All out to defame our governement
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
His arguments are so ridden with fallacies, clearly, either his education was less than adequate, or his brain is.
After being confronted with so much facts, I think oxford mushroom has gone underground again. He is a master tactician in gorilla warfare (pun intended), hit and run. Think he should now be hiding in Changi Village leading a double life as a [b]proper gander (pun intended).
I am still waiting for his "I don't reply to illogical rants", since that's his modus operandi when he is not able to refute the facts presented.[/b] -
You are really stalking this guy, huh?Originally posted by maurizio13:I wonder how many scholarships they give out each year? Enough for all the poor gifted students; or just a handful.
He seems to be speaking more from his personal experience than being concerned about Singaporeans in general.
Narrow minded? The emperor cannot see that his new clothes are actually only his underwear?
Of course, I won't insist that we are right all of the time but someone like this definitely needs a really. really hard jolt before one can see reality. -
To: oxford mushroom
Looking back at your past arguments, seems like your mind is only fixated on afew topics:
1) Globalisation
a) http://politics.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=251159&page=2
b) http://politics.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=245473
c) http://politics.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=242204
d) http://politics.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=234034
e) http://politics.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=223339
f) http://politics.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=221800
g) http://politics.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=217872&page=1
2) Low wages to remain competitive
a) http://politics.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=251159&page=1
b) http://politics.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=253527&page=1
c) http://politics.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=252905
d) http://politics.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=244073
e) http://politics.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=233041
f) http://politics.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=231959
g) http://politics.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=221349&page=0
h) http://politics.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=219197&page=0
I only scan back 2 pages, there might be more.
Let me ask you something.
During PAP's Proper Gander (pun intended) Class, are you the specialist in the topics of Globalisation and Low Wages to Remain Competitive? Another common phrase use is, "live within your means". Or are you a borderline Schiziophrenic with repetitive tendency (OCD).
And I do use the term specialist loosely, too loosely judging from your response to my queries. -
I think it's not mutually exclusive. It's both!!!Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:His arguments are so ridden with fallacies, clearly, either his education was less than adequate, or his brain is.
Wahaha....... -
His gander is cooked!!!Originally posted by Rock^Star:You are really stalking this guy, huh?
He seems to be speaking more from his personal experience than being concerned about Singaporeans in general.
Narrow minded? The emperor cannot see that his new clothes are actually only his underwear?
Of course, I won't insist that we are right all of the time but someone like this definitely needs a really. really hard jolt before one can see reality.
I tried reading his explanation, it's all crap, he sidetracked everything to something irrelevant.
You asked him about how the 2 countries managed to keep their income disparity to such a low level. He gives you answer about how the rich in another totally different country, uses tax avoidance to increase the income disparity.
He is really screwed!!!
Best part is, he claims to be a doctor working in the UK. -
What does a doctor earn after graduation?
NUS grads: $3,500 - $5,000
Overseas scholarship: $5,000 - $10,000
I have spoken to many people whose income range fall between $5,000 - $25,000.
I do ask them a little on politics, their views and so on every now and then. 9 out of 10 will reply that:
- PAP is doing a good job (no flaws mentioned)
- Progress package is the govt's goodwill
- Don't complain, work hard and you will have a better life
A number of my peers (those within the 25-30 range) serve the govt service, quite a handful on scholarships. These are the ones who think really well of the PAP but can hardly agree when asked if opposition is needed. Being classmates and long time friends, I did not opinionate my views out of respect.
Let's face it too:
As long as there is little opposition in parliament, Singapore shall continue its march towards eliticism. The next generation of leaders (which will come from mine) are going to run Singapore as a corporation more than ever. Middle income earners shall continue to stagnate. Meritocracy has its positives but the cons are starkly evident too. -
PM Lee has said a few times he and his government will engage the critics in robust arguments to debunk untruths said about the government.Originally posted by maurizio13:His gander is cooked!!!
I tried reading his explanation, it's all crap, he sidetracked everything to something irrelevant.
You asked him about how the 2 countries managed to keep their income disparity to such a low level. He gives you answer about how the rich in another totally different country, uses tax avoidance to increase the income disparity.
He is really screwed!!!
Best part is, he claims to be a doctor working in the UK.
Such a challenge to debunk critics implies that he or his government is right or always right and infallible in their existing policies or actions and critics were mischievous or whinners only interested to defame or discredit his government which in essence is yet another wrong assumption.
Many cyberspace counter-insurgency agents were sent like Salman and many more who have been here to put up many stereo-typed propagandas trying to paint a bad picture of democracy and freedoms in countries which for historical reasons were unable to govern themselves irrespective of political systems but blames would always be put on democracy which in perspective has thrived and led to prosperity in many more countries. Salman too had to beat his or her retreat after being debunked by our forumers for his or her shallow and superficial hypocrisy. Has Salman really succeeded in convincing us of the righteousness of existing policies like meritocracy or pro-foreigner employment or investment incentives which put off and downgrade our own talents and prospect.
