All out to defame our governement
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I used the word "what if" did I not? Can I sue you for defamation?Originally posted by january:1000 and 1million is big difference. 1000 times bigger. what are u trying to play with numbers.
1 millions. you give me ur source of data collection first.
you are committing the error of appeal to popularity
quoted from logical website
Appeals to popularity suggest that an idea must be true simply because it is widely held. This is a fallacy because popular opinion can be, and quite often is, mistaken
I am still awaiting your reply. What do you think about the NKF issue? The NKF provided treatments just like the government put rice on our table did NKF not do that? Why was NKF still prosecuted? Would NKF still be under Durai if NO ONE had questioned?
What if the plumber did not raise the issue of the golden tap? What is Susan Ong did not report it?
What if everyone of us agrees to everything the government says?
What if everyone were like you January? -
This post is not meant for you.Originally posted by january:ur statistic is so open for counter arguments. surely your expenditure is luxury life.
Insurance- good
transport - public transport or car? can break down the mathematics?
Parents 800? people dun give so much nowadays.. trend is not giving or giving token sum.
food - 400 -- house never cook meh..
transport 250 can explain how u get figure
leisure ( include gf) - no money then dun leisure lah...
library free... electricity to listen radio not expensive-- so many channels.
tv channels -- channel 8, cahnnel u, art channel, channel news asia ,channel 5
some 24 hr..
mediate is good for health.. exercise is good for health... bad minton racket so cheap...
talking with ur family members.. going for walk in neighbour hood... make neighbour hood friends..... window shopping.... and so many more...
500 for leisure.. dun follow those rich people lah... they got money u dun have then dun be greedy and jealous
You are a university undergraduate? Have not worked and supported the family before? Is starting a family even on your cards? Do you know what it means to have parents going in and out of hospital due to old age?
In philosophy, we should all be frugal, that I agree with you. However, in truth? Not everyone is. How can we make everyone frugal? Impossible. Since it's impossible, we have to play by the game and not idealistically demand that everyone be frugal.
Can you make everyone frugal? No, right? So why demand that people be?
Typical of philosphical mentality.
Can the govt make everyone frugal? No, they can't. Govt's role is to make life as smooth as possible, where feasible, for the citizens. Otherwise, why get elected? -
okay.. fair enough tell me something where you think govt is doing wrong.Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:Haha but that does not explain why the government is hiding crucial information from us does it?
Your argument is just telling us that we have enough to eat, so don't care about what the government does as long as there is food on my table. We are not a third world country my friend...
somemore, doing one thing wrong does not mean that government is a failure though. dun keep picking on a mistakes or wrong investment and step it like a smashed potato until its rotten and conclude that govt is failure and bias.
there are many things.. dun just focus on mistakes...
i myself deal with my personal life makes hundreds of mistakes and decision everyday with knowing whether i have make a mistakes or not . or find that make wrong mistake or find that i think i make a wrong mistake but actually i am thinking too negatviely liao or i thinking that i make a mistake but it turn out to be a blessing in disguise.
my one small life is already so complex already and what is about managing a country with people having various interests. -
In your haste to reply, you obviously haven't read that portion of the thread carefully.Originally posted by citymax:if the stats was right, the ISD has already caught 34% of the voting people and put them to nowhere. which means now singapore population is down to 66.6% of it original population.
But how come still got so many people buying hdb flats huh??haiz.. think ISD havnt catch all the people that vote for the opposition parties.
Read again and intelligent posts are appreciated. -
definitely we have no problem to allow the opposition to rule the country, but how confident do u have for the present batch of people in the opposition parties?Originally posted by Cullen[10]:LIKE u said. 40 over years they have governed this country. So why not let oppostion do 4 years and see how they do.
So does it mean that bring down the gst to 0% and giving $ to the poor is a good government.
why dun we come out with a system that everyone $ is being shared in singapore. there will be no poor and no rich. everyone has the same income.
do u think the investors still want to come to singapore to invest.
So the poor dun nid to work and also will get paid every month, the talented people will just feel wat is the point of working so hard and get the same pay as others.
The government can just close shop, we dun nid the ministers and statutory board to ensure the country function, as we dun trust them,coz we tot all government people are corrupted.
we juz manage everything ourselves. becoz we feel we can do a better job than anyone of them.
