All out to defame our governement
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Not only that. The median income is estimated to be at around the 70-80% mark.Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:I may not be well versed along the lines of economics, but can I say that the rate of inflation is higher than the increase in wages?
The poor earning less, the rich earning more over time. -
cos you think of ur point of view of not the country? cos u dun trust their decisionOriginally posted by eviljustice:for u can see, why would we defame our government if they did nth wrong? -
Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:
the govt do use media like television and newspaper to communicate their explanation what.
[b]You are changing the subject again.. like you always do when you cannot provide a sensible and logical counter to my posts. When will you ever stop insulting people when your back is against the wall?
It's time you respond like a man, not like a little baby.
My question to you now is that just like you can have issues with the Australian government, can't we as Singaporeans have the need for greater understanding behind the logic for certain policies?[/b]
so who says that goverment do not try to explain their policies. -
But are the views expressed fair and balanced? Do you actually see this article or articles along the same vein in the local press?Originally posted by january:the govt do use media like television and newspaper to communicate their explanation what.
so who says that goverment do not try to explain their policies.
http://www.singapore-window.org/1028judi.htm
I included this link to merely show how distorted and biased the media in Singapore is. In this information age, boundaries and walls created by the government can easily be broken down by taking the initiative to find out more.
Delve deeper instead of accepting everything that the government says. Accepting everything fed to you will make you no different from a zombie. -
then how do you that PAP is greedy people. just because of rising cost, and what you perception that their policies are not good.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Please don't swing here and there. Very giddy you know.
You talk about trust for the current government, but the same logic doesn't apply to the rest, so what is there to talk about?
I may be extreme on this, but I still believe one needs to die to know what death is.
We have not experienced it, how do we know the opposition will not be greedy? You are too quick to brush them off.
The government has given ample and broad consideration for its policies, therefore, population feedback will only be given small consideration only, particularly if the feedback are unsuitable because they population dun undergo broad and complex decision process.
The government have to be firm in its stance. They will allow greater participation from citizens if they are more reasonable, more authority.
Policies makers nowadays involves leaders and scientist from various field thus showing that government do try to bring in experts of different field who have really great knowledge in their fields. -
that is defamation?Originally posted by january:cos you think of ur point of view of not the country? cos u dun trust their decision
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What if 10, 100, 1000 or even 1 million people think the same way? Are these people not Singapore Citizens? We are now showing you statistics and information that you might not have seen before in your whole life, but that is not your fault.Originally posted by january:cos you think of ur point of view of not the country? cos u dun trust their decision
Singaporeans are brought up to accept and not question authority. They only read and breathe Straits Times... it's time to break out of the shell. -
Then how do you know they are not greedy people? Do scroll back 1-3 pages to see my post on T.T Durai. He successfully sued 3 people for defamation before he was finally brought to light.Originally posted by january:then how do you that PAP is greedy people. just because of rising cost, and what you perception that their policies are not good.
The government has given ample and broad consideration for its policies, therefore, population feedback will only be given small consideration only, particularly if the feedback are unsuitable because they population do undergo broad and complex decision process.
The government have to be firm in its stance. They will allow greater participation from citizens if they are more reasonable, more authority.
Policies makers nowadays involves leaders and scientist from various field thus showing that government do try to bring in experts of different field who have really great knowledge in their fields.
I agree that the government has given ample and broad consideration, but to whom are this considerations being made? The role of the government is to ensure that the country is being well-run. True. But they also have to ensure put the well-beings of their people into consideration... but they have shown thus-far that they are incapable of such acts.
They chose instead to fill the pockets of shareholders of PUBLIC transport company with money...
They chose instead to fill their pockets with an >20% increase in salary while the wages of the general population remains stagnant! -
i ask a question to all the complainers in here.
what do have not in your life that your think your life is not smooth and not good?
Is it that you cannot go concert? cannot go restaurant? cannot buy car? cannot live in big house? cannot watch movies frequently? Cannot take taxi? cannot go to wedding (60 per person) ? cannot buy cable vision? cannot buy 60 dollar internet subscription?
Do you know that singtel cheapest is 30 dollars per month. 1Mbps
If you expectation exceed your income, of course you will have not smooth life. What people do is to shfit the cause of problem from them to others.
that is the usual scene.
people can enjoy more spending because they earn more. as long as you dun follow them becos u not the same income bracket, then your life will be smooth because you know how to plan your finance and plan long term.
there are many cheaper lifestyle if u follow, life will be smooth. -
Can I know why should MOM be afraid to show the the rich are getting richer? I thought any tom and dick will know that widening income gap problem is happening all over the world. Why should Singapore be different?Originally posted by Rock^Star:How true.
Has Gazelle noticed that statistics on percentage of population per income group is ostensibly missing from the MOM website?
If MOM can use CPF contributions to calculate the mean income of Singaporeans, why not the classification of the population by income levels?
Or is MOM afraid to show that it is the rich getting richer and the poor remaining poor?
Since we are at the subject, could you let us know if the income gap problem in Singapore alot worse than other developed countries around the world.
