going Australia after NS, i have a feeling its going to be gud x3
australia is only good if u go there for 1 year holiday or go setup your own company.be prepared to see that there is no ISO system or any audit systems in place at all companies.....everything there is mislabeled,misplaced,misinformed,mistakened and misunderstood.
the hong kongers ,japanese,germans etc have immigrated there and have found oz not exactly nice and in systematic order.to me oz is pure torture
Originally posted by Gedanken:OK, let me see if I got this right.
An arrogant Australian may discriminate against a British immigrant, but the British immigrant won't feel discriminated against because he understands the same language.
On the other hand, the same arrogant Australian may also discriminate against an Asian immigrant, and the Asian immigrant would feel discriminated against because he doesn't understand the same language.
Have I missed anything? If I haven't, that's an argument in favour of the common exhortation to "learn the f***ing language before you come here", wouldn't it?
In any case, it seems that the crux of your argument is that discrimination is in the eye of the beholder, and by extension, that the solution lies not in reducing discrimination, but in reducing the perception of discrimination.
Of course, none of this adds up, so help me out here.
Put it another way,
In singapore, some locals complain about immigrants, of all races, for taking singaporean jobs, about everything and anything, although these immigrants speak english, e.g. the philippinos, the indians, and culturally similar, e.g. the chinese.
In australia, my understanding is, the locals don't complain about immigrants, some locals dislike those who don't speak english, different culturally or racially, and these are more likely than not, immigrants. these locals don't dislike all immigrants, e.g. the immigrants from the UK and the US.
Correct me if my understanding is wrong.
and if my understanding is not wrong, australia, like the US and Canada, grant PR to parents of these immigrants, and they may be chinese, indians, italian....and their parents may not speake english!! this is NOT in line with the common exhortation, is it?
my argument is this, We should not treat the immigrants in Singapore in one way and expect to be treated differently when we become immigrants in other countries.
to sg die hard,
oz only allocate 100 old parents every year out of !00,000 immigrants!which is only a fraction of a %.vwey little chance of parents immigrating unless the immigrants plan a out of the box way!
Originally posted by Stevenson101:I fail to see what point you're driving here. You need to elaborate more at what you're driving at.
my point is, while we are very much against our government for their immigration policies, singaporean should be more magniminus in accommodating the new immigrants. They didn't choose our government, we do. They have no say in what the government do, we have (if it is ineffective, that is because the timing is wrong, wait for election, and more people have to agree).
Originally posted by HITMAN11111111111:to sg die hard,
oz only allocate 100 old parents every year out of !00,000 immigrants!which is only a fraction of a %.vwey little chance of parents immigrating unless the immigrants plan a out of the box way!
It is the perogative of the australian government and for those who want to immigrate to do their planning, I don't have issue with that.
but oz is still a good place to eat and sleep.....not a safe place to werk as from oz statistics..it says 3 people are seriously injured every hour in oz werkplaces.)crippled,maimed and hopitalised.)
Originally posted by HITMAN11111111111:but oz is still a good place to eat and sleep.....not a safe place to werk as from oz statistics..it says 3 people are seriously injured every hour in oz werkplaces.)crippled,maimed and hopitalised.)
then go there to eat and sleep. don't read too much into statistics, go there and find out for yourselves, my company's affiliates there is not like that.
but 99% of immigrants are unable to have their parents with them as PR.low priority on aussie gov.those applied for parents pr whether its white or black all got rejected mostly.u may be a medical doctor and still yer parents cant come n be a p.r.......you need to get your parents into oz befor you think of immigrating,,,,,,,,its a bit like the rubik cube puzzle.
really?????sgdie hard.....maybe u could have yer friends get me a job.......
im already in oz
maybe your friends are not in the technical line.................the technical line in oz is like watching a horror movie.thinkin of not wanting to watch horror movie every day of the week.
Originally posted by HITMAN11111111111:maybe your friends are not in the technical line.................the technical line in oz is like watching a horror movie.thinkin of not wanting to watch horror movie every day of the week.
no, I am not in technical line, our affiliates there is a full sales offices, but products come from Asia.
i thought you are in housing business.
