GST to be raised to 7%
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I already explained twice on this thread. Please follow the thread.Originally posted by maurizio13:Well, then with your limited knowledge, you have misunderstood the term redistribution of income. Redistribution of income means taking the higher income of citizens and redistributing it to the poor of society. The redistribution may be in the form of medical benefits (paying less or not paying any medical fees), provision of public housing for the poor through subsidies, giving out food coupons for the poor, provision of free education, etc. Else the poor who do not make enough might not receive a basic form of sustenance (medical, education, etc).[/quote]
yeah, welfare state. The western govts know they are heading for bankrupt but can't get out. Whay shld we even start?
There is a lot of subsidy but not UK and Canadian style medical welfare.
Or do you suggest that we leave the poor out? Leave them to their own devices? Be it MRT tracks or HDB buildings.
In that case, Singapore would be considered a welfare state too, since it provided medical and education subsidies.
Both have serious problem with their health care system now. You think we shld go down the same road?
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You still have not provided me with an answer for your underlying mechanism to increase investments through increasing the GST.
Please explain the mechanism. -
You mean Finland, Norway and Germany all going bankrupt? Not all countries which provide basic welfare to it's citizens go bankrupt. Just like there are companies who makes profits and companies that makes losses.Originally posted by Mat Toro:yeah, welfare state. The western govts know they are heading for bankrupt but can't get out. Whay shld we even start?
Maybe you can elaborate what serious problems they have with their healthcare system now? Instead of making unsubstantiated claims.Originally posted by Mat Toro:There is a lot of subsidy but not UK and Canadian style medical welfare.
Both have serious problem with their health care system now. You think we shld go down the same road?
Maybe you can point me to the correct page, if you dare. Your logic is severely flawed, doesn't need much mental work to pwned it.Originally posted by Mat Toro:I already explained twice on this thread. Please follow the thread. -
Originally posted by maurizio13:
US and Canada can see trouble over the horizon and have no answers for it.
You mean Finland, Norway and Germany all going bankrupt? Not all countries which provide basic welfare to it's citizens go bankrupt. Just like there are companies who makes profits and companies that makes losses.
Same for Norway and Germany where the politicians have no answers to how they will pay for social secuirty and welfare with greying populations.
BTW, are you aware we don't have natural resources like Norway, US and Canada?
I'm surprised you aren't aware of their healthcare problems. Shame on you.
Maybe you can elaborate what serious problems they have with their healthcare system now? Instead of making unsubstantiated claims.
I suggest you do some research yourself.
Try post 84.
Maybe you can point me to the correct page, if you dare. Your logic is severely flawed, doesn't need much mental work to pwned it. -
Well, you can't use afew scenarios and used it as a generalisation for all countries. These countries have existed long before Singapore, they continue to do well, with strong GDPs and good surpluses, yet they provide welfare for the common folks.Originally posted by Mat Toro:US and Canada can see trouble over the horizon and have no answers for it.
Same for Norway and Germany where the politicians have no answers to how they will pay for social secuirty and welfare with greying populations.
BTW, are you aware we don't have natural resources like Norway, US and Canada?
BTW, our resources are our people. In case you don't understand basic business concepts, it's the valuing adding feature of our workforce that contributes to the GDP of our nation. Resources mean very little if they have not been processed into their final commodity. eg How much is silicon (sand) use in the fabrication of computer chips cost? A barrel of non processed crude oil cost US$50-60 (there are 160 litres of crude oil in a barrel), the final product gasoline S$1.70 to S$1.90 per litre and byproduct diesel $1.17 per litre. Even expensive crude oil, the commodity that made middle eastern countries rich are a fraction the cost of it's final product gasoline.
These days, the cost of a product is based on the technology contained within. Even products like medication, the cost to produce is low compared to the research that goes into it. Mr. R. V. Winkle, please wake up, we are living in the 21st century, we passed the 19th century 200 years ago.
