need your help! esp those who have completed NS
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i have not served NS yet and am thinking of going overseas to study. the problem is that some people tell me once you're over 15 and not yet served NS you're not allowed to go overseas to study, is this true? and also lets say if i'm lucky enough to go, my parents will have to pay a bond and is there any way to escape NS without having my parents get a fine? i mean hey its a good 2 freakin years of my life, i could be halfway through a university degree course or make a lot of money in 2 years instead of going for NS and getting paid less than a bangla labourer. i heard of this guy who gave up his citizenship to avoid NS and is now practising law in the UK..forgot his name but they said he was some sort of a political dissident. is this possible?
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If u want to go overseas and study before serving your 2 year term in NS, you'll have to pay a bond. Min fee is SGD$75k unless your parents's combine income per annum is more then that !
The only way you can go ahead and study 1st without paying any bond is to become a doctor !
What i would suggest is, serve at least one year 1st. Then tell your unit, be it SAF,SCDF or SPF that you want to go for your studies then come back and serve your remainding term.. better that way ! -
U are so degrading on NS.Originally posted by vito_corleone:i have not served NS yet and am thinking of going overseas to study. the problem is that some people tell me once you're over 15 and not yet served NS you're not allowed to go overseas to study, is this true? and also lets say if i'm lucky enough to go, my parents will have to pay a bond and is there any way to escape NS without having my parents get a fine? i mean hey its a good 2 freakin years of my life, i could be halfway through a university degree course or make a lot of money in 2 years instead of going for NS and getting paid less than a bangla labourer. i heard of this guy who gave up his citizenship to avoid NS and is now practising law in the UK..forgot his name but they said he was some sort of a political dissident. is this possible?
And seriously, if you are thinking of an outlet to escape NS, sorry, dun approach us. Why be a Singaporean in the first place when you feel so sorry about serving NS? At least, dun make NS sound degrading, comparing it to a bangla labourer....
At least you are a high-end, better-paid and more qualified bangla worker
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I agree with you abt we shouldnt degrade NS ! It's good mate ! Thought me alot of things and made me a better person ! But I think the bangla's earn more then NSFs...Originally posted by deathscythe99:U are so degrading on NS.
And seriously, if you are thinking of an outlet to escape NS, sorry, dun approach us. Why be a Singaporean in the first place when you feel so sorry about serving NS? At least, dun make NS sound degrading, comparing it to a bangla labourer....
At least you are a high-end, better-paid and more qualified bangla worker -
That would depend on which bangla u referring to, and which NSF rank you referring toOriginally posted by ben1406:I agree with you abt we shouldnt degrade NS ! It's good mate ! Thought me alot of things and made me a better person ! But I think the bangla's earn more then NSFs...
But overall, NS is more than just the pay. It's a learning experience. On the job, first hand experience. Geez. And to hear this from a person who has yet to smell the doors of NS, it's totally disgusting. Not to mention that it's a wonder what has happened to the younger dudes nowadays.[/u] -
Yeah.They do get overtime pay you know...
Anyway, you can enlist, then defer for studies abroad after having served 1 year in NS.If you want to make the best out your NS life, i.e to have a closely matched working environment as in the commercial world, you would need to be a clerk.Only people with medical conditions which prevent them from serving in combat vocations can become service personnel.Do go for a medical checkup, think of it this way, being a clerk , at least you can tell yourself its one year of work experience gained.If you are unlucky enough to end up in a combat vocation, take it as leadership or life experience gained.Me personally, I was like you, wanting to give up my citizenship to siam NS, but NS is not worthy of you giving up your citizenship.There are things I've learnt, especially interpersonal skills and handling diffcult people from all walks of life.Serve and take the money, then do what you want with your life after that.It's your own right. -
Ns is a good expereince if u ask me cause u know why?...by the time u get out from NS, u have more neuro transmitters in r brain which enable u to think,talk and work better...Life might be hard inside but t also depends on what unit/vocation u get.....Basically NS is a good training ground for a scenario where u are put at extreme vulnerability, that u have not much control of yourself....Imagine NS is like POW camp some say...U are always afraid of someone catching u for something, getting extras ect........of cos there are some who have negative expereinces in NS which might affect their life...eg. iknow of someone who after Ns had a psychological scar , suffering from paranoia and had a negative outlook in life....But after he went for counselling, he was fine
