Israel hits Palestine again while West Cheers Them On
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
Jarhum,
I am glad that you admitted yourself that 'there is no uniformed essence of history and that history is perceptive', by your own words, in your reply to googomuck. Enough said. You admitted to twisting historical facts to suit your twisted arab propaganda. Thank you. At least others know where you stand.Please do not under-estimate others who disagree with your propaganda as you continually do here, arab propagandist. You have freedom of speech here, regardless of whether you are a singaporean or a foriegner claiming to be singaporean, BuT do not abuse it. Then, its still your perogative.
So, 'Israeli sources' is not to be believed? And 'Palestinian sources' MUST be believed? Are you implying that? EVEN UN dare not confirm 100% that there were no militants in the said school, you dare, arab propagandist?
Hamas has a 'right' to bomb innocent jews in Israel, as well as as to hide amongst civilian in civilian centres, putting innocent Gaza people in the line of fire as well? Is that what you are claiming?
If you truly want to preserve life, you would have condemned Hamas actions, for it is an abomination to the Koran revered by Muslims around the world, including Arabs. But you prefer to use politically correct soft words such as 'overblown',etc, to propound further the arab propaganda.
Only by condemning them will sympathizers, funds and recruits be halted. They are destroying the religion anyway, and had used religion twisted to serve their interests.
When Hamas realizes they have no support, no more recruits and money to buy arms which should had been used to buy food for Gaza folks in the first place, they will quit armed struggle, and meet on the negotiation table without killing anyone else.
There is no dearth of humanitarian aid in the meantime for Gaza when a truce rings out, or even when peace is achieved. They are humans still who would helped out, so long as their money is NOT use to kill others.
If that is truly what they seek instead of violence and wiping out the human race, beginning with the jews and drawing everyone else into the conflict.
Wars can only be financed. No money, no talk. Hot air from the mouth will kill no one.
Do remove your blinkers if you truly want to share a common ground, which is the preservation of lives right now in Gaza!
Using your sweet words here - I too, would unconditionally apologize in the event that my statements are wrongly interpreted by one of unintellectual capacity
Agreed.
Hamas IS A TERRORIST organization. Enough said.
They are the ones that cause harm to both Israelis and Palestinians, sacrificing their own people for their extreme thoughts.
I don't see how their actions can be sympathized with, or supported. I don't see Hamas having any legitimate right in defending Gaza because their extreme idealogy is not shared by the normal arabs
It's like saying a person sympathizes with Al Qaeda for taking down the Twin Towers and causing 6000+ loss of lives, because Americans kill more Arabs than that 6000+ people who lost their lives.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
Agreed.
Hamas IS A TERRORIST organization. Enough said.
They are the ones that cause harm to both Israelis and Palestinians, sacrificing their own people for their extreme thoughts.
I don't see how their actions can be sympathized with, or supported. I don't see Hamas having any legitimate right in defending Gaza because their extreme idealogy is not shared by the normal arabs
It's like saying a person sympathizes with Al Qaeda for taking down the Twin Towers and causing 6000+ loss of lives, because Americans kill more Arabs than that 6000+ people who lost their lives.
Would i be correct to say that you feel there is no need to understand why they did it?
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You are not a Terrorist if u have the back-up and power
You are a Terrorist when you retaliated if u have no back-up and power
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
The article is posted by a female blogger and appeared on the website of a conspiracy theorist.
Female blogger = Inaccurate information, to put it gently? Where are all the feminists when we need them?
And secondly, whose judgement was it to label Jeff Rense's website as that of a "conspiracy theorist". If you want to call something or someone that, at least justify your accusation. The most punishing self-admission that appeared in your post describing his website is "politically incorrect". Don't tell me "politically incorrect" = "conspiracy theory"?
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Do you need to be seen to take the side of Hamas or white-wash their actions - after the many views you have offered that clamour for the understanding of Hamas acts of atrocities, while turning a total blind eye to the callous attitude of Hamas in placing Palestinian lives in danger ?As was mentioned before, it takes a great leap of imagination to understand the purpose of your efforts to compare the treatment of Jews in WW2 to be of any parallel to the sufferings of the Palestinians in Gaza.
Why do you not compare the living conditions of the Palestinians in the West Bank to the self-imposed pain and sufferings preferred by the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip - by supporting the Iranian financed Hamas ?
Why did the Israelis not walled up the Palestinians in the West Bank ?
Did Hamas make any announcement to Israelis when and where their rockets and mortar shells will land ?
At least the Israeli had announced their intention and had given the Hamas fighters time to move out of the intended target area.
Did the Israelis prevent the Palestinians from leaving the targetted area ?
Do you know that the Gaza Strip can be seen on the World Map, while this little red dot can hardly even be seen ?
Yet this little red dot can accomodate 4.5 million Singaporeans with enough space to move out of specific areas to allow a gathering of 300,000 persons at any one time - who are you trying to kid that the Palestinians are prevented from leaving a targetted area, and have no place to run to avoid Israeli counter attacks ?
Have I been dehumanised, or have you allowed yourself to be suckered by Hamas propaganda and allow yourself to think that everyone is numbed and dehumanised by the supposed atrocities - that are largely and purposefully self-inflicted ?
If you recogonised the legitimate claim of Israel to retaliate against Hamas unprovoked and provocative acts of attacking Israel - why did you not also extend that understanding by questioning Hamas agenda of launching such attacks from densely populated Palestinian areas ?
Why do you not question Hamas agenda in using their Palestinian civilians as Human Shield to cover their cowardly acts ?