I am sure this is a valid question and for godsake, please answer me. -
Originally posted by Rock^Star:
ur statistic is so open for counter arguments. surely your expenditure is luxury life.
Let me quote you an example of my friend:
Mr A's profile:
University graduate
IT professional
Worked for 4 years
Take home salary: $2,300/mth
Monthly expenses:
Parents - $800
Food - $400
Transport - $250
Insurance - $300
Leisure (includes gf) - $500
[b]Savings - $50
[/b]
Insurance- good
transport - public transport or car? can break down the mathematics?
Parents 800? people dun give so much nowadays.. trend is not giving or giving token sum.
food - 400 -- house never cook meh..
transport 250 can explain how u get figure
leisure ( include gf) - no money then dun leisure lah...
library free... electricity to listen radio not expensive-- so many channels.
tv channels -- channel 8, cahnnel u, art channel, channel news asia ,channel 5
some 24 hr..
mediate is good for health.. exercise is good for health... bad minton racket so cheap...
talking with ur family members.. going for walk in neighbour hood... make neighbour hood friends..... window shopping.... and so many more...
500 for leisure.. dun follow those rich people lah... they got money u dun have then dun be greedy and jealous -
Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Repost for january. I would like your comments.
Interesting notion. (Bulverism)I questioned january: First and foremost, please comprehend that there is a hierachy to fill in every society. Not everyone can climb the ladder and make it good. Take a toilet cleaner for example. Is the reason why she's just a cleaner because she does not work hard enough? Is a mechanic still a mechanic after 20 years because he has poor work ethics? Given the huge supply of poly and uni grads year after year, is a diploma holder still earning less than $2000/mth after years of working, a bum? Likewise, a degree holder earning les than $3000/mth after years of working, a sloth?
He replied: if you think minister pay is good, why do you be a engineer, a cleaner or employee.
I also mentioned: These people do not ask for a crutch from the govt. Not everyone can make it good, that is why we need good governance to make life as smooth as possible.
He deflected my qn: Making every one good life is often not easy. anyway, if people dun always have the "keeping up with jonness" attitude and want this want that, of course they will not have money.
I challenged again: Every society has a hierachy to fill and not everyone can make it good. If everyone can become as they desire, then there shall only be MDs and GMs around, no coffesshop assistants or even cleaners to speak of.
He played "hide and seek" once again: so if you are a coffee shop assistant and you complain of your low wage, then dun be coffee shop assistant.
Yes, philosophy, socio-economics and politics can be inter-related. However, too much of philosophy ushered in makes one appear like he's spewing empty air.
For example, January philosophised: "I take self accountability to get rich and dun like to waste my time complaining policies. It always seems that it is human nature to think that government is doing the wrong thing again instead of also taking account of government progress."
Theoretically speaking, that should be the correct mentality. However, every society has a hierachy to fill (refer to my 2nd paragraph). Given this situation, if one still tries to use philosophy to further his stand, then it shows he doesn't understand the situation at all. -
I don't know how leaders and scientist from various fields can show how an increase in wages for our government, more FTs, more stepping on toes, more double taxation is going to improve the life of Singaporeans in general?Originally posted by january:Policies makers nowadays involves leaders and scientist from various field thus showing that government do try to bring in experts of different field who have really great knowledge in their fields.
Do they even care? -
If you want to question my thoughts about this subject you should be the one to do your own research to proof me wrong.Originally posted by Rock^Star:It's a valid question and is vital to whether you can sustain your argument a not.
Just answer his question for goodness sake.
PS> statistic of median income is easily avaiable from our government's website, since you are so keen on the subject, I would appreciate if you could digest those information and let us know what do you think.
I think my request is valid too isnt it? -
Haha but that does not explain why the government is hiding crucial information from us does it?Originally posted by january:i ask a question to all the complainers in here.
what do have not in your life that your think your life is not smooth and not good?
Is it that you cannot go concert? cannot go restaurant? cannot buy car? cannot live in big house? cannot watch movies frequently? Cannot take taxi? cannot go to wedding (60 per person) ? cannot buy cable vision? cannot buy 60 dollar internet subscription?
Do you know that singtel cheapest is 30 dollars per month. 1Mbps
If you expectation exceed your income, of course you will have not smooth life. What people do is to shfit the cause of problem from them to others.
that is the usual scene.
people can enjoy more spending because they earn more. as long as you dun follow them becos u not the same income bracket, then your life will be smooth because you know how to plan your finance and plan long term.
there are many cheaper lifestyle if u follow, life will be smooth.
Your argument is just telling us that we have enough to eat, so don't care about what the government does as long as there is food on my table. We are not a third world country my friend... -
Gazelle. Not sure if this helps, but you can try digesting this information. Bumpz for this reply from Jontst78.Originally posted by Jontst78:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore#Growth_in_household_income_by_decile
The statistics are in the link, and done by the PAP government.
