Looks like its getting really serious....
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Did he right at the start attack you?Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:I started this thread to discuss the situation... not "advising people what to do in the stock market".
If it were a discussion, of course that would not be a problem...
... but if you look at his attitude, he starts of by attacking me... ditto Gazelle.
If they think that they are so smart, let them be... all I need to do is to point out how stupid they are with good examples and evidence of their stupidity....
There is no need for me to enlighten them...
You look at Chin Eng... did he say, "hmmm why did you use "in the line" instead of "on the line" ? ... I think "on" is more appropriate".
No he said "hahaha call yourself a writer and you use "in" instead of "on""
Of course I will attack him (and CX) for being too stupid to see that the mouse cursor is "in" and not "on" the computer screen image.
As for yourself... "soul_rage", I do not like to discuss anything with you because you are willing to come to conclusions even when there is no evidence for something.... how to talk to people like you?
You expect people to accept your beliefs. How to accept what you say at face value when you are not the son of god or a reincarnation of somebody.
It is a very big problem that you have but you refuse to acknowledge it.
Similarly, did I ever attack you right at the start?
In fact, I did not bother to continue discussing with you on the previous thread because I know nothing I say will be accepted by you.
Just as the people in this thread know that nothing they say will be accepted by you. Only Andrew's word is correct, all others are wrong.
You expect people not to attack you when you call others stupid and idiots, just because they don't agree with your opinions.
As I mentioned, what is your objective in this forum? To insult and to be hated? Or you really want to make a change to this society?
You are a bad role model for an opposition. One who attacks the Govt calling it names, and degrading your credibility. -
Agreed.Originally posted by CX:Haha... Whether the mouse cursor is "in" the screen or "on" the screen is totally beside the point.
The point that everyone has been trying to make here is that its not that your views are not welcomed but that your abusive attacks on pple who are making their views known through the same channels that you are using is really uncalled for.
U claim to be an educated professional but your approach to a discussion is no better than a cyber-thug, flaming, trolling and insulting pple.
So please... Keep it professional and the courtesy will be reciprocated. Opinions are like @ss-holes. Everybody has one and we're all entitled our views.
Deathbait, CX and I have differing opinions on the Govt, but yet, we can discuss it in an objective way, and refrained from personal attacks when opinion differs. Everyone is entitled to his opinions, and the other party, as a RESPONSIBLE and FAIR fellow human, should respect that.
You claim yourself to be a writer, blah blah. But from our discussions, you haven't been able to defend your views, choosing instead to make irresponsible claims and then using direct insults at anyone who questions your views.
You aren't even able to hold a proper conversation with us, I seriously doubt your credibility as a writer. *shakes head* -
EXACTLY! Its no big secret that I do not agree with some pple here... Its been that way for YEARS... But it would be pointless if everyone agreed with everything i said.Originally posted by soul_rage:Agreed.
Deathbait, CX and I have differing opinions on the Govt, but yet, we can discuss it in an objective way, and refrained from personal attacks when opinion differs. Everyone is entitled to his opinions, and the other party, as a RESPONSIBLE and FAIR fellow human, should respect that.
You claim yourself to be a writer, blah blah. But from our discussions, you haven't been able to defend your views, choosing instead to make irresponsible claims and then using direct insults at anyone who questions your views.
You aren't even able to hold a proper conversation with us, I seriously doubt your credibility as a writer. *shakes head*
we are here to share views and discuss so the pre-requisite is to have an open mind. don't agree? feel free to debate, offer counter-views and point out flaws in the arguments.
But it is pointless to just insult, troll and flame. -
GIC is planning to invest in UBS.
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/ap/20071210/tbs-as-fin-com-singapore-ubs-3c8dc0d.html -
what he saidOriginally posted by CX:EXACTLY! Its no big secret that I do not agree with some pple here... Its been that way for YEARS... But it would be pointless if everyone agreed with everything i said.
we are here to share views and discuss so the pre-requisite is to have an open mind. don't agree? feel free to debate, offer counter-views and point out flaws in the arguments.