Another favorite propaganda stereotype is to repeat how great is the policy of meritocracy which at first sight seems reasonable but on close scrutiny has been misused for a long time as a convenient tool for political control of the population by putting up people of their own choice or kinds for high offices and high pays thereby stifling our political evolution.
Under such a narrow-minded meritocracy while the elites are doing well riding high on assumptions about their ability and talents the rest of the populations are left to struggle with losses of economic competitiveness, perpetual rising costs of living and competitions against influx of foreigners to safeguard their own employment statistics.
This is the comfort zone the government is taking refuge in refusing to change and let the rest of the population attaining their potentials by the broad strokes of their many unquestioned or auto-piloted assumptions. -
Well, they better start sending in more competent people, if they keep sending in jokers like oxford mushroom and gazelle, their plan will definitely backfire on them.Originally posted by robertteh:PM Lee has said a few times he and his government will engage the critics in robust arguments to debunk untruths said about the government.
Such a challenge to debunk critics implies that he or his government is right or always right and infallible in their existing policies or actions and critics were mischievous or whinners only interested to defame or discredit his government which in essence is yet another wrong assumption.
Many cyberspace counter-insurgency agents like Salman and many more have come to put up yet more and more stereo-typed propagandas trying to paint a bad picture of democracy and freedoms in countries which for historical reasons were unable to govern themselves irrespective of political systems but blames would always be put on democracy which in perspective has thrived and led to prosperity in many more countries.
Another favorite propaganda stereotype is to repeat how great is the policy of meritocracy which at first sight seems reasonable but on close scrutiny has been misused for a long time as a convenient tool for political control of the population by putting up people of their own choice or kinds for high offices and high pays thereby stifling our political evolution.
Under such a narrow-minded meritocracy while the elites are doing well riding high on assumptions about their ability and talents the rest of the populations are left to struggle with losses of economic competitiveness, perpetual rising costs of living and competitions against influx of foreigners to safeguard their own employment statistics.
This is the comfort zone the government is taking refuge in refusing to change and let the rest of the population attaining their potentials by the broad strokes of their many unquestioned or auto-piloted assumptions.
Another common tactic of oxford mushroom is to mix his intended propaganda with some truths and facts. It gives his overall paragraph more credibility. Readers don't understand the logic of his propaganda, but since they can ascertain that the other statements are facts and truth, they will readily accept his propaganda message. -
you all are too emotional and have bias towards govt policy.
Again, your views are narrow minded , thus govt policy certain point will make you feel unhappy but if you look at the big picture that govt has to consider, which people wont, they will just keep on have things to complain.
Preconceived beliefs leads to sensitive emotions. When you are angry, the blame is usually external. therefore, the solution is on moderating you emotions.
I am just like all of you. Middle class, still finding job, have gone to 2 nearby countries in my life so far, have university debt of abt 15 k, seldom spend on material stuff.
You all dun know how to manage your emotions that is why the tendency to blame others.
as i have say, if you are not rich, dun go buy a 4 room, 5 room. the moment u buy bigger house, u have money problem if u dun earn that much. stress and pressure will come, blaming will occur.
self accountability is missing.
As to whether the govt is effective with veto power, you people are assuming that by changing decision according to people wishes, thing will be better. Proof? There is tendency to assume that monopoly of govt power is always bad. This is not a universal law or proof.
Go read up more how to have simple life and achieve happiness book.
Even within the internet forum, opposition parties are convincing and building up a list of the' mistakes of govt' and thus making themselves more and more left wing without checking the validity of the sources and the reasoning.
You want to be like taiwan.. people got alot of freedom in say in politics.. newspaper can oppose govt here and there... the result.. do they have a better life? can fight in meeting also.
politics , its is easy to swing the mind of opposition and brainwash them. the opposition themselves will even brainwash themselves. We cannot therefore allow so much freedom of press.
other countries have more freedom in blaming govt, is their life better than because of that?
casuality is a complex process with many issues affecting one another over time. Go read up on psychology , physcis of time and space and causality and philosphy.
Human mind don't see the complexity in causality. Therefore, opposition will just line up several reasons in straight line and make judgments.
I am saying that you all do not have real proof that the govtment is indeed doing thw wrong things. Just a bunch of ideas and pseudo evidence.
Wont post anymore for today. -
Salman? Who's next now?Originally posted by robertteh:PM Lee has said a few times he and his government will engage the critics in robust arguments to debunk untruths said about the government.
Such a challenge to debunk critics implies that he or his government is right or always right and infallible in their existing policies or actions and critics were mischievous or whinners only interested to defame or discredit his government which in essence is yet another wrong assumption.
