Cartoon of Mohammad creates International Row.
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well, i think the Muslims ought to be protesting against something else... specifically THIS:
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Tehran, Iran, Jan. 07 – An Iranian court has sentenced a teenage rape victim to death by hanging after she weepingly confessed that she had unintentionally killed a man who had tried to rape both her and her niece.
The state-run daily Etemaad reported on Saturday that 18-year-old Nazanin confessed to stabbing one of three men who had attacked the pair along with their boyfriends while they were spending some time in a park west of the Iranian capital in March 2005.
Nazanin, who was 17 years old at the time of the incident, said that after the three men started to throw stones at them, the two girlsÂ’ boyfriends quickly escaped on their motorbikes leaving the pair helpless.
She described how the three men pushed her and her 16-year-old niece Somayeh onto the ground and tried to rape them, and said that she took out a knife from her pocket and stabbed one of the men in the hand.
As the girls tried to escape, the men once again attacked them, and at this point, Nazanin said, she stabbed one of the men in the chest. The teenage girl, however, broke down in tears in court as she explained that she had no intention of killing the man but was merely defending herself and her younger niece from rape, the report said.
The court, however, issued on Tuesday a sentence for Nazanin to be hanged to death.
Last week, a court in the city of Rasht, northern Iran, sentenced Delara Darabi to death by hanging charged with murder when she was 17 years old. Darabi has denied the charges.
In August 2004, Iran’s Islamic penal system sentenced a 16-year-old girl, Atefeh Rajabi, to death after a sham trial, in which she was accused of committing “acts incompatible with chastity”.
The teenage victim had no access to a lawyer at any stage and efforts by her family to retain one were to no avail. Atefeh personally defended herself and told the religious judge that he should punish those who force women into adultery, not the victims. She was eventually hanged in public in the northern town of Neka.
(source: ShoutWire: Iran Focus News) -
My goodness...speechless..
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Dude, i mean some madrasashs.Originally posted by Calvin86:You make such sweeping statements. trying to help PAP Racial quota policy by fanning the fires is it?
It was in reply to earlier post that Muslims dont have the chance to go to madrasashs. Whats going on inside, even registered ones, is up to the individual government to check.
What sweeping statement and what 'helping racial quota by fanning the fires'? Huh?
And to add, not all Muslims attend madrasash for Quran classes. In places like Malaysia or Indonesia, village chief or a learned Muslim in remote villages take up the role of teaching small classes. -
This is madness!
Can you imagine Singapore being part of a Caliphate as JI want it? -
Originally posted by the Bear:
Ironically and incredibly, the self-defence of her loved ones and herself are not taken into account. Iranian syriah and religious laws are simply too skewed to be in any real position to defend the innocent.
well, i think the Muslims ought to be protesting against something else... specifically THIS:
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Tehran, Iran, Jan. 07 – [b]An Iranian court has sentenced a teenage rape victim to death by hanging after she weepingly confessed that she had unintentionally killed a man who had tried to rape both her and her niece.
The state-run daily Etemaad reported on Saturday that 18-year-old Nazanin confessed to stabbing one of three men who had attacked the pair along with their boyfriends while they were spending some time in a park west of the Iranian capital in March 2005.
Nazanin, who was 17 years old at the time of the incident, said that after the three men started to throw stones at them, the two girlsÂ’ boyfriends quickly escaped on their motorbikes leaving the pair helpless.
She described how the three men pushed her and her 16-year-old niece Somayeh onto the ground and tried to rape them, and said that she took out a knife from her pocket and stabbed one of the men in the hand.
As the girls tried to escape, the men once again attacked them, and at this point, Nazanin said, she stabbed one of the men in the chest. The teenage girl, however, broke down in tears in court as she explained that she had no intention of killing the man but was merely defending herself and her younger niece from rape, the report said.
The court, however, issued on Tuesday a sentence for Nazanin to be hanged to death.
Last week, a court in the city of Rasht, northern Iran, sentenced Delara Darabi to death by hanging charged with murder when she was 17 years old. Darabi has denied the charges.