Did the Palestinian population in Gaza voted Hamas into power, or did the Hamas politician decide to take matters into their own hands and evicted from the Gaza Strip the legitimately elected PLA Government of President Abbas - and unilaterraly declare the Gaza Strip to be led by a Hamas Government ?
Amazingly, no Middle-eastern country has recognised this Hamas Government except for Iran - who treat this Hamas Government as no more then a political pawn.
If this is not another one of your acts of succumbing to propaganda ?
You must be naive to expect Israel to give solace and comfort to Hamas and the Palestinians population that remained behind and give material and morale support to Hamas - when Hamas has declared their objective of destroying the State of Israel ?
Is there any use for your seemingly moralistic statement in red - when you have already succumbed to Hamas propaganda ?
It is plain stupidity to believe that Hamas or their Iranian backers will have any means to destroy Israel.
Is the Malaysia-Singapore analogy flawed, when the intertwined history of these two countries over the last 40 odd years have led to the edge of a local conflict ?
Prior to the recently concluded Pedra Branca issue, there were a few incidents which had resulted in Singapore Coast Guard and Navy vessels rubbing hulls with the Malaysian Navy and Police Patrol Boats.
The war of words in the 1963 and 1969 had resulted in racial riots that spread across our state borders, and more recent events had even the previous PM Mahathir on different occassions to have been reported to be threatening to shut off the water pipes, bomb Singapore, and even to unilaterally cut off the Causeway to build a new link bridge on their side of the territories.
All these acts would have constituted Acts of Wars - and the venom in the relationship had even permeated into the Malaysian Armed Forces, which even had a senior officer - in the rank of a Major - to contribute an article to one of their military journal that promoted the poisoning of our resevoirs as the opening gambit in any war.
If you believe that the MAF and the SAF are equally matched, those who are more knowledgeable than you will probably excuse your ignorance, but will not forgive you - if you are a politician - for making any wrong gamble in any miscalculation due to your ignorance.
It is just as well that you remain harmless in this Speaker's Corner and indulge in all your speculations based on propaganda and misinformation.
Such misinformation will be similar to the sudden publicity given to the sudden discovery of oil and gas in the Gaza Strip.
Do you seriously believe that the Israelis do not have any earlier knowledge of this event and willingly give up the Sinai Peninsular and the Gaza Strip after a hard fought 6-Day War in the mid-1960s - when oil supply was cut off that resulted in the first ever oil crisis in the World ?
If the Palestinians have no where to run in an Israeli attack, where do you expect the Palestinians in the tight Gaza space to move to when the oil and gas in the Gaza Strip will need to be exploited ?
Enough. Let me simplify this to some Yes/No questions.
Do I agree that Hamas should be condemned for launching rockets into Israel? Yes
Do I agree that Hamas should stop the violence against Israel? Yes
Do I agree that Israel has the right to self-defence when it is attacked? Yes
I'm not siding with either side as you think I am. Because most of you are either condemning Israel or Hamas, it results in an unbalanced view. Let's see you answer some questions:
Do you agree that Israel has been enforcing a blockade on Gaza, preventing food, fuel and medical supplies for most of the time after Hamas won the 2006 elections? Yes/No
Do you agree that Israel has control over the Gazan borders? Yes/No
Do you agree that a country which has no control over its borders has no real sovereignty at all? Yes/No
Why does Israel treat the West Bank's Palestinians and Gaza's differently? Well, for one, the Fatah government is subservient to the Israelis. If Fatah ever dared to step out of line like Hamas, the West Bank will definitely get invaded.
Why did Israel blockade Gaza after Hamas won in a democratic election? Not Yes/No, but surely you can handle structured questions.
"[Jimmy] Carter said that election was "orderly and fair" and Hamas triumphed, in part, because it was "shrewd in selecting candidates," whereas a divided, corrupt Fatah ran multiple candidates for single seats.
Far from encouraging Hamas's move into parliamentary politics, Carter said the US and Israel, with European Union acquiescence, has sought to subvert the outcome by shunning Hamas and helping Abbas to keep the reins of political and military power.
"That action was criminal," he said in a news conference after his speech."
- Carter: Stop favoring Fatah over Hamas- http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1181813074587&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Then, considering that the nature of both parties' weapons are different, even if Hamas doesnt announce rocket launchings, like it will, Israeli casualties from their rocket attacks pale in comparison to the warned Israeli airstrikes. Does it really take a lot of thinking to get the idea that the impact from thousand-pound bombs is massively larger than homemade rockets? The death toll on both sides already demonstrates that fact.
As I said, launching rockets into Israel is despicable. But, try to put yourself in their shoes. If a foreign power was oppressing you and your people, would you not resist? Saying that they purposely launched rockets from civilian-populated areas (where are there no civilians in Gaza?) is like saying that the Viet Cong in South Vietnam purposely used their own people as a shield without any scruples. Its not like they are foreign fighters. What would you call ordinary Gazans rising up against a foreign power that is invading their country? Let's say, a Gazan teacher has had enough with tolerating Israel's inhumane treatment of Gazans and decides to aid Hamas, his democratically elected government. Israeli intelligence spots him and bombs his school. Was it his intention to get the school bombed in order to get sympathy for Hamas? I dont think so. Resisting against the Israeli occupiers was his priority. Can you understand this?
Since you already admit that Hamas nor Iran could ever destroy Israel, then why all the using "Destroy Israel" rhetoric from the Iranians or Palestinians as justification for the bombing?
