Israel hits Palestine again while West Cheers Them On
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
You just post videos and photos under the heading of Palestinian militants.
Yet i see nothing in the videos that state its origin, or whether if it's even Palestinians in it. Please provide more information to better clarify what we're seeing.
I knew it. I knew it.
Where else in the world does the UNRWA operate from?
I got the middle picture from BBC.
The UNRWA is not trustworthy. The employees are Palestinians. Some of them are Hamas. If you don't believe, you go ask Peter Hanson.
Does anyone still puzzle over why UNRWA's premises and assets are always 'deliberately targeted' for destruction?
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Originally posted by Jarhum:
Mancha, I have great intent to report you to the authorities with regards to your "personal opinion"I have personally printed and referred your article to several lawyer friends of mine who have stated its pretty obvious your "personal opinion" will land you in deep shit.
Your articles are not relevent to this discussion at all but you are merely demonizing the Muslims and Islamic faith. I hope you realize in Singapore, your actions willfully attack people of a certain faith.
Anyway I suppose you are already prepared since you know your personal opinions have grave implications for yourself.
Jarhum
If you scroll back to all the previous pages you will see that I refrain from joining the "discussion". This is delilberate, because it will lead to nowhere. I do not use "other peoples' ideas or reports" as ammunition. Remember my post about being ask a question by an archangel.
So what I post here is my own. Pun, humour, scarcasm, opinion, suggestions, whatever, up to the reader to assess. In your abject biasness you fail to notice that I am not in alliance with any other forumers here. It is your "If you are not with us, you are against us" mentality that make you group me as an Zionist extremist. I laugh at that. 1. You hate labeling, 2. Not all Jews are Zionist. (You should know that very well). 3. I am certainly not a Jew.
You also quoted me out of context. Are you not demonising me? Here is what I wrote,
"Individually I have no quarrel with Muslims, but collectively I do not trust the "jemmiah islamiah". They are evil, like the communist of the Stalin, Mao era. The grassroots are the sheeps, it is the higher hierachy that are wolf in sheep clothings. Everywhere, when a Muslim community is small, they behave peacefully............"
compare it with what you attributed to me.
Originally posted by Jarhum:jojobch,
Mancha's 'personal opinion' is not a mere commentary on the actions of terrorists who are Muslims by name but rather an attack on the Muslim community as a whole which is most certainly tantamount to an act of sedition. I am sorry you perceive the writer's opinion wrongly. Allow me to quote:
"but collectively I do not trust the "jemmiah islamiah". They are evil.
"Everywhere, when a Muslim community is small, they behave peacefully, but when they grow, they become belligerent, discriminatory, and oppressive and imperialistic contrary to the tenets promised in their theology."
This statement is not associated to terrorists act by al-qaeda or JI for they are of the minority few. The acts of this people who comprise of a minute proportion of the larger muslim world are condoned by the larger muslim community. However, this renegade asserts that the larger Muslim community is as such.
I am not appalled at an individuals ignorance of Islam or its history but rather appalled towards baseless assertion which contradicts history or whichever subject matter which concerns it.
The moral of the story is, If you are not well informed with regards to a certain topic, refrain from making wild, asserting statements which may result in widespread consequences.
Your incapacity to comprehend with simple assertions baffles me. Your constant referrence to analogies reflect your inability for full understanding.
Let me put acroos this point in your own words, " If i'm a doctor I would not reprimand or be appalled with a patient for his ignorance about his health condition but rather his odesity to argue with baseless and unfounded as well as even contradictory statements with someone who has exercised due dilligence on the topic."
If you really think I lack COMMON SENSE, you are most welcome to challenge me to a discussion or debate. This is the second time I have made this invitation which you have avoided.
If I were you, I rather distant myself from Mancha's "Personal Opinion"
Jarhum
What do you think is my personal opinion of you now?
Peace man, if you cannot see the problem, you cannot begin to address it.
