Free Tibet!!!!
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But as you pointed out, people unfortunately buy into Western propaganda and automatically align themselves with the Western (read: American) view.
No choice, Singapore is pro-USA, so they spread pro-USA propaganda in the mainstream media.
Naive and gulliable who follow the propaganda media here naturally get influenced by it.
Sad really.
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Originally posted by deathbait:
I don't recall the students in Tiananmen ATTACKING the military.
The students did not show respect to the leaders when they demanded democratic reforms. They either ended up dead, injured or jailed. Some student leaders managed to escape to freedom.
The Tibetans will have it worse since it was reported that they have used violence.
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I cannot believe you are using sources from www.freetibet.org to make a point. It is like using the Bible as evidence that God exists. Or citing from opoch times to justify the Falungong’s claim that there is organ harvesting of Falungong followers in China (which by the way, both the Department of State of USA and overseas Chinese dissents have discredited after their independent investigations). All of which are unreliable because information stemming from an interest group cannot be used as unbiased evidence to support the claims made by this interest group. I am sure you know this point. Don’t you. That is why you were taking another former to task when he was citing from People’s Daily for a pro-China opinion. Better practice what you preach…
now I am curious, it seems to be that these are unreliable information, because, they were from a special interest group ? ... fine, and People's Daily, in your own words, for a pro china opinion ... is thus, reliable ? Are you supposing that Xinhua or people's daily have no "special interests" ? .... or is it really because these uncomfortable pictures does not conform with your views of things, and you have to backpedal your words ? ... or these conform to your world view ?
first, chaps here said the pictures doesn't exist, next, they showed chinese deaths, (in tibetan monk robes ?), next some say these are tibetan rioters shot dead for violence, you said they were tibetans hacked to death ... and then now they were unfortunately caught in a cross fire ? .... Ditto the official chinese line ... first xinhua says no death, then a deaths of han civilians, then some tibetans were killed, but all were violent rioters, and now they say, yeah, a few were caught in the cross fire ..... cross fire ?!?! ... the tibetans are arming themselves with guns now ? .... woah ! ...... it reads suspiciously like the official chinese line during time of the SARS crisis doesn't it ? ... ... first there was no epidemic, then only a few deaths, and everything is under control, then it's not spreading at all .... mean while, people in other countries kept dying ......
You are either totally missing the point or you are deliberately diverting the issues here. I WAS NOT questioning about the CCP’s faults in the SARS and Food and All. I WAS NOT! But you are so fond of REGURGITATING all those examples again and again as if they provide the ultimate answers to the questions that this thread intends to inspire, apparently to make me "uncomfortable", as you put it.
Listen to this: I was not questioning the credibility of Western media’s reports AGAINST THE CHINESE OFFICAL REPORT. Therefore, it is an irrelevant question from you when you asked: “how are people going to be expected to believe in the official Chinese line in the light of these ?”
I was not questioning the credibility of the western media either, you really need to do a closer reading of my posts .... I was questioning the credibility of the CHINESE media, I am saying that people would judge China based on her actions in the past, and would judge the word of the chinese goverment and official media based on the words of her past too, as uncomfortable as it is for you .... you can scream that you're diverting the issue ... but do you honestly think the minds of people would operate otherwise ? ... :lol:
in case you didn't get all that ... I shall put it to you again ...
The chinese goverment and chinese citizen forumers like you can seethe in indignation for all you want ... but I have shown you, twice now, why people are more inclined NOT to believe in the official chinese media ... people do remember her past history of cover-ups, untruths, if not out-right lies .... the SARS crisis, the poisoned dumplings, and fake blood proteins are the most recent examples to illustrate that ... though I can imagine you thumping your keyboard at me bringing all that up again ....