If you want to side with Hamas, then do you claim that Israel's hands are clean? Yes/No
Do you agree that more people have died from Israel's attacks than from Hamas' attacks? Yes/No
Do you agree that Israel was the first one to break the ceasefire on Nov 4? Yes/No
This has already been brought up many times and people'll say that Hamas broke it first by an ( implied passively aggressive) act of contructing a tunnel which would have been used to attack and kidnap Israeli troops and citizens. That's what was put out by the MSM. Think about it, for a country which has been blockaded and deprived of food, fuel and medical supplies, would they have tried to break the blockade by getting supplies in through a tunnel? Anyway, CNN has already confirmed that Israel was the one to break the ceasefire.
I cant emphasis this enough, but it doesnt seem to be expressed well, probably because of much unconscious bias- it is wrong for both parties to act in this way. But, overlooking the fact that Israel has caused more casualties than Hamas would mean acknowledging that Palestinian lives are worth less than Israeli ones. Instead of just condemning Hamas as "terrorist", which by the way, is just a word to describe someone who uses a particular technique of 'persuasion', why not look at the way Israel treats the Palestinians.
Finally, I do not say that Singapore and Malaysia are equally matched.
Do you agree that Singapore and Malaysia both, have air forces, navies and land armies that are equipped to modern standards? Yes/No
Do you agree that Israel is the Middle-East's superpower? Yes/No
Do you agree that Hamas in Gaza has no air force or navy, and has only guerilla land forces? Yes/No
I didnt know that there were oil and natural gas in Gaza till the recent invasion put the spotlight on the Palestinians. I dont know whether the Israelis knew or didnt know about this either. Do you know? The article below states that it was discovered in 2000.
Do you know that Gaza does not have oil and natural gas? Yes/No
Similarly, do you know that Gaza has oil and natural gas? Yes/No
Dont you think rejecting new information despite not having any evidence to the contrary demonstrates a narrow mind?
It is precisely because the Gazans have a natural resource to fuel their development that the Israeli attack is timed as such. Of course, the Israelis do not want to allow that resource to benefit the Palestinian people. If you're oppressing a people, would it be in your interest for them to be lifted out of poverty? Would it be in your interest for them to achieve the means to sustain their own economy?
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War and Natural Gas: The Israeli Invasion and Gaza's Offshore Gas Fieldsby Michel ChossudovskyGlobal Research, January 8, 2009
The military invasion of the Gaza Strip by Israeli Forces bears a direct relation to the control and ownership of strategic offshore gas reserves.
This is a war of conquest. Discovered in 2000, there are extensive gas reserves off the Gaza coastline.
British Gas (BG Group) and its partner, the Athens based Consolidated Contractors International Company (CCC) owned by Lebanon's Sabbagh and Koury families, were granted oil and gas exploration rights in a 25 year agreement signed in November 1999 with the Palestinian Authority.
The rights to the offshore gas field are respectively British Gas (60 percent); Consolidated Contractors (CCC) (30 percent); and the Investment Fund of the Palestinian Authority (10 percent). (Haaretz, October 21, 2007).
The PA-BG-CCC agreement includes field development and the construction of a gas pipeline.(Middle East Economic Digest, Jan 5, 2001).The BG licence covers the entire Gazan offshore marine area, which is contiguous to several Israeli offshore gas facilities. (See Map below). It should be noted that 60 percent of the gas reserves along the Gaza-Israel coastline belong to Palestine.
The BG Group drilled two wells in 2000: Gaza Marine-1 and Gaza Marine-2. Reserves are estimated by British Gas to be of the order of 1.4 trillion cubic feet, valued at approximately 4 billion dollars. These are the figures made public by British Gas. The size of Palestine's gas reserves could be much larger.
Who Owns the Gas Fields
The issue of sovereignty over Gaza's gas fields is crucial. From a legal standpoint, the gas reserves belong to Palestine.
The death of Yasser Arafat, the election of the Hamas government and the ruin of the Palestinian Authority have enabled Israel to establish de facto control over Gaza's offshore gas reserves.
British Gas (BG Group) has been dealing with the Tel Aviv government. In turn, the Hamas government has been bypassed in regards to exploration and development rights over the gas fields.
The election of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon in 2001 was a major turning point. Palestine's sovereignty over the offshore gas fields was challenged in the Israeli Supreme Court. Sharon stated unequivocally that "Israel would never buy gas from Palestine" intimating that Gaza's offshore gas reserves belong to Israel.
In 2003, Ariel Sharon, vetoed an initial deal, which would allow British Gas to supply Israel with natural gas from Gaza's offshore wells. (The Independent, August 19, 2003)
The election victory of Hamas in 2006 was conducive to the demise of the Palestinian Authority, which became confined to the West Bank, under the proxy regime of Mahmoud Abbas.
In 2006, British Gas "was close to signing a deal to pump the gas to Egypt." (Times, May, 23, 2007). According to reports, British Prime Minister Tony Blair intervened on behalf of Israel with a view to shunting the agreement with Egypt.
The following year, in May 2007, the Israeli Cabinet approved a proposal by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert "to buy gas from the Palestinian Authority." The proposed contract was for $4 billion, with profits of the order of $2 billion of which one billion was to go the Palestinians.
Tel Aviv, however, had no intention on sharing the revenues with Palestine. An Israeli team of negotiators was set up by the Israeli Cabinet to thrash out a deal with the BG Group, bypassing both the Hamas government and the Palestinian Authority:
"Israeli defence authorities want the Palestinians to be paid in goods and services and insist that no money go to the Hamas-controlled Government." (Ibid, emphasis added)
The objective was essentially to nullify the contract signed in 1999 between the BG Group and the Palestinian Authority under Yasser Arafat.
