If you are leaving Singapore, where will you go?!
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where would i go to if i leave singapore?ans:
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
ot sure if we understand each other, what I am saying is that Australia has been open to immigrants, and for years these immigrants have been getting jobs in australia, while I believe the immigrants have worked hard and earned their position, I have not heard the local australians complaining about these immigrants taking over their jobs, or that the immigrants were given special priviledges by the government!
Singapore is now open to more immigrants, but the locals are complaining that the immigrants are taking over their jobs, and that the government is giving them special priviledges.
So, IF, the australian complains, then they would be behaving like some singaporean here. IF they don't, then there is lesson on magnanimity some of us can learn here.
It is different to say that we can't communicate with a somali in Australia, and making all somali to speak english before they are allowed in australia. If the guy can't speak english you just go find another one who does, here we are saying to them "you bloody well speak english if you want to be in Singapore."
hmmm...lionnoisy may not like what I say, but if this is the situation in Australia, then this is something we need to learn, no?
Thanks for clarifying, but I'm still having trouble seeing how that gels with this other statement that you made:
Originally posted by sgdiehard:Well, I think the discrimination there is more racial than anything. The brits who migrant to Australia and american will certainly be treated better than asian and eastern european.Could you please clarify how I'm meant to reconcile the two points, which seem to be diametrically opposed to each other?
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
Just to add in more info, immigration policies in Australia are tightening. Where, you could apply for a work visa independently, now you can only apply given the following conditions:(1) When there is an Australia company that has hired you and will sponsor your visa
(2) When there is a state in Australia who will sponsor your visa
Getting (1) or (2) is very difficult since the company or state MUST justify why they need foreigners. Therefore, its becoming harder to immigrate to Australia.
Singapore is very much different. We are opening the tidegates and let the foreigners flood the market until even the locals die.
It doesn't hurt me, coz the so-called foreign-talents in Singapore cannot do my job. But this flooding has affected many of our fellow Singaporans whose jobs can be worked on by the foreigners, who are willing to accept lower pay and longer working hours.
As I mentioned, sgdiehard knows nothing, and yet wants to comment on Singaporeans, then Americans, Canadians, Australians.
PS: Stevenson101, thanks for the insight on the gaming industry. It's pretty interesting to know what is going on over there. Are there any govt grants given to companies to train locals, or the companies are just continously hiring foreigners?
Just to expand, soul_rage, the employer-sponsored worker scheme is only one of the types of visas available, and it's really not the best way to go because it puts you in a Catch-22 situation where employers aren't going to hire you unless you have work rights, and you can't get work rights unless someone hires you.
There's also skilled migration, where residency is granted based upon what applicants bring to the table in terms of skills. It works on a points-based system, with more points being attached to skills that address shortfalls in the Australian workforce. The threshold to be crossed is revised regularly in order to cut off applicants at the immigration quota set for the year (which was 190,300 the last time I checked). The advantage of this system is that it resolves the Catch-22 and also helps ensure that the right balance of skills is found in the Australian workforce.
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Originally posted by HITMAN11111111111:
OMFG. Who lives there, Uday Hussein?
Vile.
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This 2,000 This 2,000 square foot home, built in 2001, is actually built around a smaller cottage-style house that has stood in that location for decades. The cottage house almost looks like a gigantic version of a dollhouse inside of the huge storage shed that forms the exterior of this innovative house. The 3 bedroom 2.5 bath home is also made from 5 large shipping containers – 3 on the bottom, and 2 stacked on top of those. This place also contains all of the modern features of a ‘normal’ home, but it’s supposedly built to last much longer. The creator of this innovative home is Adam Kalkin, and he’s actually selling these homes for as little as $76,000, or less than $100 per square foot – not a bad deal considering traditional construction of a new home averages about double that amount. -
Originally posted by HITMAN11111111111:This 2,000
This 2,000 square foot home, built in 2001, is actually built
around a smaller cottage-style house that has stood in that
location for decades. The cottage house almost looks like a
gigantic version of a dollhouse inside of the huge storage shed
that forms the exterior of this innovative house. The 3
bedroom 2.5 bath home is also made from 5 large shipping containers
– 3 on the bottom, and 2 stacked on top of those. This place
also contains all of the modern features of a ‘normal’ home, but
it’s supposedly built to last much longer. The creator of this
innovative home is Adam Kalkin, and he’s actually selling these
homes for as little as $76,000, or less than $100 per square foot
– not a bad deal considering traditional construction of a
new home averages about double that amount.
Looks like someone's not done playing with doll's houses.