But it is pointless to just insult, troll and flame. -
Of course... I am not so sure about this thread but certainly in the forex/gambling thread...Originally posted by soul_rage:Did he right at the start attack you?
... and worse of all, he stupidly issued me empty threats which was a big laugh...
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UBS wrote off another $10 billion due to the US sub-prime crisis and according to BBC, Singapore and a Middle Eastern country invested in UBS because they need the funds after writing off so much.Originally posted by will4:GIC is planning to invest in UBS.
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/ap/20071210/tbs-as-fin-com-singapore-ubs-3c8dc0d.html
The 10 billion write off might not be the end of it and if it is not, then investing in UBS at this time might not be a wise decision. -
... but at least Dr Tony Tan is not a Ho and a Jinx.... and even if UBS drops further, at least he bought at the low and not like the Jinx, that bought at the high (Barclays)... and sold at the low (Bank of China)...
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The investment gave them a 9% stake... Its a decent bargain by most measures and they would never be able to buy in if they weren't so tragically exposed.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:UBS wrote off another $10 billion due to the US sub-prime crisis and according to BBC, Singapore and a Middle Eastern country invested in UBS because they need the funds after writing off so much.
The 10 billion write off might not be the end of it and if it is not, then investing in UBS at this time might not be a wise decision.
As for $10 billion "not being the end of it", its overly pessimistic.
The $10 billion constitutes between 60% to 70% of its total exposure, estimated at around $19 billion.
It is more rigorous than what other banks had done.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/12/10/bcnubs210.xml
And its not the first bank in recent months to go hat-in-hand to shop for institutions and individuals willing to pump in money to help them ride out the crisis. Citi just did that and were warmly received by middle-eastern oil money. -
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au contraire, the thread that actually brought me into this forums was the market crash one.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:Of course... I am not so sure about this thread but certainly in the forex/gambling thread...
... and worse of all, he stupidly issued me empty threats which was a big laugh...
Here's where my first post to Andrew was:
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=270654&page=11
Yes, i came out guns blaring at Andrew, but only because I had to sit through an hour of reading the crap he had been sprouting for ten pages before i arrived. I never intended to post, but I saw some people actually believing in his theories. Ok seriously, he was advocating 3 trades per decade. There was no way I was keeping mum after I saw ppl were taking him seriously.
Trading is my bread and butter, and everything Andrew has said to this point has been completely alien to me. He doesn't determine the odds before he trades. He trades only on insiders information. He makes 3 trades a year. He prides himself in knowing markets so well he can predict crashes, but does not even know the STI components are public knowledge.
He predicts crashes. They don't come. He claims to profit off crashes, but only after the fact. He blames temasek for "mistakes" that are really variance. He throws insults as a defensive mechanism and refuses to reveal details of his analysis.
Andrew claims to have been a training manager for a member company of SIMEX, but refuses to go into details. The head of cleaning services of that company could hold that same title btw. He writes a book against gambling in the casino, then reveals he knows next to nothing about what happens in a casino. He talks about the forex, but doesn't even know how it works.
He bashes forex traders, then turns around and boasts that he made many off the baht. He bashes TA, then draws out charts to prove temasek should have seen crashes coming. He gives vague statements, and refuse to elaborate when questioned.
Andrew claims to have written a book. But it is not published. Andrew uses his credentials as an "author" as an argument itself. Andrew claims to have been part of the process of commodities trading, but he's now a IT consultant. That is a really strange career move by the way, and he has never answered my very first question to him. Did you blow up, Andrew? -
and did I mention he makes fun of ppl's names?Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:... but at least Dr Tony Tan is not a Ho and a Jinx.... and even if UBS drops further, at least he bought at the low and not like the Jinx, that bought at the high (Barclays)... and sold at the low (Bank of China)...
This isn't exactly what I would call the behavior that experts display. -
Just recently, UBS wrote off about $5 billion and at that time, it thought that was enough.Originally posted by CX:The investment gave them a 9% stake... Its a decent bargain by most measures and they would never be able to buy in if they weren't so tragically exposed.