Under the proposed 2007 agreement with BG, Palestinian gas from Gaza's offshore wells was to be channeled by an undersea pipeline to the Israeli seaport of Ashkelon, thereby transferring control over the sale of the natural gas to Israel.
The deal fell through. The negotiations were suspended:
"Mossad Chief Meir Dagan opposed the transaction on security grounds, that the proceeds would fund terror". (Member of Knesset Gilad Erdan, Address to the Knesset on "The Intention of Deputy Prime Minister Ehud Olmert to Purchase Gas from the Palestinians When Payment Will Serve Hamas," March 1, 2006, quoted in Lt. Gen. (ret.) Moshe Yaalon, Does the Prospective Purchase of British Gas from Gaza's Coastal Waters Threaten Israel's National Security? Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, October 2007)
Israel's intent was to foreclose the possibility that royalties be paid to the Palestinians. In December 2007, The BG Group withdrew from the negotiations with Israel and in January 2008 they closed their office in Israel.(BG website).
Invasion Plan on The Drawing Board
The invasion plan of the Gaza Strip under "Operation Cast Lead" was set in motion in June 2008, according to Israeli military sources:
"Sources in the defense establishment said Defense Minister Ehud Barak instructed the Israel Defense Forces to prepare for the operation over six months ago [June or before June] , even as Israel was beginning to negotiate a ceasefire agreement with Hamas."(Barak Ravid, Operation "Cast Lead": Israeli Air Force strike followed months of planning, Haaretz, December 27, 2008)
That very same month, the Israeli authorities contacted British Gas, with a view to resuming crucial negotiations pertaining to the purchase of Gaza's natural gas:
"Both Ministry of Finance director general Yarom Ariav and Ministry of National Infrastructures director general Hezi Kugler agreed to inform BG of Israel's wish to renew the talks.
The sources added that BG has not yet officially responded to Israel's request, but that company executives would probably come to Israel in a few weeks to hold talks with government officials." (Globes online- Israel's Business Arena, June 23, 2008)
The decision to speed up negotiations with British Gas (BG Group) coincided, chronologically, with the planning of the invasion of Gaza initiated in June. It would appear that Israel was anxious to reach an agreement with the BG Group prior to the invasion, which was already in an advanced planning stage.
Moreover, these negotiations with British Gas were conducted by the Ehud Olmert government with the knowledge that a military invasion was on the drawing board and that a new political-territorial arrangement for Gaza strip was being contemplated by Israel.
In fact, negotiations between British Gas and Israeli officials were ongoing in October 2008, 2-3 months prior to the commencement of the bombings on December 27th.
In November 2008, the Israeli Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of National Infrastructures instructed Israel Electric Corporation (IEC) to enter into negotiations with British Gas, on the purchase of natural gas from the BG's offshore concession in Gaza. (Globes, November 13, 2008)
"Ministry of Finance director general Yarom Ariav and Ministry of National Infrastructures director general Hezi Kugler wrote to IEC CEO Amos Lasker recently, informing him of the government's decision to allow negotiations to go forward, in line with the framework proposal it approved earlier this year.
The IEC board, headed by chairman Moti Friedman, approved the principles of the framework proposal a few weeks ago. The talks with BG Group will begin once the board approves the exemption from a tender." (Globes Nov. 13, 2008)
Gaza and Energy Geopolitics
The military occupation of Gaza is intent upon transferring the sovereignty of the gas fields to Israel in violation of international law.
What can we expect in the wake of the invasion?
What is the intent of Israel with regard to Palestine's Natural Gas reserves?A new territorial arrangement, with the stationing of Israeli and/or "peacekeeping" troops?
The militarization of the entire Gaza coastline, which is strategic for Israel?
The outright confiscation of Palestinian gas fields and the unilateral declaration of Israeli sovereignty over Gaza's maritime areas?
If this were to occur, the Gaza gas fields would be integrated into Israel's offshore installations, which are contiguous to those of the Gaza Strip. (See Map 1 above).
These various offshore installations are also linked up to Israel's energy transport corridor, extending from the port of Eilat, which is an oil pipeline terminal, on the Red Sea to the seaport - pipeline terminal at Ashkelon, and northwards to Haifa, and eventually linking up through a proposed Israeli-Turkish pipeline with the Turkish port of Ceyhan.
Ceyhan is the terminal of the Baku, Tblisi Ceyhan Trans Caspian pipeline. "What is envisaged is to link the BTC pipeline to the Trans-Israel Eilat-Ashkelon pipeline, also known as Israel's Tipline." (See Michel Chossudovsky, The War on Lebanon and the Battle for Oil, Global Research, July 23, 2006)
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
Jarhum,
I am glad that you admitted yourself that 'there is no uniformed essence of history and that history is perceptive', by your own words, in your reply to googomuck. Enough said. You admitted to twisting historical facts to suit your twisted arab propaganda. Thank you. At least others know where you stand.Please do not under-estimate others who disagree with your propaganda as you continually do here, arab propagandist. You have freedom of speech here, regardless of whether you are a singaporean or a foriegner claiming to be singaporean, BuT do not abuse it. Then, its still your perogative.
So, 'Israeli sources' is not to be believed? And 'Palestinian sources' MUST be believed? Are you implying that? EVEN UN dare not confirm 100% that there were no militants in the said school, you dare, arab propagandist?
Hamas has a 'right' to bomb innocent jews in Israel, as well as as to hide amongst civilian in civilian centres, putting innocent Gaza people in the line of fire as well? Is that what you are claiming?