Many cyberspace counter-insurgency agents were sent like Salman and many more who have been here to put up many stereo-typed propagandas trying to paint a bad picture of democracy and freedoms in countries which for historical reasons were unable to govern themselves irrespective of political systems but blames would always be put on democracy which in perspective has thrived and led to prosperity in many more countries. Salman too had to beat his or her retreat after being debunked by our forumers for his or her shallow and superficial hypocrisy. Has Salman really succeeded in convincing us of the righteousness of existing policies like meritocracy or pro-foreigner employment or investment incentives which put off and downgrade our own talents and prospect.
Another favorite propaganda stereotype is to repeat how great is the policy of meritocracy which at first sight seems reasonable but on close scrutiny has been misused for a long time as a convenient tool for political control of the population by putting up people of their own choice or kinds for high offices and high pays thereby stifling our political evolution.
Under such a narrow-minded meritocracy while the elites are doing well riding high on assumptions about their ability and talents the rest of the populations are left to struggle with losses of economic competitiveness, perpetual rising costs of living and competitions against influx of foreigners to safeguard their own employment statistics.
This is the comfort zone the government is taking refuge in refusing to change and let the rest of the population attaining their potentials by the broad strokes of their many unquestioned or auto-piloted assumptions. -
Originally posted by january:
Your posts would bear more credence if you do not preach so much philosophy. You can't see this simple point, can you?
you all are too emotional and have bias towards govt policy.
Again, your views are narrow minded , thus govt policy certain point will make you feel unhappy but if you look at the big picture that govt has to consider, which people wont, they will just keep on have things to complain.
Preconceived beliefs leads to sensitive emotions. When you are angry, the blame is usually external. therefore, the solution is on moderating you emotions.
I am just like all of you. Middle class, still finding job, have gone to 2 nearby countries in my life so far, have university debt of abt 15 k, seldom spend on material stuff.
You all dun know how to manage your emotions that is why the tendency to blame others.
as i have say, if you are not rich, dun go buy a 4 room, 5 room. the moment u buy bigger house, u have money problem if u dun earn that much. stress and pressure will come, blaming will occur.
self accountability is missing.
As to whether the govt is effective with veto power, you people are assuming that by changing decision according to people wishes, thing will be better. Proof? There is tendency to assume that monopoly of govt power is always bad. This is not a universal law or proof.
Go read up more how to have simple life and achieve happiness book.
Even within the internet forum, opposition parties are convincing and building up a list of the' mistakes of govt' and thus making themselves more and more left wing without checking the validity of the sources and the reasoning.
You want to be like taiwan.. people got alot of freedom in say in politics.. newspaper can oppose govt here and there... the result.. do they have a better life? can fight in meeting also.
politics , its is easy to swing the mind of opposition and brainwash them. the opposition themselves will even brainwash themselves. We cannot therefore allow so much freedom of press.
other countries have more freedom in blaming govt, is their life better than because of that?
casuality is a complex process with many issues affecting one another over time. Go read up on psychology , physcis of time and space and causality and philosphy.
Human mind don't see the complexity in causality. Therefore, opposition will just line up several reasons in straight line and make judgments.
I am saying that you all do not have real proof that the govtment is indeed doing thw wrong things. Just a bunch of ideas and pseudo evidence.
[b]Wont post anymore for today.[/b]
And if you answer our posts directly instead of sidestepping everything with a post like that above, we would read every single word with sincerity.
Enough of replying to "empty air smacked with an overkill of philosophy". -
it's getting boring here. all the self agenda and flame war with no cream in the discussion
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To judge all who are anti-PAP as emotional is rather presumptuous on your part, don't you think so. Again, so is your judgement of all who are Anti-PAP being narrowminded. The PAP isn't infailable, and all polices and govt bodies should be able to stand up agianst scrutiny. And thats what the govt should be doing, convicing the people of their decisions. Not don't just hold a debate for the sake of an appearance of transparency when a bill or proposed policy is being intended to be implemented without vote.Originally posted by january:you all are too emotional and have bias towards govt policy.
Again, your views are narrow minded , thus govt policy certain point will make you feel unhappy but if you look at the big picture that govt has to consider, which people wont, they will just keep on have things to complain.
The cabinet should be answerable to the legistation which represents the people. But due to strict party-discipline, handed down from the British, the legislation seems to be following the executive. Hence the executive and legislation are now 1 body. No semblence of an accountablility to the poeple. They are just brushing the poeple off, with the same presumtions that you are having "There will be unhappy people etc etc.. but we are still going to do it". That is why some people are not happy, the govt doesn't listen. Phillip Jeyaretnam is far from middle class and he as spoken out agianst the Minister's pay rise, drawing sharp rebuke from the PAP. Just an example, to show that the unhappy people are nolonger just the middle class.Originally posted by january:
Preconveived beliefs do not lead to sensative emotions, insecurities do. Like how LHL or LKY get when talking about CSJ or JBJ. Like how LKY lashed out at a young journalist from S.Times on TV before last years GE, when the subject of voting PAP out of fear came up.
