Singapore At War
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As much I will like to, I hadn't been able to find instances of countries who went to war for fun yet.Originally posted by tripwire:secondly, nations can goes to war for reasons that borders the realm of insanity if not outright heresy to outsiders but perfectly alright for those in the war irreguardless whether there is economic basis for such a war. -
with respect to brain drain, it is a fact of reality, the reality that singapore being so small in size, could not match USA or canada in terms of opportunity and prospect.Originally posted by Illegal Operation:Singaporeans are indeed a snoobish lot. The way many of our people behaves the moment we stepped on foreign land makes one wonder what we had gained from years of courtesy campaigns. Ask around. Tour operators can spot Singaporeans miles away.
Talents goes to where they can find good opportunity and prospect, they goes where their talents are appreciated and recognized. to that end, singapore still has some distance to go.
BUT it is good to see that, despite our minute size, few countries with the exception of a few super power first world nation like USA and canada can be used as a mirror of our lackings.
so we may not get the best talents in the world becos either we lack the size, opportunity, prospectus, facility or infrastucture. we ARE getting the best talents within the level of our technological ability.
occasionally, some singaporeans prove themselves to be higher in talents than singapore can provide opportunity for, and so they left.
some left becos the bureacratic system in singapore which tends to look down on talents with high qualification and skill by insisting on the value of age old 'experience', the case of the dead log blocking the young aspiring talents.
Our society also have a problem with change, many older workers in management post are reluctant to learn the latest skill and technology and stick to old methodology and retards the country's move to go up the technology ladder.
they fear that changing the system and methods would render their 'experience' worthless or devalue it to the level of new graduates. so they use their power and snub the aspiring talents from revealing their talents.
Such things i believe occurs both in public and private organisation as some talents lamented that they will be put in a straight jacket desk and ask to simply work like an ordinary staff and get their pay. that is not what a talent want.
BUT it is doubtful that this system will change any sooner, even if PM, SM or DPM keep urging for the change, it falls on deaf years of the senior 'experience' workers out of fear of losing their job, recognition or standings among their peers.
the question is how to assuage these 'experience' workers fear so that they will allow the younger talents to move up the ladder quickly and benefit everyone.
the problem is complex, but it generally boils down to lack of trainning opportunity in certain field, lack of standard test accreditation test and lack of recognition of talents and experience workers likewise.
SNOBBISH singaporeans?? sure there are some, but all of them??? surely that cannot be. did u saw a black sheep and simply decided to declare every singaporean as black??
or was it a case of stereotyping by the media who keeps lambasting the negativity image of singaporeans that leads to your assumption that singaporean are snobbish in wat ever they do from going to toilet and the very greetings they give??
was the snobbish attitude a matter of your presumption or believe, or was it a fact??
Is it a case of the succesful being snobbish or was it a case of the poor percieving the successful as snobbish?? -
not for FUN. but out of ridiculous ideas like race, religion, culture, ideology, beliefs, fear and emotional hate or simply out of politic, some wars are started out of ancestral hate, lingering war memories of the past, lost of pride, lost of dignity or simply out of self belief that they are the divine chosen ones.Originally posted by Illegal Operation:As much I will like to, I hadn't been able to find instances of countries who went to war for fun yet.
Money dont always figure in a war. believing that others will not attack us as there is nothing to gain from a destroyed singapore is a grave lacking in the understanding of human nature. -
Let me start off with an Intro about myself.
I'm 26, Singaporean, NSman, Arty Office, a Banker based in London, my Fiancée is a lovely Malaysian beauty, and this is my first time reading through this forum... with much amusement.
Singapore at warÂ… will tension in our region ever amount to the shedding of blood between sister nations?
Will Singapore fallÂ… are we as strong as we arrogantly insist we are in our military endeavour?
These two issues have been recycled in this forum again and againÂ…. and I feel that my two pence .. eerm.. two cents worth could shed light on whatÂ’s going on behind the scenes.
Let me start off with the question of Singapore being 100% defensible. There have been a lot of speculation about the technology we have in our armed forces. I have been fortunate enough to be given a tour of the facilities which are at our disposal, and I can give you first hand assurance that we are technologically no less superior in our defence system than the USA. Published figures of our defence spending are very much way off the hoof, for political reasons of course, and unless our neighbours decides to drop one on us without a prior 48hrs warning, or should we be caught napping in our regional surveillance, my bet is that we can hold any advances from both ends of the compass simultaneously without breaking so much of a 2.4km sweat. Speaking of surveillance, did I mention that unlike the USA, we have the advantage of proximity which allows us to get the same job done effectively, WITHOUT the need for a Lockheed EP3.
