Gays : To all Singapore Religious Leaders
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Let them insult. Why are you replying them?Originally posted by PRP:Now, 2 losers of pro-gey remain.Losers only know how to insult.
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PRP --- >You hear that ?Originally posted by Isis:never-ending debate.
It is just wrong to impose ur idea onto any unwillingly party..regarding what kind of beliefs u believe is right. -
Yes, losers always get to be insulted ....Originally posted by PRP:Now, 2 losers of pro-gey remain.Losers only know how to insult. -
hi heli.. i am same as you.. free thinker ...Originally posted by chinese helicopter:I am a free-thinker so I look at this homosexual issue based on my own moral standard- I believe all men and women should be treated equal whether they are tall, short, girlish,boylish,gay, lesbians,etc. I call this human right.
Which moral standard should singaporean follow-christian , muslim, buddhist ?
I am confuse?
as far as i know ... we should not impose our religious belief on ours... -
PRP - please do not read !Originally posted by Icemoon:Moral standards have their origins in religious movements, for example the 10 commandments and feminine rights in Islam.
Indeed the govt treats homosexual equal. How are they not treated equal in any practical sense?
I am a practical person and when I mean equal, I mean equal. Not like some fuzzy rights like citizens have freedom of speech and there is this place called Speakers' Corner at Hong Lim which you can use.
Hi Icemoon
I agree with you on all humans are equal...
but i have a point to add on, that is currently i do agree the govt is treating homosexual equally in their heart.. but they can;t show it totally as there are still minority of ppl (extremists) who are against it based on their own misconceptions... and thats's why the 377A was not been able to removed... -
You sure possible ? with PRP you know ?Originally posted by Icemoon:I just want you and PRP to shake hands and be friends.
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Cos he felt insulted several times ... since only losers get to be insulted !!Originally posted by Icemoon:Let them insult. Why are you replying them? -
please put things in the right perspective: all religions have their origins in the culture and moral standards.Originally posted by Icemoon:Moral standards have their origins in religious movements, for example the 10 commandments and feminine rights in Islam.
Indeed the govt treats homosexual equal. How are they not treated equal in any practical sense?
I am a practical person and when I mean equal, I mean equal. Not like some fuzzy rights like citizens have freedom of speech and there is this place called Speakers' Corner at Hong Lim which you can use.
in the primeval times, women rights are as good as nothing and they wrote it into the holy books of many religions. it's the same for homosexuals.
if we're able to give equal rights to women then it's only right that such rights be also given to other minorities. -
Cool ...Originally posted by Jamie Zawinski:please put things in the right perspective: all religions have their origins in the culture and moral standards.
in the primeval times, women rights are as good as nothing and they wrote it into the holy books of many religions. it's the same for homosexuals.
if we're able to give equal rights to women then it's only right that such rights be also given to other minorities. -
Jan 9, 2008Originally posted by PRP:
Jobless man faces more oral sex charges
A 38-YEAR-OLD unemployed man, charged with forcing his daughter to perform oral sex on him, was slapped with five more counts on Wednesday.
He was also accused of inhalant abuse.
He was first charged in court late last year for an unnatural sex offence at a flat last January.
The fresh charges state that the incidents took place between Nov 12 and 16 last year.
His case will be mentioned on Feb 26.
Can we all condemn all heterosexuals? can we all condemn all straight guys? Can we all condemn all hetero sex?
The answer is simple - NO !
The above 38yo father is an exceptional one.. he is a bad guy ! he is a bad father! but does not mean hetero sex should be condemned ! -
please put things in the right perspective: all religions have their origins in the culture and moral standards.
Tis is a very good reply
Indeed the govt treats homosexual equal. How are they not treated equal in any practical sense?
Maybe the right to have sex legally ?
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The govt's reasoning is that there is no broad consensus on the matter yet. Moreover our society, as a whole, is still not ready to embrace that lifestyle.Originally posted by happieman:Hi Icemoon
I agree with you on all humans are equal...
but i have a point to add on, that is currently i do agree the govt is treating homosexual equally in their heart.. but they can;t show it totally as there are still minority of ppl (extremists) who are against it based on their own misconceptions... and thats's why the 377A was not been able to removed...
Many critics argue that this may lead to the govt coming out with discrimination laws targeting minorities. But they forget it is balance we are arguing about here.
And what's the big deal with 377A? So what if it is repealed? If the society is not willing to accept you, if people in general still discriminate you, do you think gays can walk proudly along the street?
With or without IR, certain religious groups still see gambling as bad. With or without 377A, certain religious groups still disapprove of homosexuality. -
Disagree. Religions set the standards. Or rather they change the prevailing standards.Originally posted by Jamie Zawinski:please put things in the right perspective: all religions have their origins in the culture and moral standards.
in the primeval times, women rights are as good as nothing and they wrote it into the holy books of many religions. it's the same for homosexuals.
if we're able to give equal rights to women then it's only right that such rights be also given to other minorities.
Look at the status accorded to women in Islam. -
According to PRP, he does not discriminate the person.Originally posted by happieman:You sure possible ? with PRP you know ?
If he fails to live up to his words, then his fault lor. -
i really have to disagree with you on this one.Originally posted by Icemoon:Disagree. Religions set the standards. Or rather they change the prevailing standards.