So if this is the society u wan then be it. -
ok. who do you suggest that we can call to investigate the govt internal working?Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:To January:
NKF was also addressing the needs of their patients were they not? So why were they under public scrutiny, why was a thorough investigation carried out on the company's accounts even though NKF did what it was supposed to do?
Hope you can answer my question posed to you.
last post for now.. -
Ok those are what ifs.Originally posted by january:how do you know that improving wages to attract talents will be bad for singaporean? you can see the future liao issit.
are you sure that not improving wages to attract talents means that future will still be better?
not changing and changing policy are both decisions themselves. both has its uncertainty.
This is a fact:
Wages had nothing to do with LKY, Ong Teng Cheong, Chiam See Tong, David Marshall joining politics...
So what makes you think these talents are really talents when I see that most of them actually graduated from the public sector instead of the private sector? -
On the other hand, I notice the lack of achievements from this current batch of ''leaders"... can you name me some of their current achievements? And I don't mean efficient transportation etc... those were trophies from another era...Originally posted by january:okay.. fair enough tell me something where you think govt is doing wrong.
somemore, doing one thing wrong does not mean that government is a failure though. dun keep picking on a mistakes or wrong investment and step it like a smashed potato until its rotten and conclude that govt is failure and bias.
there are many things.. dun just focus on mistakes...
i myself deal with my personal life makes hundreds of mistakes and decision everyday with knowing whether i have make a mistakes or not . or find that make wrong mistake or find that i think i make a wrong mistake but actually i am thinking too negatviely liao or i thinking that i make a mistake but it turn out to be a blessing in disguise.
my one small life is already so complex already and what is about managing a country with people having various interests.
Name me recent ones. -
really last post for now
In philosophy, we should all be frugal, that I agree with you. However, in truth? Not everyone is. How can we make everyone frugal? Impossible. Since it's impossible, we have to play by the game and not idealistically demand that everyone be frugal.
In philosophy, govt should all be good, that I agree with you. However, in truth? Not every govt is. How can we make govt good? Impossible. Since it's impossible, we have to play by the game and not idealistically demand that govt be good. -
You mean we can even suggest that without getting sued for libel, slander, defamation what-have-yous?!Originally posted by january:ok. who do you suggest that we can call to investigate the govt internal working?
last post for now..
Please wake up and realise that it is not even remotely possible. If our dear late Mr Ong Teng Cheong's story does not ring those little bells in your concrete head I am not sure what does?
Last post for now too... -
despite the rallying of arguments.. pls i am peaceful loving person..
let arguments be contained with words and not fist.
i urged every person to be calm when staking respective views.
i personally feel emotions when i see arguments or wrong reasons so
in the process i am also training myself how to be calm during discussion.
hopefully these will be useful for verbal discussion. -
So you are saying our govt is not that good? Isn't that contrary to your stand?Originally posted by january:really last post for now
In philosophy, govt should all be good, that I agree with you. However, in truth? Not every govt is. How can we make govt good? Impossible. Since it's impossible, we have to play by the game and not idealistically demand that govt be good.