MinDef’s policy on our assets procurement, as most high level military men would know, is very simple. Singapore will invest in aspiring technology rendered from across the pacific, and hence as stakeholders, we will always have a share of the yummiest creampuffs. Take our Apaches for instant. While our Straits Times dutifully announces that we are testing a few contractors in our decision to make our purchase of the latest in anti-tank defence, the RSAF have been flying the longbows, test firing hellfire missiles, for half a decade earlier. Why? Because a certain GLC has strategic interest in Boeing corp. Same can be said for our Submarines and the rest of those stuffs in our underground bunker network (or is there such a network??). Singapore is so damn rich it can buy itself into everything and anything it deems worth the while. The MBTs in Taiwan, Australia, the Longbows, Singaporean pilots stepping out of F14s and F15s sporting American insignias (makes you wonder why Singapore needs offensive fighters for), “hunter”, “boxer” and our links with country X and Y have long been “open secrets”. Dummies like us get on online discussion forums divulging all these information to the world… but hey, this is also the reason why our neighbours “appreciate the situation” better in the sense that they know better than to stick their fingers into this skunk’s arse.
But just for argument’s sake, Singapore IS ALWAYS ahead of its neighbours. For every threat, there IS a counter measure… and the skilled personnel to operate it….. and unlike our neighbours, we have the financial resources to back ourselves up. Cut our water and food supply, yar right .. Singapore has had 100% 180 days self containment capabilities for the last 10 years running. It sure is going to cost us hell of a lot of cash to get it going, but in times of war, who gives a shit. The regional players have recently decided to dabble into SRSSM and while we don’t have any of our own (or do we??), we do have a fully functional missile defence shield up and running (which the USA would be proud of)since the day I ORD. The regional players can keep chalking up the bill on their arsenal but they would be financially drained even before we’ll feel the pinch. Whatever we laymen can conjure up, the top brasses in the MinDef are some 5 steps ahead of us. Just to make you think a little, our defence system does not only comprise of our military hardware. Singapore has adopted a “Total Defence” approach. Everything, from the directional layout and design of our HDB estates and highways, to our MRT lines have been all planned as part of our “keep them out” strategy. Keep a look out for these minor details and to any trained military man, it would simply appear all too clear.
My conclusion, with the arrogant spirit of a patriot, Singapore is 100% defendableÂ….. trice over.
However, the greatest asset in our defence system is NOT the multi-billion dollars worth of armoured tanks like the Centurions, M60s, AMX 10p, yada yada yada Â…. but the cream of the crop in our government think tank, that which is much more formidable. The Singaporean government has made a brilliant effort in playing the neutral diplomatic peacemaker with our immediate neighbours. By allowing families to mushroom both sides of the causeway, and shooting off PR status to the brightest and most brilliant of Malaysian, Singapore has inevitable made the Malaysian government think twice about ruffling its own feathers before lifting its hands to strike. Singapore has also invested heavily into the Malaysian domestic economy so much so that itÂ’s their national interest to maintain a cordial working relationship with us. It is in MalaysiaÂ’s interest to take us in the hands and work as partners, not rivals. We read about scuffles in the national tabloids now and then, but are these issues really important? SingaporeÂ’s policy on issues raised by the Malaysian Media has been very simpleÂ…. either ignore them, or word in whatÂ’s seemingly an apology and let the Malaysian politicians have a field day with their electorate. Singapore has subtly supported the ruling coalition party because it knows that the present government, albeit a little noisy (Dr. MÂ’s my heroÂ… bless that old fox), is essential the balance of power within the nations in the region, and within the multiracial community on both sides.
As for our friends to the South, Singapore has time and again extended economical and humanitarian help to the extent that they, as a Muslim community, would know better than to bite back at the hand that feeds them. Political leaders have always been known to say things in front of their people to incite support, but behind the scenes, it is the unwritten rule amongst world leaders that these snippets should just be ignored and taken with a pinch of salt.