In August 2004, Iran’s Islamic penal system sentenced a 16-year-old girl, Atefeh Rajabi, to death after a sham trial, in which she was accused of committing “acts incompatible with chastity”.
The teenage victim had no access to a lawyer at any stage and efforts by her family to retain one were to no avail. Atefeh personally defended herself and told the religious judge that he should punish those who force women into adultery, not the victims. She was eventually hanged in public in the northern town of Neka.
(source: ShoutWire: Iran Focus News)[/b]
This reminds me of those 'mercy' and 'honour' MURDERS by family members in Pakistan. -
Not only in pakistan but in west bank, egypt, even in the west, such honour killings are getting common.
What honour is there is such barbaric behaviors? -
WHAT! she got a death sentence for trying to defend herself!
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I hope that your personal bigotted views is not the motivating factor in your present agenda to fan ridicule towards one of the few respectable religions in the History of Mankind.Originally posted by Salman:Not only in pakistan but in west bank, egypt, even in the west, such honour killings are getting common.
What honour is there is such barbaric behaviors?
Such violence towards women is not condone by any religions, and neither does Islam encourage or approve such violence in any form.
This is part of the ethnic socio-cultural practices throughout the ages in the various backward societies that spread from the Middle-east to Asia Minor.
An extract of an article published by Muslim Women's League
An Islamic Perspective on Violence Against Women :
While women in many parts of the world have made advances in areas previously closed to them, the problem of violence against women remains pervasive. Unfortunately, this violence takes many forms and occurs across national, cultural, racial, and religious borders.
Islam condemns all forms of violence against women. The basic Islamic premise of equality between women and men cannot be achieved so long as violence against women persists.
Islam requires that husbands treat their wives with respect and it prohibits any form of physical or emotional abuse. The Quran requires that spouses treat each other with love and mercy. (Quran 30:21). Moreover, the Quran repeatedly warns against the use of injurious statements by a husband against his wife. (Quran 58:2-4).
Rape, unfortunately, remains a common form of violence against women. In addition, the woman is often blamed for being the victim of rape. Islam views rape as a violent crime against the victim, against society, and against God.
The perpetrator has committed a crime and hence is morally and legally responsible.
The victim is an unwilling partner in the sex act and thus bears neither blame nor stigma.
To either ostracize or condemn the victim because she was compelled to engage in sexual intercourse is against the laws of Islam as the victim was an unwilling, and therefore, a blameless participant.
Female genital mutilation, another form of violence against women, has no basis in Islam. Rather, it is a cultural practice which must be eliminated through education and the empowerment of women.
Islam's mandate of equality between women and men necessitates that all forms of violence against women be eradicated, for so long as women suffer abuses, women cannot achieve their full potential as free and equal members of society. -
Originally posted by the Bear:
Those who still believe in death penalty would have made the Nazis proud.
well, i think the Muslims ought to be protesting against something else... specifically THIS:
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Tehran, Iran, Jan. 07 – [b]An Iranian court has sentenced a teenage rape victim to death by hanging after she weepingly confessed that she had unintentionally killed a man who had tried to rape both her and her niece.
The state-run daily Etemaad reported on Saturday that 18-year-old Nazanin confessed to stabbing one of three men who had attacked the pair along with their boyfriends while they were spending some time in a park west of the Iranian capital in March 2005.
Nazanin, who was 17 years old at the time of the incident, said that after the three men started to throw stones at them, the two girlsÂ’ boyfriends quickly escaped on their motorbikes leaving the pair helpless.
She described how the three men pushed her and her 16-year-old niece Somayeh onto the ground and tried to rape them, and said that she took out a knife from her pocket and stabbed one of the men in the hand.
As the girls tried to escape, the men once again attacked them, and at this point, Nazanin said, she stabbed one of the men in the chest. The teenage girl, however, broke down in tears in court as she explained that she had no intention of killing the man but was merely defending herself and her younger niece from rape, the report said.
The court, however, issued on Tuesday a sentence for Nazanin to be hanged to death.
Last week, a court in the city of Rasht, northern Iran, sentenced Delara Darabi to death by hanging charged with murder when she was 17 years old. Darabi has denied the charges.
