Israel hits Palestine again while West Cheers Them On
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
The world practices double standards. Hamas has also used Palestininan women and children as human shields.
A pretty ironic response don't you think?
That was the issue I was talking about in the first place. Hamas used civilians as human shields. I dont deny that and I feel that it is deplorable. But in the midst of condemning Hamas, we shouldnt forget that Israel also engages in the same practice. What's more, that also shouldnt prevent us from criticising the violations of human rights that the IDF has committed as well as those that Hamas has violated.
That is the double standards I was referring to. Even if the world practices double standards, it doesn't make it right (simple moral lessons that all children learn and you cant get it?).
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
I have acknowledged that Hamas is wrong for the war crimes it has committed and I condemn them for that. But as I have said MANY TIMES (which you have ignored), it is equally wrong to ignore similar war crimes which Israel have committed such as using Palestinians as human shields among others. Dont practice such double standards.
You are the one who's blaming the IDF for the high civilian casualties, where the Hamas militants are the cause of the civilians' deaths.
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Lets all face it people. For true peace in the middle east, and Gaza; either parties must disappear. Either the Israelis or the Palestinians.All this previous attempts at peace, they are pretty redundant and short lasting.
If you want peace, prepare for war
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
That was the issue I was talking about in the first place. Hamas used civilians as human shields. I dont deny that and I feel that it is deplorable. But in the midst of condemning Hamas, we shouldnt forget that Israel also engages in the same practice. What's more, that also shouldnt prevent us from criticising the violations of human rights that the IDF has committed as well as those that Hamas has violated.
That is the double standards I was referring to. Even if the world practices double standards, it doesn't make it right (simple moral lessons that all children learn and you cant get it?).
Nobody's preventing you from criticising. In fact, you left quite a few posts that did that. Did anyone try to stop you? I think most offered their differing opinion, giving an Israeli angle about the whole affair.
So what if it's not right? What can you do about?
Why should Kosovo be allowed to declare independence and North Ossetia disallowed? Why not Taiwan as well?
Every country makes decisions to support their own interest, to enhance their own security. Sad to say, children don't run countries, else they might stick to those "simple" morals that you mentioned.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Nobody's preventing you from criticising. In fact, you left quite a few posts that did that. Did anyone try to stop you? I think most offered their differing opinion, giving an Israeli angle about the whole affair.
So what if it's not right? What can you do about?
Why should Kosovo be allowed to declare independence and North Ossetia disallowed? Why not Taiwan as well?
Every country makes decisions to support their own interest, to enhance their own security. Sad to say, children don't run countries, else they might stick to those "simple" morals that you mentioned.
Given what i've seen of world news and the internet, i begining to think children ARE running countries. -
Originally posted by googoomuck:
You are the one who's blaming the IDF for the high civilian casualties, where the Hamas militants are the cause of the civilians' deaths.
Yes I am. After all, the IDF was doing most of the bombing, causing the high civilian casualties in addition to the IDF's past and present history of human rights violations.
But that's after I recognised that Hamas is also guilty for firing rockets into Israel.
You seem to be capable only of understanding the 2nd paragraph while my first point just disappears down the memory hole for you.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
Yes I am. After all, the IDF was doing most of the bombing, causing the high civilian casualties in addition to the IDF's past and present history of human rights violations.
But that's after I recognised that Hamas is also guilty for firing rockets into Israel.
You seem to be capable only of understanding the 2nd paragraph while my first point just disappears down the memory hole for you.
You deliberately did not mention that Southern Israel have suffered 8 years of rocket fire from Gaza. Between 2001 and 2009, more than 7,000 rockets have hit Southern Israel.
Nearly all Israeli residents living within the rocket range have been traumatized by the frequent sound of air-raid sirens and explosions of incoming projectiles.
Hamas' rocket attacks violate the international humanitarian law prohibitions against attacks that target civilians or are indiscriminate. Hamas also fail to protect Gazan civilians under its control against the consequences of these rocket attacks.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
You deliberately did not mention that Southern Israel have suffered 8 years of rocket fire from Gaza. Between 2001 and 2009, more than 7,000 rockets have hit Southern Israel.
Nearly all Israeli residents living within the rocket range have been traumatized by the frequent sound of air-raid sirens and explosions of incoming projectiles.