Preconceived beliefs leads to sensitive emotions. When you are angry, the blame is usually external. therefore, the solution is on moderating you emotions.
On the contrary, preconcieved beliefs do lead to blindly following a certain value or set of values. Which in your case, is somewhat akin to "The (economic)ends justify the means of which the PAP gets there." Hence blindly assuming the PAP is right, and saying the People who oppose the gvot lack the ability to rationalize and reason due to emotions.Originally posted by january:
Lets take the ministers pay hike for example (there are mnay others as well)
I am just like all of you. Middle class, still finding job, have gone to 2 nearby countries in my life so far, have university debt of abt 15 k, seldom spend on material stuff.
You all dun know how to manage your emotions that is why the tendency to blame others.
as i have say, if you are not rich, dun go buy a 4 room, 5 room. the moment u buy bigger house, u have money problem if u dun earn that much. stress and pressure will come, blaming will occur.
Again, I present to you, Sylvia, Chiam, TLK and Phil Jeyaretnam, they seem pretty calm and collected when puting their points across, and with strong evidence against the pay hike. (they are hardly middle class)LKY just brushes them of with claims that Singapore is in a unique situation. IMO, no less unique than any other nations on this planet.
You talk the talk, we'll see in 10 years, how you walk the walk.Originally posted by january:
It is not self accountability that is missing, it is Govt accountability to the people that is sorely missing. We are not living in a Kingdom or in an Empire. Democracy was created to enable prosperity, and also to ensure that powers do not get abused, unchecked and thus bringing the nation to its knees.
self accountability is missing.
As to whether the govt is effective with veto power, you people are assuming that by changing decision according to people wishes, thing will be better. Proof? There is tendency to assume that monopoly of govt power is always bad. This is not a universal law or proof.
If a policy is good for the people, convince the poeple, tis the responsiblity of the Government. The problem is the use authority to thumb the people down and do what they(PAP) want, for the authority the PAP has is vested in them by the people.Originally posted by january:
You are again having the preconcieved idea that encomical values is the only reason that the people are not happy with the PAP.
Go read up more how to have simple life and achieve happiness book.
Even within the internet forum, opposition parties are convincing and building up a list of the' mistakes of govt' and thus making themselves more and more left wing without checking the validity of the sources and the reasoning.Originally posted by january:
No one wants violence, I can give you a whole list of fully democratice nations that are doing well, with the non-violent protests. No one in the opposition advocates violence.
You want to be like taiwan.. people got alot of freedom in say in politics.. newspaper can oppose govt here and there... the result.. do they have a better life? can fight in meeting also.Originally posted by january:
If the government policies are good, they can stand up to scrutiny and the govt should be able to debuk convincingly. Not happening here.
politics , its is easy to swing the mind of opposition and brainwash them. the opposition themselves will even brainwash themselves. We cannot therefore allow so much freedom of press.Originally posted by january:
Yes. And there is a distinct difference, between questioning the government and blaming them. Questioning them to justify their decisions is not blaming. Contrary to your preconcieved belief that all who opposing PAP are blaming them. Personally, I want PAP to reform the very core of the system, before it gets worse.
other countries have more freedom in blaming govt, is their life better than because of that?Originally posted by january:
Do you want to be part of the list of casualties and get left behind by the govt polices?
casuality is a complex process with many issues affecting one another over time. Go read up on psychology , physcis of time and space and causality and philosphy.
Human mind don't see the complexity in causality. Therefore, opposition will just line up several reasons in straight line and make judgments.Originally posted by january:
There has been a whole list, not illegal, as they make the law. What is illegal is not always wrong, what is legal is not always right. If you want the list, I'll post it here on this thread again for your sake.
I am saying that you all do not have real proof that the govtment is indeed doing thw wrong things. Just a bunch of ideas and pseudo evidence.Originally posted by january:
If you do decide to post again, try not to make sweeping dismissive statements, its not very healthy debating.
[b]Wont post anymore for today. -
Originally posted by january:
Evidence of philoposhy in his posts. Diminishes his credibility. Philosophy and politics combined make for a potent and deadly mix of bullsh.it.
you all are too emotional and have bias towards govt policy.
Again, your views are narrow minded , thus govt policy certain point will make you feel unhappy but if you look at the big picture that govt has to consider, which people wont, they will just keep on have things to complain.
Preconceived beliefs leads to sensitive emotions. When you are angry, the blame is usually external. therefore, the solution is on moderating you emotions.
I am just like all of you. Middle class, still finding job, have gone to 2 nearby countries in my life so far, have university debt of abt 15 k, seldom spend on material stuff.