When you tell people there's no epidemics, everything was under control, while people overseas are dying, you loose credibility, when you thump your chest and scream that it's all a plot to tarnish china's reputation, it doesn't change the fact that people died of dodgy dumplings and fake blood protein overseas ... and people would remember the local health authorities ban on chinese stewed pork ..... when you tell people one side of the story, but there's a ban on journalists and visitors from overseas, there is thus no way of independant verification .... if only the official, censored and sanitized version of the story is allowed to get out ... people overseas would judge what they hear based on the veracity of what they have heard in the past ...... rhetorics and screaming matches can't change these facts you know ... screaming "MEI YOU !" ... or that " IT"S ALL A PLOT TO DISCREDIT CHINA !" wouldn't change anything at all .....
so now I shall use an even simpler analogy for you, in the hopes that you can understand ... Have you heard of the story of the boy who cried wolf ? ..... cry wolf too many times, and people will stop believing in you .... and would not believe you when you need them to believe you the most ..... in the light of my above paragraph ... how would the people outside think, really ? .... honestly ? .... dispassionately ? ....
The ultimate irony here, is that some of the official chinese claims may even be true .... but people will remember the SARS deaths, remember the dodgy goods, and dodgy foods and dodgy drugs ... remember the actions of the chinese goverment in tiananmen, and then, when they listen to rhetorics blaming the "dalai lama clique" blaming it all as an anti-chinese western plot .... listen to the indignations and rantings of the supposedly aggrieved party in this case .... wouldn't it sound suspiciously similar to past rantings ? ... "IT"S ALL A PLOT TO DISCREDIT CHINA" ... yeah ... heard it all before ... just like the time of the last food scares ... and doesn't it sounds suspiciously like osama bin laden's anti-western rants ? ... of a jihad against Islam ? ....
Now listen to this carefully: There is a difference between truthful negative reports and UNTRUTHFUL negative reports. I am taking issue with the UNTRUTHFUL negative reports here. Are you trying to justify the UNTRUTHFUL reports? Is this logic CLEAR to you?
TRUTH eh ? .. in light of what I have written above .. yet again, what and who would the world likely believe in ? ... what would they take as the "truth" ? .... or you're going to tell me these pictures doesn't show dead tibetans ? .... doesn't show bullet wounds ? .... or they are faked, staged, fabricated ? ...
http://www.freetibet.org/press/kirtiphotos.html
so who's really to blame for all that ? ... after crying wolf so many times .. what's different this time ? ... the language the same, the shifting official stance's the same, the ban on foreign reporters the same, the vehement anti-western rhetoric's the same .... *blased yawn .... heard it all before .... go on ... " lang lai le ! " ......
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Fatum, besides Tibetan independence movement, which other independence movement do you support?
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
Fatum, besides Tibetan independence movement, which other independence movement do you support?
He also support independence movement in Iraq..........if China is the country that is occupying Iraq now.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
Fatum, besides Tibetan independence movement, which other independence movement do you support?
I think he also support the independence of Quebec in Canada.
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Tibet, the 'great game' and the CIA
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i think the chinese did a poor job managing this crisis. it shot itself in the foot when it refused the foreign press in to report the situation in tibet. now, most foreign reports are one-sided, often critical of the chinese authority. the way it blocked out internet sites and blanket ban of negative reporting of the events unfolding in tibet also position itself in poor light to the international community on their take on censorship and human rights records.
when its intelligence sense trouble brewing early on, it could have quickly act to quell the unrest through a show of force and willingness to negotiate with the tibeten trouble makers.
too pre-occupied with the olympic glories, it got blindsided by all these. if the french quarters succeed in persuading some countries to boycott the opening ceremony, it will be a critical failure on the part of the chinese to show the world that 'the leopard can change its spots'.
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Originally posted by drawer:
No one should suffer under Chinese Communist Pigs ruling!!!!Tibet,Xinjiang and Taiwan should declare independence from Communist China.
Fuk the Communist Pigs!!!!
I agree+10 -
the point isn't about Western bias or China being historical accurate or politically who owns Tibet.
People...understand what is at stake here --- We are loosing Humanity. We are loosing the unique feature of a Buddhist Tibet form of teaching. That are center in peaceful observation and translated the message of peace thru Medala art form to connect to the collective humanities. This is a priceless loss to the world.
Tibet and its believe is their way of life and culture. It is inseparable to tell those folks what not to practice is to ask them not to be Tibetan
Report on the Rejection of forceful Patriotic education came out as early as 2005.
To inject Communist version of Patriotic education on Tibetan monk is no different than sonar distracting Whales and mislead them onto the shore on mass suicidal.