In August 2004, Iran’s Islamic penal system sentenced a 16-year-old girl, Atefeh Rajabi, to death after a sham trial, in which she was accused of committing “acts incompatible with chastity”.
The teenage victim had no access to a lawyer at any stage and efforts by her family to retain one were to no avail. Atefeh personally defended herself and told the religious judge that he should punish those who force women into adultery, not the victims. She was eventually hanged in public in the northern town of Neka.
(source: ShoutWire: Iran Focus News)[/b]
Such punishment goes directly against the grain of civil liberty. -
Danish gove seems asking for more trouble.
Those cartoons' to be uesd in Danish book'
Read 13.02.2006 TODAY hard copy,also cartoons will be dispalyed
in Royal Library. -
Atobe, that's where I think you are wrong. Did you read my earlier post? How many muslims actually read or understand the Quran in the poor rural areas? Why is "mercy killing" still practised in the rural areas of Pakistan, Iran, etc? Simply because their interpretation of the Quran is wrong. To think some muslim men actually praised Allah after brutally murdering their loved ones.
Islam is a peaceful, non-violent religion. But the religion is interpreted into a twisted, violent way that promotes suicide bombings against the west, etc in the poor, rural regions where the people are generally uneducated. No wonder it is a place for terrorism to breed. -
*bravo to iran...* whats next.. hanging of old men trying to defend themselves against robbers..
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An educational publisher announced the 12 cartoons would be used as a teaching aid in Danish schools while a spokeswoman for the Royal Library said they would probably end up in a museum.
Is Denmark looking for more troubles?
Will the offfensive cartoons be displayed in
The Museum of Danish Cartoon Art? -
Originally posted by Erwin_Rommel:
What they did may be wrong or barbaric to you but not to them. Its is just their ancient culture and you need to respect and not judge them based on your value system as a human being.
Atobe, that's where I think you are wrong. Did you read my earlier post? How many muslims actually read or understand the Quran in the poor rural areas? Why is "mercy killing" still practised in the rural areas of Pakistan, Iran, etc? Simply because their interpretation of the Quran is wrong. To think some muslim men actually praised Allah after brutally murdering their loved ones.
And who are you to tell muslims what islam is and isn't supposed to be? You think you can be more islamic than a Muslim?
Islam is a peaceful, non-violent religion. But the religion is interpreted into a twisted, violent way that promotes suicide bombings against the west, etc in the poor, rural regions where the people are generally uneducated. No wonder it is a place for terrorism to breed.
They have their own definition of peace and you have no right to impose your definition of peace to them. If peace means a terrorist infested breeding ground for more terrorists, so be it. -
''we cannot apologise for publishing the drawings''Editor Carsten Juste,Interview by Pierre Collignon, published on the 5th of February 2006
Thats the problem.The Danish paper did not want to say sorry.'We won't apologise for publishing the cartoons, because we have the right to do so. That's why we've said that if people feel insulted, we regret it. Insulting people was never on our agenda. But there's absolutely no way we will apologise for publishing the cartoons. If we apologise, then we let down the many generations who have fought for freedom of expression and other civil rights.'
-----Jyllands-Posten Editor-in-chief Carsten Juste on Interview by JOHN HANSEN, published on the 18th of December 2005.
more stories
2.At last,they said HALF sorry.Is it too late??-----The editor's dilemma,
Interview by Pierre Collignon, published on the 5th of February 2006In a statement addressed to the: `Honourable fellow citizens of the Muslim world' - the statement now acknowledged that the drawings, despite not being in conflict with Danish law, had 'indisputably' offended many Muslims, 'for which we must apologise'.
With the following attitudes,i can gurantee u more troubles are
editor-in-chief Carsten Juste himself characterizes use of the word `apology' as a `semantic manoeuvre' and emphasises that his newspaper's position in the Mohammed dispute remains the same as always:
`Part one is that we maintain our freedom of expression. We will never apologise for that. Therefore we cannot apologise for publishing the drawings. Part two is that we regret offending the many Muslims who took offence. What's new is that we have now simply added an apology to part two.'
comingSome imams have demanded not just an apology, but an undertaking that Jyllands-Posten will not publish drawings of the Prophet again. Can you promise that?