You all dun know how to manage your emotions that is why the tendency to blame others.
as i have say, if you are not rich, dun go buy a 4 room, 5 room. the moment u buy bigger house, u have money problem if u dun earn that much. stress and pressure will come, blaming will occur.
self accountability is missing.
As to whether the govt is effective with veto power, you people are assuming that by changing decision according to people wishes, thing will be better. Proof? There is tendency to assume that monopoly of govt power is always bad. This is not a universal law or proof.
Go read up more how to have simple life and achieve happiness book.
Even within the internet forum, opposition parties are convincing and building up a list of the' mistakes of govt' and thus making themselves more and more left wing without checking the validity of the sources and the reasoning.
You want to be like taiwan.. people got alot of freedom in say in politics.. newspaper can oppose govt here and there... the result.. do they have a better life? can fight in meeting also.
politics , its is easy to swing the mind of opposition and brainwash them. the opposition themselves will even brainwash themselves. We cannot therefore allow so much freedom of press.
other countries have more freedom in blaming govt, is their life better than because of that?
casuality is a complex process with many issues affecting one another over time. Go read up on psychology , physcis of time and space and causality and philosphy.
Human mind don't see the complexity in causality. Therefore, opposition will just line up several reasons in straight line and make judgments.
I am saying that you all do not have real proof that the govtment is indeed doing thw wrong things. Just a bunch of ideas and pseudo evidence.
[b]Wont post anymore for today.[/b] -
Perhaps you been reading selectively and you cannot see the reason behind the discreditation campaign here.Originally posted by LinYu:it's getting boring here. all the self agenda and flame war with no cream in the discussion -
If you have just graduated, you must be about 23 to 25 years.Originally posted by january:you all are too emotional and have bias towards govt policy.
Again, your views are narrow minded , thus govt policy certain point will make you feel unhappy but if you look at the big picture that govt has to consider, which people wont, they will just keep on have things to complain.
Singapore has seen the Ruling Political Party in power - uninterruptedly since 1957 (Self-Rule under Colonial Government) and 1965 (after brilliantly merging into Malaysia and got ourselves kicked-out due to LKY's style of politics seen as his personal ambition for a bigger political stage than this Little Red Dot can offer).
You missed out the other 20 odd years, and probably got your education filled with PAP's version of Singapore's history - and probably through the Singapore Experience Auditorium next to SAFTI ?
Angry ? After reading the entire development of this thread, in which I have decidedly taken leave from immersing into it for the last 19 pages - due to work commitment - the anger seem not to be a result of Government policy, but more directed at guys like you who seem to think that those holding negative views towards the Government are mental misfits; and believing yourselves to be absolutely correct, while providing the run-of-the-mill reasons regurgitated from Government propaganda towards the same criticisms.
Preconceived beliefs leads to sensitive emotions. When you are angry, the blame is usually external. therefore, the solution is on moderating you emotions.
Nothing new, except for the fact of new fervent disciples appearing on the scene, spouting old religious beliefs that brand all government critics as heretically anti-government.
These newly recruited disciples will have the temerity to accuse the government critics to be ingrates, while letting the Government off the hook - when it should be the Government who should be labelled as ingrates after having received the unquestionable support of the previous generations, only to allow them to languish in their old age, while this Third Generation Government will enrich themselves at the urging of the First Generation Politial Leadership.
Good luck on your next phase in your Life's oddyssey.
I am just like all of you. Middle class, still finding job, have gone to 2 nearby countries in my life so far, have university debt of abt 15 k, seldom spend on material stuff.
You all dun know how to manage your emotions that is why the tendency to blame others.
We will welcome your views again, after you have been through the next five years of having your shine worn, and as you see the realities as it is - as you try to fit yourself into a tight society while fending for a family that you wish to create for yourself, and a Life of Hope for your offsprings.
It is only a short span of time since you graduated, as matters stand you are already burdened with a debt of 15k before you even have a job; lets see how your debt continue to grow as you prepare yourself for a job, a family, a future for your children.
The debt grows, and much will depend on your earned income, and you are fortunate to have a Degree to start a career with, when others probably have less or no educational qualifications.
Do not lose empathy for those who have lesser or no qualification, and try to understand their circumstances by immersing into their environment and their World of hardship, misery, and despair.
Why should these circusmstance exist when more then two generations of Singaporeans have given their unstinting support to this same Political Party that has governed Singapore for 45 years ?
Are we not already in the First World, and in a World that MM LKY had boasted overseas that there is no poverty, no homeless, no vagrants ?
We should not forget that MM LKY had admitted that his Government had interfered and will not hesistate to dictate every aspect of Singaporean's Life - yet, should we be satisfied with this final result of seeing the neglect of the aged loyal Singaporeans left to fend for themselves after giving their total energy, loyalty, hard earned taxes - only to see themselves languishing while the Treasury is being raided to reward MM LKY and his Third Generation Leadership for their supposed brilliant leadership.