Thus concludes my thesis that no one has a reason to attack Singapore, hence, there exist no threat of war. So why invest so damn much money in a defence system? Well, for all itÂ’s worth, SingaporeÂ’s wealth is built on the fact that our foreign partners know that we have the capabilities of protecting their investments and in a cyclical manner, we turn part of their profit into the systems which maintains the peace on our land.
End of the day, I would like to see this forum being turned into something more productive, with aggression and anger channelled into gentlemanly patriotism. Singapore at PEACE.
Peace, Love
The Rainmaker -
good post rainmaker!
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Do I have to choose one of your 2 choices? To convince myself that Singaporeans are indeed successful enough to warrent being a snob. Or do I have to brand anyone else who felt that Singaporeans are a snobbish lot as poor and jealous people?Originally posted by tripwire:Is it a case of the succesful being snobbish or was it a case of the poor percieving the successful as snobbish?? -
NO.... all you have to do is forget what i said and what all the media and everyone one said about singaporean being snobbish.Originally posted by Illegal Operation:Do I have to choose one of your 2 choices? To convince myself that Singaporeans are indeed successful enough to warrent being a snob. Or do I have to brand anyone else who felt that Singaporeans are a snobbish lot as poor and jealous people?
just take off those stereotype perception in your heart, remove those color lenses and see the singaporeans each and everyone by his true color. use your mind and not your heart when u judge.
dont take others view, you are mature enough to give your own view. your view need not go along or against the general view. just be sure that it is YOUR view.
dont just follow the mindless zombies in declaring SINGAPOREANs as snobbish. but to recognise that within the general population of SINGAPOREANs, there are a wide range of personalities from holitistic to devilish. -
If I toss a rock at a crowd, chances are high that I will hit one who think he is a cut above the rest.
And chances are even higher that he wouldn't admit it but put the blame on the person who perceived him as such. Sound familiar?
If possible, I too wish that I wouldn't be stereotyped when I am away from home. But it takes more than solo effect to change perception of us. Snobbishness is a national trait. -
national trait??? may god have mercy on your soul. hahaaaaOriginally posted by Illegal Operation:If I toss a rock at a crowd, chances are high that I will hit one who think he is a cut above the rest.
And chances are even higher that he wouldn't admit it but put the blame on the person who perceived him as such. Sound familiar?
If possible, I too wish that I wouldn't be stereotyped when I am away from home. But it takes more than solo effect to change perception of us. Snobbishness is a national trait.
there was this story about GOD going to destroy a city full of sin. and abraham ask GOD if GOD would still destory the city if there is a few good man left in the city?? GOD replied NO.
so abraham ask GOD again, if there were only 3 good man in the whole city, will GOD destroy the city. and GOD replied NO.
so abraham asked again. what if that city has only ONE and only ONE good man, will GOD destroy the city.
GOD replied......... NO.
BUT we understand that being human, you probably wouldnt understand that each man is measured by his own character and worth. rather then the worth of all those measured together around him.
IT is not possible for me to ask you to rise above perception, stereotype and sweeping remarks. but we forgive u.
AND if being snobbish is the only sin that you can say about us, then i think we should be quite happy. at least we dont go around hacking people's head off like in certain part of indonesia OR see people's worth according to the color of their skin like malaysia rather than their ability.
WE are not perfect, but thankfully and hopefully we will not be as ..... as our neighbours. -
Seems like a deviation on the topic of war. Well, maybe we should start a forum on Singaporean snobbery. To be totally honest with you, Singaporean do think that they are a cut above the rest, and rightly so. IÂ’ve lived in many countries, in Europe, the USA, Australia, Japan, Hong Kong and IÂ’ve been up and down Malaysia many a times as my future in-laws reside there. One thing I must say, is that Singapore is by far, the cleanest, safest, most efficient, highest standards of living, highest quality of life (other than the months where we have to tolerate the smog from across the straits), compared to the rest of these places IÂ’ve resided in. Even my expatriate friends and those who have travelled to Singapore mentions without hesitation that Singapore is a gem in its own class. We are a proud people and thatÂ’s whatÂ’s driven us ahead of our counterparts. Pride to excel, pride to be the best, pride to reclaim the honour of being the no.1 airport, no.1 seaport, no.1 workforce, no.1 highest Asian literacy, no.1 choice in foreign investment. But Singaporeans snobbish? ItÂ’s the upbringing of the kid which decides if he is snobbish or not. If the child is snobbish, itÂ’s not the nationÂ’s success that determined it.