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NS is good...You should overcome your fear and goes for it. SO what if the pay is low and it is 2 years..It will be a training period to train u to be a better person to survive in this society! Don't ever compare NSmen to bangla. We are different.NSmen takes up rifles,artilleries,tanks,pistol and fire fighting equipments...bangla take chankol,broom,hi pressure water jet and drilling machines. Each have their parts and roles to play. Even the bangla who is making contributions to our homeland with very little pay didn't complain, what else for you, who is a true singaporean,wants to complain? Love your land and country.Running away is not the solution to the problem. Since u can run away from NS,how can anyone else expect u to be someone successful next time? Dun tell me u r gonna run away from the problems u facing when u at work?NO WAY MAN.Originally posted by vito_corleone:i have not served NS yet and am thinking of going overseas to study. the problem is that some people tell me once you're over 15 and not yet served NS you're not allowed to go overseas to study, is this true? and also lets say if i'm lucky enough to go, my parents will have to pay a bond and is there any way to escape NS without having my parents get a fine? i mean hey its a good 2 freakin years of my life, i could be halfway through a university degree course or make a lot of money in 2 years instead of going for NS and getting paid less than a bangla labourer. i heard of this guy who gave up his citizenship to avoid NS and is now practising law in the UK..forgot his name but they said he was some sort of a political dissident. is this possible?
WAKE UP, MY FRIEND -
dun tink can leave... no... diedie must pay bond... unless u escape to malaysia then run from there... y so scared of the 2yr? very fast one la...Originally posted by vito_corleone:i have not served NS yet and am thinking of going overseas to study. the problem is that some people tell me once you're over 15 and not yet served NS you're not allowed to go overseas to study, is this true? and also lets say if i'm lucky enough to go, my parents will have to pay a bond and is there any way to escape NS without having my parents get a fine? i mean hey its a good 2 freakin years of my life, i could be halfway through a university degree course or make a lot of money in 2 years instead of going for NS and getting paid less than a bangla labourer. i heard of this guy who gave up his citizenship to avoid NS and is now practising law in the UK..forgot his name but they said he was some sort of a political dissident. is this possible? -
The way U describe NS/try to siam NS...pls give up your citizenship.Originally posted by vito_corleone:i have not served NS yet and am thinking of going overseas to study. the problem is that some people tell me once you're over 15 and not yet served NS you're not allowed to go overseas to study, is this true? and also lets say if i'm lucky enough to go, my parents will have to pay a bond and is there any way to escape NS without having my parents get a fine? i mean hey its a good 2 freakin years of my life, i could be halfway through a university degree course or make a lot of money in 2 years instead of going for NS and getting paid less than a bangla labourer. i heard of this guy who gave up his citizenship to avoid NS and is now practising law in the UK..forgot his name but they said he was some sort of a political dissident. is this possible?
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You're not the 1st one having such funny thoughts...?Originally posted by vito_corleone:i have not served NS yet and am thinking of going overseas to study. the problem is that some people tell me once you're over 15 and not yet served NS you're not allowed to go overseas to study, is this true? and also lets say if i'm lucky enough to go, my parents will have to pay a bond and is there any way to escape NS without having my parents get a fine? i mean hey its a good 2 freakin years of my life, i could be halfway through a university degree course or make a lot of money in 2 years instead of going for NS and getting paid less than a bangla labourer. i heard of this guy who gave up his citizenship to avoid NS and is now practising law in the UK..forgot his name but they said he was some sort of a political dissident. is this possible? -
Don't listen to those who ask you to treat NS like it is some kind of scared thing.. it is f***ing waste of time and I have 2 years 4 mths to waste.. 2 years 4 mths.. I can easily earn thousands.. yet I am paid so miserably, treated like dirt and make to do the worst shi*... these sadists just want to suffer like them do.. DON'T... if your parents are rich, LEAVE SINGAPORE and don't ever come back... it is very horrible... I am one very good example... LEAVE... NS is a waste of time.. it is more degrading than bangle dash workers.. cleaning toliet bowls already makes it degrading.. wat's more, u can f for no reason at all... very sad... leave leave leave.. MUST LEAVE....
