GST to be raised to 7%
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Hehe you talking about the PAP? Didn't Jaya just did all of the above? No trying to be cheeky with one-liners but the similarities are too great.Originally posted by Mat Toro:What can we see here?
Its is clear that the anti govt crowd is not a tolerant lot. They cannot respect opposing views. They are not interested in a debate of ideas but simply condemn and put down people who hold divergent views. They even make claims that I cannot manage my company w/o any basis at all.
I am convinced that these people can never compete in the arena of ideas. Thats why they need to resort to such tactics. Same like Chee soon Juan. -
What exactly did Jaya said? Perhaps you can tell us.
Are you ready for rational and civilised discussion? -
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=268768Originally posted by Mat Toro:What exactly did Jaya said? Perhaps you can tell us.
Are you ready for rational and civilised discussion?
Yep, discussions for greater good of Singapore is always welcomed, not for the greater good for any one political party.
The topic should be Majulah Singapura... not angkat bola PAP. -
yes indeed, for the good of singapore sir.
be rational and civilsed please, its much better for everyone on this forum. -
Ah, hope you are not implying that I came in with the intention to be irrational and uncivilised?Originally posted by Mat Toro:yes indeed, for the good of singapore sir.
be rational and civilsed please, its much better for everyone on this forum.
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No sir, lets all be rational or this forum will turn into junk and we will all come out of it worst.
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Haha, we can start by being equals... no sirs please sir!Originally posted by Mat Toro:No sir, lets all be rational or this forum will turn into junk and we will all come out of it worst.
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sir doesn't mean unequal, it means respect.
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Ok out for lunch now! It's lunchtime in Bangkok (I'm travelling around the SEA region), please to meet you sir!Originally posted by Mat Toro:sir doesn't mean unequal, it means respect.
I'm always interested in a nice discussion, with no name calling... unless someone starts first (read Gazelle). -
Why not? Bring it on.Originally posted by Mat Toro:Are you ready for rational and civilised debate? -
Sure.
what is your altenative to GST? Increase personal and corporate tax.
No depleting of reserves please. -
Cut down on high rank officials' pays. Cut down on the number of high rank officials.Originally posted by Mat Toro:Sure.
what is your altenative to GST? Increase personal and corporate tax.
No depleting of reserves please. -
How much can that raise? more than GST?
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I do not disagree with GST. It has its advantages.Originally posted by Mat Toro:Sure.
what is your altenative to GST? Increase personal and corporate tax.
No depleting of reserves please.
However, is an increase justified?
I said: Competitive such that lower corporate taxes will encourage investments and entrepreneurship? I do not disagree with that. However, in what way does that increase the average joe's salary? How does it reduce the gini coefficient?
You said: Was raising the GST suppose to help the poor?
Thats may be part of the soultion because the rich will get taxed more with GST and these will be used for subsidies for the poor.
The totality of it is, everybody benefits, especially the poor.
I replied: That was what LHL said. Till date, we still have not seen any concrete plans on how it helps the poor, except only saying that GST revenue will "go into workfare". If they were really sincere, then this notion should have been broached during the GST debate in parliament a while back.
Have you seen my post on workfare? -
Originally posted by Rock^Star:
When there are investments and entrepreneurship, won't that create jobs?
I do not disagree with GST. It has its advantages.
However, is an increase justified?
I said: Competitive such that lower corporate taxes will encourage investments and entrepreneurship? I do not disagree with that. However, in what way does that increase the average joe's salary? How does it reduce the gini coefficient?
Any wonder why our salaries are increasing?
GST is GST, workfare is workfare.
I replied: That was what LHL said. Till date, we still have not seen any concrete plans on how it helps the poor, except only saying that GST revenue will "go into workfare". If they were really sincere, then this notion should have been broached during the GST debate in parliament a while back.
How do we fund workfare? are the rich entitled to workfare?
No sir, give us your salient points please.
[u]Have you seen my post on workfare?
Are you against workfare? -
You said I don't know business w/o any basis at all. And you directly clashed with my field of expertise which is business consulting. So how do you feel when I hit back at your business?Originally posted by Mat Toro:you asked me, and made remarks about my business. I wasn't boasting, I am only telling you the truth.
You then went on to say that my management is no good w/o any basis at all.
Why lower your discussion to such a level? How does that benefit you?
Why are you so intolerant of other people's views?
But I agree, let's move back to a rational discussion, since getting personal is not healthy for debates.
i quote the below (let's go point by point), and kindly note your unfriendly remark (w/o any basis) like what you accuse me of doing to you:
My take is, the leadership of Singapore currently is not having it hard, unlike the leadership of the old. With a well-oiled machinery and an excellent administration, it has often been touted that the civil service can continue to function normally even if our leaders are all lost in one night.
From what you just said, I know you don't have business experience.
Maintaining a big business is not a easy thing.
Competition is much tougher now than Tony's days. Please wake up and smell the coffee.
I am impressed with the way PAP ran this country like a corporation, putting in place well-oiled processes to ensure the country can run normally even if the head isn't there.