Having pride in what we have, what we do, what we have achieved, what we can achieve, is not snobbishness. I don’t tear down my Fiancée’s home country and say that Malaysia is lousy, filthy and smelly. Neither do I criticise Indonesia on their inability to control a rouge community. Nor do I spit on the British government on their indecisiveness to take control of their public transport, banking regulation and Euro policies. I don’t tell the Americans that they are on the edge of becoming Global Enemy No.1 with their stupid foreign policies. Nor do I tell the Japanese to get their economy into shape, or the Australians to stop being lazy asses and get their act together. Instead, I learn, and I encourage others to learn from their mistakes and I appreciate what Singapore has become and what Singapore is. You can’t accuse anyone of being brained washed into thinking the Singapore is the best by slogans and PAP campaigns. We are a free nation. The people of Singapore have the right to travel, to live abroad, to study foreign culture. We are an elite nation in our own ways, just like the Americans, the British, and the French are, and we can hold our head high and say that we are special in our own way. The rest of our neighbours have yet to achieve our status as a “developed nation”, but believe me, they are also proud of what they have achieved. Snobbery only comes when we fail to accept that we can be beaten at our own game. Snobbery only comes when we shut our senses to the world, being myopic to our mistakes and those of the mighty and power before us. The choice of wanting to be snobbish is your own. We are not a nation of snobs. We are a nation of Proud People.
The Rainmaker -
Seems like a deviation on the topic of war. Well, maybe we should start a forum on Singaporean snobbery. To be totally honest with you, Singaporean do think that they are a cut above the rest, and rightly so. IÂ’ve lived in many countries, in Europe, the USA, Australia, Japan, Hong Kong and IÂ’ve been up and down Malaysia many a times as my future in-laws reside there. One thing I must say, is that Singapore is by far, the cleanest, safest, most efficient, highest standards of living, highest quality of life (other than the months where we have to tolerate the smog from across the straits), compared to the rest of these places IÂ’ve resided in. Even my expatriate friends and those who have travelled to Singapore mentions without hesitation that Singapore is a gem in its own class. We are a proud people and thatÂ’s whatÂ’s driven us ahead of our counterparts. Pride to excel, pride to be the best, pride to reclaim the honour of being the no.1 airport, no.1 seaport, no.1 workforce, no.1 highest Asian literacy, no.1 choice in foreign investment. But Singaporeans snobbish? ItÂ’s the upbringing of the kid which decides if he is snobbish or not. If the child is snobbish, itÂ’s not the nationÂ’s success that determined it.
Having pride in what we have, what we do, what we have achieved, what we can achieve, is not snobbishness. I don’t tear down my Fiancée’s home country and say that Malaysia is lousy, filthy and smelly. Neither do I criticise Indonesia on their inability to control a rouge community. Nor do I spit on the British government on their indecisiveness to take control of their public transport, banking regulation and Euro policies. I don’t tell the Americans that they are on the edge of becoming Global Enemy No.1 with their stupid foreign policies. Nor do I tell the Japanese to get their economy into shape, or the Australians to stop being lazy asses and get their act together. Instead, I learn, and I encourage others to learn from their mistakes and I appreciate what Singapore has become and what Singapore is. You can’t accuse anyone of being brained washed into thinking the Singapore is the best by slogans and PAP campaigns. We are a free nation. The people of Singapore have the right to travel, to live abroad, to study foreign culture. We are an elite nation in our own ways, just like the Americans, the British, and the French are, and we can hold our head high and say that we are special in our own way. The rest of our neighbours have yet to achieve our status as a “developed nation”, but believe me, they are also proud of what they have achieved. Snobbery only comes when we fail to accept that we can be beaten at our own game. Snobbery only comes when we shut our senses to the world, being myopic to our mistakes and those of the mighty and power before us. The choice of wanting to be snobbish is your own. We are not a nation of snobs. We are a nation of Proud People.
The Rainmaker -
May god forgive my soul. AmenOriginally posted by tripwire:IT is not possible for me to ask you to rise above perception, stereotype and sweeping remarks. but we forgive u.
[This message has been edited by Illegal Operation (edited 10 May 2001).] -
Did anyone here read SM's From Third World to First? You'll realise that he started off the first chapter on National Service. The emphasis that he and the rest of the SG government place on national defence is very clear - We must have a capable defence strategy. Our forefathers have gone through the 2nd world war, the Confrontation with Indonesia and political posturing from across the causeway in 1965. My father is already 62. He tells me that he totally believe that we should have our own defence force. I think if I'm in my father's shoes and have experienced what he went thru' in the 40s and 60s, I totally believe that we should have a credible defence force.