Hamas' rocket attacks violate the international humanitarian law prohibitions against attacks that target civilians or are indiscriminate. Hamas also fail to protect Gazan civilians under its control against the consequences of these rocket attacks.
If you want to expand the scope of discussion, then we can also bring in the years of oppression that Gaza has experienced. How they frequently had their borders closed off by Israel, depriving them of food, fuel and medical supplies such that they had to resort to using tunnels to maintain a trickle of supplies.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
If you want to expand the scope of discussion, then we can also bring in the years of oppression that Gaza has experienced. How they frequently had their borders closed off by Israel, depriving them of food, fuel and medical supplies such that they had to resort to using tunnels to maintain a trickle of supplies.
You go first.
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There isn't a need to in the first place. I know that I seem to symphatise with Hamas. But I acknowledge their wrong-doings. No matter what the reason, their actions are deplorable. Likewise, what the IDF has done, and is doing is also morally depraved and should be condemned. You, on the other hand seem to be wilfully ignoring the wrong-doings of the IDF in your blind support for Israel.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
There isn't a need to in the first place. I know that I seem to symphatise with Hamas. But I acknowledge their wrong-doings. No matter what the reason, their actions are deplorable. Likewise, what the IDF has done, and is doing is also morally depraved and should be condemned. You, on the other hand seem to be wilfully ignoring the wrong-doings of the IDF in your blind support for Israel.
i think he feels any casualties caused as a result of hamas' provocation is still hamas' fault.
frankly speaking i'm leaning somewhat in that direction. the whole world seems to think that the IDF are suppose to go in and avoid civilian casualties while taking out hamas at the same time. they're supposed to get hamas only despite hamas using people as human shields. despite gaza being so packed.
haha do you think thats possible?
since they're probably going to die anyway they could have resisted becoming human shields. hamas didn't care and you expect IDF to care?
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
How they frequently had their borders closed off by Israel, depriving them of food, fuel and medical supplies such that they had to resort to using tunnels to maintain a trickle of supplies.
they didn't do it for fun you know. if the palestinians understood their own situations and acted accordingly would all this have happened?
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The UN partitioning of that area is a blardy cruel joke to the Palestinians and Israelis.
Wat the frak . Couldn't they just draw a clean line instead ?
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Because clean lines aren't always possible.
Anyways, theres a nice article on the news lately.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/world/middleeast/22arab.html?_r=1&ref=middleeast
This paragraphy stood out in the article underlining the true nature of organizations such as Hezbollah and Hamas.
“We have written many times, ‘If Hezbollah loves the Palestinians so much they want to fight Israel, why can’t they fight to give the Palestinians human rights in Lebanon?’ ” said Mohammad al-Rumaihi, a newspaper editor in Kuwait. But pressure over the issue is relentless.
Similarly, Hamas has been prosecuting its own political rivals in the Fatah faction pretty violently as well. This is the kind of organization it is, and if it governs a would be Palestine state, it would turn into a repressive regime on its own people. Israel, like what was mentioned in the article, would just be a distraction from their own internal problems and dirt.
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Hi ALL. UN has to step in & solve this problem after all it was the UN that agreed to create the state of Israel in Palestine in 1947. All secretaries general of UN have failed to bring closure to this problem. why? because they allowed one superpower to dictate the proceedings in the security council. How can UN members allow one member (Israel) to ignore all UN resolutions for so many years. Palestinians have only a special representative in the UN with limited rights. All Members of UN have to be sincere and honest to themselves and said enough is enough. If they can do that than there is hope that this mideast problem can be solved.
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Originally posted by BJK:
Hi ALL. UN has to step in & solve this problem after all it was the UN that agreed to create the state of Israel in Palestine in 1947. All secretaries general of UN have failed to bring closure to this problem. why? because they allowed one superpower to dictate the proceedings in the security council. How can UN members allow one member (Israel) to ignore all UN resolutions for so many years. Palestinians have only a special representative in the UN with limited rights. All Members of UN have to be sincere and honest to themselves and said enough is enough. If they can do that than there is hope that this mideast problem can be solved.
If they can do that.. Cows can Fly. -
Originally posted by Shotgun:
Because clean lines aren't always possible.
Anyways, theres a nice article on the news lately.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/world/middleeast/22arab.html?_r=1&ref=middleeast
This paragraphy stood out in the article underlining the true nature of organizations such as Hezbollah and Hamas.