`No, I can definitely not promise not to do it again. It could be that we won't do it again, but we can't make that a promise. If we did, we would be curbing freedom of expression.'
But will you do it again?
`I have already said that we will take a break, but of course I cannot rule out that if a situation comes along where it seems relevant to do it, then we must do it.'
What is today's editorial line in relation to satirical drawings of Islam and the prophet Mohammed in Jyllands-Posten?
`The editorial policy is that we will not rule out the possibility of publishing drawings of Mohammed in a relevant context. One can see that the drawing of Mohammed with a bomb in his turban particularly sticks in their caw. We would be very unlikely to publish a drawing like that.'
Why not?
`Because so many people were offended by that one drawing in particular. That tells us that if that really is the case, then we have ethical standards ordering us to be cautious.' -
I think the muslims in the middle east still don't understand the concept of freedom of expression. i don't care if they throw racist comments at each other as long as they don't go around hurting people
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Originally posted by Erwin_Rommel:
How can I not read your posts before engaging you in an exchange of ideas ?
Atobe, that's where I think you are wrong. Did you read my earlier post? How many muslims actually read or understand the Quran in the poor rural areas? Why is "mercy killing" still practised in the rural areas of Pakistan, Iran, etc? Simply because their interpretation of the Quran is wrong. To think some muslim men actually praised Allah after brutally murdering their loved ones.
Islam is a peaceful, non-violent religion. But the religion is interpreted into a twisted, violent way that promotes suicide bombings against the west, etc in the poor, rural regions where the people are generally uneducated. No wonder it is a place for terrorism to breed.
Seriously, how many rural folks in any country can even read or write in the first place ?
If no one can read or write, will they know the difference between the written form of arabic or sanskrit style ?
Will the simple mind of a peasant be taken advantage of by unscrupulous and ambitious persons ?
However, regardless of race or ethnicity, there is an in-born sense of humanity whether the person is living in a rural or urban settings, and regardless of the person being able to read or write.
This sense of humanity will form the basis of one's values towards one's self-worth, one's family, friends, and the community at large.
If the religion is interpreted into a twisted and violent way, it is only the gullible, the "no brainers" and those without any sense of humanity who will accept and turn to terrorism.
Should the entire rural community be brushed as if every person living in the rural areas are of the same lot ?
"Mercy Killings" are part of values and practices from the social, cultural and tribal characteristcs of a country, or community, or race or ethnicity - and should not be mixed up as religious values and practises.
We should also be concious that religions are more often adopted by countries that trade with the place where the respective religions originate.
In all probability, religious beliefs may not necessarily change cultural, social or political values that are part of the historical character of the adoptive country, or community, or race, or ethnicity.? -
Originally posted by Salman:
Original post by Erwin_Rommel:
Atobe, that's where I think you are wrong. Did you read my earlier post? How many muslims actually read or understand the Quran in the poor rural areas? Why is "mercy killing" still practised in the rural areas of Pakistan, Iran, etc? Simply because their interpretation of the Quran is wrong. To think some muslim men actually praised Allah after brutally murdering their loved ones.
Reply by Salman:
What they did may be wrong or barbaric to you but not to them. Its is just their ancient culture and you need to respect and not judge them based on your value system as a human being.Original post by Erwin_Rommel:
Did the "no brainer" leopard change its spots ? .
Islam is a peaceful, non-violent religion. But the religion is interpreted into a twisted, violent way that promotes suicide bombings against the west, etc in the poor, rural regions where the people are generally uneducated. No wonder it is a place for terrorism to breed.
Reply by Salman:
And who are you to tell muslims what islam is and isn't supposed to be? You think you can be more islamic than a Muslim?
They have their own definition of peace and you have no right to impose your definition of peace to them. If peace means a terrorist infested breeding ground for more terrorists, so be it.
Are you now defending the Muslims, whom you have been demonising in all your posts pertaining to Muslims ? .