Do you think Singaporeans are an entirely foolish lot ?
as i have say, if you are not rich, dun go buy a 4 room, 5 room. the moment u buy bigger house, u have money problem if u dun earn that much. stress and pressure will come, blaming will occur.
self accountability is missing.
When a Public Housing Policy dictate Housing Types is strictly based on Gross Family Income, can anyone plan to live more frugrally with the long term view of planning for one's old age ?
Why should there be a policy that dictate that a family with a higher Gross Income will be prevented from purchasing a smaller Public Housing Unit ?
It is odd that the cost of Public Housing will absorb nearly the entire Lifetime CPF contributions earned, despite the fact that - ''In 1966, the colonial legislation on land acquisition was repealed and in its place the broader Land Acquisition Act was passed. Under the reformed Land Acquisition Act, the government can compulsorily acquire any land of private and commercial use for public interest. The Act provides for the payment of compensation, which is determined by the state. In determining the payment rate, no account is taken of any potential value for more intensive uses, only the existing use or zoned use is considered, whichever is lower. The prices paid by the HDB for the acquired lands are therefore usually much lower than the market price.''
Why should Public Housing absorb one's entire Lifetime CPF contribution, when land costs is supposed to be below market price, and with the Public Housing supposedly benefitting from Large Economies of Scale in raw materials purchases, as well as from cost savings in the uniform planning, design and construction that are repeated in mass ?
continue below -
continuation
Why are the Danes, the Swiss, and the Swedes amongst the 'Top Ten Happiest People in the World' despite a reputation of having high taxes, high costs of living, high costs for almost everything that Singapore is supposedly NOT and is able to offer more at far lower costs than Denmark or Switzerland ?
As to whether the govt is effective with veto power, you people are assuming that by changing decision according to people wishes, thing will be better. Proof? There is tendency to assume that monopoly of govt power is always bad. This is not a universal law or proof.
Is it not due to the fact that these Top Ten Countries - including Malta, which is about the same size as Singapore - has seen a closer and truer symbiotic relationship between the Citizens and the Government - in which the Citizens owns the Government and with the Citizen having a bigger say than the Government in policies that affect their Lives.
Switzerland conducts referendums on all MAJOR public policies that affect themselves, and the Government DO NOT INTERFERE in their personal lives - in the manner that MM LKY boast as his RIGHT to interfere in the Private Lives of Singaporeans.
Monopoly of power always corrupts the soul.
It gives the power holder the invincibility to dictate the Lives of others - as in the case of Chia Thye Poh, who was incarcerated on the unwavering accusation of LKY that he is a Communist bent to overthrow the legitimate Singapore Government by armed revolution; yet no evidence was raised that will substantiate such a charge in the well known politicized Singapore Court.
Similarly, in the misguided confrontation between MM LKY and the Alpha-ONE SIA Pilot Union, it led to the President of the Union to have his Permanent Residenship being revoked for his courage in organising and managing the interests of the SIA Pilots.
By itself, this reveals the naked arrogance of Monopolisitic Imperial Power - are you not disgusted that our future is on a shoe string stability ?
What is Left-Wing, and what is Right-Wing ?
Go read up more how to have simple life and achieve happiness book.
Even within the internet forum, opposition parties are convincing and building up a list of the' mistakes of govt' and thus making themselves more and more left wing without checking the validity of the sources and the reasoning.
Even Deng Xiao Peng, the late PRC Chairman, had said there is no difference between ''White Cat and Black Cat, as long as it catches the Mouse''.
China today is as capitalistic as Singapore is Communistic in Governance.
Is there any difference in the political and economics blueprint of China and Singapore ?
You want to be like taiwan.. people got alot of freedom in say in politics.. newspaper can oppose govt here and there... the result.. do they have a better life? can fight in meeting also.
At least in Taiwan, as a people, the Taiwanese is able to produce World Beating Brand Names in consumer products than Singapore, in the same time frame of history as Singapore had.
Aside from the Commercial World, what has Singapore Government to offer from the government linked military industrial groups, when the Taiwanese side can even build their own Jet Fighter Planes, Cruise Missiles, Tanks ?
Why look at the negative side of Taiwanese Politics, when it is the culture of the uncouth Taiwanese that tarnishes the freedom that Democracy provide ?
Why not look closer to Singapore, where the Malaysian Parliamentary System is more liberal than Singapore's ?
Even South Korea has seen far more progress since the demise of all its ONE Man Dictatorial Rule of Generals moving from uniforms to civilian Presidential suits, leading the country to be a new industrial power - producing leading consumer brand names, and venturing into high tech bio-sciences, as well as a strong military industrial base.