“We have written many times, ‘If Hezbollah loves the Palestinians so much they want to fight Israel, why can’t they fight to give the Palestinians human rights in Lebanon?’ ” said Mohammad al-Rumaihi, a newspaper editor in Kuwait. But pressure over the issue is relentless.
Similarly, Hamas has been prosecuting its own political rivals in the Fatah faction pretty violently as well. This is the kind of organization it is, and if it governs a would be Palestine state, it would turn into a repressive regime on its own people. Israel, like what was mentioned in the article, would just be a distraction from their own internal problems and dirt.
What do you expect from a bunch of Hoodlums who decided to call themselves politicians ?
Who says a clean line cannot be done ? The British did it with Ireland.
Freakin map of Palestine/Israel looks like a jigsaw puzzle. No wonder there's no peace there.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
If they can do that.. Cows can Fly.
flying cow, a famous chinese local milk brand. -
Originally posted by angel7030:
flying cow, a famous chinese local milk brand.The other ( official ) animal is politcally incorrect mah.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
That was the issue I was talking about in the first place. Hamas used civilians as human shields. I dont deny that and I feel that it is deplorable. But in the midst of condemning Hamas, we shouldnt forget that Israel also engages in the same practice. What's more, that also shouldnt prevent us from criticising the violations of human rights that the IDF has committed as well as those that Hamas has violated.
That is the double standards I was referring to. Even if the world practices double standards, it doesn't make it right (simple moral lessons that all children learn and you cant get it?).
Fc, i know and understand where you are comming from.Believe me, my tears well up with each Israeli bullet or bomb that tears into a Gaza apartment, for i know there will be innocent men, women and children inside, while watching the war footage on CNN, similarly with every humanitarian on Earth who cares, as well as the Israeli citizens.
Children, MY GOD! CHILDREN! I love children, not in the Micheal Jackson presumed ways. They are born innocent. Their unconditional trust and love in adults are out of this world, ephemeral and a pureness i know would never exist in the real adult world. Why, God, why the most innocent of them?
No Israeli wanted this to happen, but the world did not bother when Israeli citizens, mothers, fathers, children, were murdered by Hamas' missiles. The Israelis did what they had to do to protect their citizens, even after much restrain no soveriegn nation would ever do the same.
I know you care, and am glad you care too. None of this would have happened if Hamas would stop their genocidal constitution and harming of Israeli citizens thru murders. We are civilised humans with brains prepared to compromise and negotiations. But Hamas and radical muslims do not have such faculties.
They wanted and willed Israeli bullets and bombs to their own fellow citizens as sacrifice, to draw condemnation to Israeli. This is atrocious! Innocent lives are NEVER, NEVER bargining chips! But Hamas didnt care. Nor do radical muslims around the world cares.
Thus, I weep.
By all means, KC, hold Israel acountable. Hamas would be glad, happy and be more than willing to provide more muslims innocents as 'sacrifice'. It will never end till every innocent palestinian is dead except the terrorist leaders.
This is what Hamas wants. Your sympathy, loud whines and funds so that they and their kind can continue to kill more 'jews and infidels'.
Ban Ki Moon, the UN leader, should resign. He is a disgrace to the very noble constitution of UN charter. He is not effective as a leader or as a inspired negotiator, and did nothing to stop months ahead of this trajedy on Hamas' missiles.
He had failed in Myanmar, Somali, Iraq, and now Gaza. Tell him to save the crocodile tears. His foresight is lacking and hindsight atrocious.
Holms, a humanitarian UN leader I look up to, is more realistic, but there is only so much he can do, and not be twisted by so called 'humanitarians' whom made use of his office to repress others further. He is not the top dog in UN or empowered to do anything.I would like to wallow in sadness, but for the sake of my fellow humans of the palestinian citizenship, I do know there is a solution avaliable.
But if only moderate Muslims around the world would be courageous enough to get out of their comfort zone and apathetic ways like i once was, condemn Hamas and demand their ideology of genocide and suicide be rendered blasphemous, and then the palestinians and the middle east will know a golden era of peace.
But will they? I don't know. Drowning in red wine over despair is my only solace now, inorder that i may know a good night's rest.. I am realistic enough to know that i am only a nobody afterall, have no say in national affairs let alone the world's.
Thanks for hearing me out.