I admit that I am not an all knowing guru like you, perhaps you like to shed some light on the subject.Originally posted by Mat Toro:I'm surprised you aren't aware of their healthcare problems. Shame on you.
I suggest you do some research yourself.
Post 84 on page 4? I don't see Mat Toro there. I hope you explanation is not going to be like, "because they increase the GST, that's why investments will go up". An "explanation" like this hardly explain the mechanics of the issue.Originally posted by Mat Toro:Try post 84. -
both uk and canada have shortage of doctors, especially UK.
i understand from a UK fren that you need to que 3 months for CT scan and the hospital will open at night only for CT scans for pets to earn money. ie. pets can get a scan on the spot while humans have to wait.
In canada, the hospitals don't even have money sometimes to pay utilities and have to off most lights at night. Its common for canadians to cross over to US for medical care. -
Is this gossips or facts? Maybe you can provide relevant substantiating information? In UK healthcare is free, so it's more forgiving to wait! In Singapore, you are paying for healthcare services, yet you have to wait 3 months to see the doctor.Originally posted by Mat Toro:both uk and canada have shortage of doctors, especially UK.
i understand from a UK fren that you need to que 3 months for CT scan and the hospital will open at night only for CT scans for pets to earn money. ie. pets can get a scan on the spot while humans have to wait.
In canada, the hospitals don't even have money sometimes to pay utilities and have to off most lights at night. Its common for canadians to cross over to US for medical care.
Turning off lights? Maybe an act to conserve energy to save the environment? -
exactly because it is free, they have a lot of problems. all these are well known. I'm very surprised you don't know. Have you ever read British news?
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I am sorry my friend. The PAP MP whom supported the GST hike said thisOriginally posted by Mat Toro:Why not 7%? would you rather have higher income and corporate tax now? if the govt don't raise taxes during good times, then when? During bad times? Only when the population is old?
You don't look for toilet paper only when you need it my fren. We gotta be far sighted and look at the big picture. No knee jerk policies please, its for losers.
What alternatives do you have?
"If you need to s**t, would you look for a toilet when you are going to s**t, or you look for toilet first and wait there?"
That stupid analogy led others to think how stupid she is.
So I believe you carry a toilet roll around with you wherever you go I presume?
Anyway, back to the topic. Why should we have higher income and corporate tax NOW if we don't increase GST? What is the main purpose to increase GST, would you mind telling me further? This qn is impt coz whether the increase is required depends on this purpose.
Becoz I hear our dear PM saying that increasing the GST is to HELP THE POOR, of which, I can tell you many other possible methods to help the poor, other than GST (and no, I have not seen them help the poor MORE after the hike)
So no, unless you can provide a strong reason why we need to increase GST to HELP THE POOR, I see you don't have any way to continue your argument coz you lack reading news, and all your points are based on your imagination -
I wonder if you ever read Singapore news, given that you have not seen many articles and have to depend on us to spoonfeed you.Originally posted by Mat Toro:exactly because it is free, they have a lot of problems. all these are well known. I'm very surprised you don't know. Have you ever read British news?
so why don't you tell us what other problems they have besides waiting a longer time. "A lot of problems" sounds like your speculation again. -
yeah, welfare state. The western govts know they are heading for bankrupt but can't get out. Whay shld we even start?
you are brainwashed already.
in the first place nobody is asking the govt to be a welfare state.
people might stop working if there is welfare.
what we expect of the govt is to help the poor, the really poor. not every tom, dick and harry. -
So how much do you do?Originally posted by Mat Toro:Only$10 and you wanna crow? Please!
Don't you know that the poor do get welfare that feed them till they die?
You are right that govt does help them much more than you ever did mister.
I suggest you fellas stop complaining and start giving more to the poor.
Go join Rotary Club, join the Lions. Spend your time serving the community. -
Sometimes, if one has an opinion and it resonates with the masses, he shall be respected.
Why? Because he understands them and is sincere in listening to feedback.
Other times, there are those who profess to be open minded but end up spewing a lot of information which cannot be backed up. This is otherwise known as 'baloney'.