Regarding the statement that since Singapore has no natural resources, there is no incentive for anyone to invade Singapore, history has a BIG lesson to teach us. If we follow the logic of that argument, there is no reason why the Japs invaded us in 1945 (But, they did) There is no reason why Iraq will want to invade a small country like Kuwait, after all, Iraq has got lots of oil as well and they have a sea lane open. What Kuwait did NOT have, however, was a defence force. In fact, it would be correct to say that if we were ever invaded, the US has little incentive to send a force to help us. We have nothing to offer in kind. They did not for Kosovo, either. But, they did for Kuwait in exchange for oil from Kuwait.
In the past, a certain prominent BG realised that there was something wrong with our SAF doctrine. Previously, the SAF build a defence force for self-defence and a deterence only. It meant that in a war, we put up a resistance but will still lose a war. That meant Singapore have to surrender or fight and still lose. Either way, it was sucide. This BG decided to change our doctrine. Yes, we have limited resources and manpower, but, technology and well-trained soldiers can be used as a force multiplier. That's why we have all these superior weapons and we have regular In Camp Training (My 8th In Camp Training is coming in October, and, Believe it or not, I'm actually looking forward to it because I will see all my old friends. We sweat thru' it together, but I won't trade the male-bonding experience for anything else.)
One day, if you are free, go down to URA office and look at the land plan they did for Singapore. You'll marvel at the amount of thinking that went into the land planning exercise. Obstacles were purpose-built to contain enemies landing on our shores. Special structures that were built to serve dual purposes. Amazing. Can't tell you what they are, sorry. Although some in this forum has already divulge too much info.
Why did the government go to such lengths?
If there is war, we have to defend our home, because no one else will. -
you are very right Bolts!Thing is that lots of people in this forum are more interested in whether spore is defendable,whether we would turn up for activation.There will always be different views and opinions on this matter.But it is interesting the amount of people who say negative stuff about spore's defense.i just wonder exactly how patroitic or ignorant they are.i mean if you are like still schooling and have not entered the army,thats understandable,but if the person writing the stuff is an old soldier,working adult,then its so sad.every guy who has ever done NS,reservist will know that no matter how siong or screwed up it seems,we are a part of the wheel that is spinning.i believe that our army,like everything else in spore ,will work when needed.
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Many don't see the big picture because when they go back for In Camp Training, they form only a small part of a defence capability. The Sum of the Parts is greater than the parts themselves, taken as a whole. If they doubt that Singapore will lose a war, that's okay, National Education lectures which is on-going right now will change that perception over time.
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Altrex:
1.if our neighbours cut off our water, what will we do? i dunno. will we fight for it? i have no idea. though i was once told by a retired full colonel that LKY once said very strong words with regards to this issue to the Malaysian CDF. no doubt, we can easily seize the water plants and hold them, but is it the correct thing to do? i really have no idea.
2.if we end up fighting, trade suffers. we lose, they lose too. we might lose more, i admit.
3.sea-lanes. my speciality. dun worry too much, all i will say here is losing control of the sea-lanes is one of S'pore's biggest concerns. of course MINDEF has plans to keep the sea-lanes open. at the moment, i doubt that we will really lose control. after 2009 when the frigates become fully operational, it becomes more improbable.
4.air-space. the service i'm most proud of is the airforce. while i'm not in it, i know that of all the 3 services, the airforce is the one really world-class. it'll take more than a few MIG-29s which can't fly to control our air-space.
A salute for you man!
1. Yo sure we can capture the water plant? even if we can seize it, will we be able to hold it? our soldiers are in Malaysian grounds, Malaysian troops everywhere. Singapore troops may get embushed or surely outnumbered.Well, i think seizing the water plant is the right thing to do. I'm sure Singapore won't go and declare war with Malaysia. Since they started it, we will do whatever we can to bring them down. Em.... yo work in SAF?
2.I agree that both sides would lose out and MAYBE we will lose out more. But we are going to recover thrice as fast as them.