Have you awaken to the accusation of your bigotted attitude towards Islam in particular and Muslims in general ? .
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Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons
Gwladys Fouché
Monday February 6, 2006
Jyllands-Posten, the Danish newspaper that first published the cartoons of the prophet Muhammad that have caused a storm of protest throughout the Islamic world, refused to run drawings lampooning Jesus Christ, it has emerged today.
The Danish daily turned down the cartoons of Christ three years ago, on the grounds that they could be offensive to readers and were not funny.
In April 2003, Danish illustrator Christoffer Zieler submitted a series of unsolicited cartoons dealing with the resurrection of Christ to Jyllands-Posten.
Zieler received an email back from the paper's Sunday editor, Jens Kaiser, which said: "I don't think Jyllands-Posten's readers will enjoy the drawings. As a matter of fact, I think that they will provoke an outcry. Therefore, I will not use them."
The illustrator said: "I see the cartoons as an innocent joke, of the type that my Christian grandfather would enjoy."
"I showed them to a few pastors and they thought they were funny."
But the Jyllands-Posten editor in question, Mr Kaiser, said that the case was "ridiculous to bring forward now. It has nothing to do with the Muhammad cartoons.
"In the Muhammad drawings case, we asked the illustrators to do it. I did not ask for these cartoons. That's the difference," he said.
"The illustrator thought his cartoons were funny. I did not think so. It would offend some readers, not much but some."
The decision smacks of "double-standards", said Ahmed Akkari, spokesman for the Danish-based European Committee for Prophet Honouring, the umbrella group that represents 27 Muslim organisations that are campaigning for a full apology from Jyllands-Posten.
"How can Jyllands-Posten distinguish the two cases? Surely they must understand," Mr Akkari added.
Meanwhile, the editor of a Malaysian newspaper resigned over the weekend after printing one of the Muhammad cartoons that have unleashed a storm of protest across the Islamic world.
Malaysia's Sunday Tribune, based in the remote state of Sarawak, on Borneo island, ran one of the Danish cartoons on Saturday. It is unclear which one of the 12 drawings was reprinted.
Printed on page 12 of the paper, the cartoon illustrated an article about the lack of impact of the controversy in Malaysia, a country with a majority Muslim population.
The newspaper apologised and expressed "profound regret over the unauthorised publication", in a front page statement on Sunday.
"Our internal inquiry revealed that the editor on duty, who was responsible for the same publication, had done it all alone by himself without authority in compliance with the prescribed procedures as required for such news," the statement said.
The editor, who has not been named, regretted his mistake, apologised and tendered his resignation, according to the statement.
(The Guardian, http://media.guardian.co.uk/presspublishing/story/0,,1703498,00.html) -
How does peace work if not everyone shares the same definition of peace? I can see the muslim definition of peace has violent repercussions. Does a muslim consider a violent demonstration peaceful as long no lives is lost, or it is considered peaceful if a collection of muslims will be rewarded with virgins..Originally posted by Salman:And who are you to tell muslims what islam is and isn't supposed to be? You think you can be more islamic than a Muslim?
They have their own definition of peace and you have no right to impose your definition of peace to them. If peace means a terrorist infested breeding ground for more terrorists, so be it. -
Dear Atobe, you mentioned "In all probability, religious beliefs may not necessarily change cultural, social or political values that are part of the historical character of the adoptive country, or community, or race, or ethnicity.?"Originally posted by Atobe:How can I not read your posts before engaging you in an exchange of ideas ?
Seriously, how many rural folks in any country can even read or write in the first place ?
If no one can read or write, will they know the difference between the written form of arabic or sanskrit style ?
Will the simple mind of a peasant be taken advantage of by unscrupulous and ambitious persons ?
However, regardless of race or ethnicity, there is an in-born sense of humanity whether the person is living in a rural or urban settings, and regardless of the person being able to read or write.
This sense of humanity will form the basis of one's values towards one's self-worth, one's family, friends, and the community at large.
If the religion is interpreted into a twisted and violent way, it is only the gullible, the "no brainers" and those without any sense of humanity who will accept and turn to terrorism.