Do we need such people in Speakers' Corner? NO because they do not contribute to a healthy debate. The more Singaporeans see such posts, the more they can feel the disconnection of the PAP.
Sometimes, it is not what you say that matters, it is what you don't say. -
Not your money, you don't have much, its your time. How about once a week? I mean it. You really want to help the poor?Originally posted by soul_rage:So how much do you do? -
Originally posted by Rock^Star:
logical fallacy. This is not a popularity show. Your vote don't count. Your shouting and rantings don't make you right either.
[b]Sometimes, if one has an opinion and it resonates with the masses, he shall be respected.
I doubt Singaporeans resonate with you sir. Majority vote PAP and they won by a landslide.
Why? Because he understands them and is sincere in listening to feedback.
Other times, there are those who profess to be open minded but end up spewing a lot of information which cannot be backed up. This is otherwise known as 'baloney'.
Do we need such people in Speakers' Corner? NO because they do not contribute to a healthy debate. The more Singaporeans see such posts, the more they can feel the disconnection of the PAP.
Sometimes, it is not what you say that matters, it is what you don't say. -
i'm so sorry you are so wrong....66.6% is landslide victory? No doubt their policies are questionable, is the sweeteners that ppl vote and stability whom ppl would not like to change cause the victory...Originally posted by Mat Toro:I doubt Singaporeans resonate with you sir. Majority vote PAP and they won by a landslide.
to add on, recently in office whom they are civil servants, also complains that prices for DAILY EXPENSES have raise & becoming INCREASING EXPENSIVE -
Please elaborate.Originally posted by Mat Toro:exactly because it is free, they have a lot of problems. all these are well known. I'm very surprised you don't know. Have you ever read British news? -
Gossip? Thought you are the master of gossips and hearsay. Yes, the long waiting times and backlog in the NHS is true (and I work in the NHS). Why do you think the British government is spending so much money sending patients to France for hip replacement? Why do you think private medical practice is so lucrative nowadays? Why do you think the adverts in the subway trains entice customers to take up private medical insurance because 'you don't have to wait'?Originally posted by maurizio13:Is this gossips or facts? Maybe you can provide relevant substantiating information? In UK healthcare is free, so it's more forgiving to wait! In Singapore, you are paying for healthcare services, yet you have to wait 3 months to see the doctor.
Turning off lights? Maybe an act to conserve energy to save the environment?
Do your research instead of ranting based on old wives' tales
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whether how much money I have is again your speculation. How much of my time is also your speculationOriginally posted by Mat Toro:Not your money, you don't have much, its your time. How about once a week? I mean it. You really want to help the poor?
my interest is, how much do you do, since you want to behave like a kid and want to do comparisons.
Come on, let us know, since you want others to share with you, you should start the sharing first -
ok so UK has long waiting times.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Gossip? Thought you are the master of gossips and hearsay. Yes, the long waiting times and backlog in the NHS is true (and I work in the NHS). Why do you think the British government is spending so much money sending patients to France for hip replacement? Why do you think private medical practice is so lucrative nowadays? Why do you think the adverts in the subway trains entice customers to take up private medical insurance because 'you don't have to wait'?
Do your research instead of ranting based on old wives' tales
So? -
right or wrong, he makes more sense than you.
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
[b]Sometimes, if one has an opinion and it resonates with the masses, he shall be respected.
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logical fallacy. This is not a popularity show. Your vote don't count. Your shouting and rantings don't make you right either.
You resonate with childish postings and careless and irresponsible remarks, implying a certain failure in you as a human being.
again this is a rubbish posting by you. I can refer you to mathematical proof to make you eat humble pie and admit that the voting only represents a minority of Singaporeans.
I doubt Singaporeans resonate with you sir. Majority vote PAP and they won by a landslide. -
These days, forumers whose views are always subjected to fierce rebuttals from the mass forumers have resorted to using clones to put forth their propaganda.
