Why are the Danes, the Swiss, and the Swedes amongst the 'Top Ten Happiest People in the World' despite a reputation of having high taxes, high costs of living, high costs for almost everything that Singapore is supposedly NOT and is able to offer more at far lower costs than Denmark or Switzerland ?
Is it not due to the fact that these Top Ten Countries - including Malta, which is about the same size as Singapore - has seen a closer and truer symbiotic relationship between the Citizens and the Government - in which the Citizens owns the Government and with the Citizen having a bigger say than the Government in policies that affect their Lives.
Switzerland conducts referendums on all MAJOR public policies that affect themselves, and the Government DO NOT INTERFERE in their personal lives - in the manner that MM LKY boast as his RIGHT to interfere in the Private Lives of Singaporeans.
Monopoly of power always corrupts the soul.
It gives the power holder the invincibility to dictate the Lives of others - as in the case of Chia Thye Poh, who was incarcerated on the unwavering accusation of LKY that he is a Communist bent to overthrow the legitimate Singapore Government by armed revolution; yet no evidence was raised that will substantiate such a charge in the well known politicized Singapore Court.
Similarly, in the misguided confrontation between MM LKY and the Alpha-ONE SIA Pilot Union, it led to the President of the Union to have his Permanent Residenship being revoked for his courage in organising and managing the interests of the SIA Pilots.
By itself, this reveals the naked arrogance of Monopolisitic Imperial Power - are you not disgusted that our future is on a shoe string stability ?
Monopoly of power always corrupts the soul.always is a universal statment and is rarely true.
Why are the Danes, the Swiss, and the Swedes amongst the 'Top Ten Happiest People in the World' despite a reputation of having high taxes, high costs of living, high costs for almost everything that Singapore is supposedly NOT and is able to offer more at far lower costs than Denmark or Switzerland ?Why are the Danes, the Swiss happy then? what are they happy about precisely? i would like to know.
To judge all who are anti-PAP as emotional is rather presumptuous on your part, don't you think so. Again, so is your judgement of all who are Anti-PAP being narrowminded. The PAP isn't infailable, and all polices and govt bodies should be able to stand up agianst scrutiny. And thats what the govt should be doing, convicing the people of their decisions. Not don't just hold a debate for the sake of an appearance of transparency when a bill or proposed policy is being intended to be implemented without vote.Originally posted by january:you all are too emotional and have bias towards govt policy.
Again, your views are narrow minded , thus govt policy certain point will make you feel unhappy but if you look at the big picture that govt has to consider, which people wont, they will just keep on have things to complain.
Originally posted by january:Preconveived beliefs do not lead to sensative emotions, insecurities do. Like how LHL or LKY get when talking about CSJ or JBJ. Like how LKY lashed out at a young journalist from S.Times on TV before last years GE, when the subject of voting PAP out of fear came up.
Preconceived beliefs leads to sensitive emotions. When you are angry, the blame is usually external. therefore, the solution is on moderating you emotions.
Originally posted by january:Lets take the ministers pay hike for example (there are mnay others as well)
I am just like all of you. Middle class, still finding job, have gone to 2 nearby countries in my life so far, have university debt of abt 15 k, seldom spend on material stuff.
You all dun know how to manage your emotions that is why the tendency to blame others.
as i have say, if you are not rich, dun go buy a 4 room, 5 room. the moment u buy bigger house, u have money problem if u dun earn that much. stress and pressure will come, blaming will occur.
Originally posted by january:It is not self accountability that is missing, it is Govt accountability to the people that is sorely missing. We are not living in a Kingdom or in an Empire. Democracy was created to enable prosperity, and also to ensure that powers do not get abused, unchecked and thus bringing the nation to its knees.
self accountability is missing.
As to whether the govt is effective with veto power, you people are assuming that by changing decision according to people wishes, thing will be better. Proof? There is tendency to assume that monopoly of govt power is always bad. This is not a universal law or proof.
Originally posted by january:You are again having the preconcieved idea that encomical values is the only reason that the people are not happy with the PAP.