It is as good as the action of Taliban to blow up the Buddhist rock sculptured in Afghanistan. A path lead to destruction.
Loosing humanity in your face and fail to realizes that means you loose your own moral compass in the long run. Think about it. At least the outsider happened to be the West can see clearer picture.
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Tibet, the 'great game' and the CIA
And your point being ? by bring a Cold War relics to blame the US for interfering on Tibet!
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CNN: What's wrong with you?
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One point to be conceded upon is that the Chinese government does suffer from a credibility problem. This stems on one hand, from the lack of transparency in the way they handled certain issues. On the other hand, outside opinions have been wrongly manipulated by Western media to oftentimes purposefully put China in a negative light.
Below are just a few examples of actual news report with my commentaries, to illustrate my argument:
It is known that the Western world, as the largest consumer of the earth's limited resources, has been the largest air polluters on this planet since the industrial revolution. And this trend is likely to continue. However, it is rising China that apparently needs to be blamed for air problems, as this news (from Reuters) headline sensationally suggests: In pure Arctic air, signs of China's economic boom:
http://www.reuters.com/article/inDepthNews/idUSL042626620070910?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0
It is true that China is contributing to air problems, to the extent that perhaps every nation is. What baffles me is why China got singled out, especially in the headline of that news report. Suffice it to say that the West remains to be the biggest polluters on this planet. Strangely, India, no less a polluter than China is, rarely gets censured for pollution problems. So what is the agenda behind such reports that single out China?
Another news report from Reuters bears this title: "Texas turtles ending up in China soup pots". Link to the article is provided below:
http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSN1021710120070722
The article discusses the shrinking population of Texas turtles, which the author somehow manages to blame China for. She remarks that it is “China's taste for Texas turtle meat” that is causing the decline of the turtle population. However, after reading the remaining parts of the article, one finds no evidence no substantiate this claim. In fact, the article cannot even prove that the turtles are actually being shipped to China. It only vaguely reports that the turtles are being exported to “ASIA”. But that clearly did not prevent the author of the report to make the preposterous claim that China is the reason for Texas' turtle disappearance. For the less discerning mind, they would easily be led to believe that Texas' turtle's population decline is indeed China's faults. What is the agenda behind such reports?
China also routinely gets criticized for its supposedly increased military expenditure. As an Editorial in Straits Times on 7 June 2006 points out, "...the Pentagon is focused - not unwisely, because that is its primary job - on China's continuing military bulk-up. Americans are warned regularly, through periodic reports and episodic statements, about its relentless ferocity." America and those who share their views, has been consistently voicing objections on China's military growth. However, the Editorial sharply points out the hypocrisy: "What precise theory of exceptionalism would allow the United States to forge ahead militarily, spending far more of its national treasure on arms both proportionately and aggregately than other countries, but would also forbid other nations from doing the same?". Once again, what is the agenda behind censuring China?
Suffice it to say that Western bias hit a sky-rocketing high in their recent coverage on the Tibet riots. Western reporters have used pictures from police brutality scenes in India and Nepal to accompany their sensational report on Tibet, with the apparent objective to show that China was cracking down on "peaceful demonstrators". Clearly they did not expect their audience would be discerning enough to tell the difference between a Chinese face and an India/Nepalese one. If they would not hesitate to use completely unrelated pictures in their reports, on what basis would one accord their written reports with credibility?
The following link is just one sample of the "integrity and objectivity of Western journalism:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3538028.ece
CNN and other American media have likewise been editing photos from Tibet such that the scenes of Tibetan's violent and bloody rioting is not shown in their reports. This was apparently to fit their report that the Tibetans were having "peaceful demonstrations" and that the Chinese police were cracking down on, well, "peaceful demonstrators".
The deliberate distortion in Tibet reporting practiced by the Western media is pointed out by one article from New American Media (http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=0db406a8bd056cbbd2119742f01dba4a):
“Mainstream media is quoting unverified or unconfirmed casualty figures and showing inappropriately edited photos. In one case, CNN cropped a photo that originally showed Tibetans throwing stones at a Chinese military vehicle. By cutting the right side where the Tibetan crowd is, the remaining part of photo becomes a scene of the vehicle chasing running people.”