The lower 20% suffer constants drops, while highest 10% get increases. Facts endorsed by the Singapore Dept of Statistics... -
To January:
NKF was also addressing the needs of their patients were they not? So why were they under public scrutiny, why was a thorough investigation carried out on the company's accounts even though NKF did what it was supposed to do?
Hope you can answer my question posed to you. -
first, he is talking abt poltiics of judicial over some incidents.. if u generalize it to whole of government that isOriginally posted by bigmouthjoe:But are the views expressed fair and balanced? Do you actually see this article or articles along the same vein in the local press?
http://www.singapore-window.org/1028judi.htm
I included this link to merely show how distorted and biased the media in Singapore is. In this information age, boundaries and walls created by the government can easily be broken down by taking the initiative to find out more.
Delve deeper instead of accepting everything that the government says. Accepting everything fed to you will make you no different from a zombie.
error of generalizing from specific incidents.
second, on what bais do you agree with him and that his views against singapore certain sector is right?
all this are his claims mah, does not necessary represent the truth. -
I will answer your qns above, I promise. But before we deviate from our heading any further, please answer the issue below.Originally posted by Gazelle:Can I know why should MOM be afraid to show the the rich are getting richer? I thought any tom and dick will know that widening income gap problem is happening all over the world. Why should Singapore be different?
Since we are at the subject, could you let us know if the income gap problem in Singapore alot worse than other developed countries around the world.
I am sure this is a valid question and for godsake, please answer me.
ndmmxiaomayi said: Is it just lifestyle alone?
10 years ago, I see the same people earning the same amount.
10 years later, I still see the same people earning the same amount, without all these luxuries and struggling.
You asked: The above statement will be more meaningful if you could let us know
a) Who are these same people you are referring to?
b) Does this pool of people provide a good represtation of the overall Singapore job market?
c) Do you have reasons to believe that the statistic provided by MOM is distorted?
http://www.mom.gov.sg/publish/momportal/en/communities/others/mrsd/statistics/Earnings_and_Wages.html
kilua asked: I am sure you have studied mean median mode in "O" levels. A rise in average could mean the top 10% wage are rising rising and pulling up the average while the general populations wage stays stagnant. Could please produce data for median please,
jonst78 replied: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore#Growth_in_household_income_by_decile
Household income distribution by Signapore Dept of Statistics.
At the 60% mark, its about 4k per household. Think most of us agree that almost all households in that range have more than one breadwinner.
If you cannot prove ndmxiaomayi wrong, then you cannot sustain your argument.
Answer 1) this issue and
2) Why did you use the mean salary of the entire Singapore as a basis of your argument when the classfication of Singaporeans by income level is obviously appropriate here?
and I will reply your initial questions above. -
But notice only the government's claims are taken into account. Anyway this is only one article, would you like more instead of those boring articles from the straits times?Originally posted by january:first, he is talking abt poltiics of judicial over some incidents.. if u generalize it to whole of government that is
error of generalizing from specific incidents.
second, on what bais do you agree with him and that his views against singapore certain sector is right?
all this are his claims mah, does not necessary represent the truth.
I am sure you would love to see more... -
if u try to spread wrong evidence and say insultive remarks and untrue remarks that affects the govt bad enough when in fact there are doing nothing wrong, then it will be defaming.Originally posted by LinYu:that is defamation? -
1000 and 1million is big difference. 1000 times bigger. what are u trying to play with numbers.Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:What if 10, 100, 1000 or even 1 million people think the same way? Are these people not Singapore Citizens? We are now showing you statistics and information that you might not have seen before in your whole life, but that is not your fault.
Singaporeans are brought up to accept and not question authority. They only read and breathe Straits Times... it's time to break out of the shell.
1 millions. you give me ur source of data collection first.
you are committing the error of appeal to popularity
quoted from logical website
Appeals to popularity suggest that an idea must be true simply because it is widely held. This is a fallacy because popular opinion can be, and quite often is, mistaken -
As quoted from jonst78, here you go:Originally posted by Gazelle:If you want to question my thoughts about this subject you should be the one to do your own research to proof me wrong.
PS> statistic of median income is easily avaiable from our government's website, since you are so keen on the subject, I would appreciate if you could digest those information and let us know what do you think.
I think my request is valid too isnt it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Singapore#Growth_in_household_income_by_decile -
if the stats was right, the ISD has already caught 34% of the voting people and put them to nowhere. which means now singapore population is down to 66.6% of it original population.Originally posted by Gazelle:Could I request you to read what the original poster is saying before replying my post.
He/She is saying that if you vote for opposition ISD will come knocking at your doors.
But how come still got so many people buying hdb flats huh??haiz.. think ISD havnt catch all the people that vote for the opposition parties. -
how do you know that improving wages to attract talents will be bad for singaporean? you can see the future liao issit.Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:I don't know how leaders and scientist from various fields can show how an increase in wages for our government, more FTs, more stepping on toes, more double taxation is going to improve the life of Singaporeans in general?
Do they even care?
are you sure that not improving wages to attract talents means that future will still be better?
not changing and changing policy are both decisions themselves. both has its uncertainty.