Go read up more how to have simple life and achieve happiness book.
Even within the internet forum, opposition parties are convincing and building up a list of the' mistakes of govt' and thus making themselves more and more left wing without checking the validity of the sources and the reasoning.
Originally posted by january:No one wants violence, I can give you a whole list of fully democratice nations that are doing well, with the non-violent protests. No one in the opposition advocates violence.
You want to be like taiwan.. people got alot of freedom in say in politics.. newspaper can oppose govt here and there... the result.. do they have a better life? can fight in meeting also.
Originally posted by january:If the government policies are good, they can stand up to scrutiny and the govt should be able to debuk convincingly. Not happening here.
politics , its is easy to swing the mind of opposition and brainwash them. the opposition themselves will even brainwash themselves. We cannot therefore allow so much freedom of press.
Originally posted by january:Yes. And there is a distinct difference, between questioning the government and blaming them. Questioning them to justify their decisions is not blaming. Contrary to your preconcieved belief that all who opposing PAP are blaming them. Personally, I want PAP to reform the very core of the system, before it gets worse.
other countries have more freedom in blaming govt, is their life better than because of that?
Originally posted by january:Do you want to be part of the list of casualties and get left behind by the govt polices?
casuality is a complex process with many issues affecting one another over time. Go read up on psychology , physcis of time and space and causality and philosphy.
Human mind don't see the complexity in causality. Therefore, opposition will just line up several reasons in straight line and make judgments.
Originally posted by january:There has been a whole list, not illegal, as they make the law. What is illegal is not always wrong, what is legal is not always right. If you want the list, I'll post it here on this thread again for your sake.
I am saying that you all do not have real proof that the govtment is indeed doing thw wrong things. Just a bunch of ideas and pseudo evidence.
Originally posted by january:If you do decide to post again, try not to make sweeping dismissive statements, its not very healthy debating.
[b]Wont post anymore for today.
All the quotes above of your post reek of sterotyoing. Phrases like "you all" at the start of your post, again implies that you are making a claim that all Opposition camp supporters are too emotional and thus unable to reason, or rationalize calmly. Thus simply dismissing all their claims with a "sweep of your hand" Whether intentional or not, thats the effect you produeced.Originally posted by january:how did i sterotype?
Fidel Castro, Macros, Suharto, Thaksin just at the top of my head, can get you more examples if you like. ButI need to eat soon.Originally posted by january:always is a universal statment and is rarely true.
Originally posted by january:For one, I can think of, independent judicary, no libel suits against opposition members. Where the voices of the people have substiantial value in the Govt.
Why are the Danes, the Swiss happy then? what are they happy about precisely? i would like to know.
from jonst78:Okay, questioning them to justify their decisions is not blaming, i agree.
Yes. And there is a distinct difference, between questioning the government and blaming them. Questioning them to justify their decisions is not blaming. Contrary to your preconcieved belief that all who opposing PAP are blaming them. Personally, I want PAP to reform the very core of the system, before it gets worse.
It is the responsibility of the leader to earn the trust and respect of those that he/she are leading. To also lead by example. Those in leadership will understand this.Originally posted by january:ok last post for today.
Okay, questioning them to justify their decisions is not blaming, i agree.
However, the governement can only explain so much to the people. If the government have to explain and convince every body fully before implementing the policies, no policies will make it true.
Tell me how many people you want to be convinced before the govt can implement the policy. Give me a figure. What if there are 10 oppose and 50 agree. 10 oppose and 1000 agree. How to draw the line.
For those here who have been leadership post yourself, like sergent or supervisor or decision making, have you been a situation where you make a decision, your underlings , some of them complain about your decisions but you carry on anywhay.
For parents, what happens when your children wants to do certain things but you disagree. When do you give in? when do you not give in?
It is again the responsiblity of the parent to justify a decision made to a mature child, to explain to the child why a decision was made.Originally posted by january:For parents, what happens when your children wants to do certain things but you disagree. When do you give in? when do you not give in?