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
I'm sure i'm accurate in stating that Hamas was voted in by the Palestinian people, meaning a significant portion of the Palestinian people agrees with Hamas' doctrines, am i correct to put it that way ?
Meaning what Hamas is doing, is being supported by the Palestinian people at least in the Gaza strip. You keep speaking of Hamas as if it is a seperate entity, as if Hamas is forcing the Palestinian people at gunpoint to fire rockets at Israel.
And the links you posted.
Indoctrinated Palestinian 3 Year Old
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeTqheFnBM0&feature=relatedThis is published by a Saudi Arabia Television network. There is no mention of whether the girl was a Palestinian or not. You just believed the title and didn't watch the content.
11-year-old Palestinians: Martyrdom better than this world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dPb1bF-s4MThis is published by the Palestinian Media Watch. Do not let the name deceive you because it is not headed by Palestinians, but by Itamar Marcus, a Israeli counter terrorism analyst. There is already a conflict on interest on producing this video.
Hamas Uses Mickey Mouse Look-Alike teaching racism to kids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s70KlZwb9RE&NR=1The same, published by the Palestinian Media Watch.
First and foremost, none of us knows Arabic (Or whatever dialect that the Palestinian people uses) So whether the language used in the video is accurate or not we do not know and i do not understand why there must be English subtitles for a children show for the Palestinian people, and considering that they only have 1 coal fired power plant, with constant breakdowns i find it difficult to believe they even have the electricity power for televisions.
You don't even question the information you are feeding yourself with, what makes you think you really understand the situation ?
You have shown great courtesy in being civil in this discussion and i am compelled to do the same. However, i must need to point out the flaws in your reasoning for this debate to be meaningful
Fair enough that my Arabic is rudimentary at best. (My bad for getting used to the anime style of fansubbing) I'll see if I can get some of my friends who used to work in ME tell me whether its accurate or not then. However, I did make out some words out of all arabic verses flying over my head, then again it could have been out of context. The subtitles were added for us people who watch it on youtube by the Palestinian Media Watch who are trying to create awareness of the Palestinian situation.
But just a little question. Don't you think the comment box of those videos would have been flooded by arabic speakers screaming for blood for mistranslating if that was the case?
Yes, I am well aware of who runs Palestinian Media Watch. But if we make 2 presumptions, that 1, the children featured were not Israelis, and 2, that the content of the subtitling was true, what does that say?
@freedomclub
Then if Hamas doesn't go, one power doesn't give way to the other, the cycle continues. And we'd all be on this forums arguing to the point of raised blood pressures over it. Doesn't move away from that direction does it?
And if for some reason, after Hamas collapses, and the Israelis really do oppress the Palestinians... and the UN or Arab league doesn't intervene; what does it tell us about their attitude to the Palestinians? Despite them screaming for blood everytime an Israeli missile strike targets Hamas HQs, they pretty much don't care for the Palestinians.
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Let's clear some myths and misconception:-
A) Palestine Legislative Council
1. The president of the Palestinian National Authority is a position directly voted by the palestinian people, and has the power to appoint a Prime Minister from the Palestinian Legislative Council whom he shares power.
Mahmoud Abbas is the current President.
2. Hamas, an islamic militant group, won 76 seats while Fatah, won 43 seats in the Legislative Council, in the national election in 2006, even though exit polls showed Fatah having a majority of 42% of votes while Hamas only 35%.
Monitors of the election declared the elections were 'well-administered', but they fail to observe the most important part of the voting process - the gathering and counting of votes.
3. Rather than to form a coalitian government and responsibly serve its constituents, Hamas, with its 'death to jews and infidels' ideology, seize control of Gaza, murdered Fatah political members, UN workers, as well as civilians between June 7 to June 15,2007 in the Gaza Strip. They totally disregarded and ignored their head of state President Abbas.
The Terrorist group Hamas may had won with its strong arms tactics, but it is a myth to believe they have ALL the palestinians support.