Western media's bias against China is also palpable as far as individuals' perception is concerned. A Chinese person (most likely also a naturalized US citizen) who has stayed in America for the past 20 years, has the following to say with regard to the extremely unfair portrayal of China in Western media:
"And I'm a Chinese living in the US for 20 yrs. I watch and read news everyday. Out of my 20 years of news reading, I can count with the 10 fingers of my hand how many times there was ANYTHING positive about China reported in the news. And on the negative side? Try count the stars. The fact is the western media is so damn biased against China, that if you read their news only, you probably think Chinese ppl are still living in the caves. And then out of no where they'll make you believe China is going to take over the world. Its just hilarious ."
Official media in other parts of the world (unaffiliated with China) have also recognized the bias against China from the West. Straits Times, in its editorial on Mar 26, 2008, while pointing out China's credibility issue, also takes Western media to task for their lack of objectivity: "Their (Western media) pathological biases evident when reporting anti-government events in China have been a persistent weakness.
Suffice it to say that Western bias against China is not just my "indignant chest-thumping", as one forumer has tried to portray me as doing, apparently to achieve the purpose of ridicule. Western bias against China is real. Some elements here seem rather fond of re-cycling and re-hashing their censorious opinions on China's handling of SARS and whatnot, apparently for the purpose to justify the distorted reports that the West has been spinning on the Tibet incident. The weakness of the argument lies in the failure to see that such blatant distortion of facts should never be tolerated, no matter to which it is directed.
One’s position starts to look perilously precarious when one harps unstoppably on China’s problems in an attempt to rationalize and justify the bias and injustice the West has subjected China to. One could detect the stench of double standards here.
China is indeed beset with many problems (one of which perhaps is that it has not succumbed to the ideological assimilation the West has been vehemently practicing to the rest of the world since the Cold War). Such problems could be discussed constructively. But there is a difference between a rigorous discussion and pure bashing. When one starts to revel in harping unstoppably on China’s problems in an attempt to rationalize and justify the bias and injustice the West has subjected China to, one's bigotry and ignorance is exposed.
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Western mainstream media single out and target China for special treatment because they fear China's growing strength and they hate the fact that China does not kowtow to western dictates.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
Western mainstream media single out and target China for special treatment because they fear China's growing strength and they hate the fact that China does not kowtow to western dictates.
There is also a view based on religion. Here is one post from BBC's Have your say section:
Added: Friday, 21 March, 2008, 17:17 GMT 17:17 UK
The Westerners are incapable of changing their biases. The sentiment is rooted in their religion. Christian churches are hostile to China because China does not believe in god. It makes every Christian Westerners mad if you tell them there is no god. Therefore, China is seen as a suppressive monster against Christianity. The Western mother bigots pass such racist prejudice onto their children, generation by generation. In Western media, China is never ever right; not even once.
John Hunt-Sun, Beijng, China
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Are the chinese people getting more religious now butcherer, now that Beijing has relaxed their controls on it?
I consider myself a Taoist.
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Another news report from Reuters bears this title: "Texas turtles ending up in China soup pots". Link to the article is provided below:
Why would there be agenda on this issue! For you who is in SG perharps you don;t realized but let me share this with personal experience. Turtle is not in American diet. Perharps in the South you can find it in Soul Food from the earlier generation, but rarely cook and eaten in these days.
1988 when I was in the US, i don;t see that sold in the any commercialized market. 2005 I was shock to see it was sold only in Asia market and it is wildly served in Chinese resturant in California. When I enquired about the source thinking it was import from China i was wrong it was domestics wild caught. So rignt now Turtle is sold in the US Asian market and chinese resturant. It is a popular dish on Claypot. People do not sell part or portion of turtle but they are sold and cook the entire turtle. I was told that Turtle is better than those sold in HKG and China as they are not farm breed.
So why would this be an agenda? Ever thought that there are Paranoid.
Chinese eating habit is under scrutinzed maybe because we eat to live and not have to eat up the entire species.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
Are the chinese people getting more religious now butcherer, now that Beijing has relaxed their controls on it?
I consider myself a Taoist.