As for $10 billion "not being the end of it", its overly pessimistic.
The $10 billion constitutes between 60% to 70% of its total exposure, estimated at around $19 billion.
It is more rigorous than what other banks had done.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/12/10/bcnubs210.xml
And its not the first bank in recent months to go hat-in-hand to shop for institutions and individuals willing to pump in money to help them ride out the crisis. Citi just did that and were warmly received by middle-eastern oil money.
Another thing is that the sub-prime crisis is not over yet and the damage is not contained yet.
Right now it is any-body's guess.
But like I said, at least Dr Tan bought at the low.... still you cannot assume that this is as low as it gets... the nature of the sub-prime crisis, which you might not be familiar with, suggests that the worst might not be over.
There is now so much opacity in the financial markets that even central banks are thought of as being in the dark and have limited influence compared to just five years ago.
It is better to be prepared and not to slack, even as it is pointless to fret about it. Like I said before, when you in the know and you are prepared, you can sleep peacefully. (Of course, if you are completely in the dark, you can sleep soundly too.)
It is also easier to capitalize on the situation if you are conversant with the situation.
If you think that it was just plain dumb luck that I sold stocks (documented) in July and bought (documented) Thai Bahts in mid-November, think again.
Just because it was not dumb luck, knowing when to buy and sell is but a very small and even insignificant aspect of the whole process of investing.
It is when people believe that "odds ARE everything" or "as long as you get it right" or other simplistic one dimensional thoughts that will destroy them. You have to get all the pieces right and any missing piece will destroy you. -
... investing is like flying the space shuttle... on take off, a loose piece of foam hit a very small part of the outer layer tiles that provides thermal protection... and on re-entry, the whole orbiter disintegrated...
... or because of a frozen gasket, the Space Shuttle Challenger exploded on take off...
... small, insignificant issues that caused the orbiters to explode... and investments are like that... the devil is in the details... and it is the small insignificant issues that destroy people... -
I have to point out the obvious of course. It's not considered documented if you document it AFTER the fact.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:If you think that it was just plain dumb luck that I sold stocks (documented) in July and bought (documented) Thai Bahts in mid-November, think again.
It's like me claiming now that I shorted just before 9/11 and consider this as documentation. It doesn't work.
You may point out that you DID predict the baht would appreciate against the SGD at some point. But then again, you also predicted many things that never happened. If we were to assume that you did indeed act on all your predictions, you would still not be considered a good investor.
I'm a student of mathematics. I believe in variance, not luck. And your correct predictions against the incorrect ones are pretty much in line with the predicted results of random guessing. Especially when you cannot give reasons to justify the predictions(or at least reasonable reasons).
Seriously. You can take a bus to Thailand? What kind of justification is that? -
And you like to make fun of my statement of the odds. But I've challenged you to come up with a single reason why my statement is wrong, and you have drawn a blank for weeks.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:It is when people believe that "odds ARE everything" or "as long as you get it right" or other simplistic one dimensional thoughts that will destroy them. You have to get all the pieces right and any missing piece will destroy you.
Just because you FEEL it's wrong(with your limited knowledge of what sweeping statements are) doesn't make it wrong. I'm happy to concede this point if you could just give me one reason why it's wrong.
So far, the only attempt you've made to prove it wrong is provide a link to an online site that gives away free odds calculation programs for online poker. I mean, seriously now....what was that supposed to prove? -
by buying into barclays and ubs, singapore is in the game and we get more information and transparency of the country's money. the downside is that the national reserves are having more equity exposure. i wonder whether it is prudent and whether singapore is the only country which risks so much of its reserves in equity investments since equity is volatile as compared to sovereign bonds. -
... but as you can see, the US$ has been declining and so if you are holding on to US Bonds, there are no guarantees either....
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... what I like most about the UBS purchase is that the circumstances that led to the purchase are open and transparent.
... UBS provided for the sub-prime losses and the investment in UBS would be most excellent if the bank over-provided for the losses...