Exit polls showed only 35% of palestinians support them. 65% of palestinians are suffering now in their hands, with the other 35% having dubious thoughts about their vote now.
Hitler too, won in a democratic election. So did the mad president from Iran with an unbelievable vote count of 62%.
B.) Sanctity of UN centres & other humanitarian organistion sites
The UN and other humanitarian organsitions must forthwith seek an independent audit into the use of its centres and staff being compromised as arsenals and hiding grounds for combatants, as well as the integrity of its staff, be they doctors or drivers of being biased and supportive of combatants.
If not, no one will trust the sanctity of UN premises and would be death-traps for refugees, propaganda material for terrorists, as well as loss of valuable donated equipment and food for them.
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Real, lasting peace in the Middle-East can only come about when all the Arabs and the power holders realise that the co-existing is the only solution.
Time for the power holders to feed its people with the real stuff. Time to
1) tell its people that they cannot reproduce at God's will and, in return, generate mass poverty,
2) train its people with useful real world skills and not merely with the Word of God,
3) realise that the Isrealis are their flesh and blood, ie their cousins, separated by religion.
4) realise that the call for the destruction or the annihilation of Isreal is based on past religion dogma and not on reality of today. -
Noam Chomsky: Undermining Gaza
DOSSANI: The Israeli government and many Israeli and U.S. officials claim that the current assault on Gaza is to put an end to the flow of Qassam rockets from Gaza into Israel. But many observers claim that if that were really the case, Israel would have made much more of an effort to renew the ceasefire agreement that expired in December, which had all but stopped the rocket fire. In your opinion, what are the real motivations behind the current Israeli action?
CHOMSKY: There's a theme that goes way back to the origins of Zionism. And it's a very rational theme: "Let's delay negotiations and diplomacy as long as possible, and meanwhile we'll 'build facts on the ground.'" So Israel will create the basis for what some eventual agreement will ratify, but the more they create, the more they construct, the better the agreement will be for their purposes. Those purposes are essentially to take over everything of value in the former Palestine and to undermine what's left of the indigenous population.
I think one of the reasons for popular support for this in the United States is that it resonates very well with American history. How did the United States get established? The themes are similar.
There are many examples of this theme being played out throughout Israel's history, and the current situation is another case. They have a very clear program. Rational hawks like Ariel Sharon realized that it's crazy to keep 8,000 settlers using one-third of the land and much of the scarce supplies in Gaza, protected by a large part of the Israeli army while the rest of the society around them is just rotting. So it's best to take them out and send them to the West Bank. That's the place that they really care about and want.
What was called a "disengagement" in September 2005 was actually a transfer. They were perfectly frank and open about it. In fact, they extended settlement building programs in the West Bank at the very same time that they were withdrawing a few thousand people from Gaza. So Gaza should be turned into a cage, a prison basically, with Israel attacking it at will, and meanwhile in the West Bank we'll take what we want. There was nothing secret about it.
Ehud Olmert was in the United States in May 2006 a couple of months after the withdrawal. He simply announced to a joint session of Congress and to rousing applause, that the historic right of Jews to the entire land of Israel is beyond question. He announced what he called his convergence program, which is just a version of the traditional program; it goes back to the Allon plan of 1967. Israel would essentially annex valuable land and resources near the green line (the 1967 border). That land is now behind the wall that Israel built in the West Bank, which is an annexation wall. That means the arable land, the main water resources, the pleasant suburbs around Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, and the hills and so on. They'll take over the Jordan valley, which is about a third of the West Bank, where they've been settling since the late 60s. Then they'll drive a couple of super highways through the whole territory — there's one to the east of Jerusalem to the town of Ma'aleh Adumim which was built mostly in the 1990s, during the Oslo years. It was built essentially to bisect the West Bank and are two others up north that includes Ariel and Kedumim and other towns which pretty much bisect what's left. They'll set up check points and all sorts of means of harassment in the other areas and the population that's left will be essentially cantonized and unable to live a decent life and if they want to leave, great. Or else they will be picturesque figures for tourists — you know somebody leading a goat up a hill in the distance — and meanwhile Israelis, including settlers, will drive around on "Israeli only" super highways. Palestinians can make do with some little road somewhere where you're falling into a ditch if it's raining. That's the goal. And it's explicit. You can't accuse them of deception because it's explicit. And it's cheered here.