And if so, why are you asking citizens to "take responsiblilty and not blame the govt" as you call it? -
In the east was a little red dot,
Once a one-man-one-vote democracy,
Where good men were elected by citizens
As their leaders to fight against injustice and inequity,
To serve people for the needs and aspirations with humility,
Alas once trusted and given such an opportunity,
These men sniffed at people's trust and claimed their talents,
Through legalistic wrangling they tweak the laws,
They secured all powers over the legislative and judiciary,
And became haughty and **@#ey,
With overwhelming power they gave themselves the highest salaries,
Selectively benchmarked only to few lottory winning CEOs
Who got to where they were through luck, capital risks,
And the most stringent evaluation selection process,
Not satisfied with their world's highest salaries,
That surpass even that of president of United States,
They still claimed highest was not enough,
They gave themselves highest bonuses and life-long fees,
And even double pays for retiring while working,
They taxed, recovered fullest costs and hoarded taxes as surplus,
Then claimed such surpluses as their success,
Not satisfied with one-man-one-vote election system,
Which they said would lead to freak election,
They tweaked the election process into group representation or GRC
Requiring candidates to form mini-government blocks,
Before they could stand for election,
That prevented best candidates to stand in single wards,
In name that would provide racial harmony,
In fact GRC gave them monopoly to cling on to power,
Atop such monopoly civil libel suits were used to sue anyone,
For speaking the truths till no one is standing on election day,
Election day became the day to declare walk over,
With no contest in GRCs, they claim mandates
To tax, recover fullest costs with profiteering by GLCs and HDB,
Some rebates were given on conservancy,
To pacify peasants and potential rebel,
Once election was over, GST and fees would be increased
From selling public housing built on lands paid by citizens,
Charged at market value at a little discount called subsidy,
Forever and ever there would be unending taxes,
To build surpluses claimed as success to pay the highest salaries,
To prevent ministerial corruption or loss of talents,
Alas profiteering and surpluses could not be revealed,
But could be lost without news on souzhou or shin corp,
When lost they were not mistakes but long term investments,
Election goodies took care of all such unhappy memories,
Integrated resorts were invoked over vowed dead body,
Notwithstanding citizens' wages dropping back to 3rd world's.
Never mind many issues like the rising costs,
For they would proclaim which country had no rising costs,
For they would say every one makes mistakes,
One by one they would push away all mistakes,
By saying that People were the whinners,
They would claim recessions not their fault but globalization,
They could not guarantee value-add economic restructuring,
They would give excuses like the little red dot had no resources,
Forever and ever People should be grateful to their little red dot -
Yes, but you should notice by now that many issues have been swept under the carpet for too long. The people are getting restless.Originally posted by january:despite the rallying of arguments.. pls i am peaceful loving person..
let arguments be contained with words and not fist.
i urged every person to be calm when staking respective views.
i personally feel emotions when i see arguments or wrong reasons so
in the process i am also training myself how to be calm during discussion.
hopefully these will be useful for verbal discussion. -
thanks man. but u better cut that out to conclude me as an idiot,becoz u are not too clever too.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:exactly right... we point out the gahman's shortcomings is called "defame our governement" to TS
so can we conclude that he is an idiot, after 8 pages of postings to show that we are not out to "defame our governement"? -
This I agree with you but first, you still have not answered my post on pg 13 (1:20pm).Originally posted by january:despite the rallying of arguments.. pls i am peaceful loving person..
let arguments be contained with words and not fist.
i urged every person to be calm when staking respective views.
i personally feel emotions when i see arguments or wrong reasons so
in the process i am also training myself how to be calm during discussion.
hopefully these will be useful for verbal discussion.
If you cannot answer it, I take it that your arguments do not stand and that you are just carrying this out for philosophy's sake; losing the plot.
Hence, your comments cannot be taken seriously as it is just full of empty air. -
No one would call you an idiot if your comments were sensible. Nevertheless, it was a good exchange of views.Originally posted by citymax:thanks man. but u better cut that out to conclude me as an idiot,becoz u are not too clever too. -
i think it would be just wise to let this thread to rest since the TS has not started work 'full time' or has yet to get married and have kids..to fully understand the situation the poor and the middle income family is facing now
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too lame to ans.Originally posted by kengkia:are u saying citymax is a PAP doggie??
i might be naive to some and those who give positive opinion that the present govenment should improve are applaused.
Positive disccusion is needed and not accusation compared to previous topics.
Now we are really discussing on the progress of the country and not being critical to juz a few persons.
why we are so agitated at times is becoz we care for the country and of coz we wan a better government. -
pls read all the thread before accusing me havnt work and not married yet.Originally posted by 4getmenot:i think it would be just wise to let this thread to rest since the TS has not started work 'full time' or has yet to get married and have kids..to fully understand the situation the poor and the middle income family is facing now
this is assumption from u, and assume means making a ass out of u and me.
So pls provide positive comments and not destructive one.
thanks -
My mistake.. i was refering to january actually..Originally posted by citymax:pls read all the thread before accusing me havnt work and not married yet.
this is assumption from u, and assume means making a ass out of u and me.
So pls provide positive comments and not destructive one.
thanks
dun take it so personally..