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honestly la. I dun like NS, I dun like a lot of things. but life is sometimes about having to do the things u dun like to do. I'm overseas now, completed my NS, and im carefree n happy n dun have to worry about not being able to go home or snatched off the street by gawd knows which branch of the Sg SS or ISD or whoever. Just get it over n done with. But I agree that NS is a Fucked thing which basically pays u peanuts n squeezes the max they can get out of u. I'm wondering if it's actually an abuse of human rights if they don't pay u reasonable wages.
Btw that dissident u're talking about, I know who he is. Think his name is Chin Hua Piao or something. He went to e old Uni of Sg with my parents. I don't think he gave up citizenship n came here to the UK to avoid NS. Rather, he was being politically proscecuted, hence he had to leave sg. -
duplicated.
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duplicated again.
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Come to think of it, this is why Singapore has only accepted but not ratified the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.Originally posted by HENG@:honestly la. I dun like NS, I dun like a lot of things. but life is sometimes about having to do the things u dun like to do. I'm overseas now, completed my NS, and im carefree n happy n dun have to worry about not being able to go home or snatched off the street by gawd knows which branch of the Sg SS or ISD or whoever. Just get it over n done with. But I agree that NS is a Fucked thing which basically pays u peanuts n squeezes the max they can get out of u. I'm wondering if it's actually an abuse of human rights if they don't pay u reasonable wages.
Btw that dissident u're talking about, I know who he is. Think his name is Chin Hua Piao or something. He went to e old Uni of Sg with my parents. I don't think he gave up citizenship n came here to the UK to avoid NS. Rather, he was being politically proscecuted, hence he had to leave sg.
Article 38, Section 3 states "States Parties shall refrain from recruiting any person who has not attained the age of fifteen years into their armed forces. In recruiting among those persons who have attained the age of fifteen years but who have not attained the age of eighteen years, States Parties shall endeavour to give priority to those who are oldest."
Furthermore,
Minimum Age Convention, 1973 (No. 13
, Article 3 states,
1. The minimum age for admission to any type of employment or work which by its nature or the circumstances in which it is carried out is likely to jeopardise the health, safety or morals of young persons shall not be less than 18 years.
Looking back at this, our National Service system does fall into a grey area since it calls for registration of all males of 16.5 years old.Legalities aside, I feel we are exploiting the educated to do the work for 2.5 years for a pittance, which is inherently wrong, and only justified by a archaic paternalistic system of governance. -
We should be focusing more on the above 18 year olds if we want to have effective soldiers.Even then,some of your soldiers might still be childish in emotional and mental development, which is unfortunate if an officer or a specialist happens to have this symptom.You need some life experience to be a proper, effective soldier IMHO.
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Originally posted by LazerLordz:Furthermore,
Minimum Age Convention, 1973 (No. 13 , Article 3 states,
1. The minimum age for admission to any type of employment or work which by its nature or the circumstances in which it is carried out is likely to jeopardise the health, safety or morals of young persons shall not be less than 18 years.
Looking back at this, our National Service system does fall into a grey area since it calls for registration of all males of 16.5 years old.Legalities aside, I feel we are exploiting the educated to do the work for 2.5 years for a pittance, which is inherently wrong, and only justified by a archaic paternalistic system of governance. -
Though I can partially agree with what you've said... Other than the 'life experience' you've managed... You must also admit that NS has made some younger guys grow into a MAN...Originally posted by LazerLordz:We should be focusing more on the above 18 year olds if we want to have effective soldiers.Even then,some of your soldiers might still be childish in emotional and mental development, which is unfortunate if an officer or a specialist happens to have this symptom.You need some life experience to be a proper, effective soldier IMHO.
And about all the SH|T and HARDWORK many have been talking about... Though I must say I don't pretty much enjoyed them myself... But sometimes they just makes me THINK... All the CONFINEMENTS... UNREASONABLE TREATMENTS...
Makes me REALISE that 'FREEDOM' is not a NATURAL GIFT... As much as we should TREASURE IT, we would also have to WORK and FIGHT for IT.... -
To go overseas to study, your parents will need to give the govt a bond of usually $100k or more depending on your parent's income can go up to the $millions also depending on the financial status of your parents.Originally posted by vito_corleone:i have not served NS yet and am thinking of going overseas to study. the problem is that some people tell me once you're over 15 and not yet served NS you're not allowed to go overseas to study, is this true? and also lets say if i'm lucky enough to go, my parents will have to pay a bond and is there any way to escape NS without having my parents get a fine? i mean hey its a good 2 freakin years of my life, i could be halfway through a university degree course or make a lot of money in 2 years instead of going for NS and getting paid less than a bangla labourer. i heard of this guy who gave up his citizenship to avoid NS and is now practising law in the UK..forgot his name but they said he was some sort of a political dissident. is this possible?
