Singapore At War
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There is a flaw not mention in the the test. Most of the hits are at the frontal armour of the tank and we all know that the thickest armour is always the front. Furthermore is hit was incurred on the gun barrel or sighting equipment, it would render the tank to be a non-combatant. -
Dunno if you guys know, some NVGs are equipment with an IR torch that will only be visible to NVGs. It actually brightens up the whole area when you are in thick undergrowth. It virtually like an invisible torch. But the setback is that with the enemy is equipped with NVGs, they can see our "torch" too.Originally posted by jagkoh:// That is very true.
Though they are very uncomfortable to wear, They would be a edge again the opponents. However, the junke vegetation in SEA would reduce the NVG effectiveness. From all the camera shots take with the NVG shown on TV shows in a South American jungle, it seems to be so, and they have to add a bit of extra light to allow the person to be seen. However this could be 1st generation technology. Presently US is using third generation now.
Also for the operation in Afghanistan, it taken placed on a very open terrain, so the stars' light would be enough to allow their NVG to work.
But it was mounted on the US test pilot helmet and it enable him to see the other jet plane rather than the blinkers without. Helicopter pilots are mostly train with night flying using NVG all over the world but fighters are few. And the planes so far that has integation for this feature are F-16, F-18 to my limited knowledge and there are others too I believe.
Also I had the fortune to see the cockpit camera shot of a F-117 in the mist of tracer fire when it was flying through Baghdad during Desert Storm. It surrounded by tracers. And it had not suffered any serious damage. Amazing.
I have see the camera footage of a French carrier jet plane trying to land on the French carrier. It has only three dots of lights to guide it in and he has to aim a small hollow ball on his screen to the centre dot of light on the carrier. Amazing flying. Relying on just dots to land a jet plane on a platform with a width not much bigger than the plane.
Since it's in the papers, you guys should know that the Portable Thermal Imager (much like the one in the MetalGear Solid game) is used pretty much by recon troopers in the SAF. It works slightly different and it's so ultra sensitive that it can "see" shadows of troop 50m deep in the vegetation.(average density)
It can see through smoke and dust and it won't blind you if there's flash. It can be use day and night too. Of course there are setbacks. Too bulky and eats batt alot. Last heard all this is feebacked to DSTA for improvement. -
I think you need to know about some latest development in anti-tank arty....Originally posted by jagkoh:Yup it is, using arty fire to hit a tank is like trying to hit an infantryman with an unguided bomb from 10000 ft. While a direct hit from a normal arty round would surely take out ANY tank, its hitting the tank's thats the problem. While modern ballistics computers have reduced the CEP of an arty barrage quite significantly, its still a inefficent and risky way of taking out tanks. I think there are guided arty rounds in development or in service somewhere, but I've not seen it.
// The technique of calling arty fire to destroy a tank is an obselete one. Its is relavent during the days when the tanks are slower during the days of 1980s.(Combat and Survival)
In this age of faster tanks, missiles that home-in the laser beam emitted is used now. The SAS and Delta Forces used this system to destroy stationary targets(Scuds launchers and depots) in Iraq during the Gulf War at ranges up to 1000m. I believe that this technique is applicable to tanks too as the missiles adjusts is path as it flies or glides to the target.
Or with GPS and laser range finder, arty can be called to saturate the area with bomblets. This is used by mainly US and Western cointries.
About reactive armour.
I went to a lecture on explosive and poyrotechnics, the lecturer said that the reactive armour are able to dull the explosive power of a shaped charge but is not very effective against the SABOT rounds. Also there is a development to make the most power explosive. Its nitrogen-** composite. And he said there was a scientist successful with it and he blow the whole lab up with 5g of that stuff. And according to him, this new stuff its so powerful, not armour in the world at present is able to stop it.
the latest developement of anti-tank arty is a SP arty known as panzerfaust 2000.
it fires a shell that is known as the ICM... or improved conventional munition. inside thise shell.... contains numerous bomblets... each carries a millimeter wave sensor.... which will home the bomblets onto the enemy tanks....