DOSSANI: In terms of U.S. support, last week the UN Security Council adopted a resolution calling for a cease fire. Is this a change, particularly in light of the fact that the U.S. did not veto the resolution, but rather abstained, allowing it to be passed?
CHOMSKY: Right after the 1967 war, the Security Council had strong resolutions condemning Israel's move to expand and take over Jerusalem. Israel just ignored them. Because the U.S. pats them on the head and says "go ahead and violate them." There's a whole series of resolutions from then up until today, condemning the settlements, which as Israel knew and as everyone agreed were in violation of the Geneva conventions. The United States either vetoes the resolutions or sometimes votes for them, but with a wink saying, "go ahead anyway, and we'll pay for it and give you the military support for it." It's a consistent pattern. During the Oslo years, for example, settlement construction increased steadily, in violation of what the Oslo agreement was theoretically supposed to lead to. In fact the peak year of settlement was Clinton's last year, 2000. And it continued again afterward. It's open and explicit.
To get back to the question of motivation, they have sufficient military control over the West Bank to terrorize the population into passivity. Now that control is enhanced by the collaborationist forces that the U.S., Jordan, and Egypt have trained in order to subdue the population. In fact if you take a look at the press the last couple of weeks, if there's a demonstration in the West Bank in support of Gaza, the Fatah security forces crush it. That's what they're there for. Fatah by now is more or less functioning as Israel's police force in the West Bank. But the West Bank is only part of the occupied Palestinian territories. The other part is Gaza, and no one doubts that they form a unit. And there still is resistance in Gaza, those rockets. So yes, they want to stamp that out too, then there will be no resistance at all and they can continue to do what they want to do without interference, meanwhile delaying diplomacy as much as possible and "building the facts" the way they want to. Again this goes back to the origins of Zionism. It varies of course depending on circumstances, but the fundamental policy is the same and perfectly understandable. If you want to take over a country where the population doesn't want you, I mean, how else can you do it? How was this country conquered?
DOSSANI: What you describe is a tragedy.
CHOMSKY: It's a tragedy which is made right here. The press won't talk about it and even scholarship, for the most part, won't talk about it but the fact of the matter is that there has been a political settlement on the table, on the agenda for 30 years. Namely a two-state settlement on the international borders with maybe some mutual modification of the border. That's been there officially since 1976 when there was a Security Council resolution proposed by the major Arab states and supported by the (Palestinan Liberation Organization) PLO, pretty much in those terms. The United States vetoed it so it's therefore out of history and it's continued almost without change since then.
There was in fact one significant modification. In the last month of Clinton's term, January 2001 there were negotiations, which the U.S. authorized, but didn't participate in, between Israel and the Palestinians and they came very close to agreement.
DOSSANI: The Taba negotiations?
Yes, the Taba negotiations. The two sides came very close to agreement. They were called off by Israel. But that was the one week in over 30 years when the United States and Israel abandoned their rejectionist position. It's a real tribute to the media and other commentators that they can keep this quiet. The U.S. and Israel are alone in this. The international consensus includes virtually everyone. It includes the Arab League which has gone beyond that position and called for the normalization of relations, it includes Hamas. Every time you see Hamas in the newspapers, it says "Iranian-backed Hamas which wants to destroy Israel." Try to find a phrase that says "democratically elected Hamas which is calling for a two-state settlement" and has been for years. Well, yeah, that's a good propaganda system. Even in the U.S. press they've occasionally allowed op-eds by Hamas leaders, Ismail Haniya and others saying, yes we want a two-state settlement on the international border like everyone else.
