need your help! esp those who have completed NS
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They say it's our 'service' to the country...?Originally posted by HENG@:im not disagreeing that we should serve NS. I'm disagreeing with the practice of unfair pay.
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i have lots of A-level and diploma frens during my NS days....most after NS says NS su cks but still manage to complete the 2 - 2.5 yrs of s hit. now meet some during ICT...still complaining but we still serve...CBL and sleep during training but we still serve...coz one day if the need arises we know we will be behind our equipments playing the role we need to play to fight and defend and die at least with a fight in our hands.Originally posted by vito_corleone:i have not served NS yet and am thinking of going overseas to study. the problem is that some people tell me once you're over 15 and not yet served NS you're not allowed to go overseas to study, is this true? and also lets say if i'm lucky enough to go, my parents will have to pay a bond and is there any way to escape NS without having my parents get a fine? i mean hey its a good 2 freakin years of my life, i could be halfway through a university degree course or make a lot of money in 2 years instead of going for NS and getting paid less than a bangla labourer. i heard of this guy who gave up his citizenship to avoid NS and is now practising law in the UK..forgot his name but they said he was some sort of a political dissident. is this possible?
.....most of them serving NS (ICT) now are also doing quite well in their civilian lives...some defer a=for a few years to go overseas study and return with successful careers orso.......
for ur case.......i think u are welcome to go if u still cannot comprehend what i have written.
if u go, wish u luck overseas. -
e fact that everyone has to serve already makes it service. the least they can do is to be fairer to us.Originally posted by Devil1976:They say it's our 'service' to the country...? -
Come on guys, for those who think NS is a waste of time, think again. If NS is not made compulsory, who is going to protect our country? We can't rely on allied forces to defence Sg. If Sg doesnt have its own defence forces, do you think we still can sleeping every night with a peace in mind? We be living in fear everyday. You might say, Sg is too small to protect itself. I do not think that way. Sg defence system is not as bad as what you think.
To add to what kindaichi83 had said. Why want to leave for other country when Sg is so safe and comfortable to live in. What makes you think other country is better than Sg? Every guy is Sg has to serve NS. Who doesnt know he can make more money than getting those pathetic NS allowance? You can't compare in that way. Furthermore, the revised allowance is already not so bad.
Think of the postive side and long term. 2years is not that long. Its just another stage of our life. You'll start to appreciate once you get over. -
Your parents have to pay a hefty bondOriginally posted by vito_corleone:i have not served NS yet and am thinking of going overseas to study. the problem is that some people tell me once you're over 15 and not yet served NS you're not allowed to go overseas to study, is this true? and also lets say if i'm lucky enough to go, my parents will have to pay a bond and is there any way to escape NS without having my parents get a fine? i mean hey its a good 2 freakin years of my life, i could be halfway through a university degree course or make a lot of money in 2 years instead of going for NS and getting paid less than a bangla labourer. i heard of this guy who gave up his citizenship to avoid NS and is now practising law in the UK..forgot his name but they said he was some sort of a political dissident. is this possible?
Should you not return - they forfeit the bond and I am not sure how the consequences are
Should you not return - you can never ever return to singapore AGAIN EVER, even for a relative's funeral
Should you not return - your children will become stateless if you lose citizenship and cannot acquire another. However Singapore won't let you lose the citizenship if you owe them NS time. The government will wait like a trapdoor spider when you re enter and then *BHAM*. That brings me to the second part
Should you not return - you cannot land in Changi Airport to make a transit again. You have to fly across to USA or Australia to make it into Malaysia but your plane must never land on Singapore.
how I know? My building got one ex singaporean security guard who is australian, He placed NS bond (or was it sign something , I cannot remember) for his son to take him to australia where he worked 20 years ago ,when the son was a baby. The son was brought up on australian soil and became an australian citizen but the father and son cannot ever land in Singapore again ( total exile) because both will get arrested and son will be doing mandatory NS. -
Look, every male singaporean has to serve NS irregardless(unless you declare yourself as the seven day adventist whereby you can serve DB for 2 years only or get a doctor to certify that you're a whacko who loves to eat trash you will earn yourself a pes status of F and its a get out of NS and reservist card for life)Originally posted by kindaichi83:I would if my parents let me... but they don't want me to go overseas and study... oso I only from a middle class family.. my parents can't afford the bond and send me overseas.... when i said i can make thousands, it's the money I can make in 2 and half year... even a bangledash can earn that much, and AWOL will make my parents sad.... which is veri unfifilal....
Well, if there's a will there's a way. Have you heard of PSC, SAFOS or the infamous President scholarship? If you really wanted to go overseas to study, you can! Work hard get a scholarship that will pay for your schools and even living expenses + books! The SAFOS, gives you $3000 or more a month while you study and your bond with them is 6 years.
Anything is possible. Just work your hard!
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Yeah... Already they're trying to make things better nowadays... Because they realised that the 'Iron Arms' just don't work anymore... If you ain't convinced, you simply ain't... Have to serve NS doesn't necessarily means that you'll see the reason to FIGHT in a REAL WAR situation... And that's simply the WHOLE IDEA of TOTAL DEFENCE!Originally posted by HENG@:e fact that everyone has to serve already makes it service. the least they can do is to be fairer to us.