If you were to break the bond, ie not come back to Singapore when you finish your studies without a good reason(ie can be for work) but you still have to come back to serve NS, you will lose the bond, plus your citizenship status as well as be marked as being on the wanted list. ie you will be charged and put into jail.
Pros about finishing your degree first, there isn't a break btw studies and army and back to studies...
Cons about finishing your degree first, esp if you're doing an IT degree, you will not be up to date on the latest programming and after 2 1/2yrs some new programme might be out already or you would have forgotten most of what you have learnt if you do not revise or keep up with the business trends. etc
Cons about finishing army first, you might find it hard to go back to studying again... a lot has changed in life... which leads to the pros of finishing NS first, you will be more mature, usually more motive and know what you want to do in life and what kind of career path you would like to take on and learn in the future...
For most families, the burden of the bond can be quite hard esp if they're only middle class. Because I believe the bond is held on to the govt. ie money is kept with the govt and the parents cannot touch it till the bond is released so as to secure a payment. I like to call it the zero coupon bond issued by your parents to the govt which has a full annuity value added to it!
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lolz... i praise you for what you say... because ultimately you're still in SINGAPORE serving NS. All your talk about leaving... while you're still here???Originally posted by kindaichi83:Don't listen to those who ask you to treat NS like it is some kind of scared thing.. it is f***ing waste of time and I have 2 years 4 mths to waste.. 2 years 4 mths.. I can easily earn thousands.. yet I am paid so miserably, treated like dirt and make to do the worst shi*... these sadists just want to suffer like them do.. DON'T... if your parents are rich, LEAVE SINGAPORE and don't ever come back... it is very horrible... I am one very good example... LEAVE... NS is a waste of time.. it is more degrading than bangle dash workers.. cleaning toliet bowls already makes it degrading.. wat's more, u can f for no reason at all... very sad... leave leave leave.. MUST LEAVE....
You can take up your suggestion, AWOL, go to whereever you want and live there! = )
You say you can make thousands right? So money shouldn't be problem, then go to whichever country make thousands of dollars and become a citizen of that country. -
just serve yr NS bond. It is a really really good experience and the 2 years would do u more good then harm. For me i feel tt i have matured since coming out of army and learn to treasure life. You tend to be more appreciative of life. Futhermore, it's a great time to build up yr body.
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don't think NS is juz the army only..we still got civil defence and police..basically wat i feel that why we are asked to serve NS is because the govt wanna emphasis the importance of total defence. In times of emergency,not only the army will be defending the country..everyone has a part to play,as long as u r holding the pink ic or the red passport with the majulah singapura crest on it.
come think of it..in times of emergency,we can trust the police and civil defence on their part..cos they have been practising the real thing during their service time..but wat about our army..have they really fought a war?will our army run away in times of emergency..??Simulations juz can't replace the real thing.. -
I would if my parents let me... but they don't want me to go overseas and study... oso I only from a middle class family.. my parents can't afford the bond and send me overseas.... when i said i can make thousands, it's the money I can make in 2 and half year... even a bangledash can earn that much, and AWOL will make my parents sad.... which is veri unfifilal....Originally posted by :lolz... i praise you for what you say... because ultimately you're still in SINGAPORE serving NS. All your talk about leaving... while you're still here???
You can take up your suggestion, AWOL, go to whereever you want and live there! = )
You say you can make thousands right? So money shouldn't be problem, then go to whichever country make thousands of dollars and become a citizen of that country. -
im not disagreeing that we should serve NS. I'm disagreeing with the practice of unfair pay.Originally posted by Devil1976:Though I can partially agree with what you've said... Other than the 'life experience' you've managed... You must also admit that NS has made some younger guys grow into a MAN...
And about all the SH|T and HARDWORK many have been talking about... Though I must say I don't pretty much enjoyed them myself... But sometimes they just makes me THINK... All the CONFINEMENTS... UNREASONABLE TREATMENTS...
Makes me REALISE that 'FREEDOM' is not a NATURAL GIFT... As much as we should TREASURE IT, we would also have to WORK and FIGHT for IT....