Free Tibet!!!!
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Originally posted by Eddie Lee:
Mao was actually very effective in causing widespread starvation when he forced China's farmers off of traditional farms and onto experimental collective farms. And there's always the glorious Cultural Revolution
Oh thank you for bringing up Chiang Kai-shek! Look how better off the people of Taiwan are compared to mainland Chinese.
Have you been to China, Eddie? How many mainland Chinese friends do you have? Have you even talked to them and ask them what they feel about the issue? All your postings seem to be based on antiquated, stereotypical, preconceptions about China, the CCP and its people.
Dude, A LOT has changed since Deng Xiaoping opened up the Chinese economy.
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Originally posted by Panache1976:
Have you been to China, Eddie? How many mainland Chinese friends do you have? Have you even talked to them and ask them what they feel about the issue? All your postings seem to be based on antiquated, stereotypical, preconceptions about China, the CCP and their people.
Dude, A LOT has changed since Deng Xiaoping opened up the Chinese economy.
i agree with you. the tide has long changed. i go to china 4-5 times a year for the last 5 years, and been to taipei last month for the first time in 5 years. i was shocked at the `standstill' in taipei. the sentiments of the taiwanese are no different. they recognized they got `left behind'.
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I hope Taiwan can join PRC soon, in HK type rule.
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we are talking about soverighty of the china. it doesnt matter whether it is rule by CCP or any party.
tibet will be part of china.
the current CCP has brought china a long way to become one of the big bros in world stage. as a chinese singaporeans, i feel proud.
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The Hypocrisy and Danger of Anti-China Demonstrations
by Floyd RudminGlobal Research, April 18, 2008CommonDreams.org - 2008-04-14
We hear that Tibetans suffer “demographic aggression” and “cultural genocide”. But we do not hear those terms applied to Spanish and French policies toward the Basque minority. We do not hear those terms applied to the US annexation of the Kingdom of Hawaii in 1898. And Diego Garcia? In 1973, not so long ago, the UK forcibly deported the entire native Chagossian population from the Indian Ocean island of Diego Garcia. People were allowed one suitcase of clothing. Nothing else. Family pets were gassed, then cremated. Complete ethnic cleansing. Complete cultural destruction. Why? In order to build a big US air base. It has been used to bomb Afghanistan and Iraq, and soon maybe to bomb Iran and Pakistan. Diego Garcia, with nobody there but Brits and Americans, is also a perfect place for rendition, torture and other illegal actions.
When the Olympics come to London in 2012, the Dalai Lama and Desmond Tutu will certainly lead the demonstrators protesting the “demographic aggression” and “cultural genocide” in Diego Garcia. The UN Secretary General, the President of France, the Chancellor of Germany, the new US President and the entire US Congress will certainly boycott the opening ceremonies.
The height of hypocrisy is this moral posturing about 100 dead in race riots in Lhasa, while the USA, UK and more than 40 nations in the Coalition of the Willing wage a war of aggression against Iraq. This is not “demographic aggression” but raw shock-and-awe aggression. A war crime. A war on civilians, including the intentional destruction of the water and sewage systems, and the electrical grid. More than one million Iraqis are now dead; five million made into refugees. The Western invaders may not be doing “cultural genocide” but they are doing cultural destruction on an immense scale, in the very cradle of Western Civilization. Why is the news filled with demonstrators about Tibet but not about Iraq?
And as everyone knows but few dare say, “demographic aggression” and “cultural genocide” can be applied most accurately to Israel’s settlement policies and systematic destruction of Palestinian communities. On this, the Dalai Lama seems silent. Demonstrators don’t wave flags for bulldozed homes, destroyed orchards, or dead Palestinian children.
The Chinese Context
The Chinese government is responsible for the well-being and security of one-fourth of humanity. Race riots and rebellion cannot be tolerated, not even when done by Buddhist monks.
Chinese Civilization was already old when the Egyptians began building pyramids. But the last 200 years have not gone well, what with two Opium Wars forcing China to import drugs, and Europeans seizing coastal ports as a step to complete colonial control, then the Boxer Rebellion, the collapse of the Manchu Dynasty, civil war, a brutal invasion and occupation by Japan, more civil war, then Communist consolidation and transformation of society, then Mao’s Cultural Revolution. Such events caused tens of millions of people to die. Thus, China’s recent history has good reasons why social order is a higher priority than individual rights. Race riots and rebellion cannot be tolerated.
Considering this context, China’s treatment of its minorities has been exemplary compared to what the Western world has done to its minorities. After thousands of years of Chinese dominance, there still are more than 50 minorities in China. After a few hundred years of European dominance in North and South America, the original minority cultures have been exterminated, damaged, or diminished.