The new ICM and SP arty combined was rated so powerful by janes... it literray could spell the end of tanks in the future... as it was reported that a column of tanks numbering 25 to 50 could be wipe out by a few ICM rounds in under 15 seconds..
The SAF already have SP arty.... the Singapore technologies is also one of the few companies in the world that has the ability to produce ICM...
Unfortunately,, the local ICM carrys HEDP bomblets which though effective against certain armor vehicles... dont possess a millimeter wave radar to home the bomblet onto the tanks.....
But... obviously... i would say that the developement of such a bomblet isnt really that far off for ST.
for more information of ST ICM bomblet visit its web page http://www.stengg.com/land/downloads/la_155CR.pdf -
The British developed a 81mm mortar round capable of acquire lock on during terminal dive using millimeter wave seeker, and guide the round to its target. I think the Swedish (Bofor) has developed an AT round for the 120mm mortar round but using IIR seeker instead. I thought I read somewhere that ST was experiementing some kind of AT round for 155mm guns. Don't know how true or the status.Originally posted by Viper52:No idea abt the miliimeter wave round, but I would bet its got to do with the Longbow Apaches millimeter-wave radar.
BTW, I read from the "Defending the Lion CIty" (phew, finally got the book from Popular Bookshop), that SAF was looking at acquiring MLRS at some point but dropped the idea. I also read somewhere (don't remember the source - could well have been Strait Times) that Singapore is testing some locally made rockets (for some locally made multiple rockets launcher) in South Africa. Of course, I haven't got any source to back this up. I don't remeber where I read this. It has been a while.
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Well...If I am not wrong..almost all NVG / Thermal equipment consumes battery like nothing biz.Originally posted by Silenthunter:Since it's in the papers, you guys should know that the Portable Thermal Imager (much like the one in the MetalGear Solid game) is used pretty much by recon troopers in the SAF. It works slightly different and it's so ultra sensitive that it can "see" shadows of troop 50m deep in the vegetation.(average density)
It can see through smoke and dust and it won't blind you if there's flash. It can be use day and night too. Of course there are setbacks. Too bulky and eats batt alot. Last heard all this is feebacked to DSTA for improvement.
The weight of lugging around extra batteries really can't be helped, until somebody comes out with a super efficient battery that is ultra lightweight.
But the benifits they rendered, is worth the tradeoff. It will really change the whole ballgame if all combat personnel is equipped with it. <dreaming> -
Smile.... Take the contents of the book with a pinch of salt, there are some errors in the book. I will be very worried if they got all their information right.Originally posted by Joe Black:BTW, I read from the "Defending the Lion CIty" (phew, finally got the book from Popular Bookshop), that SAF was looking at acquiring MLRS at some point but dropped the idea. I also read somewhere (don't remember the source - could well have been Strait Times) that Singapore is testing some locally made rockets (for some locally made multiple rockets launcher) in South Africa. Of course, I haven't got any source to back this up. I don't remeber where I read this. It has been a while.
But he done quite an good job of gathering tiny bits and pieces, into a piece of interesting reading. -
NVGs are fine with the batt consumtion, can be considered reasonable. But if anyone has ever seen the TI designed by ST, you would consider it a joke by modern military technology standard. I reckon they are trying to fit every feature they can into a TV box! *exaggerating*Originally posted by wombat:Well...If I am not wrong..almost all NVG / Thermal equipment consumes battery like nothing biz.
The weight of lugging around extra batteries really can't be helped, until somebody comes out with a super efficient battery that is ultra lightweight.