3. Oh, yo in the RSN rite? that cool. All i noe is that RSN operates small fleet with firepower of a large fleet of frigates and vessels. Well, i went to the Changi open house and got a spectacular view of our vessels. The most impressive of all is the Missile Corvettes and Endurance class LST. The inside tour is undescrible. I trully hope that the frigates would be fully operational as soon as possible. I think tha the 6 frigates incorporates stealth features. rite?
4.High5! RSAF 4eva best. I'm sooooo proud of our Air Force. More fighters than neighbouring countries with high-technology. Even if RMAF operates MIG29 and F/A18D, that little amount of them won't be even enough to defend the vast air space of Malaysia. I'm sure they will become strong one day, but the RSAF will always be on-top of them by at least 1 level. BTW, Singapore shown keen interest in the Eurofighter2000, thats cool! With the big fleet of BVR capability, WOW!
4. -
If ever singapore and malaysai were to come to blows. the motto for SAF will be swift and deadly. objective will be simply the complete occupation of all malaysian territory especially the key cities and major industrial towns.
fuck the forest, we will send malarie, dengue and nipah mosquitoes against those 'hang tuahs' gorillas.
FORGET east malaysia, we will simply 'persuade' them to declare independence and we will be remembered as their liberators.
later, we will promote peace in malaysia through the hiring of locals as 'law enforcers' and encourage the kumpong lifestyle by tearing down all the industries, factories, offices, telephone lines, highways and bridges. most importantly, we will burn down all their schools and books to ensure that people no longer become intoxicated by the evil temptation of misguided knowledge and power.
everyone shall go to the mosque and learn the quran, anyone who failed the quran test will be given the head chop. the quran will be the only knowledge permitted, science and mathematics will be banned. english will be outlawed.
the islamic law shall be forcefully enforced without question, any resistance will be dealt with swiftly and without question.
everyone must pray 20 times a day.
by 2020 , malaysia would be the first nation to reach nirvana. ALLAH IS GREAT. mahatir's vision has......come true?? -
[QUOTE]Originally posted by hardware:
[B]Could anybody enlighten me on the following issues?
This is my opinion, considering cost-efffectivness factors. very same from tripwire.
AIM-120C will be stored outside Singapore unless there is a war threat. Malaysia however have AA-12ADDER/R-77 (it is similar to AIM-120C but have a range of 90-100km. 50km more than the AIM-120C. It have speed of mach 4) stored in their airbase. RSAF should be lookin into or buying other AMRAAMs (eg. BVRAAM, MICA, SKYFLASH, METEOR, IRIS-T, Alto/Derby) to store here. I'm sure these missiles are as capable as the AIM-120C. What is the point of having 100 AIM-120C and we can't use them in the first line of defend.
*Dun worry, our python4 and AIM7 Sparrow is enough. The RMAF MIG29 mainly have to depend on close air combat to get a victory. Before they can lock RSAF F16C with IR homing missiles, our F16C had already been locking on it.
RSAF had been looking for replacement for the F-5s. Does anyone have a more detailed comparison for these fighters. EF-2000, Rafale, JSF, JAS39 Gripen and SU-37.
*To me, the best option is the EF2000 Typhoon. Why? Cos its cost effective, being able to replace both the A4SU and F5S at the same time. Its attack capability and air-to-air capability is good. Its easy and cheap to maintain, does not need constant maintanence. Another BVR capable fighter.
Recenlty there is a Un-comfirmed report of Singpaore buying Exocet MM-39s for the frigates amount to US 700m. I'm not sure if there is MM-39 or should it be MM-40. If MM-39 is a new product, any idea of it's performance compared to Harpoon.
* Where did you hear this from, i certainly hope this is not true...... You mean on the new stealth frigates? Exocets are medium range missiles, not better than the Harpoon with a range of 90 km.
Malaysia recently bought several G-5 155mm from Denel. G-5 is rated one of the best in the world and have a indirect fire range of 39kms. How many piece are they buying? Where are they located?
*Little idea of this. Can't answer your question.
Malaysians are also buying anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles fm Pakistan. Any info. on this?
*Nope. sorry...... -
[QUOTE]Originally posted by m113apc:
[B]wow,3 mths have passed since i last visited and so much interesting stuff in the forum!
for someone who surfs everyday to check out bits and pieces of what military hardware singapore has,and thinks that he knows what spore has,this has really been a surprise.
i am not goin to add my list of what we have,but i was surprised in todays straits times that Spore Tech has just unveiled a new wheeled AFv in idex2001!
anyone out there has any idea do we have any in Armour?
if its in the papers,we can be pretty sure that its not a secret anymore.
so ,anyone have any info?