Indonesia is experimenting and re-discovering themselves with new found freedom in politics that extend to the broadcast and print media.
politics , its is easy to swing the mind of opposition and brainwash them. the opposition themselves will even brainwash themselves. We cannot therefore allow so much freedom of press.
other countries have more freedom in blaming govt, is their life better than because of that?
It allowed the press to become a watchdog in the public interest, something which the Singapore Government refused to accept the right of the Press to query for public interest.
How can the arrogance of this Singapore Government accept such a humbling position when it will not submit itself even to an Elect-President that it had created to look after Public Interests in the National Reserves ?
Your derogatory attitude towards the Alternative Parties simply show your own ability to even brainwash yourself from the constant exposure of the type of propaganda that is built around the Singapore Experience.
Is that not the same manner in which the Singapore Government react to criticism directed at them from the Alternative Parties ?
casuality is a complex process with many issues affecting one another over time. Go read up on psychology , physcis of time and space and causality and philosphy.
Human mind don't see the complexity in causality. Therefore, opposition will just line up several reasons in straight line and make judgments.
I am saying that you all do not have real proof that the govtment is indeed doing thw wrong things. Just a bunch of ideas and pseudo evidence.
Wont post anymore for today.
The knee-jerk reactions from some of the Ministers simply reveal their own desparate psychology in their hopeless effort to maintain a false image that is slowly eroding with each eager frontal assault directed at each criticism that Alternative Parties dare to air publicly.
Is it any wonder that PM LHL will even make glaring slip ups that reveal his psychological make-up in 'FIXING' the Alternative Parties ?
Time is a constant, experience is not.
Which side of the Divide - between Us and Them - will depend on the experiences that are destined for you.
We may or may not see you on our side, as time moved on and exposing you to the different experiences that your destiny will bring you to; but be a compassionate Human at least, even if you cannot be a positively sensitive one. -
Originally posted by PRP:
If the govt provides generouts reward for good ideas,then i think a lot of ppl would suggest ideas to help the govt.Would it be true?
[b]The govt has its strong & weak points
The PAP Govt has its strong points & its weaknesses.It does somethiing very well & it doesn't work on some other things.Complaining or scolding it -- understandable thou -- won't improve things. Helping it to do a better job should help improve things.But then,why should u do it if there is no reward,right?
Everybody should discharge their responsibilities too and be good persons.[/b] -
Originally posted by january:
I return the same thing to you. We are just only discussing (save for a few mocking here and there).
you all are too emotional and have bias towards govt policy.
Again, your views are narrow minded , thus govt policy certain point will make you feel unhappy but if you look at the big picture that govt has to consider, which people wont, they will just keep on have things to complain.
Preconceived beliefs leads to sensitive emotions. When you are angry, the blame is usually external. therefore, the solution is on moderating you emotions.
I am just like all of you. Middle class, still finding job, have gone to 2 nearby countries in my life so far, have university debt of abt 15 k, seldom spend on material stuff.
You all dun know how to manage your emotions that is why the tendency to blame others.
as i have say, if you are not rich, dun go buy a 4 room, 5 room. the moment u buy bigger house, u have money problem if u dun earn that much. stress and pressure will come, blaming will occur.
self accountability is missing.
As to whether the govt is effective with veto power, you people are assuming that by changing decision according to people wishes, thing will be better. Proof? There is tendency to assume that monopoly of govt power is always bad. This is not a universal law or proof.
Go read up more how to have simple life and achieve happiness book.
Even within the internet forum, opposition parties are convincing and building up a list of the' mistakes of govt' and thus making themselves more and more left wing without checking the validity of the sources and the reasoning.
You want to be like taiwan.. people got alot of freedom in say in politics.. newspaper can oppose govt here and there... the result.. do they have a better life? can fight in meeting also.
politics , its is easy to swing the mind of opposition and brainwash them. the opposition themselves will even brainwash themselves. We cannot therefore allow so much freedom of press.
other countries have more freedom in blaming govt, is their life better than because of that?
casuality is a complex process with many issues affecting one another over time. Go read up on psychology , physcis of time and space and causality and philosphy.
Human mind don't see the complexity in causality. Therefore, opposition will just line up several reasons in straight line and make judgments.
I am saying that you all do not have real proof that the govtment is indeed doing thw wrong things. Just a bunch of ideas and pseudo evidence.
[b]Wont post anymore for today.[/b]
Since you are talking about philosophy, what applies to us will be the same to you. Don't commit the same mistakes that we made (well, according to you.) -
To be fair to our government, they are doing not too badly.
But to look at things in context, all the societies dominated by Chinese in east Asia with the exception of China (which is communist, but is now capitalistic in all but name) are doing well.
As a matter of fact, it may not be an exaggeration to say that generally, the higher the proportion of Chinese in an east asian society, the better the country would be doing. Which means that we may be doing similarly well, if not better, with or without this present ruling party.