Chinese currency carries five languages: Chinese, Mongolian, Tibetan, Uigur, and Zhuang. In comparison, Canadian currency carries English and French, but no Cree or Inuktitut. If the USA were as considerate of ethnic minorities as is China, then the greenback would be written in English, Spanish, Cherokee and Hawaiian.
In China, ethnic minorities begin their primary schooling in their own language, in a school administered by one of their own community. Chinese language instruction is not introduced until age 10 or later. This is in sharp contrast to a history of coerced linguistic assimilation in most Western nations. The Australian government recently apologized to the Aboriginal minority for taking children from their families, forcing them to speak English, beating them if they spoke their mother tongue. China has no need to make such apology to Tibetans or to other minorities.
China’s one-child-policy seems oppressive to Westerners, but it has not applied to minorities, only to the Han Chinese. Tibetans can have as many children as they choose. If Han people have more than one child, they are punished.
There is a similar preference given to minorities when it comes to admission to universities. For example, Tibetan students enter China’s elite Peking University with lower exam scores than Han Chinese students.
China is not a perfect nation, but on matters of minority rights, it has been better than most Western nations. And China achieved this in the historical context of restoring itself and recovering from 200 years of continual crisis and foreign invasion.
Historical Claims
National boundaries are not natural. They all arise from history, and all history is disputable. Arguments and evidence can always be found to challenge a boundary. China has long claimed Tibet as part of its territory, though that has been hard to enforce during the past 200 years. The Dalai Lama does not dispute China’s claim to Tibet. The recent race riots in Tibet and the anti-Olympics demonstrations will not cause China to shrink itself and abandon part of its territory. Rioters and demonstrators know that.
Foreign governments promoting Tibet separatism and demonstrators demanding Tibet independence should look closer to home. Canadians can campaign for Québec libre. Americans can support separatists in Puerto Rico, Vermont, Texas, California, Hawaii, Guam, and Alaska. Brits can work for a free Wales, and Scotland for the Scots. French can help free Tahitians, New Caledonians, Corsicans, and the Basques. Spaniards can also back the Basques, or the Catalonians. Italians can help Sicilian separatists or the Northern League. Danes can free the Faeroe Islands. Poles can back Cashubians. Japanese can help Okinawan separatists, and Filipinos can help the Moros. Thai can promote Patanni independence; Indonesians can promote Acehnese independence. New Zealanders can leave the islands to the Maori; Australians can vacate Papua. Sri Lankans can help Tamil separatists; Indians can help Sikh separatists.
Nearly every nation has a separatist movement of some kind. There is no need to go to Tibet, to the top of the world, to promote ethnic separatism. China is not promoting separatism in other nations and does not appreciate other nations promoting separatism in China. The people most oppressed, most needing a nation of their own, are the Palestinians. There is a worthy project to promote and to demonstrate about.
Danger of Demonstrations
These demonstrations do not serve Tibetans, but rather use Tibetans for ulterior motives. Many Tibetans, therefore, oppose these demonstrations. Many Chinese remember their history and see the riots in Lhasa and subsequent demonstrations as another attempt by foreign powers to dismember and weaken China. There is grave danger that Chinese might come to fear Tibetans as traitors, resulting in wide spread anti-Tibetan feelings in China.
Fear that an ethnic minority serves foreign forces caused Canada, during World War 1, to imprison its Ukranian minority in concentration camps. For similar reasons, the Ottomans deported their Armenian minority and killed more than a million in death marches. The German Nazis saw the Jewish minority as traitors who caused defeat in World War 1; hence deportations in the 1930s and death camps in the 1940s. During World War 2, both Canada and the USA feared that their Japanese immigrant minorities were traitorous and deported them to concentration camps. Indonesians fearing their Chinese minority, deported 100,000 in 1959 and killed thousands more in 1965. Israel similarly fears its Arab minority, resulting in deportations and oppression.
Hopefully, the Chinese government and the Chinese people will see Tibetans as victims of foreign powers rather than agents of foreign powers. However, if China reacts like other nations have in history and starts systematic severe repression of Tibetans, then today’s demonstrators should remember their role in causing that to happen.
Conclusion
The demonstrators now disparaging China serve only to distract themselves and others from seeing and correcting the current failings of their own governments. If the demonstrators will take a moment to listen, they will hear the silence of their own hypocrisy.
The consequences of these demonstrations are 1) China will stiffen its resolve to find foreign influences inciting Tibetans to riot, and 2) the governments of the USA, UK, France and other Western nations will have less domestic criticism for a few weeks. That is all. These demonstrations can come to no good end.