. . . and so what is the problem you see huh? People speaking their mind, comments, views about the gahmen are opposition to you. We have our freedom to voice out here, is this an issue with you? What sort of understanding and interpretation do you have? YOu definitely don''t sound like a undergrad or grad at all!!! Why let prejudice gets the hold of you?Originally posted by january:There are only a few people on in our camp asking the opposition not to jump to conclusion based on their evidence they have brought forward.
Does not mean that they did not reply means they are necessary afraid or they admit losing liao. Life is not only about this forum, we have to do other things too. Moreover, there are so many people in the opposition in this thread.
Think what you said above should be directed to OM instead. OM is the culprit who started name calling. Please exercise wisdom, maturity, objectivity and good and sound judgement when you communicate with the people here.Originally posted by january:However, please refrain from name calling, insultive remarks, which ever side you are in.
It feels poetic, good and creative to use name calling, exaggerated and emotional colourful metaphors but its tend to sway the argument out of focus.
This is for all pple here, whether pro or opposition.
Er yah. But they have decided to insult our intelligence with arguments that are so filled with contradictions and declare them to be absolute truths.Originally posted by january:There are only a few people on in our camp asking the opposition not to jump to conclusion based on their evidence they have brought forward.
Does not mean that they did not reply means they are necessary afraid or they admit losing liao. Life is not only about this forum, we have to do other things too. Moreover, there are so many people in the opposition in this thread.
even if january reads what you mentioned above, i doubt he will be smart, mature and objective or exercise good judgement and free of prejudice to respond, interpret and think. He simply lacks maturity, substance, good judgement, fairness - so that is why he is who he is - prejudice!!!Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Er yah. But they have decided to insult our intelligence with arguments that are so filled with contradictions and declare them to be absolute truths.
You probably missed some of the earlier threads where OM reveals his very "LKY" approach to debates.
And Given the Govt has practically declared us "enemies of the state", I am not going to give them a single quarter.
No he has not. It is clear he hasn't thought through his arguments and shaken off PAP propaganda.Originally posted by rane:even if january reads what you mentioned above, i doubt he will be smart, mature and objective or exercise good judgement and free of prejudice to respond, interpret and think. He simply lacks maturity, substance, good judgement, fairness - so that is why he is who he is - prejudice!!!
as mentioned by Jontst78, you are stereotypingOriginally posted by january:how did i sterotype?
let's focus directly on 1 topic. Since you are so generic and stereotyping, then we use one exampleOriginally posted by january:However, the governement can only explain so much to the people. If the government have to explain and convince every body fully before implementing the policies, no policies will make it true.
Tell me how many people you want to be convinced before the govt can implement the policy. Give me a figure. What if there are 10 oppose and 50 agree. 10 oppose and 1000 agree. How to draw the line.
For those here who have been leadership post yourself, like sergent or supervisor or decision making, have you been a situation where you make a decision, your underlings , some of them complain about your decisions but you carry on anywhay.
For parents, what happens when your children wants to do certain things but you disagree. When do you give in? when do you not give in?
not only OM, but Gazelle as wellOriginally posted by rane:Think what you said above should be directed to OM instead. OM is the culprit who started name calling. Please exercise wisdom, maturity, objectivity and good and sound judgement when you communicate with the people here.
Not least Gazelle is a racist.Originally posted by soul_rage:not only OM, but Gazelle as well
He goes ard calling people BS and pr**ks.
If you want me to believe that the govt has credible supporters, these 2 DON'T make it.
Makes alot of sense when Singapore with a GDP $24,840 pays it ministers 2-3 times that of the President of the USA with a GDP $39,430. The best part is, Singapore has at least 10-20 of such ministers with potential for US Presidential candidacy.Originally posted by soul_rage:let's focus directly on 1 topic. Since you are so generic and stereotyping, then we use one example
"The increase in minister's pay"
So you think they are right in increasing their pay USING EVERYONE'S MONEY here and not justifying properly to us?