If you truly want to preserve life, you would have condemned Hamas actions, for it is an abomination to the Koran revered by Muslims around the world, including Arabs. But you prefer to use politically correct soft words such as 'overblown',etc, to propound further the arab propaganda.
Only by condemning them will sympathizers, funds and recruits be halted. They are destroying the religion anyway, and had used religion twisted to serve their interests.
When Hamas realizes they have no support, no more recruits and money to buy arms which should had been used to buy food for Gaza folks in the first place, they will quit armed struggle, and meet on the negotiation table without killing anyone else.
There is no dearth of humanitarian aid in the meantime for Gaza when a truce rings out, or even when peace is achieved. They are humans still who would helped out, so long as their money is NOT use to kill others.
If that is truly what they seek instead of violence and wiping out the human race, beginning with the jews and drawing everyone else into the conflict.
Wars can only be financed. No money, no talk. Hot air from the mouth will kill no one.
Do remove your blinkers if you truly want to share a common ground, which is the preservation of lives right now in Gaza!
Using your sweet words here - I too, would unconditionally apologize in the event that my statements are wrongly interpreted by one of unintellectual capacity
So, 'Israeli sources' is not to be believed? And 'Palestinian sources' MUST be believed? Are you implying that? EVEN UN dare not confirm 100% that there were no militants in the said school, you dare, arab propagandist?
Of course not, but 99.9% is a rather high figure, given the circumstances of the attack. Almost nothing is 100%, except dying (pun unintended).
"Following an initial investigation, we are 99.9 percent sure that there were no militants or militant activities in the school and the school compound," said Christopher Gunness, spokesman for the UN refugee agency for Palestinian refugees, UNRWA.
"We are calling for an independent investigation to establish the facts," he said. "If the rules of war had been broken those found guilty must be brought to justice [That's your cue, xtreyier]."
...
“The desperate (Palestinian) refugees who lost everything had hoped that hiding in a school belonging to the UN would give them at least some kind of refuge and save their children,” read a statement by Gush Shalom, the Israeli peace group.
“They did not know that even there a single shell would cut off dozens of lives in a single second. They did not know that facing them is an Israeli government running amok; charging headlong into the depth of the bloody mud of Gaza,” added the statement"
- UN: no Hamas fighters at school bombed by Israel- http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=29628
The Iranian Press reported it rather differently:
"Christopher Gunness, spokesman for the UN refugee agency for Palestinian refugees (UNRWA) said with high confidence on Wednesday that there were no combatants or combative activities in the schools and school compounds targeted by Israel on Tuesday.
"We are calling for an independent investigation to establish the facts," he said, calling for those who broke the rules of war to be brought to justice.
Israeli forces attacked three UN-run schools in the Gaza Strip, killing at least 45 civilians, most of whom were Palestinians who had taken refuge in the buildings to escape the raining Israeli fire on Gaza." (http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=80956§ionid=351020202)I'm not condoning or overlooking the rocket attacks committed by Hamas. They do kill. But Israeli bombs kill more. I also agree that more casualties doesnt mean more symphathy, people die. But less people also doesnt mean more symphathy as well. It also doesnt mean that the nationality, race or religion should matter. Then why are you only condemning Hamas and saying that they should be wiped out when Israel is also killing people, an act that most of the Israeli population opposes. If you would spare some curses for Israel, then I wouldn't have any issue with it. But as it is, you're just acting very biased against Israel. Dont ignore the other side of the story.
Hamas has a 'right' to bomb innocent jews in Israel, as well as as to hide amongst civilian in civilian centres, putting innocent Gaza people in the line of fire as well? Is that what you are claiming?
Then does Israel have a right to bomb the Gazans with F-16s and Apaches when all they can do is fire back with homemade rockets that sometimes dont even kill one person?
And they're not hiding in civilian centres. They are civilians. Civilians who have been disgruntled at the Israeli oppression and have started to make a difference by rising up and fighting back. Do you think just because they are resisting the Israeli military machine, they all go out donning helmets, signalling the formation of a Palestinian Army, as if they have the means? Even if its a WAR between two armies, civilians still die, what more a massacre by a modern army against a guerilla force? That's the only way they can tactically resist. I'm not saying its right or wrong, but pragmatically, its the only way to fight a superior force, just like Lim Bo Seng did against the Japanese.
Wars can only be financed. No money, no talk. Hot air from the mouth will kill no one.
True, when someone is assaulting you, blockading your country, trying to reason with them is pointless. Only through actions will anyone get recognition for their cause.
Do remove your blinkers if you truly want to share a common ground, which is the preservation of lives right now in Gaza!
I agree with you. But you aren't recognising that Israel is inflicting most of the casualties in Gaza. Do you? Yes/No
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Originally posted by freedomclub:War and Natural Gas: The Israeli Invasion and Gaza's Offshore Gas Fieldsby Michel ChossudovskyGlobal Research, January 8, 2009
The military invasion of the Gaza Strip by Israeli Forces bears a direct relation to the control and ownership of strategic offshore gas reserves.
This is a war of conquest. Discovered in 2000, there are extensive gas reserves off the Gaza coastline.
British Gas (BG Group) and its partner, the Athens based Consolidated Contractors International Company (CCC) owned by Lebanon's Sabbagh and Koury families, were granted oil and gas exploration rights in a 25 year agreement signed in November 1999 with the Palestinian Authority.
The rights to the offshore gas field are respectively British Gas (60 percent); Consolidated Contractors (CCC) (30 percent); and the Investment Fund of the Palestinian Authority (10 percent). (Haaretz, October 21, 2007).