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3 points I want to get into your thick head Mr Mat
yeah, welfare state. The western govts know they are heading for bankrupt but can't get out. Whay shld we even start?
There is a lot of subsidy but not UK and Canadian style medical welfare.
Both have serious problem with their health care system now. You think we shld go down the same road?
(1) No one said 100% welfare state. So please start learning how to understand English.
(2) 9 out of 10 fail in business. So from your attitude seeing other countries not succeeding in certain things, means you wouldn't DARE to try and get those things right after seeing others' failures. Can I then say you aren't the 10 million dollar businessman you claim yourself to be?
(3) It remains to be seen if the western govts will become bankrupt, or they revert to some form of balance in the end on a more affordable mode of welfare for the state. I doubt they ever will come to Singapore's state where very little is provided for the needy. -
Well, compare UK NHS with Singapore's hospitals; NHS is free with long queue time and Singapore is not free but with also long queue time. Which would a rational person choose?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Gossip? Thought you are the master of gossips and hearsay. Yes, the long waiting times and backlog in the NHS is true (and I work in the NHS). Why do you think the British government is spending so much money sending patients to France for hip replacement? Why do you think private medical practice is so lucrative nowadays? Why do you think the adverts in the subway trains entice customers to take up private medical insurance because 'you don't have to wait'?
Do your research instead of ranting based on old wives' tales
Well, you can't get the best of both worlds, since it's free, it's bound to be over utilised. What do you suggest? Let the poor with no money to pay for medical services choose the MRT tracks or die on the streets?
I do know of people who travel to Malaysia or Indonesia to have surgery, since it's much cheaper than Singapore. In comparison to your UK citizens travelling to France to do surgery. What does this prove?
France which is another welfare state, probably has better management of it's medical resources. This is shooting yourself in the foot again, since you were always against the idea of a welfare state.
Since you claim that France is better, Singapore might as well adopt their system of healthcare system.
Have you ever considered yourself as the root cause of NHS inefficiencies? Toilet cleaning will affect the overall morale of the medical staff, which in turn can lead to inefficiencies in the system.
Hehehe -
Of course its a landslide! Its two against one. And they took all except two seats.Originally posted by duotiga83:i'm so sorry you are so wrong....66.6% is landslide victory? No doubt their policies are questionable, is the sweeteners that ppl vote and stability whom ppl would not like to change cause the victory...
to add on, recently in office whom they are civil servants, also complains that prices for DAILY EXPENSES have raise & becoming INCREASING EXPENSIVE
Sorry buddy, most Singaporeans just don't agree with you whether you realise like it or not. you fellas can complain everyday for the next twenty years, Singaporeans will still support PAP. -
66.6% is not genuine support. Rest assured that this statistic will drop by at least 10% the next election.Originally posted by Mat Toro:Of course its a landslide! Its two against one. And they took all except two seats.
Sorry buddy, most Singaporeans just don't agree with you whether you realise like it or not. you fellas can complain everyday for the next twenty years, Singaporeans will still support PAP.
And obviously, you have no inkling on how the GRC system works and how it supports the PAP.
If you count in all stat boards: EDB, MAS, MHA, MOH, MOE, MCYS, ASTAR, AVA, BCA, DSTA, CAAS, EMA, HPB, HSA, HDB, IDA, IRAS, ITE, IES, LTA, MPA, MDA, NP, NTU, NAC, NCSS, NEA, NHB, NIE, NLB, NPB, NUS, NTU, NAP, PA, PTC, PUB, SDC, SLF, SLA, SMC, SNB, SP, SSC, STB, SPRING, TP, URA, TTSH, SGH, NUH, CGH etc etc.
Then include the uniformed forces: SAF, SPF, SCDF.
That's in the millions, huh?
No one would bite the hand that feeds them and this is a worrying trend for the long term future of Singapore. You have millions of Singaporeans who do not agree with the governance but still vote for them.
A country living under repression: what kind of effects will this have on Singapore in the long term?
Soul_rage, pls show him the stats on "genuine support" that was compiled the last time.