DOSSANI: When did Hamas adopt that position?
CHOMSKY That's their official position taken by Haniya, the elected leader, and Khalid Mesh'al, their political leader who's in exile in Syria, he's written the same thing. And it's over and over again. There's no question about it but the West doesn't want to hear it. So therefore it's Hamas which is committed to the destruction of Israel.
In a sense they are, but if you went to a Native American reservation in the United States, I'm sure many would like to see the destruction of the United States. If you went to Mexico and took a poll, I'm sure they don't recognize the right of the United States to exist sitting on half of Mexico, land conquered in war. And that's true all over the world. But they're willing to accept a political settlement. Israel isn't willing to accept it and the United States isn't willing to accept it. And they're the lone hold-outs. Since it's the United States that pretty much runs the world, it's blocked.
Here it's always presented as though the United States must become more engaged; it's an honest broker; Bush's problem was that he neglected the issue. That's not the problem. The problem is that the United States has been very much engaged, and engaged in blocking a political settlement and giving the material and ideological and diplomatic support for the expansion programs, which are just criminal programs. The world court unanimously, including the American justice, agreed that any transfer of population into the Occupied Territories is a violation of a fundamental international law, the Geneva Conventions. And Israel agrees. In fact even their courts agree, they just sort of sneak around it in various devious ways. So there's no question about this. It's just sort of accepted in the United States that we're an outlaw state. Law doesn't apply to us. That's why it's never discussed.
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another link, cut and paste shabby work...the lecturer wants my opinons and writing not link and cut and paste...uncle, please lah, like this i sure fail in my political science project one lah.
Give opinons leh, come here to link, cut and paste, who dunno?
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Fair enough that my Arabic is rudimentary at best. (My bad for getting used to the anime style of fansubbing) I'll see if I can get some of my friends who used to work in ME tell me whether its accurate or not then. However, I did make out some words out of all arabic verses flying over my head, then again it could have been out of context. The subtitles were added for us people who watch it on youtube by the Palestinian Media Watch who are trying to create awareness of the Palestinian situation.
But just a little question. Don't you think the comment box of those videos would have been flooded by arabic speakers screaming for blood for mistranslating if that was the case?
Yes, I am well aware of who runs Palestinian Media Watch. But if we make 2 presumptions, that 1, the children featured were not Israelis, and 2, that the content of the subtitling was true, what does that say?
@freedomclub
Then if Hamas doesn't go, one power doesn't give way to the other, the cycle continues. And we'd all be on this forums arguing to the point of raised blood pressures over it. Doesn't move away from that direction does it?
And if for some reason, after Hamas collapses, and the Israelis really do oppress the Palestinians... and the UN or Arab league doesn't intervene; what does it tell us about their attitude to the Palestinians? Despite them screaming for blood everytime an Israeli missile strike targets Hamas HQs, they pretty much don't care for the Palestinians.
I accept that yes it is quite possible that if it was inaccurate there should be Arabic speakers pointing out the problem.
But we must considering the amount of internet usage in the Middle East ( 2.9%, 41,939,200). How many among these users even frequent English websites or know enough of it to navigate youtube to see the mentioned videos ? How many could even go into youtube (Iran, UAE, Turkey, Syria, Kuwait, Pakistan bans it, claiming to want to stop anti Muslim websites)
*corrected, UAE or Saudi Arabia does allow youtube. But apparently there are blocks in place for "objectable", "blasphemous material" content. What exactly does this entails i have no idea.
Considering the amount of hate on those videos, what would happen to a user that is not fluent in English and attempted to say those videos are false ? Hell we don't even know a lot about what Malaysians are saying about us.
I ask this because i have China friends and they spent much of their internet time on Chinese websites and rarely go into the English websites because even though they're schooled in English they're not fluent enough to fully understand what is being said.