The PA-BG-CCC agreement includes field development and the construction of a gas pipeline.(Middle East Economic Digest, Jan 5, 2001).The BG licence covers the entire Gazan offshore marine area, which is contiguous to several Israeli offshore gas facilities. (See Map below). It should be noted that 60 percent of the gas reserves along the Gaza-Israel coastline belong to Palestine.
The BG Group drilled two wells in 2000: Gaza Marine-1 and Gaza Marine-2. Reserves are estimated by British Gas to be of the order of 1.4 trillion cubic feet, valued at approximately 4 billion dollars. These are the figures made public by British Gas. The size of Palestine's gas reserves could be much larger.
Who Owns the Gas Fields
The issue of sovereignty over Gaza's gas fields is crucial. From a legal standpoint, the gas reserves belong to Palestine.
The death of Yasser Arafat, the election of the Hamas government and the ruin of the Palestinian Authority have enabled Israel to establish de facto control over Gaza's offshore gas reserves.
British Gas (BG Group) has been dealing with the Tel Aviv government. In turn, the Hamas government has been bypassed in regards to exploration and development rights over the gas fields.
The election of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon in 2001 was a major turning point. Palestine's sovereignty over the offshore gas fields was challenged in the Israeli Supreme Court. Sharon stated unequivocally that "Israel would never buy gas from Palestine" intimating that Gaza's offshore gas reserves belong to Israel.
In 2003, Ariel Sharon, vetoed an initial deal, which would allow British Gas to supply Israel with natural gas from Gaza's offshore wells. (The Independent, August 19, 2003)
The election victory of Hamas in 2006 was conducive to the demise of the Palestinian Authority, which became confined to the West Bank, under the proxy regime of Mahmoud Abbas.
In 2006, British Gas "was close to signing a deal to pump the gas to Egypt." (Times, May, 23, 2007). According to reports, British Prime Minister Tony Blair intervened on behalf of Israel with a view to shunting the agreement with Egypt.
The following year, in May 2007, the Israeli Cabinet approved a proposal by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert "to buy gas from the Palestinian Authority." The proposed contract was for $4 billion, with profits of the order of $2 billion of which one billion was to go the Palestinians.
Tel Aviv, however, had no intention on sharing the revenues with Palestine. An Israeli team of negotiators was set up by the Israeli Cabinet to thrash out a deal with the BG Group, bypassing both the Hamas government and the Palestinian Authority:
The objective was essentially to nullify the contract signed in 1999 between the BG Group and the Palestinian Authority under Yasser Arafat.
Under the proposed 2007 agreement with BG, Palestinian gas from Gaza's offshore wells was to be channeled by an undersea pipeline to the Israeli seaport of Ashkelon, thereby transferring control over the sale of the natural gas to Israel.
<!-- End of pagination -->The deal fell through. The negotiations were suspended:
Israel's intent was to foreclose the possibility that royalties be paid to the Palestinians. In December 2007, The BG Group withdrew from the negotiations with Israel and in January 2008 they closed their office in Israel.(BG website).
Invasion Plan on The Drawing Board
The invasion plan of the Gaza Strip under "Operation Cast Lead" was set in motion in June 2008, according to Israeli military sources:
That very same month, the Israeli authorities contacted British Gas, with a view to resuming crucial negotiations pertaining to the purchase of Gaza's natural gas:
The decision to speed up negotiations with British Gas (BG Group) coincided, chronologically, with the planning of the invasion of Gaza initiated in June. It would appear that Israel was anxious to reach an agreement with the BG Group prior to the invasion, which was already in an advanced planning stage.
Moreover, these negotiations with British Gas were conducted by the Ehud Olmert government with the knowledge that a military invasion was on the drawing board and that a new political-territorial arrangement for Gaza strip was being contemplated by Israel.
In fact, negotiations between British Gas and Israeli officials were ongoing in October 2008, 2-3 months prior to the commencement of the bombings on December 27th.
In November 2008, the Israeli Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of National Infrastructures instructed Israel Electric Corporation (IEC) to enter into negotiations with British Gas, on the purchase of natural gas from the BG's offshore concession in Gaza. (Globes, November 13, 2008)
Gaza and Energy Geopolitics
The military occupation of Gaza is intent upon transferring the sovereignty of the gas fields to Israel in violation of international law.
What can we expect in the wake of the invasion?
What is the intent of Israel with regard to Palestine's Natural Gas reserves?A new territorial arrangement, with the stationing of Israeli and/or "peacekeeping" troops?
The militarization of the entire Gaza coastline, which is strategic for Israel?
The outright confiscation of Palestinian gas fields and the unilateral declaration of Israeli sovereignty over Gaza's maritime areas?
If this were to occur, the Gaza gas fields would be integrated into Israel's offshore installations, which are contiguous to those of the Gaza Strip. (See Map 1 above).
These various offshore installations are also linked up to Israel's energy transport corridor, extending from the port of Eilat, which is an oil pipeline terminal, on the Red Sea to the seaport - pipeline terminal at Ashkelon, and northwards to Haifa, and eventually linking up through a proposed Israeli-Turkish pipeline with the Turkish port of Ceyhan.
Ceyhan is the terminal of the Baku, Tblisi Ceyhan Trans Caspian pipeline. "What is envisaged is to link the BTC pipeline to the Trans-Israel Eilat-Ashkelon pipeline, also known as Israel's Tipline." (See Michel Chossudovsky, The War on Lebanon and the Battle for Oil, Global Research, July 23, 2006)
Gazans should develop the oil or gas fields instead of channelling their energy to disrupt Israelis' day to day lives.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Gazans should develop the oil or gas fields instead of channelling their energy to disrupt Israelis' day to day lives.