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This 3,000 3000this 3000
square foot L.A. home features multiple storage containers in its design – each with its own purpose. There’s a storage container for the entertainment area, library, dining room/office space, master bedroom, and bathroom/laundry room. This place has plenty of large windows which provide plenty of natural lighting as well as awesome views of the garden and koi pond outside. Aside from using recycled storage containers, this home also uses recycled steel scraps in its construction which further adds to the green vibe that this home resonates – not to mention saved a ton of money on construction costs
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These modern kit homes, (above), designed by Rocio Romero, embrace principles of simplicity, quality, environment, and space. By creating deeper wall and roof cavities, and using rigid and tapered insulation, higher energy efficiency is achieved. The roofs have double the thermal resistance of conventional homes. And flexible window configurations maximize natural lighting and ventilation. Each LV series model is highly customizable; many past models feature solar electric systems, radiant heating, and swamp coolers. There are 6 available models, with base prices ranging from $20,570 to $46,050. For more information and model floor plans, visit rocioromero.com.
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
Just to expand, soul_rage, the employer-sponsored worker scheme is only one of the types of visas available, and it's really not the best way to go because it puts you in a Catch-22 situation where employers aren't going to hire you unless you have work rights, and you can't get work rights unless someone hires you.
There's also skilled migration, where residency is granted based upon what applicants bring to the table in terms of skills. It works on a points-based system, with more points being attached to skills that address shortfalls in the Australian workforce. The threshold to be crossed is revised regularly in order to cut off applicants at the immigration quota set for the year (which was 190,300 the last time I checked). The advantage of this system is that it resolves the Catch-22 and also helps ensure that the right balance of skills is found in the Australian workforce.
Hi Gedanken
Thanks for the clarification.
I remembered they only accept 3 kinds of people who wish to apply for a work visa now
- Critical Skills programme (where there is a small list of professions that is glaringly in shortage in Australia)
- Employer-sponsored programme (the one you said)
- State-sponsored programme
All 3 requires the applicant to pass the points test, regardless.(Correct me if I am wrong)
That's what I remember, there is no special treatment for any category. Of coz, I only know about the skilled migration programme (which consists of the 3 above). There are other programmes, like the investment programme, etc., which I do not know coz I don't have that much $$$ to invest in Australia
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Originally posted by eagle:
Hitman, I can only tell you this... soul_rage has indeed left for USA for a very very very very prestigious job...
The success he has achieved for himself in society is very much respectable. It was not through inheritance or marriage, but through his talent and hard work...
He might sound arrogant to you, but from what I know about him so far, I would say he's already being very humble... Serious...
Working hard and making plans are never wrong. God doesn't plan your path for you; he gives you the choices to different paths, and it's up to you which path you want to take.
Indeed, you have no intention to be serious here. There's nothing wrong with that. But I do find the insights by Lionoasis and soul_rage refreshing. I would appreciate if there are less disruptions ;)
wow... I didnt know there is such a locution that people are humble in being arrogant
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Originally posted by seyKai:
wow... I didnt know there is such a locution that people are humble in being arrogant
What I meant was, arrogance is a state of mind.
What you see as arrogance might not necessary be in other's eyes.
e.g. A multi-billionaire telling you that he owns only a Maserati might seem like arrogance to you, but to his circle of friends who might have private yachts and jets as well, he's already being humble.
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Originally posted by Chew Bakar:
Opps... I think I accidentally displayed 'arrogance' in my previous post
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
Thanks for clarifying, but I'm still having trouble seeing how that gels with this other statement that you made:
Could you please clarify how I'm meant to reconcile the two points, which seem to be diametrically opposed to each other?
racial discrimination exists everywhere, in Australia, used to be against the lebanese, recently against the indians, that is arrogance plus difference in cultural and language, this can happen anywhere, nothing to do with immigration policies, in HK, the chinese against the indian, called ah char, many of them have been in HK for years, speak cantonese.
The Brits immigrants in australia will have little or no difference in culture and language, so relative to the asians and eastern europeans, it is easy for the oz to handle the Brits, isn't it? one arrogant australian will not make a brits feel discriminated, but an asian who don't understand the same language would.
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Talk about pommies.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
Just to add in more info, immigration policies in Australia are tightening. Where, you could apply for a work visa independently, now you can only apply given the following conditions:(1) When there is an Australia company that has hired you and will sponsor your visa
(2) When there is a state in Australia who will sponsor your visa
Getting (1) or (2) is very difficult since the company or state MUST justify why they need foreigners. Therefore, its becoming harder to immigrate to Australia.
Singapore is very much different. We are opening the tidegates and let the foreigners flood the market until even the locals die.
It doesn't hurt me, coz the so-called foreign-talents in Singapore cannot do my job. But this flooding has affected many of our fellow Singaporans whose jobs can be worked on by the foreigners, who are willing to accept lower pay and longer working hours.
As I mentioned, sgdiehard knows nothing, and yet wants to comment on Singaporeans, then Americans, Canadians, Australians.
PS: Stevenson101, thanks for the insight on the gaming industry. It's pretty interesting to know what is going on over there. Are there any govt grants given to companies to train locals, or the companies are just continously hiring foreigners?