I never said the children was Israelis nor did i say the subtitling was false. I'm merely skeptic about information in all forms and question the intention of those who posted the videos, who has a vested interest in not reporting truthfully. It's not like the Palestinians are internet literate and know English enough to provide counter arguments.
Our media tells us a lot of positive news about how good the PAP are and how good our leaders. Even i myself are skeptic about the information, i'm not arrogant enough to presume that the majority of Palestinians are stupid enough to believe everything their television tells them, you think their economic stituation allows them to sit like couch potatoes with nothing to do like the Americans?
Hell, i'm not even sure how much of them really believe in the 75 virgins bull the Western media say they are so obsessed about. People are so influenced by what the Western media tells them they can't even see people in the Middle East like a normal human being anymore.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Palestinian militants using UN ambulance as transport.
A robot collecting the explosive charge
that was hidden inside a "Red Crescent" ambulance.Picture below showed a Palestinian militant loading a rocket onto a UN ambulance under cover of the night. Maybe it's just a folded stretcher.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
When the Hamas used its citizens as human shields, everyone condoned it. When IDF used an enemy as bait, everyone condemned it.
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No one is condoning Hamas' practice of using human shields. It is clear to any one with a conscience that it is wrong. But to overlook the same crime committed by Israel is equally wrong. After so many posts, can you understand that?
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and this is why there can never be peace there..
Hamas being dumbasses again.. not to excuse the Israelis from also being dumbasses..
=> Militants fire 6 rocket into Israel after ceasefire
the world and the UN has to wake the fuck up that the assholes running the Palestinians don't want peace...
i bet if you gave them a pile of land for them to call their own, the whole place will become a shithole slum and they'll go attack Israel anyway...
they did that to Jordan long ago.. and a few other of their "Muslim brethern"
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
No one is condoning Hamas' practice of using human shields. It is clear to any one with a conscience that it is wrong. But to overlook the same crime committed by Israel is equally wrong. After so many posts, can you understand that?
Hamas's use of civilians as shields resulted in many civilian deaths. Anybody cannot undestand this?
If almost half of Palestinians casualties were militants(since Palestinians claimed that half the casualties were civilians), the ratio is 1:1.
It indicates that IDF do make efforts to minimise civilian casualties.
Anybody still cannot fathom why IDF casualties are always higher than the Israeli civilian casualties in a war?
Picture this
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Originally posted by Jarhum:
When did I ever mentioned that Muslims in the Middle East envision an era of peace? I challenge you to prove that I made this statement.
Never did I mention every Israeli who is in the army is a zionist. Rather the bulk of the political and miliatry elite.
It is an academic crime to wilfully charge a person of making a statement by directing accusations without evidence.
Come on, prove i made those staements.
That is a political statement from many Muslims in the Middle East. Did I said you made such a statement?
Next I asked whether any Israeli who defends his country a Zionist? Does not need to be in the army. But I did bring up the topic on Kahane. There is a difference between a Zionist and a Kahanist.
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Originally posted by the Bear:
and this is why there can never be peace there..
Hamas being dumbasses again.. not to excuse the Israelis from also being dumbasses..
=> Militants fire 6 rocket into Israel after ceasefire
the world and the UN has to wake the fuck up that the assholes running the Palestinians don't want peace...
i bet if you gave them a pile of land for them to call their own, the whole place will become a shithole slum and they'll go attack Israel anyway...
they did that to Jordan long ago.. and a few other of their "Muslim brethern"
Agreed. I would so far as to suggest that instead of sending in troops to Palestine, Israel should return tit for tat with bigger and intelligent rockets.
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Originally posted by the Bear:
and this is why there can never be peace there..
Hamas being dumbasses again.. not to excuse the Israelis from also being dumbasses..