This, of course, is hypothetical. As stated, they did not do too badly. Secret societies (of the serious sort, not the bully-boy gangs these days) largely eradicated, racism kept under reasonable control, corruption not too rampant, streets largely safe etc.
But can they do better? An unequivocal yes. More accountability? Definitely. More openess? Please. -
double post
-
Hey hey. Have you forgotten history? You do know that Chinese, for the better part of history, actually enjoyed the position of slave? The peasants were expected to obey the emperor, who was perpetually a God to them. The Chinese in the past, to be frank, are a bunch of worthless slaves who had far less creativity. This is why the West superseded us in technology and Science because they were more happy to question what was right and wrong. In China, no such revolution ever occurred. As a result, China was pushed here and there for over a century before regaining their feet 50 over years ago. This is what idiots like OM have failed to see: It was through questioning what was right and wrong and not obey every single word as truth that led the West to make leaps and bounds in Science for centuries and they still continue to do so, though Japan, Taiwan and present day China show occasional sparks now.Originally posted by sourketchup:To be fair to our government, they are doing not too badly.
But to look at things in context, all the societies dominated by Chinese in east Asia with the exception of China (which is communist, but is now capitalistic in all but name) are doing well.
As a matter of fact, it may not be an exaggeration to say that generally, the higher the proportion of Chinese in an east asian society, the better the country would be doing. Which means that we may be doing similarly well, if not better, with or without this present ruling party.
This, of course, is hypothetical. As stated, they did not do too badly. Secret societies (of the serious sort, not the bully-boy gangs these days) largely eradicated, racism kept under reasonable control, corruption not too rampant, streets largely safe etc.
But can they do better? An unequivocal yes. More accountability? Definitely. More openess? Please.
And you think Secret societies don't exist in other forms? As it is, the Govt is practically a secret society in many ways, hiding all their bullshit from us know that they are outright scandalous. And then, when someone attacks their cowardice, they come all out to crush the opposition and even drive them out of the country.
The problem with this country is the stupid notion that bad laundry should not be hanged, that the nation's pride must be preserved, i.e. FACE. This incessant self-denial so prevalent in Asian society, most notably Japan, will be the death of us one fine day. -
Not surprise at all with that sort of reply you get!! The doctors especially the ones from the gahmen hospitals are die hard supporters of the ruling party, they sneered at the opposition with arrogance and condescending attitude. By the way, they also blame the patients for always complaining the high medical costs. They said that patients are one kind, why do they keep complaining when the gahmen subsidised heavily for the people. The doctors are earning very well, those senior ones get 5 digit salaries (excluding bonuses)! So are they really underpay, I doubt!!! Besides salary, they also get paid when they go see a patient in other wards (blue letter referrals).Originally posted by Rock^Star:What does a doctor earn after graduation?
NUS grads: $3,500 - $5,000
Overseas scholarship: $5,000 - $10,000
I have spoken to many people whose income range fall between $5,000 - $25,000.
I do ask them a little on politics, their views and so on every now and then. 9 out of 10 will reply that:
- PAP is doing a good job (no flaws mentioned)
- Progress package is the govt's goodwill
- Don't complain, work hard and you will have a better life
A number of my peers (those within the 25-30 range) serve the govt service, quite a handful on scholarships. These are the ones who think really well of the PAP but can hardly agree when asked if opposition is needed. Being classmates and long time friends, I did not opinionate my views out of respect.
Let's face it too:
As long as there is little opposition in parliament, Singapore shall continue its march towards eliticism. The next generation of leaders (which will come from mine) are going to run Singapore as a corporation more than ever. Middle income earners shall continue to stagnate. Meritocracy has its positives but the cons are starkly evident too.
Well, remember doctors are the elites so they think and act like the ruling party. Believe that is the reason why they got a number of doctors joining them as politicians!!! Arrogance, egoistic minds think alike!!
In fact, by getting more opposition in the parliament will only improve a little. Wanna a complete change slowly gradually vote the ruling party out of power!!! After all, Singapore really needs new blood in the political scene, we should give the present ruling party a break by allowing a new political party or the existing opposition to dominate the political scene here.
Mediacorp goes star search, we can go politicians search, ha ha!! -
I am just telling the readers oxford mushroom's technique of operation. If you read his previous post, you will notice that he's the one that starts calling others name when he can't reply to their arguments. I am sure alot of forumers can attest to that. Instead of replying to all my post, he chooses to whimper away like a dog with it's tail between it's legs.Originally posted by LinYu:it's getting boring here. all the self agenda and flame war with no cream in the discussion -
An honest Freudian Slip.Originally posted by Atobe:
Is it any wonder that PM LHL will even make glaring slip ups that reveal his psychological make-up in 'FIXING' the Alternative Parties ?