How? When Israel doesnt even let the most basic goods like food, fuel and medicine enter Gaza.
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Xtreyier, In no instance, I admitted to the malicious accusation of the act of twisting historical facts. My statement that history is not uniform in essence and history is perceptible is factual. Professional historian would agree that the subject of history is viewed from more than one perspective.Offering a certain perspective of history is in no instance tantamount to fact twisting. I offer due respect to anyone who disagree with my writings, provided that it revolves around intellectual discourse. In no instance I have been propagating rights to violence on either side. I wonder if writings reflecting a more balanced approach constitute propaganda for the arabs? This leads to your next accusation. Never did I mention that one source is to be dismissed and the other required obligatory acceptance in its totality. Your statement with regards to the U.N is grossly simplistic. The U.N neither denied nor confirm the presence of Hamas combatants within its compound. However, the underlying basis of the Israeli attack is due to alleged fire from the compound of the U.N which contradicts the assertion of the U.N that no fire was shot from its compound. Logically speaking, ascribing to the Israeli report reeks of prejudice towards the Israelis and acceptence of the U.N report would constitute neutrality. I shall not argue about the freedom of speech as I am clear my writings are purposeful for the sanctity of humankind. Next, your third inquiry whether I claim that Hamas possess the right to kill innocent civilians profess your shallow grasp of the language. I stated that Hamas has much right to defend the gazans as much as the Israelis do constitute a moral paradox. Any one can never claim the legitimacy to the killings of innocents. I truly condemn Hamas for the malevolent killings of innocent lives as much as I condemn the malicious killings of innocent lives by the Israelis. Although I feel like a fool for condemning Hamas' killings of innocent lives due to the fact that the pathetic numbers of their killings constitued a lesser loss of lives vis a vis the number of traffic fatalities from the recent Jewish holiday weekend. As much as HAMAS intents to take the innocent lives of Israeli civilians, reports have affirmed to the purposeful killings of Palestinian civilians by the IDF albeit much more successful. Could anyone in the right mind term an entity which kills a highly disproportionate number of civilians vis a vis its enemy as the oppressed? The Quran never sanction the killings of non-combatants in a lawful war, neither killing combatants from behind. Condeming HAMAS per se is an abomination of any ethical set of values because Israel is equally to be blamed. However, if we are arguing in terms of consequences, Israel deserves a higher degree of blame. My writing aims to offer a more balanced perspective from substantial sources. However, you have adopted a wholesome acceptence of heavily influenced U.S information with regards to this conflict. Financing of this conflict is a laughable point you have brought up. The disproportionality of the financing of the Zionist Entity dwarfs the disparity between lives lost on either side. Barricades were requested to be opened for international sanctioned humanitarian aid. You seeming lean heavily in favour of the Zionist whose atrocities in this conflict dwarf Hamas in terms of consequence whether due to causations we shall not argue. This is at the expense of the loss of lives and you profess a claim to the sanctity of human lives. From your conclusion, you have again showcased your low propensity for intellectual thinking. Plagarism is the highest form of un-intellectual discourse. In the event you are keen to disagree with me with regards to the preservation of human lives via an end to violence from both sides of the conflict, you are most welcome to challenge me to a debate.
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Originally posted by Jarhum:
Googoomuck,
I take utmost offence at your pathetic accusation that I am twisting historical facts. The contribution of military aid and paramilitary support does not tantamount to a belligerent of a war. This is fact. You continue to publicise your blatant lack of knowledge and stupidity by continuing to reply to posts here.In what instances I changed any due course of history? There is no uniformed essence of history as I mentioned history is perceptive.
I'm referring to troops, not paramilitary. The armies of Kuwait, Algeria, Saudi Arabia and Iraq were contributing troops and arms to the Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian fronts.
"The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel . . . . to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations." – Nasser, May, 30, 1967 after signing a defense pact with Jordan's King Hussein
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
How? When Israel doesnt even let the most basic goods like food, fuel and medicine enter Gaza.
Why? -
Originally posted by googoomuck:
Why?I dont know. Why dont you tell me?
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
I dont know. Why dont you tell me?
Do your own home work. We'll see if your answer is correct. -
Originally posted by googoomuck:
Why?Perhaps because Israel enjoys oppressing the Palestinian people and when they resist, will have justifications to launch military adventures like this one.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
Perhaps because Israel enjoys oppressing the Palestinian people and when they resist, will have justifications to launch military adventures like this one.
Wrong answer. -
Originally posted by googoomuck:
Wrong answer.You need more than that to prove its wrong.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
Female blogger = Inaccurate information, to put it gently? Where are all the feminists when we need them?
And secondly, whose judgement was it to label Jeff Rense's website as that of a "conspiracy theorist". If you want to call something or someone that, at least justify your accusation. The most punishing self-admission that appeared in your post describing his website is "politically incorrect". Don't tell me "politically incorrect" = "conspiracy theory"?
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googoomuck, Official combatants of the 1967 war were jordan, syria, egypt and Iraq. The rest were not listed as official combatants. In your interpretation, you might as well include Pakistan, Yemen as countries which contributed weapons and troops to the coalition
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What Kind of Security Will This Barbarism Bring Israel?