=> Militants fire 6 rocket into Israel after ceasefire
the world and the UN has to wake the fuck up that the assholes running the Palestinians don't want peace...
i bet if you gave them a pile of land for them to call their own, the whole place will become a shithole slum and they'll go attack Israel anyway...
they did that to Jordan long ago.. and a few other of their "Muslim brethern"
Agreed. I would so far as to suggest that instead of sending in troops to Palestine, Israel should return tit for tat with bigger and intelligent rockets.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
lol
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
so true
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Hamas being dumbasses again.. not to excuse the Israelis from also being dumbasses..
Hamas didn't declare ceasefire, only Israel.
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
I accept that yes it is quite possible that if it was inaccurate there should be Arabic speakers pointing out the problem.
But we must considering the amount of internet usage in the Middle East ( 2.9%, 41,939,200). How many among these users even frequent English websites or know enough of it to navigate youtube to see the mentioned videos ? How many could even go into youtube (Iran, UAE, Turkey, Syria, Kuwait, Pakistan bans it, claiming to want to stop anti Muslim websites)
*corrected, UAE or Saudi Arabia does allow youtube. But apparently there are blocks in place for "objectable", "blasphemous material" content. What exactly does this entails i have no idea.
Considering the amount of hate on those videos, what would happen to a user that is not fluent in English and attempted to say those videos are false ? Hell we don't even know a lot about what Malaysians are saying about us.
I ask this because i have China friends and they spent much of their internet time on Chinese websites and rarely go into the English websites because even though they're schooled in English they're not fluent enough to fully understand what is being said.
I never said the children was Israelis nor did i say the subtitling was false. I'm merely skeptic about information in all forms and question the intention of those who posted the videos, who has a vested interest in not reporting truthfully. It's not like the Palestinians are internet literate and know English enough to provide counter arguments.
Our media tells us a lot of positive news about how good the PAP are and how good our leaders. Even i myself are skeptic about the information, i'm not arrogant enough to presume that the majority of Palestinians are stupid enough to believe everything their television tells them, you think their economic stituation allows them to sit like couch potatoes with nothing to do like the Americans?
Hell, i'm not even sure how much of them really believe in the 75 virgins bull the Western media say they are so obsessed about. People are so influenced by what the Western media tells them they can't even see people in the Middle East like a normal human being anymore.
Dude, you're forgetting that there are a lot of very modernized Arabs who live in the United States and UK. You're forgetting there are even Arabs living in Singapore.
There is also another big group; non-Arabs who are fluent in Arabic.
Throw all these people together, thats a whole lot of people who could be screaming blood for fraudulent translations don't you think? Or are is it also your claim that anyone who is well versed in Arabic don't surf youtube?
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Hamas's use of civilians as shields resulted in many civilian deaths. Anybody cannot undestand this?
If almost half of Palestinians casualties were militants(since Palestinians claimed that half the casualties were civilians), the ratio is 1:1.
It indicates that IDF do make efforts to minimise civilian casualties.
Anybody still cannot fathom why IDF casualties are always higher than the Israeli civilian casualties in a war?
Picture this
Hamas's use of civilians as shields resulted in many civilian deaths. Anybody cannot undestand this?
Have I made a point contrary to that? In fact, I acknowledged that Hamas' using of human shields has resulted in civilian deaths many times earlier on. Can you read? Can you answer a direct question? I'm just asking you to look at the war crimes the IDF has committed, the same war crimes that Hamas has committed. Yet you are willfully ignoring whatever question or content I post. Instead of condemning one side of committing war crimes, why can't you see that both parties do not, or cannot, respect human rights? Is it so antithetical to your conditioning that you cannot accept it and constantly evade the issue?
If almost half of Palestinians casualties were militants(since Palestinians claimed that half the casualties were civilians), the ratio is 1:1.
It indicates that IDF do make efforts to minimise civilian casualties.
I've already posted information showing the contrary.