However i do not agree wif your thread title as "all out to defame our governement" because the truth is, there are certain points and factors of policies and mistakes that the gahmen has recently implemented coupled with their explaination which is not logical.. to me at least.. maybe my head too small to comprehand and understand..?
A very good example would be like some threadster wrote in defence, that people are complaining and whinning becuz they are just jealous of the rich and successful? thats a crazy assumption...or rather a stupid one.
One of the most nagging problem arises from the increase of GST which in turn will increase the daily necessarity of a household, tis in turn affects not only the poorest class but also the middle class which are already grappling with lower salary due to FT competition. Now the gahmen ask the people not to be fussy and accept jobs at lower salary or get new skills. Its easy for commoners to understand one another the reality of the problem rather then someone up there in the ivory tower whos only implements without giving much thought or even being in their shoes for a single day.
commoner's problem : I can't get a job
gahmen's reply : Get new skill or dun ask for too much salary. (did the gahmen take into account that an average worker looking for a job would probably have a family to feed?) If they can tell the people to take a lesser job or a lesser pay, y the increase in their own salary in the first place?
commoner's problem : living expenses rising..salary still same or lower
gahmens reply : we need to stay competitive, spend less (how to when Gst is increased, ECP increase god knows what else more to follow..)
commoner's problem : y the rise in GST?
gahmens reply : to help the poor, we need to save the reserves for the bad times..
(so when are the good times actually? during pre election? when progress package is given out? and isn;t it actually from the tax payers money that this progress package are being given out?
just to name a few.. not to mention the raise of age for retirement..and cpf withdrawals... -
First of all you are incorrect when you say "allow the opposition to rule the country". If PAP is to lose the election and another political party (eg WP) is to get the majority. then WP is the ruling party and PAP is the opposition. WP will then form the new government until the next election.Originally posted by citymax:definitely we have no problem to allow the opposition to rule the country, but how confident do u have for the present batch of people in the opposition parties?
So does it mean that bring down the gst to 0% and giving $ to the poor is a good government.
why dun we come out with a system that everyone $ is being shared in singapore. there will be no poor and no rich. everyone has the same income.
do u think the investors still want to come to singapore to invest.
So the poor dun nid to work and also will get paid every month, the talented people will just feel wat is the point of working so hard and get the same pay as others.
The government can just close shop, we dun nid the ministers and statutory board to ensure the country function, as we dun trust them,coz we tot all government people are corrupted.
we juz manage everything ourselves. becoz we feel we can do a better job than anyone of them.
So if this is the society u wan then be it.
Please do not "confuse" and that it is either PAP or "opposition".
Also, the "scenario" that you are painted are much too extreme. That seems to be the standard PAP tactic also. Always paint doomsday scenarios... -
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Woodbridge is not doing a good job...what you doing here? Get back to your ward for ECTOriginally posted by maurizio13:Here pooch!
Here pooch!
I have a nice yummy bone for you. -
Don't put words in me, I have never mentioned the above underlined.Originally posted by Gazelle:Can I know why should MOM be afraid to show the the rich are getting richer? I thought any tom and dick will know that widening income gap problem is happening all over the world. Why should Singapore be different?
Since we are at the subject, could you let us know if the income gap problem in Singapore alot worse than other developed countries around the world.
I am sure this is a valid question and for godsake, please answer me.
Widening income gap is indeed a problem faced by many countries the world over. Singapore is no different. However, why did ST not publish the statistics as researched by the World Bank and CIA? Isn't our democratic society one of free press?
LHL once said: "You can get anything you want in Singapore. You can travel, you can bring it in. You can - you can organize what you want. You can say anything you want, and all sorts of things are said and debated in Singapore."
Look at these links and one will know why such info is withheld.
http://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2172.html
http://devdata.worldbank.org/wdi2005/Section2.htm
With such results, are they still worthy of their exorbitant salaries when other nations are doing better and their ministers paid much less? Since they are paid so much, shouldn't Singaporeans deserve better? Isn't this why the govt stood for elections in the very first place?
Can TS still say that we are defaming our govt? Or is the hard truth too hard to swallow?
What about you? Can you handle the truth? Or too big a pill for you to swallow? Which explains why your rebuttals are sorely lacking in substance?