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Originally posted by Panache1976:
Have you been to China, Eddie? How many mainland Chinese friends do you have? Have you even talked to them and ask them what they feel about the issue? All your postings seem to be based on antiquated, stereotypical, preconceptions about China, the CCP and its people.
Dude, A LOT has changed since Deng Xiaoping opened up the Chinese economy.
Ha Ha Ha!
Yes I have been to China. And my room mates are from China and Taiwan. Though I am very curious if the people posting anti-American propaganda have ever been to the US. I have also made some investments in mainland China.
As far as out of date perceptions. Some of my posts are a little toungue in cheek. I like to tease
Poh Ah Pak becauses he brings up the Opium War or things that happen over 50 years ago. Sometimes I like to illustrate absurdity with more absurdity
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Originally posted by Eddie Lee:
If China is going to ape western concepts, why not try democracy and free speech?
china needs to cling on to power. that why communism remains the best way to unilaterally crush any opposite views. but not at the expense of economic progress. in its own ways, it is working.
someone wrote prior that communism in china is in name only. i tend to agree. there is nothing i cannot find in china that i can in singapore. in fact, china offers more. the 21st century has no place for 19th century political ideology. today, information flow is so prevalent and open that one cannot block and confine any information and knowledge to push through a certain ideology.
even in china, i would argue that only 1% of the internet contents are censored/block. the rest will still get 99% of the news and info of what's happening around the globe. hence, the way to manage it is not just hardline methods.
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Poh Ah Pak becauses he brings up the Opium War or things that happen over 50 years ago. Sometimes I like to illustrate absurdity with more absurdity
Then which one you like?
http://www.doublestandards.org/ciahits.html
http://www.doublestandards.org/usmurder.html
http://www.mltoday.com/Pages/Imperialism/
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
http://www.democracynow.org/2004/11/9/
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The People's Liberation Army (PLA) defeated the Tibetan army in a war at Chamdo on October 7 1950. This attack marked the beginning of Beijing’s campaign to incorporate Tibet into People's Republic of China. This is called an invasion by the Central Tibetan Administration[3], the US Congress[4], military analysts including Jane's,[5][6] media sources and NGOs such as the International Commission of Jurists[7] and the Center for World Indigenous Studies[8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15].
Samdhong Rinpoche, the 14th Dalai Lama, and other Tibetans in exile have accused the PRC government of a campaign of terror which led to the destruction of monasteries and disappearance of up to 1.2 million Tibetans. By 1962 only 70 of the original 2,500 monasteries in the Tibet Autonomous Region were left and 93% of the monks were forced out. The "1.2 million" figure for deaths since 1950 dates to a figure from the Tibetan Government-in-exile which they break down to 433,000 through military action, 343,000 through famine, 173,000 through imprisonment, 157,000 through execution, 93,000 through torture and 9,000 through suicide.[27]
This has been recorded in history!!!!!!
This huh...is from the famous internet encyclopedia lor!
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Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth
http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html
The CIA Circus: Tibet's Forgotten Army
http://www.friendsoftibet.org/databank/
Origins of so-called 'Tibetan Independence'
http://english.people.com.cn/90001/
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Originally posted by xiaoxui:
The People's Liberation Army (PLA) defeated the Tibetan army in a war at Chamdo on October 7 1950. This attack marked the beginning of Beijing’s campaign to incorporate Tibet into People's Republic of China. This is called an invasion by the Central Tibetan Administration[3], the US Congress[4], military analysts including Jane's,[5][6] media sources and NGOs such as the International Commission of Jurists[7] and the Center for World Indigenous Studies[8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15].
Samdhong Rinpoche, the 14th Dalai Lama, and other Tibetans in exile have accused the PRC government of a campaign of terror which led to the destruction of monasteries and disappearance of up to 1.2 million Tibetans. By 1962 only 70 of the original 2,500 monasteries in the Tibet Autonomous Region were left and 93% of the monks were forced out. The "1.2 million" figure for deaths since 1950 dates to a figure from the Tibetan Government-in-exile which they break down to 433,000 through military action, 343,000 through famine, 173,000 through imprisonment, 157,000 through execution, 93,000 through torture and 9,000 through suicide.[27]
This has been recorded in history!!!!!!
can you please advise where you copied this from? Which history has this been recorded? thank you.
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I will suggest Free Olympics instead.
Don't be manipulated by propagada...
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Tibet history? This huh...sgdiehard, i find it from the famous internet encyclopedia lor!
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Originally posted by xiaoxui:
Tibet history? This huh...sgdiehard, i find it from the famous internet encyclopedia lor!