As a leader, decisions I make are based on the general good of the team. I think thru and then GENUINELY (the word is genuinely) seek opinions, which I WILL consider (and change if necessary) before making the final decision. I agree I cannot please everyone, but its to the consensus of the majority before the decision is made.
In the aspect of minister's pay, is this for the general good of Singapore? Did they GENUINELY listen to your opinions? Or are they just going thru the usual routine of debating for the sake of debating (when the decision has LONG being made before they even raised the topic)? Did they get the consensus of the majority, or they choose to just ignore the majority?
Low Thia Kiang, Sylvia all raised good questions on the ministers' pay increase, and not once did they answer properly to the questions, instead choosing to beat around the bush.
You can accept such sub-standards and hypocrisy from a democratic govt? You may, but I CANNOT.
oh look if u dont respect the views of others u might as well dont postOriginally posted by citymax:Hi,
I sense the battle for the next polls has already begin.
Alot of forumers are posting subject that insulted our current governement, i not sure what is their motives and what message are they bringing to the others forumers tat reads their posts.
I feel over the past 40 odd years, the government has been doing alot for the citizen in Singapore, but still get insult for their policies. I wonder what is the best treatment they want from the Government.
Should we just moved backward to the troublesome period in 1950s, think how the government help the us during the economy crisis, how the ministers assist the Sars period. They done enough to earn our respect and not insults and complains from us why they need to earn so much money.
I do agree the society need to be more democratic and free voicing of the people. But how much trust are we prepare to give to the new opposition parties.
he can't.. hes got to go through lower house, upper house and the there is the powerful senates comittee..Originally posted by maurizio13:Makes alot of sense when Singapore with a GDP $24,840 pays it ministers 2-3 times that of the President of the USA with a GDP $39,430. The best part is, Singapore has at least 10-20 of such ministers with potential for US Presidential candidacy.
I am sure the rich in USA is richer than those of Singapore, so why didn't President Bush peg his salary to the top money earners in USA.
yeah, these two are so damn full of arrogance as well. They have something in common, too, that is they have very serious bad attitude problem. These two think they have every right to call anyone anything they like, by doing so they are reflecting the sort of character they are!! Base on their behaviour here, seems that they have very bad interpersonal relationship skill. Just two "wo nao fei" here!!Originally posted by soul_rage:not only OM, but Gazelle as well
He goes ard calling people BS and pr**ks.
If you want me to believe that the govt has credible supporters, these 2 DON'T make it.
Control control, that's why people are feeling so stifled and we are really living within the fence.Originally posted by 4getmenot:he can't.. hes got to go through lower house, upper house and the there is the powerful senates comittee..
whereas in s'pore.. theres the er...well.. just pap..and pap...and pap..![]()
Or is it Pay and Pay Lee(s)? I wonder....Originally posted by rane:Control control, that's why people are feeling so stifled and we are really living within the fence.There is no "tian li" here. There is pay and pay "li"!
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How I wish it was Pay and Pay Less.Originally posted by Jontst78:Or is it Pay and Pay Lee(s)? I wonder....
Originally posted by fire & ice:
In every system, there will be fall outs.... even with HDB. If you look at the pricing, there are cheaper 3 rm/ 4 rm/ 5 rm from place to place. the hotter places are more expensive, the not so popular places are cheaper. people can choose to buy a faraway place for a "discounted rate" as compared to places in the central.
while what you say may be true, it doesn't change the fact that an entire block of residents in Choa Chu Kang collectively pays more for their flats than what a rich man pays for his holland road bungalow even though the land area they occupy are the same.
if bungalows are in Choa Chu Kang while flats are in holland road, it would satisfy demand for popular places 100 times more than it currently does without ever a decrease in revenue to govt coffers.
Lots of people have no problem buying a HDB to live in.
buying may not be a problem, problem comes 20 years down the road when the CPF is empty and there is little savings left for retirement. the house is like a huge piggy bank that you put money in but cannot take money out. if our piggy banks are ballooned, it will only mean more money stuck inside doing nothing.