But the benifits they rendered, is worth the tradeoff. It will really change the whole ballgame if all combat personnel is equipped with it. <dreaming>
Anyway, i heard the bergen used by the Royal Marines could stop the thermal signature of an individual, but no sure abt that. Perhaps all that can be done in the near future to counter against that. But seriously, with the war nowadays being concentrated on missiles and guns, how far on the area of R&D can the army go in terms of personal equipment? -
Wonder if anyone realise that STAero has just been awarded the contract for Dassult Systems upgrade, does that swing the whole thing towards Rafale?Originally posted by Joe Black:Initially, I was also a Typhoon fan (given that they can carry 4 AMRAAM semi-recessed) and Rafale can carry only 2. However, after reading about Rafale performance (29 degree per second roll rate - more than the 20+ degree achieved by the Vipers), its superior radar and IRST, the capability of Rafale to carry NATO missiles if needed and the capabilities of the Mica missiles, I think Rafale has a fighting chance to win.
Dassault pointed out that Rafale is second to the Raptors in terms of Stealtiness. Typhoon has a bit of catching up. Rafale also supports full integration of HMS. Typhoon avaionics suite has a bit of work left to be at least on par with Rafale...
Last but not least, given recent Mindef "closeness" with the French since the LaFayette saga, I think the French will definitely entice Mindef to go with them.
Just my 2 cents anyway... will have to wait and see...
Is Gripen ever in contention at all? -
In case you haven't heard. Under the Army21 doctrine, all combat personel are to be equipment with a mini NVG. It only takes time to equipment of SAF.Originally posted by wombat:Well...If I am not wrong..almost all NVG / Thermal equipment consumes battery like nothing biz.
The weight of lugging around extra batteries really can't be helped, until somebody comes out with a super efficient battery that is ultra lightweight.
But the benifits they rendered, is worth the tradeoff. It will really change the whole ballgame if all combat personnel is equipped with it. <dreaming>
The mini NVG (called the "Mini-N.See" in SAF), currently being used by most Infantry/guards and Recon troopers is so small nd light it fits your pocket. it's size's like 2 3310 HP sitck together. It has a IR "torch" and has optional detachable 3x bino. It uses 1 AA size battery and can last as long as your CD-Player. Pretty good I would say. The only thing is that it's single scope so it's more dificult to judge depth compared with twin lens/scope NVGs. But for a standard issue in ARMY21.....not bad liao loh.
Thing to note: this NVG is not something new, it's being in SAF for years. -
Just wondering, if its possible to wire up the Spike to be fired from Apaches or Vipers?
Btw, a couple days back, PM said something about terrorist plot to crash a jet into Changi Airport. Apparently, it was rumored that RSAF fighters had to be sent to escort a particular jet down. Just the thought of a crash in Changi Airport, is horrifying already. But people actually willing to kill others at the expense of their own lives..... -
Hello Eyezer
I believe you are Malaysian, and probably from an Intelligence or Armed Forces background. Perhaps you can enlighten us Singaporeans how you dealt with terrorists?
I believe your security forces once wiped out all inhabitants on a Filipino island used as a base for their terrorists/Pirates?
That's why there were no more problems from the Sulu terrorists for more than 10 years till the Sipadan incident? Can tell us more?
thanks... -
Originally posted by Eyezer:
Yup, there was an article in BT sometime ago during Asian Aerospace, was actually written byu someone I know. Apparently the Dassault people I spoke to is using this as an additional carrot to prompt countries in th region to buy Rafale, the presence of depot level maintenance facilities in the region.
Wonder if anyone realise that STAero has just been awarded the contract for Dassult Systems upgrade, does that swing the whole thing towards Rafale?
Is Gripen ever in contention at all?
[/B]
Does this swing the Singapore contract towards Rafale? Yes, I would say it definitely does. An additional plus is that sicne the maintenance is carried out in-country, it would mean that we can carry out maintenance on our own "tailored" aircraft without it being subject to foreign eyes during maintenance.
Just a thought -
Originally posted by Shotgun:
IAI has actually test fitted Spike derivatives to Russian Hinds. Its called the NT-S or NT-D missile I believe. So fitting to Apaches is not a problem
[B]Just wondering, if its possible to wire up the Spike to be fired from Apaches or Vipers?