How much of what you quoted you believe have some basis?
How much of what is written in your opinion is truth?
Internet encylopedia is not history leh.
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Check out this opinion on the Star Malaysia. I don't know him and vice versa. But he shares the same feeling. It's on the Star Malaysia.
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/4/21/focus/21013591&sec=focus
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xiaoxui,
it is hard to believe your information.
eddie lee.,
it is hard to believe why a chinese can dont feel patriotic whether we are singaporeans chinese or american chinese when we are being label as thugs. remeber they say " chinese" it meant us as well.
dont be a traitor of your own race!
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Originally posted by yamizi:
I will suggest Free Olympics instead.
Don't be manipulated by propagada...
Free Olympics from politics.
Free Olympics from politics.
Free Olympics from politics.
Free Olympics from politics.
Free Olympics from politics.
This has a nice ring to it.
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Originally posted by reyes:
xiaoxui,
it is hard to believe your information.
eddie lee.,
it is hard to believe why a chinese can dont feel patriotic whether we are singaporeans chinese or american chinese when we are being label as thugs. remeber they say " chinese" it meant us as well.
dont be a traitor of your own race!
My race?
What race do you think I am?
I am ang moh-Cherokee.
If we Americans blindly followed our own race we would still be part the British Empire.
When westerners refer to the current government of China as "thugs". It is not a slur on all Chinese.
Anymore than calling the Nazis evil is a slur on all Europeans.
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Originally posted by reyes:
xiaoxui,
it is hard to believe your information.
eddie lee.,
it is hard to believe why a chinese can dont feel patriotic whether we are singaporeans chinese or american chinese when we are being label as thugs. remeber they say " chinese" it meant us as well.
dont be a traitor of your own race!
Reyes,u can choose to live in ignorance. nobody shall stop u...
certain things done just CAN'T be undone.truth can't be denounce btw. truth needs no argument 2. 2 clarify your own doubts, need no reasons from us. if u r smart, u shall know what to do. I wish u can understands morality too.
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Originally posted by xiaoxui:
Reyes,u can choose to live in ignorance. nobody shall stop u...
certain things done just CAN'T be undone.truth can't be denounce btw. truth needs no argument 2. 2 clarify your own doubts, need no reasons from us. if u r smart, u shall know what to do. I wish u can understands morality too. Will a thief admit that he/she is a thief?
Surprising, xiaoxui. U are the one living in ignorance. Brainwash by western media. As many people say, has u ever step into tibet and know the real situation? Giving Tibet independance will just make them an another afganistan, ravage by civil war. A civil war fuel by those western countries who care nothing but their own benefit only. China may not be the best rule but giving benefit to tibetian which really improve their life. Airport, railway, school and medical centre. All these can be seen and living proof of real benefit being given to titbetian in Tibet.Look at Iraq, I bet life under saddam hussein is even 10 times better than coalition rules. Look at the number of Iraqi killed since the invasion in 2003. Have u heard abt news iraqi school boy raped by pervertic US troops? Not to mention thosands of unreported cases of iraqi being tortured by US troops. If US occupation is so good, why the resistance is so fierce and resilence?
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Originally posted by reyes:
eddie lee.,
it is hard to believe why a chinese can dont feel patriotic whether we are singaporeans chinese or american chinese when we are being label as thugs. remeber they say " chinese" it meant us as well.
dont be a traitor of your own race!
I agree with you.
In Thailand, Chinese were labelled as 'zek' or 'jek'. You would be curious how they came up with such weird remark on ethnic Chinese. 'zek' means father's brother in Diojiu. It is written as �. But it was used to remark on ethnic Chinese as unrefined, low class.
Now such remark is slowly coming back in the wake of the so-called 'Free Tibet' propaganda. Ethnic Chinese who express dissatifaction with the 'Free Tibet' rioters and wester media will be labelled as either unpatriotic, disloyal to Thailand's highest institution, or 'zek'.
If you just don't do anything, they'll continue to vilify you.
However, if you fight back, you'll be branded with a variety of slurs as Chinese chauvinist, pro-communist, 'zek'!
Apparently, this is a manipulation of information carefully crafted to vilify Chinese.
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Zenden9
Brainwash by western media??? Not that I know of. Are u brainwash by the CCP?
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Originally posted by xiaoxui:
Zenden9
Brainwash by western media??? Not that I know of. Are u brainwash by the CCP?
Yes that all u can reply?
I thought u can come up with something better, looks like i am wrong...Brainwashed? I am far from it. Facts and truth are always the thing I seeked.
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sorry, duplicate post.
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