Originally posted by HITMAN11111111111:really?????sgdie hard.....maybe u could have yer friends get me a job.......
hehehe...not sure he will keep his job, economy still recovering, if it is recovering.
ok then....not into sales n not housing...i only build them in spare time if law here allows
Originally posted by HITMAN11111111111:ok then....not into sales n not housing...i only build them in spare time if law here allows
ya...in oz you need to be handy man, nice to build your own house, in singapore, if you dont have enough, have to buy lego. but why law not allowed?
Originally posted by sgdiehard:
Put it another way,In singapore, some locals complain about immigrants, of all races, for taking singaporean jobs, about everything and anything, although these immigrants speak english, e.g. the philippinos, the indians, and culturally similar, e.g. the chinese.
In australia, my understanding is, the locals don't complain about immigrants, some locals dislike those who don't speak english, different culturally or racially, and these are more likely than not, immigrants. these locals don't dislike all immigrants, e.g. the immigrants from the UK and the US.
Correct me if my understanding is wrong.
and if my understanding is not wrong, australia, like the US and Canada, grant PR to parents of these immigrants, and they may be chinese, indians, italian....and their parents may not speake english!! this is NOT in line with the common exhortation, is it?
my argument is this, We should not treat the immigrants in Singapore in one way and expect to be treated differently when we become immigrants in other countries.
I think what we have here is a whole lot of things mashed together that really do need to be unpacked.
If you said that many non-English speakers in Australia are alienated, I certainly wouldn't disagree. However, I'd be circumspect about extrapolating this to the extent that this alienation necessarily means that Australians dislike non-English speakers. Just because someone can't communicate with you doesn't mean he dislikes you, does it?
If someone simply can't communicate with you and you assume that he doesn't like you, I'd suggest that paranoia, rather linguistic limitations, is the problem that you need to address. As such, my bringing up the common exhortation was simply rhetorical.
I'd agree with your final point - people do need consistency in the way they treat others and how they expect to be treated. Expecting to receive more than one gives is simply childish.
Originally posted by HITMAN11111111111:australia is only good if u go there for 1 year holiday or go setup your own company.be prepared to see that there is no ISO system or any audit systems in place at all companies.....everything there is mislabeled,misplaced,misinformed,mistakened and misunderstood.
the hong kongers ,japanese,germans etc have immigrated there and have found oz not exactly nice and in systematic order.to me oz is pure torture
So you're saying that you need an ISO system to spoonfeed you and tell you step-by-step how to do your job? No wonder you're such an incompetent loser.
Nobody's keeping you in Australia, so your whinging while sitting on your fat ass simplymakes you even more of a loser. It certainly would be no loss if you left - you'd just be one less burden for the people around you to carry.
Originally posted by sgdiehard:
Put it another way,In singapore, some locals complain about immigrants, of all races, for taking singaporean jobs, about everything and anything, although these immigrants speak english, e.g. the philippinos, the indians, and culturally similar, e.g. the chinese.
In australia, my understanding is, the locals don't complain about immigrants, some locals dislike those who don't speak english, different culturally or racially, and these are more likely than not, immigrants. these locals don't dislike all immigrants, e.g. the immigrants from the UK and the US.
Correct me if my understanding is wrong.
and if my understanding is not wrong, australia, like the US and Canada, grant PR to parents of these immigrants, and they may be chinese, indians, italian....and their parents may not speake english!! this is NOT in line with the common exhortation, is it?
my argument is this, We should not treat the immigrants in Singapore in one way and expect to be treated differently when we become immigrants in other countries.
As Gendaken has said that your argument is a bag of mished-mashed issues - which I see as putting everything you can possibly think of into one bowl to squeeze some nonsensical logic out of the soup.
Are you being objective in any way with your comparison of Singaporeans who complain about those taking away their jobs, with those Singaporeans who had the opportunity to migrate to anywhere and expect equal treatment ?