Should the entire rural community be brushed as if every person living in the rural areas are of the same lot ?
"Mercy Killings" are part of values and practices from the social, cultural and tribal characteristcs of a country, or community, or race or ethnicity - and should not be mixed up as religious values and practises.
We should also be concious that religions are more often adopted by countries that trade with the place where the respective religions originate.
In all probability, religious beliefs may not necessarily change cultural, social or political values that are part of the historical character of the adoptive country, or community, or race, or ethnicity.?
This is where I will strongly diagree. Who will not accede the message from the God if you believe in one? there should be no such thing as cultural, social or political values that we could not change , is whethere you WANT to change it or not? So, if these people are going to go around killing ppl, are we going to accept these fact and give lame excuses of such?
How could one accept this. You must FIGHT for what you believe, if not this is not religion. You even fight the evil in you if u must to follow the words of God. If people around you are doing the wrong thing in the name of your own religion, by NOT telling them, by NOT voicing out to them , and by NO EFFORT of CHANGING them, I believe you are already wrong!!! Simple, because you dont live your life for your religion. You wont wan to spread the word of God to these people if they are astray.
In conclusion, if cultural,social or political values may not he change by the principle in the religion, it would be failure of mankind in the name of their religion, both, those righteous and those who aren't. And it all falls back to the fundamental of the religion, which is to SPREAD the TRUTH , which includes to FIGHT for the truth, and not keep quiet and give meer excuses.
I do agree with certain points that you give in all the posts by you, however, you know it clearly in your heart, denial can resolve anything. Denying an act which was committed, denying the "faith" of certain brethen and denying the terrorism that some had done to innocent people it is wrong. Scold them, change them, forced them if you must because they are your so call brethens because it is your responsibility to bring those lost sheep back. NO ONE ELSE will do it, if u guys who are righteous dont make the first move.
Just my thoughts, and be reminded, we must learn to forgive and love. Forgive is an easy word to say, but it takes 1000 guts to do so. For me, i am a Christian to be honest, and we share the old testament. I do admire my pope who really still love a person who tries to murder him and his love is to everyone, even to those who scorned and insulted him. Same goes with Mother Thressa, she is so damnn poor. But she care to sacrifice her life for others. Not to say you are from Afghanistan, Pakistan you cant do charity..yes you are poor , but that doest stop you in doing charity. Words sometimes are useless if they are not put into action. You can quote 1000 beautiful quotations, however, if no action is done, is merely NOTHING. -
Peace comes by submission, submission to Allah. That is the only way to peace.Originally posted by geodome:How does peace work if not everyone shares the same definition of peace? I can see the muslim definition of peace has violent repercussions. Does a muslim consider a violent demonstration peaceful as long no lives is lost, or it is considered peaceful if a collection of muslims will be rewarded with virgins..
No submission, no peace. -
Originally posted by AMD2004:
Well said my Christian friend.
Just my thoughts, and be reminded, we must learn to forgive and love. Forgive is an easy word to say, but it takes 1000 guts to do so. For me, i am a Christian to be honest, and we share the old testament. I do admire my pope who really still love a person who tries to murder him and his love is to everyone, even to those who scorned and insulted him. Same goes with Mother Thressa, she is so damnn poor. But she care to sacrifice her life for others. Not to say you are from Afghanistan, Pakistan you cant do charity..yes you are poor , but that doest stop you in doing charity. Words sometimes are useless if they are not put into action. You can quote 1000 beautiful quotations, however, if no action is done, is merely NOTHING.
You can quote all the nice and sweet verses all you want, but if you act the contrary, whats the point?
Don't listen to what people say, look at what they are doing. Thats the best. -
Why Allah and not Artemis? I think the latter is a more peace-loving deity. Her worshippers suffered more humiliation than any other faiths.Originally posted by Salman:Peace comes by submission, submission to Allah. That is the only way to peace.
No submission, no peace. -
Submission to God
If I'm not wrong.Islam means submission to God.If those Mulsim protesters can't even follow the human law,how can they be submission to God?