Hi m113apc! i'm the one coming everyday... Yesh! i bought the IDEx2001 and seen the picture of the 8*8 IFV. it has the turret of the Bionix25 and a wheeled chassis like the LAVs. Wonder if US will start buying from us. AND, you seen the LWH, its cool! this 2 product seemed to be produced for the US. Light, air-deployable and powerful. don't you agree? -
Hi all! All those SAF personnel out there, wanna ask you guys a question. does we really operate the Centurion and the M60. To me, its unbelievable. someone said that those soldiers taking part in Ex Wallaby get to see the Centurion, but from the Army News, i only see picture of SM1 and Bionix and Ultras. M60? i think those belonged to Taiwan which take part in the exercise together with the SAF rite? Tell me more, i certainly hope/don't hope that the SAF operates the M60 or Centurion.
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M60...I dunno but The centurions, Yes. It's not a secret already and I believe our neighbors knew it already. Janes speculated early on that there were 60+ Centurions in our orbat but later reports confirm 20+ of such tanks. So the actual number I dunno (maybe magazines got put liao)
These tanks in Taiwan. It is not known if there are any in SG but the probability is very low.
I think M60s are confused to be ours but they are actually taiwan's. I got some friend pose pictures with the M60 in Taiwan training.
Or maybe their talking about the M60 CEV that our armoured engineers used. These M60 are modified to do combat engineer work like mine-ploughing, obstacle removal and etc....or the M60 AVLS that lays the engineer's bridge. These M60s are not for combat.
Been to Wallaby 99 and 2K, see no centurions or M60......only some dead boars and alot of kangaroos. All local tanks/APC. So that's probably a lie.
SAF did evaluate a number of light tanks a few years back..including the scorpion and the US Stingray light tank. But the results are unknown. I heard from someone that we are developing a light tank consisting or a foreign-made turret with the Bionix chassics but I think it's probably made up!
[This message has been edited by Silenthunter (edited 28 May 2001).] -
As far as I know,¡K we definitely have centurion tank!!! Kekeke still remember that, the last time I got to know abt this tank was from one of the amour officer¡K for what I know¡K. Only that particular batch (I really don¡¦t know which batch of amour intake) know how to operate them¡K and as for their re- service, the whole batch will travel to ROC¡K as for whether sg currently having those tank ¡K¡K. My ans is YES¡K if im not wrong¡K. All of its were kept at seletar camp (maybe wrong spellingOriginally posted by Patriotic Tim:Hi all! All those SAF personnel out there, wanna ask you guys a question. does we really operate the Centurion and the M60. To me, its unbelievable. someone said that those soldiers taking part in Ex Wallaby get to see the Centurion, but from the Army News, i only see picture of SM1 and Bionix and Ultras. M60? i think those belonged to Taiwan which take part in the exercise together with the SAF rite? Tell me more, i certainly hope/don't hope that the SAF operates the M60 or Centurion.
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actually.... i got one more question.... still remember that few yrs ago.... we were being a supoort unit for the 42 armour... all the tanks was lanch from the LST out at sea... at that time..My officer was telling us that¡K those tanks was the latest and was highly classified¡K. And it also happen that one of my close friend was from 42SAR¡K and he told me that¡K. They are the only batch that learn how to opertae on this particular tank¡K till now¡K I still don¡¦t get to know what sort of tank it was¡K. So, anyone wanna leak some info to me???
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If you bleed more in peace,
You will bleed less in war,
Coz the only easy day was yesterday.... -
I am a new user here and have been looking at this forum for some time.
From what I know, in 1975 singapore bought 63 mk3 and mk7 centurions from india.This was later supplemented by a couple more from isreal in 1994, bringing the total force to more than 90. Thes centurions were upgraded to isreali'sdefence force standard with new engines guns etc. These upgraded centurions were known as Tempest in the SAF. -
Tempest? I tot everyone in armor refer them as "big brother"?
As for NDU's "secret tank"...they are actually the AMX-10 IFVs in 42. So it's no big deal. -
In 1997 mindef announced that they are preparing plans to build a 105 mm light tank.
Could anybody brief me on this?
About the tempest, i got the info from a book called defending the lion city by tim huxley so i am not so sure if its name is true or not.