Can those Singaporeans - who stay behind to compete with the foreigners - be comparable with those who has the ability to migrate ?
How do you compare the English speaking Filippinos and Indians with the Culturally similar Chinese - and expect Singaporeans to like anyone of them who compete with the Singaporeans that could not afford to migrate ?
Are English speaking Filippinos and Indians comparable to the English speaking Chinese, Malays, or the Eurasians - let alone the Singaporean ethnic Indians ?
How do the Mainland China Chinese compare culturally with Singaporeans - who are of Malay, Indian and Eurasian ethnicity ?
Is there any logic with your argument in comparing the tight space of a cosmopolitan City State with the wide expanse of a sub-continent such as Australia, which is selectively choosing the ethinicity of the hopeful migrants that flocked to their shores ?
The Australian Government has a more open policy in accepting new migrants, even as it is cautiously selective in approving the type of migrants that they wish to have that will fit into their image of a society that they wish to develop, and for the new migrants to also be a productive contributor to their Society.
Does the Singapore Government have such a policy to protect the Singaporean workers - when in the recently held NUS Forum, MM LKY had derided the minimum wage policy asked by a student, who had the interest of the Singaporean labor in his question ?
While the Australian Government could have opened their doors to low wage migrants to build a low wage industry to compete with China, India and the Third World Countries, to the credit of the Australian Government it did not succumb to this approach but preferred a high standard for its own citizens.
Shame on the Singapore Government who lost its vision of building a Singapore with similary High Standards of Living as the Swiss.
Originally posted by soul_rage:Thanks for sharing.
Ok, so the govt is trying to do something for the locals, but their definition of locals encompasses PRs as well, which probably end up with more foreigners taking up the jobs as "locals" as well.
Has the govt come up with a grant that will enable the company to consider sending you to their overseas HQ for a stint at the gaming lab so as to bring you up to speed? I think this would be very useful, rather than subsidising the salary only.
Anyway, I know Linden Labs is setting up shop in Singapore, and my friend is hiring people. I hope this bodes well for Singaporeans in the long run through generation of jobs that will go to the locals.
Yea, MDA and EDB have set up a few transfer programs to Japan/UK's Double Negative/America's MIT.
Ultimately it has to depend on the Singaporeans themselves. I have to say that the government has done well on this part but whether Singaporeans are willing to learn and make progress is up to them.
Still, the immigrant policy leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
Originally posted by Atobe:
As Gendaken has said that your argument is a bag of mished-mashed issues - which I see as putting everything you can possibly think of into one bowl to squeeze some nonsensical logic out of the soup.Are you being objective in any way with your comparison of Singaporeans who complain about those taking away their jobs, with those Singaporeans who had the opportunity to migrate to anywhere and expect equal treatment ?
Can those Singaporeans - who stay behind to compete with the foreigners - be comparable with those who has the ability to migrate ?
How do you compare the English speaking Filippinos and Indians with the Culturally similar Chinese - and expect Singaporeans to like anyone of them who compete with the Singaporeans that could not afford to migrate ?
Are English speaking Filippinos and Indians comparable to the English speaking Chinese, Malays, or the Eurasians - let alone the Singaporean ethnic Indians ?
How do the Mainland China Chinese compare culturally with Singaporeans - who are of Malay, Indian and Eurasian ethnicity ?
Is there any logic with your argument in comparing the tight space of a cosmopolitan City State with the wide expanse of a sub-continent such as Australia, which is selectively choosing the ethinicity of the hopeful migrants that flocked to their shores ?
The Australian Government has a more open policy in accepting new migrants, even as it is cautiously selective in approving the type of migrants that they wish to have that will fit into their image of a society that they wish to develop, and for the new migrants to also be a productive contributor to their Society.
Does the Singapore Government have such a policy to protect the Singaporean workers - when in the recently held NUS Forum, MM LKY had derided the minimum wage policy asked by a student, who had the interest of the Singaporean labor in his question ?