... given the track record and management philosophy of UBS, that is a distinct possibility... making this an excellent investment opportunity....
... UBS is Swiss and its shares are not priced in US$ but swizzies...
... and Dr Tony Tan turned down the position of prime minister.... but we shall see... people change.... I do not see in him for the time being, a despotic person practicing cronyism, nepotism and behaving like a Ho Jinx.. -
What? There are no stupid people in this world?Originally posted by soul_rage:In fact, I did not bother to continue discussing with you on the previous thread because I know nothing I say will be accepted by you.
Just as the people in this thread know that nothing they say will be accepted by you. Only Andrew's word is correct, all others are wrong.
You expect people not to attack you when you call others stupid and idiots, just because they don't agree with your opinions.
You should learn from CX... the only problem I have with him is his inability to see that the mouse cursor is in the image of the computer screen... but he doesn't say stupid things like "xxx is everything" or like you, willing to accept / say things without proof and evidence and is still so proud of it...
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... and another thing, I certainly do not care a hoot what you think of me and whether or not you hate me... if you are stupid, I will say so... if you are insane, I will say so... especially if you attack me...
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oooo you started off so well with the first paragraph.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:... what I like most about the UBS purchase is that the circumstances that led to the purchase are open and transparent.
... UBS provided for the sub-prime losses and the investment in UBS would be most excellent if the bank over-provided for the losses...
... given the track record and management philosophy of UBS, that is a distinct possibility... making this an excellent investment opportunity....
... UBS is Swiss and its shares are not priced in US$ but swizzies...
... and Dr Tony Tan turned down the position of prime minister.... but we shall see... people change.... I do not see in him for the time being, a despotic person practicing cronyism, nepotism and behaving like a Ho Jinx..
unfortunately, it's the usual rambling from there on. -
U have a nice long post tat effectively says nothing...Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:Just recently, UBS wrote off about $5 billion and at that time, it thought that was enough.
Another thing is that the sub-prime crisis is not over yet and the damage is not contained yet.
Right now it is any-body's guess.
But like I said, at least Dr Tan bought at the low.... still you cannot assume that this is as low as it gets... the nature of the sub-prime crisis, which you might not be familiar with, suggests that the worst might not be over.
There is now so much opacity in the financial markets that even central banks are thought of as being in the dark and have limited influence compared to just five years ago.
It is better to be prepared and not to slack, even as it is pointless to fret about it. Like I said before, when you in the know and you are prepared, you can sleep peacefully. (Of course, if you are completely in the dark, you can sleep soundly too.)
It is also easier to capitalize on the situation if you are conversant with the situation.
If you think that it was just plain dumb luck that I sold stocks (documented) in July and bought (documented) Thai Bahts in mid-November, think again.
Just because it was not dumb luck, knowing when to buy and sell is but a very small and even insignificant aspect of the whole process of investing.
It is when people believe that "odds ARE everything" or "as long as you get it right" or other simplistic one dimensional thoughts that will destroy them. You have to get all the pieces right and any missing piece will destroy you.
Within context: we are now talking about GIC pumping in money into UBS... Good idea or bad idea.
And you are saying:
1) yah they bought low, but dunno low enuff or not.
2) too much unknown in the market. even central banks have limited influence.
3) must be prepared and not slack, but pointless to fret about it (since there's too much unknown and even central banks have limited influence?)
Can we be more grounded and specific please? And maybe your Thai baht illustration is simply not so relevant here? -
To you it says nothing because you are a dualistic person... google/wiki are your friends...Originally posted by CX:U have a nice long post tat effectively says nothing...
Within context: we are now talking about GIC pumping in money into UBS... Good idea or bad idea.
And you are saying:
1) yah they bought low, but dunno low enuff or not.
2) too much unknown in the market. even central banks have limited influence.
3) must be prepared and not slack, but pointless to fret about it (since there's too much unknown and even central banks have limited influence?)
Can we be more grounded and specific please? And maybe your Thai baht illustration is simply not so relevant here?