sensitive units in army? I was in ammunition base last time that's why I know. Enough said.
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This statement or analogy is seriously flawed.Catholics like other Christians do not worship Mary. Worship is only reserved for God.
"It is tantamount to telling a Catholic to make a choice in celebrating their faith in worshipping Mother Mary or Jesus. "
Will you agree that atleast a Catholic is allowed to make the choice and if his choice is jesus rather than Mother Mary,he can renounce being a Catholic and becomming a protestant or a methodist or even a muslim.
However I'm not going into a theological debate on the role Catholics attribute to Mary here.
I feel as another forumer has mentioned, the problem is with extreme sects. I have great respect and admiration for the Sufis. I believe if they were the majority,things would be more peaceful in the Islamic world.
As for who produces more terrorists, imho man will use any reason for violent or bad behaviour, if its not religion, it'll be race, if its not race it'll be class...and the list goes on. -
Dont anyhow say its he starting point for extremists. You got no knowledge in this, then don't comment.Originally posted by laurence82:Actually, if you note, there are many Muslims who do go to madrasahs, whether in Singapore, Malaysia or Indonesia. They became starting point for extremism because its the extremists who run the schools.
Thats why, countries like Pakistan are checking their madrasahs and getting rid of religious extremism. -
Now, who's the liar in the thread? After reading all your posts, I found your knowledge of Islam very very limited. If you don't know anything, please don't anyhow give info that can mislead other forumers. Thank you.Originally posted by Salman:You already stooped to your lowest with your hatred and bigotry, how can a liar like you possibly stoop lower? -
You make such sweeping statements. trying to help PAP Racial quota policy by fanning the fires is it?Originally posted by laurence82:Actually, if you note, there are many Muslims who do go to madrasahs, whether in Singapore, Malaysia or Indonesia. They became starting point for extremism because its the extremists who run the schools. -
Perhaps you should clarify or correct that statement by restating that :Originally posted by laurence82:Actually, if you note, there are many Muslims who do go to madrasahs, whether in Singapore, Malaysia or Indonesia. They became starting point for extremism because its the extremists who run the schools.
Thats why, countries like Pakistan are checking their madrasahs and getting rid of religious extremism.
the Malaysian, Indonesian and Singapore Governments have found that UNREGISTERED and UNAUTHORISED madrasahs are operated by UNREGISTERED and UNAUTHORISED Religious Teachers - with limited knowledge of Islam and are spouting their own personal interpretations and understanding of the Religion - which are shallow and extremist in nature.
Such UNREGISTERED and UNAUTHORISED Religious Teachers have no or little credentials from any authorised institute, and in the vast rural settings of a big country, they easily escape attention.
These Religious Teachers easily gain the respect and support of the small and unsophisticated rural communities that are not exposed to the politics of the world events; and their simple minds can be easily manipulated.
Those who do not have the faculty of 'critical thinking' will easily become a victim of such Religious Teacher with their own set agenda.
These events have now surfaced and have been identified, while the respective Governments are working out strategies to monitor, register, or shut-down such Madrasahs that are spouting deviant teachings of Islam central theme.
Such governmental efforts have spread across from South-east Asia to Pakistan, and even to Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan, Kuwait, and UAE.