And that's the foundation of a good business. Maintaining a big business is not easy, but it is not difficult either. Big businesses' greatest challenge is how to move on to the next level (ie expand market share, go into new markets, etc, in order to continue to reach new levels), and not on the maintenance of the current levels of success.
Another analogy
if a business is already running at 100million turnovers annually, does this necessarily mean the boss is a good boss when he takes over from the older generation and runs this 100million turnover business at a constant rate of returns?
Or is the boss whom built from scratch a business and turns it into a 10 million annual turnover business, the better boss? (in this case, the rate of returns may be increasing) -
I give you another take in business
I have consulted a business where the business is doing very very well, earning loads and loads of profits, but the management does not share the fruits of labour to the employees. At the end of the day, this business's employee turnover is very high.
Compared to another business, it was doing well (but not as well as the previous example), and the management believes in sharing the fruits of labour to the employees. The end result is high talent retention and stability of the company.
What's so great if Singapore is bringing in the bucks, but only pathetic streams of fruits are given to the population? (most of the fruits are hogged in the reserves, which grow and grow, while the average Singaporean's payrise may not even beat inflation rates)
Compared to Finland or New Zealand, they may not do as well economically as our country, but their society is more stable, with more people happy, and the standard of living better than Singapore.
My greatest fear is that Singapore places too much emphasis on material success, that the very foundations of society are now getting affected. Right now, you may not see much. However, the day might come when the floodgates will open, and I cannot see how Singapore can recover from that sort of catastrophe. -
So the company does well and the managers and employees get increased pay. sounds familiar doesn't it?
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Originally posted by Mat Toro:When there are investments and entrepreneurship, won't that create jobs?
Any wonder why our salaries are increasing?
Of course jobs will be created but that is a world of difference from increasing the salaries of the middle income and lower income.
Check this link out:
http://www.yawningbread.org/arch_2006/yax-620.htm
GST is GST, workfare is workfare.
How do we fund workfare? are the rich entitled to workfare?
Singaporeans know that a chief reason for the GST increase is to fund workfare.
http://www.todayonline.com/articles/174398.asp
This is workfare in my post (19 July 10:20pm) to you:
FACT SHEET ON WORKFARE BONUS SCHEME (WBS) 2007
The amount of Workfare Bonus is based on the worker's average monthly income for the period worked in the year.
Average Monthly Income ---> Bonus to be paid* (per year)
$400 and below ---> 1.5 months salary, or $75, whichever is higher
Above $400 to $900 ---> $600
Above $900 to $1,200 ---> $400
Above $1,200 to $1,500 ---> $200
http://www.mom.gov.sg/publish/momportal/en/press_room/press_releases/2007/20070130-declarations.html#Factsheet
The rich are not entitled to workfare.
No sir, give us your salient points please.
Are you against workfare?
While I do not expect netizens of opposing views to be a 'know-it-all', please take the trouble to do more research and understand the situation better before your next post. Kindly read through the sources that I have quoted you. That would be much appreciated. -
increase by 1% is also an increaseOriginally posted by Mat Toro:So the company does well and the managers and employees get increased pay. sounds familiar doesn't it?
I refer to my opinion previously
"What's so great if Singapore is bringing in the bucks, but only pathetic streams of fruits are given to the population? (most of the fruits are hogged in the reserves, which grow and grow, while the average Singaporean's payrise may not even beat inflation rates) "
sounds familiar?
Well if you intend on posting 1 liners, don't say I din give you the chance for a rational debate.
PS: While I can tolerate and even accept rational differing views, I cannot tolerate and am tempted to even break and destroy irresponsible postings, and postings that shows the poster don't even take the trouble to read and UNDERSTAND the underlying implications of statements -
Really? Where are there then so many condos up and a flurry of enbloc sales?Originally posted by soul_rage:increase by 1% is also an increase
I refer to my opinion previously
"What's so great if Singapore is bringing in the bucks, but only pathetic streams of fruits are given to the population? (most of the fruits are hogged in the reserves, which grow and grow, while the average Singaporean's payrise may not even beat inflation rates) "
sounds familiar?
Well if you intend on posting 1 liners, don't say I din give you the chance for a rational debate.
All bought by foreigners? -
you are speculating again.Originally posted by Mat Toro:Really? Where are there then so many condos up and a flurry of enbloc sales?
All bought by foreigners?
let me highlight again, that there is a report from research analysts that the middle income Singaporean's pay has generally stagnated for the past 5 years, unless you are telling me the report is fake.
Again, another one-liner. I appreciate if you could post more intelligent postings, and stop all these speculative remarks. -
pls kindly answer the below analogy:
which is the better boss?
a) if a business is already running at 100million turnovers annually, does this necessarily mean the boss is a good boss when he takes over from the older generation and runs this 100million turnover business at a constant rate of returns?
b) Or is the boss whom built from scratch a business and turns it into a 10 million annual turnover business, the better boss? (in this case, the rate of returns may be increasing) -
where is that report? what report?
middle class? how is the middle class growing in numbers? -
pls do a search back on that topic in this forum, and don't expect us to spoonfeed you.Originally posted by Mat Toro:where is that report? what report?
middle class? how is the middle class growing in numbers?
We all do our own research and put up postings of such news.
So as a rational and credible voice, we expect the same from you.