I wouldn't be able to know really. But I am not. And this does not have anything to do with government relaxation or not.
I woundn't put Taoism in the category of religion at least not in the same category as Christianity. The latter imposes a rather restrictive view of the world and is rather intolerant of other religions. Taoism is more about peace in mind and harmonious living i think.
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Taoism is more a philosophy on the nature of life and how to live it.
Yin and Yang must balance, there cannot be excesses.
For example, political power in Singapore now is not in balance, one party the PAP dominates the system, therefore the people are unhappy.
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Western mainstream media single out and target China for special treatment because they fear China's growing strength and they hate the fact that China does not kowtow to western dictates
Why would the West be worry about China? The West has already accepted China as a supper power. And it has recognizes its position internationally. Have you not see US is asking China to take up responsibilities on Dafur, Myanmar, Iran and north korea.
Did the world try to stop China from biding its international status? blocking Taiwan? did the state department issue strong condemation on China use of force on Tibet? Nope.
What is concern among the West is that they have not see China taking up its international responsibilities. but continue a path of self interest. And a world that is competing resources to place self interest first. China does not have the track record of being a peace maker either.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
Taoism is more a philosophy on the nature of life and how to live it.
Yin and Yang must balance, there cannot be excesses.
For example, political power in Singapore now is not in balance, one party the PAP dominates the system, therefore the people are unhappy.
Yup. BUt well at least PAP is a competent government. When those Western journalists wrote articles with un-substantiated claims on them, Lee Kuan Yew was able to sue their ass off. I wish someone in the Chinese government would be equally sharp to be able to do the same to those lying SOBs from CNN, BBC and the like...
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USA criticises China's military power and continues to arm Taiwan. EU still has a weapons embargo on China.
They want China to be a "responsible" power, which means kowtow to western interests and dictates.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Another news report from Reuters bears this title: "Texas turtles ending up in China soup pots". Link to the article is provided below:
Why would there be agenda on this issue! For you who is in SG perharps you don;t realized but let me share this with personal experience. Turtle is not in American diet. Perharps in the South you can find it in Soul Food from the earlier generation, but rarely cook and eaten in these days.
1988 when I was in the US, i don;t see that sold in the any commercialized market. 2005 I was shock to see it was sold only in Asia market and it is wildly served in Chinese resturant in California. When I enquired about the source thinking it was import from China i was wrong it was domestics wild caught. So rignt now Turtle is sold in the US Asian market and chinese resturant. It is a popular dish on Claypot. People do not sell part or portion of turtle but they are sold and cook the entire turtle. I was told that Turtle is better than those sold in HKG and China as they are not farm breed.
So why would this be an agenda? Ever thought that there are Paranoid.
Chinese eating habit is under scrutinzed maybe because we eat to live and not have to eat up the entire species.
Except that the report is blaming China for their turtle decline but fails to provide any evidence for that claim. They are not targeting overseas Chinese restaurants but China the country. Do you see the point?
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Western mainstream media single out and target China for special treatment because they fear China's growing strength and they hate the fact that China does not kowtow to western dictates
Why would the West be worry about China? The West has already accepted China as a supper power. And it has recognizes its position internationally. Have you not see US is asking China to take up responsibilities on Dafur, Myanmar, Iran and north korea.
Did the world try to stop China from biding its international status? blocking Taiwan? did the state department issue strong condemation on China use of force on Tibet? Nope.
What is concern among the West is that they have not see China taking up its international responsibilities. but continue a path of self interest. And a world that is competing resources to place self interest first. China does not have the track record of being a peace maker either.
"hat is concern among the West is that they have not see China taking up its international responsibilities. but continue a path of self interest. "
If you think the West has been acting in a altruistic manner, you are truly deluded...
All countries act in its own interest or as an expression of its ideals. Grasp this basic concept before you pass your hasty judgement.
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The world needs Russia and China to be strong in order to check USA hegemony and EU.
If you think the West has been acting in a altruistic manner, you are truly deluded..
USA and the west is far far worse than China. Don't be fooled by western propaganda.
The Acts of the Democracies
http://www.krysstal.com/democracy.html
Don't be misled by propaganda.
Remember, follow facts, not propaganda.