Picture this
Now that picture is an example of the "propaganda" that you like to condemn. Which armed force wouldnt produce something like that to try winning the support of its population? So you're saying that such a picture should be taken as fact, that the IDF is made up of noble and altruistic soldiers? Soldiers that would never commit the atrocities that the US Army or any occupying army would inflict on an enemy population? Again, I already presented information that demonstrates that the IDF, just like any army, is capable of committing violations of human rights, just like how Hamas uses human shields.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
Hamas's use of civilians as shields resulted in many civilian deaths. Anybody cannot undestand this?
Have I made a point contrary to that? In fact, I acknowledged that Hamas' using of human shields has resulted in civilian deaths many times earlier on. Can you read? Can you answer a direct question? I'm just asking you to look at the war crimes the IDF has committed, the same war crimes that Hamas has committed. Yet you are willfully ignoring whatever question or content I post. Instead of condemning one side of committing war crimes, why can't you see that both parties do not, or cannot, respect human rights? Is it so antithetical to your conditioning that you cannot accept it and constantly evade the issue?
If almost half of Palestinians casualties were militants(since Palestinians claimed that half the casualties were civilians), the ratio is 1:1.
It indicates that IDF do make efforts to minimise civilian casualties.
I've already posted information showing the contrary.
Picture this
Now that picture is an example of the "propaganda" that you like to condemn. Which armed force wouldnt produce something like that to try winning the support of its population? So you're saying that such a picture should be taken as fact, that the IDF is made up of noble and altruistic soldiers? Soldiers that would never commit the atrocities that the US Army or any occupying army would inflict on an enemy population? Again, I already presented information that demonstrates that the IDF, just like any army, is capable of committing violations of human rights, just like how Hamas uses human shields.
This picture is the truth !
In a Newsweek article, UNWRA 's John Ging said: ....there may have been instances elsewhere where Hamas militants used civilians as human shields, but that still doesn't justify the level of destruction.
Journalist Christopher Dickey said: Its(IDF) attempt to stop Hamas from firing rockets onto its territory is justifiable, but the kind of urban warfare Israel is engaged in now is a hideous business. Soldiers move into and through a dense maze of ambushes and booby traps, constantly threatened by snipers and would-be martyrs making their last stands. Even the most disciplined troops are likely to shoot anything that moves. When you're doing this in one of the most densely populated places on earth—where half of the population is younger than 17—a lot of children will be cut to pieces in the crossfire. There's no way around it.
The rest of the article is predictable. Both acknowledged that Hamas used civilians as human shields but just like you, freedomclub, they condemned Israel and spared Hamas.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
This picture is the truth !
In a Newsweek article, UNWRA 's John Ging said: ....there may have been instances elsewhere where Hamas militants used civilians as human shields, but that still doesn't justify the level of destruction.
Journalist Christopher Dickey said: Its(IDF) attempt to stop Hamas from firing rockets onto its territory is justifiable, but the kind of urban warfare Israel is engaged in now is a hideous business. Soldiers move into and through a dense maze of ambushes and booby traps, constantly threatened by snipers and would-be martyrs making their last stands. Even the most disciplined troops are likely to shoot anything that moves. When you're doing this in one of the most densely populated places on earth—where half of the population is younger than 17—a lot of children will be cut to pieces in the crossfire. There's no way around it.
The rest of the article is predictable. Both acknowledged that Hamas used civilians as human shields but just like you, freedomclub, they condemned Israel and spared Hamas.
I have acknowledged that Hamas is wrong for the war crimes it has committed and I condemn them for that. But as I have said MANY TIMES (which you have ignored), it is equally wrong to ignore similar war crimes which Israel have committed such as using Palestinians as human shields among others. Dont practice such double standards.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
I have acknowledged that Hamas is wrong for the war crimes it has committed and I condemn them for that. But as I have said MANY TIMES (which you have ignored), it is equally wrong to ignore similar war crimes which Israel have committed such as using Palestinians as human shields among others. Dont practice such double standards.
The world practices double standards. Hamas has also used Palestininan women and children as human shields.
A pretty ironic response don't you think?
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