Look at the status accorded to women in Islam.
most societies in the modern world have adopted the secular approach and you do not see them struggling with moral issues.
and your example on islam ... prophet muhammad merely adopted the prevailing status of women during his time.
you can see that judaism, christianity and islam are basically the same religion but the status accorded to women are very different. -
I don think anyone here will discriminate PRP right? his educational level.. family background etc ..Originally posted by Icemoon:According to PRP, he does not discriminate the person.
If he fails to live up to his words, then his fault lor. -
Huh? Secular societies do not have moral issues? How about euthanasia and abortion issuesOriginally posted by Jamie Zawinski:i really have to disagree with you on this one.
most societies in the modern world have adopted the secular approach and you do not see them struggling with moral issues.
and your example on islam ... prophet muhammad merely adopted the prevailing status of women during his time.
you can see that judaism, christianity and islam are basically the same religion but the status accorded to women are very different.
So what was the prevailing status of women during the time of the Prophet? -
Whatever you see in the news, papers, media,etc .. abt the repealing of the 377A ... is just outside thingy ...Originally posted by Icemoon:The govt's reasoning is that there is no broad consensus on the matter yet. Moreover our society, as a whole, is still not ready to embrace that lifestyle.
Many critics argue that this may lead to the govt coming out with discrimination laws targeting minorities. But they forget it is balance we are arguing about here.
And what's the big deal with 377A? So what if it is repealed? If the society is not willing to accept you, if people in general still discriminate you, do you think gays can walk proudly along the street?
With or without IR, certain religious groups still see gambling as bad. With or without 377A, certain religious groups still disapprove of homosexuality.
The real fact is the govt or PM Lee is open and fair in heart ... but no choice (AT The Moment) to maintain the 377A ... even he rebuked Pro Thio (indirectly) ""... whether u agree or not, Homosexual is an inborn ..." or something like this in the debate.
So all these .. is just a matter of time .. sooner or later ... as long PAP still in power ....yeah ! -
Whether or not ... Thou shall not impose your religious beliefs on others ... Even within the same religions... they have conficting views .... but who cares !! i m a free thinker !!Originally posted by Icemoon:The govt's reasoning is that there is no broad consensus on the matter yet. Moreover our society, as a whole, is still not ready to embrace that lifestyle.
Many critics argue that this may lead to the govt coming out with discrimination laws targeting minorities. But they forget it is balance we are arguing about here.
And what's the big deal with 377A? So what if it is repealed? If the society is not willing to accept you, if people in general still discriminate you, do you think gays can walk proudly along the street?
With or without IR, certain religious groups still see gambling as bad. With or without 377A, certain religious groups still disapprove of homosexuality.
yeah -
Ever heard of symbolic measures?Originally posted by Icemoon:The govt's reasoning is that there is no broad consensus on the matter yet. Moreover our society, as a whole, is still not ready to embrace that lifestyle.
Many critics argue that this may lead to the govt coming out with discrimination laws targeting minorities. But they forget it is balance we are arguing about here.
And what's the big deal with 377A? So what if it is repealed? If the society is not willing to accept you, if people in general still discriminate you, do you think gays can walk proudly along the street?
With or without IR, certain religious groups still see gambling as bad. With or without 377A, certain religious groups still disapprove of homosexuality. While one's religious beliefs are held to be respected, those beliefs do not have the authority to piggyback on state legislation to criminalise sexual orientation.
You can yell and condemn as much as you want, but it must stop at the line of state vs private religious values. We are not a religious state, not a theocracy and we sure as hell do not want to be ruled by clerics of any religion.
Being a secular State means we draw a boundary of common space and private space for our citizens. Section 377A intrudes into the citizen's private space. A repeal of Section 377A does not remove the right of citizens to condemn, but it empowers the common space available in a larger viewpoint. -
what i meant is that secular nations do not suffer more than "religious" nations which goes to show that moral standards are irrelevant to religions.Originally posted by Icemoon:Huh? Secular societies do not have moral issues? How about euthanasia and abortion issues
So what was the prevailing status of women during the time of the Prophet?
http://www.pbs.org/muhammad/ma_women.shtml -
yup.Originally posted by Jamie Zawinski:It would be anachronistic to claim that Muhammad was a feminist in our modern sense. Yet the same present-day barriers to women's equality prevailed in 7th century Arabia, and he opposed them. Because in his own lifetime Muhammad improved women's position in society, many modern Muslims continue to value his example, which they cite when pressing for women's rights.
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So who is the govt or PM beholden to?Originally posted by happieman:Whatever you see in the news, papers, media,etc .. abt the repealing of the 377A ... is just outside thingy ...
The real fact is the govt or PM Lee is open and fair in heart ... but no choice (AT The Moment) to maintain the 377A ... even he rebuked Pro Thio (indirectly) ""... whether u agree or not, Homosexual is an inborn ..." or something like this in the debate.
So all these .. is just a matter of time .. sooner or later ... as long PAP still in power ....yeah ! -
Is okie about it ...Originally posted by Icemoon:So who is the govt or PM beholden to?
the issue is sooner or later ... yeah -
Hey, when is incest law gonna be repealed then?Originally posted by LazerLordz:Being a secular State means we draw a boundary of common space and private space for our citizens. Section 377A intrudes into the citizen's private space. A repeal of Section 377A does not remove the right of citizens to condemn, but it empowers the common space available in a larger viewpoint.
I follow ancient Egypt moral standards one leh, can?