Israel has killed and wounded almost four thousand men, women and children so far in its assault on Gaza; it has entombed whole families together in the ruins of their homes. As I write these words, news is breaking that Israeli bombs have killed at least 40 civilians huddling in a UN school which they mistakenly thought would be safer than the homes from which Israel’s relentless barrage—and its deliberately terrorizing “warning” leaflets and prerecorded phone calls—had already driven them. (I still have one of the leaflets the Israelis dropped on besieged Beirut in 1982 and the language is exactly the same—“flee, flee for your lives!”). Mosques, schools, houses, apartment buildings, have all been brought down on the heads of those inside.
All this death and destruction comes supposedly in retaliation for rocket attacks that had not inflicted a single fatality inside Israel in over a year. What happened to “an eye for an eye?”...
http://www.counterpunch.org/makdisi01072009.html
What is Israel's Objective?
There are two persistent myths about the aim of Israel’s onslaught on Gaza: the first that it is an entirely defensive move, a way to end the rocket fire of Hamas; and the second that it is designed to restore the army’s credibility after its failure to cow Hizbollah in 2006.
No doubt the Israeli army has been itching to repair its battered image, and for sure the rocket attacks from Gaza create domestic pressures that are only too clear to an Israeli government about to face an election.
But it is a gross misunderstanding of what is unfolding in Gaza to believe Israel’s motives are capricious. The politicians and generals have been preparing for this attack for many months, possibly years -- a fact alone that suggests they have bigger objectives than commonly assumed.
Israel seized this particular moment -- with western politicians dozing through the holidays and a changeover of administrations in Washington -- because it ensured the longest period to implement its plan without diplomatic interference... -
PRESS STATEMENT - ISRAEL MUST BE STOPPED FROM COMMITTING FURTHER WAR CRIMES
THE KUALA LUMPUR FOUNDATION TO CRIMINALISE
WAR
AND THE PERDANA GLOBAL PEACE ORGANISATION
AT ITS MEETING HELD ON JANUARY 2ND 2009
The barbaric and wanton massacre of the Palestinians in Gaza which started some days ago and is now still continuing is yet another example of the blatant war crimes committed by Zionist Israel since its establishment in 1948.
Supported and encouraged by the United States and Britain, Israel has ignored international condemnation and insists that she has the unfettered right to murder innocent men, women and children on account of some rocket attacks by Palestinians who were retaliating against the blockade of Gaza. The blockade over the last 9 months has brought starvation and untold suffering to the Palestinians. The heroic Palestinian people have every right to take action in self-defence to break this inhuman siege.
The United Nations has condemned this attempt to starve and deny the medical needs of the Palestinians in order to force them into submission, but as usual, Israel backed by the United States has ignored international opinion and international law.
The peace loving peoples of the world must not just sympathise with the Palestinians but must take concrete action to bring the war criminals to justice.
For various reasons Governments will not do anything to put a stop to Israeli intransigence. It remains for the people to take positive action individually or through their Non-Governmental Organisations (NGO).
We propose that the peoples of the world boycott Israeli products and stop all trade with Israel.
Secondly we call upon the international community to abandon the use of the US Dollar in international trade, and to stop buying United States' bonds. Such purchases have enabled the United States to grant substantial aid to Israel and to supply it with the weapons now being used against the people in Gaza and elsewhere. The concerned peace loving peoples of the world must not, even if it is in a small way, be the participants and financiers in the massacre of the Palestinians, the Iraqis and the Afghans.
Finally we call upon the United Nations General Assembly to condemn Israel the same way that the Security Council condemns Darfur, Rwanda and Burundi and to set up a Tribunal to try Israeli war criminals.
Dr Mahathir bin Mohamad
Chairman
Kuala Lumpur Foundation to Criminalise War
and Perdana Global Peace Organisation -
Israel losing propaganda war
ISRAEL has taken a battering in the global propaganda battle over its war with Hamas, despite deploying all the latest weaponry from YouTube videos to Twitter blogs and an overworked spokeswoman.
Governments worldwide have slammed the Israeli military onslaught on the Gaza Strip, with the UN Secretary-General, Ban Ki-moon, condemning attacks near UN schools that killed dozens and foreign media angry at being kept out of the Palestinian territory.
With images of parents carrying lifeless children to overwhelmed hospitals dominating international media, protests have been staged in world capitals and Israeli websites reportedly came under cyber attack...
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Originally posted by Jarhum:
googoomuck, Official combatants of the 1967 war were jordan, syria, egypt and Iraq. The rest were not listed as official combatants. In your interpretation, you might as well include Pakistan, Yemen as countries which contributed weapons and troops to the coalition
Oh, now you include Iraq. -
googoomuck, you are pretty mentally challenged, are'nt you? In the post, i did include Iraq. firstly only 3 nations initially amassed their troops of 3 front. (congrats, you got the number of fronts right). then Iraq joined in the fray soon after. Even so, this fact falls short of 3-4 nations as you claim)
So, do not rebut for the sake of arguing. It lowers your dignity..
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Originally posted by Jarhum:
googoomuck, you are pretty mentally challenged, are'nt you? In the post, i did include Iraq. firstly only 3 nations initially amassed their troops of 3 front. (congrats, you got the number of fronts right). then Iraq joined in the fray soon after. Even so, this fact falls short of 3-4 nations as you claim)
So, do not rebut for the sake of arguing. It lowers your dignity..
The war lasted only six days. Which day did Iraq join in the 'fray' (war)?
SAUDI ARABIA - King Faisel sent a message of support to President Nasser and Mecca radio said that Saudi Arabian troops had entered Jordan "to fight on the side of our Arab brothers".
Are you calling King Faisel a liar?