But some people do choose a bigger flat when a smaller one will suffice as they demand more space for their own whims and fancy so thus they fork out more.
the govt is encouraging us to have three kids. that makes a 4-room flat a reasonable minimum requirement. so i believe most of the time it is not due to whim and fancy but rather out of necessity.
if flats are too cheap and easily paid out, people will squander away easily their only property they own and lose the entitlement to buy a new flat at subsidized rates and thus become roofless...
a property including hdb is a home and meant to be serviced out on a long term loan. people will work hard to fulfill their needs and wants and that's what the gahmen want. they want people to appreciate their home, love their home and work hard for their homes. they do not want people to squander away their only rooftop.
this could be the situation in 1965. but fast forward to 2007, the situation is entirely different. within this 40-year period, housing prices have increased by more than 10 fold whereas salaries have only doubled. the idea that houses may become too cheap cannot even be fathomed let alone be worried about.
the idea that high prices will lock the people to this land may backfire. just came across a foreign talent selling his house because he's moving to the states. son did NS which means there's intention of settling down in accordance to govt plan. yet he is leaving. why? besides having more opportunities in the US, the other reason cited was that cost of living here is fast outpacing salaries.
think about it. when a house becomes too expensive while salaries remain unchanged, it can only mean that a person has less to spend on other things. in other words, his standard of living goes down which means this place becomes less attractive than other places. in this globalised age, it can only mean more emigration, be it for singaporeans or FTs.
Originally posted by january:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Monopoly of power always corrupts the soul.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
always is a universal statment and is rarely true.
Examples: All birds have feather
All birds can fly
the observation that "absolute power corrupts absolutely" is true enough most of the time for us to believe in it. the fact there are a small number of flightless birds doesn't change the reality that most birds do indeed fly.
Why are the Danes, the Swiss happy then? what are they happy about precisely? i would like to know.
they have higher standards of living
Are you disputing the fact that not all birds that have feathers can fly ?Originally posted by january:
Post by Atobe:
Why are the Danes, the Swiss, and the Swedes amongst the 'Top Ten Happiest People in the World' despite a reputation of having high taxes, high costs of living, high costs for almost everything that Singapore is supposedly NOT and is able to offer more at far lower costs than Denmark or Switzerland ?
Is it not due to the fact that these Top Ten Countries - including Malta, which is about the same size as Singapore - has seen a closer and truer symbiotic relationship between the Citizens and the Government - in which the Citizens owns the Government and with the Citizen having a bigger say than the Government in policies that affect their Lives.
Switzerland conducts referendums on all MAJOR public policies that affect themselves, and the Government DO NOT INTERFERE in their personal lives - in the manner that MM LKY boast as his RIGHT to interfere in the Private Lives of Singaporeans.
Monopoly of power always corrupts the soul.
It gives the power holder the invincibility to dictate the Lives of others - as in the case of Chia Thye Poh, who was incarcerated on the unwavering accusation of LKY that he is a Communist bent to overthrow the legitimate Singapore Government by armed revolution; yet no evidence was raised that will substantiate such a charge in the well known politicized Singapore Court.
Similarly, in the misguided confrontation between MM LKY and the Alpha-ONE SIA Pilot Union, it led to the President of the Union to have his Permanent Residenship being revoked for his courage in organising and managing the interests of the SIA Pilots.
By itself, this reveals the naked arrogance of Monopolisitic Imperial Power - are you not disgusted that our future is on a shoe string stability ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Monopoly of power always corrupts the soul.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------always is a universal statment and is rarely true.
Examples: All birds have feather
All birds can fly
For all the things that even GCT had aspired for Singapore to achieve - a ''Swiss Standard of Living'', but could not achieve during his programmed short term as the second PM of Singapore; and straddling Singaporeans with the ''Swiss COST of Living''.
Why are the Danes, the Swiss, and the Swedes amongst the 'Top Ten Happiest People in the World' despite a reputation of having high taxes, high costs of living, high costs for almost everything that Singapore is supposedly NOT and is able to offer more at far lower costs than Denmark or Switzerland ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Why are the Danes, the Swiss happy then? what are they happy about precisely? i would like to know.