B] -
Y don't i say you are a M'sian and you tell me more? I believe Nationality has nothing to do with the discussions that were raised throughout in this forum.Originally posted by towncouncil:Hello Eyezer
I believe you are Malaysian, and probably from an Intelligence or Armed Forces background. Perhaps you can enlighten us Singaporeans how you dealt with terrorists?
I believe your security forces once wiped out all inhabitants on a Filipino island used as a base for their terrorists/Pirates?
That's why there were no more problems from the Sulu terrorists for more than 10 years till the Sipadan incident? Can tell us more?
thanks...
Since you have some knowledgement on the Sulu terrorists and Sipadan incidents, maybe you could enlighten us on that? -
My apologies to Eyezer.
I think I had confused you with that Malaysian chap called Eye.
Velly Sorry... -
About the incident I wanted Eye to comment on:
In 1985, a group of armed Filippino pirates/terrorists raided the town of Lahad Datu or Sempona in Sabah. The Malaysian security forces manage to respond by pursuing them back into an island in Philippine waters. Rumour has it that the Malaysians shot everyone one that island, pirates, wives, children. The bodies were dumped into the sea. Only bits of skulls which were shot off were recovered. The Phippine govt lodged a protest but no evidence of a massacre were found....
Piracy in that place stopped for more than 10 years after this massive response.
I have tried to obtain more details of this incident but to no avail. I was wandering if EYE could fill me in, considering that he is au fait with the history of the Malaysian security forces.... -
Our northern neighbours have finally pen down the contract for the 3 subs they long boasted 'wanting to have'...and insisting that it's not a competition, it's just part of the modernisation program.
Heard they are being offered the MIG-29M2 for additional fighters as well. But with which config? Would they be conned like the last batch of MIG-29s as well? Hope they read the terms and clauses carefully this time..... -
I, for one, hope they don'tOriginally posted by Eyezer:Hope they read the terms and clauses carefully this time..... -
I read about their arm's purchase's too. It's confirmed this time, no longer rumours.
Singapore shouldn't worry too much about the tanks & MIG 29's but it's the subs that we should worry about. Since Singapore only got their 4 sub's recently and our still beginner's in sub warefare. S'pore still has the advantage of learning earlier than them. I imagine they will take a few years to train sub crew's even if they start today.
Is anyone familiar with the sub's we have & the one's they are planning to get? A comparison of the 2 navies would be great.
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"Is it me or the sword you want?"~Jen Yu
CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON -
India, Malaysia Seek Stealthy Subs
Reports indicate both India and Malaysia are in discussions with the Naval Ship Building Directorate of France for Scorpene-class submarines. The Scorpene is jointly built by DCN of France and Izar of Spain at a unit cost of approximately $320 million each. India reportedly wants six of these subs. Malaysia, meanwhile, is said had narrowed its choice to several Scorpenes or German U212/214s.
The diesel-electric Scorpene employs a high level of both active and passive stealth technology. The sub has an albacore bow shape, with fewer appendages and an optimized propeller design. Between the suspended decks, the equipment is mounted on elastic mountings wherever possible, and the noisiest systems have a double-elastic mounting to reduce the their noise profiles. The low acoustic signature and hydrodynamic shock resistance give the Scorpene class the added capability of working with special forces in coastal waters. The boats are typically fitted with SAGEM optronic search and attack periscopes. Its combat system blends acoustic and non-acoustic sensor data for detection, tracking, localization and identification of targets; determines the tactical situation; provides tactical analysis; and targets weapons.