While the Australian Government could have opened their doors to low wage migrants to build a low wage industry to compete with China, India and the Third World Countries, to the credit of the Australian Government it did not succumb to this approach but preferred a high standard for its own citizens.
Shame on the Singapore Government who lost its vision of building a Singapore with similary High Standards of Living as the Swiss.
I stated my position on the singapore government immigration policy on my reply to stevenson, I therefore won't go into discussion with you on what the respective government do in australia and singapore.
Originally posted by Gedanken:I think what we have here is a whole lot of things mashed together that really do need to be unpacked.
If you said that many non-English speakers in Australia are alienated, I certainly wouldn't disagree. However, I'd be circumspect about extrapolating this to the extent that this alienation necessarily means that Australians dislike non-English speakers. Just because someone can't communicate with you doesn't mean he dislikes you, does it?
If someone simply can't communicate with you and you assume that he doesn't like you, I'd suggest that paranoia, rather linguistic limitations, is the problem that you need to address. As such, my bringing up the common exhortation was simply rhetorical.
I'd agree with your final point - people do need consistency in the way they treat others and how they expect to be treated. Expecting to receive more than one gives is simply childish.
I don't know enough australians to make any generalization, and non of my statement was intended that way.
I also don't think ALL singaporean have problems with immigrants, and that doesn't mean they agree with the government's policy.
gd day.
Originally posted by sgdiehard:I stated my position on the singapore government immigration policy on my reply to stevenson, I therefore won't go into discussion with you on what the respective government do in australia and singapore.
Even if you prefer not to discuss the respective different immigration policy espoused by the Governments of Singapore and Australia - the facts remain that you have no cause - in the manner shown in your previous post - to lump the Singaporeans who do not migrate and have cause to complain about encroaching foreign migrants, with those Singaporeans who have the opportunity to migrate and faced resentment from the host countries.
Singaporeans that complain about encroaching foreigners competing for the local opportunities are a different 'kettle of fish', and their gripes cannot possibly be compared to those Singaporean migrants whose gripes are about the resentful reception that they received from the residents of the intended host countries.
Can those Singaporeans who migrate be considered "economic migrants" - as one will see the foreigners who arrive into Singapore ?
Originally posted by Atobe:
Even if you prefer not to discuss the respective different immigration policy espoused by the Governments of Singapore and Australia - the facts remain that you have no cause - in the manner shown in your previous post - to lump the Singaporeans who do not migrate and have cause to complain about encroaching foreign migrants, with those Singaporeans who have the opportunity to migrate and faced resentment from the host countries.Singaporeans that complain about encroaching foreigners competing for the local opportunities are a different 'kettle of fish', and their gripes cannot possibly be compared to those Singaporean migrants whose gripes are about the resentful reception that they received from the residents of the intended host countries.
Can those Singaporeans who migrate be considered "economic migrants" - as one will see the foreigners who arrive into Singapore ?
I don't see all the foreigners in singapore "economic migrants", many look for a better place for their children education and upbringing, many prefer the stability of this place, especially religious and racial harmony, as compared to where they come from, many like the english speaking asian lifestyle, many want a westernized asian society...Singapore is actually a damn small place, why do anybody want to come here?
why do people migrate to australia? it is equally for many reasons, not just seeking political asylum.
even if there are those who are "economic migrants", they are here doing the jobs that many singaporean won't do, and when their contracts end, most will not be allowed to settle here.
to gendakan,
dont worry about me not conributing to oz.i have decided not to give and render them any help whatsoever anyway as most aussies are sitting on their asses all the time while most of the jobs are being done by vietnamese,koreans,brazilians and other asians.im a p.r. here and also have my own company.i will move away from australia and singapore as i find them unworthy of my technology and skills they badly need in the future.
what they need are more abusive gendakans like you yelling and screaming like you were badly abused.it tells alot from the way you write ,think and your ability to be human,from way you write,,,u seem like you are filled with anger and frustration kinda outlook.
you may yell , scream and be very abusive like a mad man.....it only tells the state you are in.thats why ive decided oz might not be that good.ive still other plans besides oz.