Currently i know that the government pays half the salary of any local LucaArts employees, whether Ubisoft is receiving the same grants i have no idea.Right now for Ubisoft they are eagerly looking for locals to fill in the slots so they could raise their quotas of foreigners. But since Lucas was here first they have been having a hard time filling in those slots.
Unfortunately what constitutes as local is questionable because apparently it includes both Singaporeans and PR, so it's not really rare to have a Singaporean based company to have only at best 10-20% Singaporeans.
As i have mentioned before, this is a relatively new industry so it's very difficult to have Singaporeans who have relevant working experiences. But i will acknowledge that the government has done its part in encouraging people to pick up the relevant courses through SPUR and MDA sponsorships.
The big companies didn't come here because Singaporeans are particularly creative or even hardworking but for our IP laws and liberal immigrant policies. It's a good center strategically to recruit from the talents in Indonesia, China and Malaysia.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
Don't get me wrong, I don't support the way our government let in foreigners. but I won't fight with the FW such as maids, construction workers,...they are doing jobs that singaporeans don't want to do, and they are really contributing to the standard of living here.
The problem is the expats who are allowed in freely. they are the "FT" who are provided with housing here and their children go to international schools at company's expense. Are they really doing the jobs that Singaporean can't do?
but the acceptance of immigrants and the government's immigration policies are quite separate issues.
33% of population of Perth are from countries other than the UK, america or local australia. It does not appear that the people resent the arrival of foreigners from other parts of the world, notably India and China. In vancouver, the whole suburb looks like part of HK, in a mall called Aberdeen, a fun raising event was held to help the China earthquake victims, only cantonese and mandarin were spoken on stage. I was amazed, but my canadian colleagues really don't bother. It was interesting to find that the punjabi community was actually petitioning the government to let in more of their own people.
I am not sure if the local australian, canadian would change their attitude if more immigrants were allowed.
but the real question is, if you leave singapore and go to a new place, how would you like the locals to treat you? surely you don't want them to vent their dissatisfaction with their government on you.
I fail to see what point you're driving here. You need to elaborate more at what you're driving at.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:one arrogant australian will not make a brits feel discriminated, but an asian who don't understand the same language would.
OK, let me see if I got this right.
An arrogant Australian may discriminate against a British immigrant, but the British immigrant won't feel discriminated against because he understands the same language.
On the other hand, the same arrogant Australian may also discriminate against an Asian immigrant, and the Asian immigrant would feel discriminated against because he doesn't understand the same language.
Have I missed anything? If I haven't, that's an argument in favour of the common exhortation to "learn the f***ing language before you come here", wouldn't it?
In any case, it seems that the crux of your argument is that discrimination is in the eye of the beholder, and by extension, that the solution lies not in reducing discrimination, but in reducing the perception of discrimination.
Of course, none of this adds up, so help me out here.
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
Currently i know that the government pays half the salary of any local LucaArts employees, whether Ubisoft is receiving the same grants i have no idea.Right now for Ubisoft they are eagerly looking for locals to fill in the slots so they could raise their quotas of foreigners. But since Lucas was here first they have been having a hard time filling in those slots.
Unfortunately what constitutes as local is questionable because apparently it includes both Singaporeans and PR, so it's not really rare to have a Singaporean based company to have only at best 10-20% Singaporeans.
As i have mentioned before, this is a relatively new industry so it's very difficult to have Singaporeans who have relevant working experiences. But i will acknowledge that the government has done its part in encouraging people to pick up the relevant courses through SPUR and MDA sponsorships.
The big companies didn't come here because Singaporeans are particularly creative or even hardworking but for our IP laws and liberal immigrant policies. It's a good center strategically to recruit from the talents in Indonesia, China and Malaysia.
Thanks for sharing.
Ok, so the govt is trying to do something for the locals, but their definition of locals encompasses PRs as well, which probably end up with more foreigners taking up the jobs as "locals" as well.
Has the govt come up with a grant that will enable the company to consider sending you to their overseas HQ for a stint at the gaming lab so as to bring you up to speed? I think this would be very useful, rather than subsidising the salary only.
Anyway, I know Linden Labs is setting up shop in Singapore, and my friend is hiring people. I hope this bodes well for Singaporeans in the long run through generation of jobs that will go to the locals.
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
OK, let me see if I got this right.
An arrogant Australian may discriminate against a British immigrant, but the British immigrant won't feel discriminated against because he understands the same language.
On the other hand, the same arrogant Australian may also discriminate against an Asian immigrant, and the Asian immigrant would feel discriminated against because he doesn't understand the same language.
Have I missed anything? If I haven't, that's an argument in favour of the common exhortation to "learn the f***ing language before you come here", wouldn't it?
In any case, it seems that the crux of your argument is that discrimination is in the eye of the beholder, and by extension, that the solution lies not in reducing discrimination, but in reducing the perception of discrimination.
Of course, none of this adds up, so help me out here.