[This message has been edited by wombat (edited 12 April 2002).] -
i heard that there are SOSUS system in the entire singapore water..... if that is true... wont employing subs against singapore a pretty stupid an idea?Originally posted by wombat:India, Malaysia Seek Stealthy Subs
Reports indicate both India and Malaysia are in discussions with the Naval Ship Building Directorate of France for Scorpene-class submarines. The Scorpene is jointly built by DCN of France and Izar of Spain at a unit cost of approximately $320 million each. India reportedly wants six of these subs. Malaysia, meanwhile, is said had narrowed its choice to several Scorpenes or German U212/214s.
The diesel-electric Scorpene employs a high level of both active and passive stealth technology. The sub has an albacore bow shape, with fewer appendages and an optimized propeller design. Between the suspended decks, the equipment is mounted on elastic mountings wherever possible, and the noisiest systems have a double-elastic mounting to reduce the their noise profiles. The low acoustic signature and hydrodynamic shock resistance give the Scorpene class the added capability of working with special forces in coastal waters. The boats are typically fitted with SAGEM optronic search and attack periscopes. Its combat system blends acoustic and non-acoustic sensor data for detection, tracking, localization and identification of targets; determines the tactical situation; provides tactical analysis; and targets weapons.
[This message has been edited by wombat (edited 12 April 2002).] -
SOSUS around Singapore waters????? Sure anot??
After lookin at M'sia's choice of submarines, I wonder how they are gonna pay for them. Those are pretty new diesel boats, both the scorpene and U212. Somehow, i think that might have surfed on to www.naval-technology.com and picked all the diesel subs on the page to consider. Heh.
Btw, Trip, the Stengg page didn say anything about the rounds havin millimeter wave seeker. -
becos it dont have millimeter wave seeker.... i am just saying that since ST have DP ICM munitions... it should not be too far off an idea that they might start trying to put the millimeter wave seeker on it....Originally posted by Shotgun:SOSUS around Singapore waters????? Sure anot??
** well, that wat i read.... true or not... god knows. but the book say something like... there is SOSUS around singapore but.. the SOSUS is not under singapore control..... ( get the picture ??)
After lookin at M'sia's choice of submarines, I wonder how they are gonna pay for them. Those are pretty new diesel boats, both the scorpene and U212. Somehow, i think that might have surfed on to www.naval-technology.com and picked all the diesel subs on the page to consider. Heh.
Btw, Trip, the Stengg page didn say anything about the rounds havin millimeter wave seeker.
BUT.... ST might not put it on either... cos... the millimeter wave seeker, though impressive in several demonstrations in last 10 years.... was used most effective when against tanks in open ground....
with so many trees and jungles in SEA... i wonder how effective is a millimeter wave seeker against tankers hidden below the jungle canopy....
So... might as well use area saturation bombardment..... cheaper too. and even if the bomblet didnt manage to get the tanks... it should be more then devastating against the poor infantry around the tanks.... then we will see how the tanks stand on its own... heeheheeee....
[This message has been edited by tripwire (edited 13 April 2002).] -
here's what i read from www.defense-aerospace.com
the malaysian's have confirmed they bought:
-Steyr assault rifles, manufactured in malaysia under liceanse from austria
-signed an MOU for technology transfer from a norway company to make varous ammo for their military
-mobile military bridges from UK & france
-US$316 million to buy Jernas short range missile system to form a new regiment
-US$48 million to buy IGLA air defense system from russia
items still under discussions are:
-60 to 64 tanks from poland
-3 subs from france
-Su 30 fighter planes from russia
the malaysian defense minister said the orders from europe & russia are to be delivered within 3 years.
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"Is it me or the sword you want?"~Jen Yu
CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON -
Think you missed a few....
1) upgrade the Command and Control System on board the Laksamana class Corvettes  KD Laksamana HANG NADIM and KD Laksamana TUN ABDUL JAMIL. The contract is valued in the region of 15 M USD
2) signed a long-term agreement covering co-operation on production of 25 mm ammunition for the new Malaysian Armoured Combat Vehichle, ACV 300.
Anybody got some idea wat this ACV 300 is about?