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I'm in favor of NS.. coz i'm singaporean.. if u dun wish to go thru NS.. sure.. pay the 75k.. renounce ur citizenship.. pay back wat ever u owe to the country n her taxpayers.. subsidised education.. sub transport.. sub med checkups.. generally good material wellbeing etc.. pay back wat u owe n we'll leave u alone.. dunforget to pay interest rate plus price increases due to inflation.. pay off ur real debt..
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why the hell do i wanna work towards a bloody saf scholarship when i hate the saf? to keep it simple, i'll finish the 2 yrs of shit and then leave. fair enough, i dont owe singapore a living.Originally posted by :Look, every male singaporean has to serve NS irregardless(unless you declare yourself as the seven day adventist whereby you can serve DB for 2 years only or get a doctor to certify that you're a whacko who loves to eat trash you will earn yourself a pes status of F and its a get out of NS and reservist card for life)
Well, if there's a will there's a way. Have you heard of PSC, SAFOS or the infamous President scholarship? If you really wanted to go overseas to study, you can! Work hard get a scholarship that will pay for your schools and even living expenses + books! The SAFOS, gives you $3000 or more a month while you study and your bond with them is 6 years.
Anything is possible. Just work your hard! -
Don't kept saying I owe the country.. I don't owe the country anything.. I am a lawful citizen and my parents paid taxes... I owe my parents a living and Mother Earth for the nature resoures... not my country... my country does not even have land for the rice I eat... I DON'T NEED TO PAY A DEBT... The country owe me two and a half years of my LIFE.. what if I get knocked down by a tank tomorrow... can't believe my last days of life are spend SUFFERING in NS when I supposed to have fun or at least enrich myself by going to unversity... STUPID REASONs... go and fight for the country lah... let's see where u are when the country is at war...Originally posted by Gackt247:I'm in favor of NS.. coz i'm singaporean.. if u dun wish to go thru NS.. sure.. pay the 75k.. renounce ur citizenship.. pay back wat ever u owe to the country n her taxpayers.. subsidised education.. sub transport.. sub med checkups.. generally good material wellbeing etc.. pay back wat u owe n we'll leave u alone.. dunforget to pay interest rate plus price increases due to inflation.. pay off ur real debt.. -
Then dun get a job in Singapore.Originally posted by vito_corleone:why the hell do i wanna work towards a bloody saf scholarship when i hate the saf? to keep it simple, i'll finish the 2 yrs of shit and then leave. fair enough, i dont owe singapore a living. -
that's why i'm planning to go overseasOriginally posted by deathscythe99:Then dun get a job in Singapore. 
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Me also dun like NS one due to
1) went in as a injuries free person but kena injured on left leg due PTP period and went for a operation and only got 1 good leg left. Got perm downgraded and i am a signal storeman now
2) have to work OT and without combat pay while the rest of the storeman all book out.....sucks big time man
but.................
Just SAF
Serve
And
Fark off
just like all the male in singapore male did -
Originally posted by ryangian:Me also dun like NS one due to
1) went in as a injuries free person but kena injured on left leg due PTP period and went for a operation and only got 1 good leg left. Got perm downgraded and i am a signal storeman now
2) have to work OT and without combat pay while the rest of the storeman all book out.....sucks big time man
but.................
Just SAF Serve And Fark off
just like all the male in singapore male did -
Yeah.I can understand what you are getting at.Just make sure you get the best deal.Me?I'll serve and leave.That way, my liability is completed and no one in the establishment will lay their hands on my income, decide what my son should study if he wants a bright future and most of all, I will be me.I will have made my choice, and the exercise of free will and choice is something greatly undervalued here.Originally posted by kindaichi83:Don't kept saying I owe the country.. I don't owe the country anything.. I am a lawful citizen and my parents paid taxes... I owe my parents a living and Mother Earth for the nature resoures... not my country... my country does not even have land for the rice I eat... I DON'T NEED TO PAY A DEBT... The country owe me two and a half years of my LIFE.. what if I get knocked down by a tank tomorrow... can't believe my last days of life are spend SUFFERING in NS when I supposed to have fun or at least enrich myself by going to unversity... STUPID REASONs... go and fight for the country lah... let's see where u are when the country is at war... -
now ns 2 yrs only,pay higher, 5 days work week.... wat more can you expect...
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That is exactly what I am going to do.. I serve and fuk off... and please note I always do my work veri well.. so much that I know more work than my IC... it is that sad... my IC, a regular just pushes all his work to me... very sad.... but I will survive.... but I can be assure that my son will never be singaporean citizen.. that's what I am hoping... so that he will not..Originally posted by LazerLordz:Yeah.I can understand what you are getting at.Just make sure you get the best deal.Me?I'll serve and leave.That way, my liability is completed and no one in the establishment will lay their hands on my income, decide what my son should study if he wants a bright future and most of all, I will be me.I will have made my choice, and the exercise of free will and choice is something greatly undervalued here.
1) force to do so many subjects since young.. force to go to the 'good' schools... misled by the government that chinese or life science is good...
2) NS... no one is allowed to take away 2 years of anyone life... NO ONE...
3) no expensive houses.. no losing university places and job offers to 'foreign talents'
4) crowd around in HDB flats.. even the bunglows are so crowded among one other...
5) and MANY MANY MORE! -
SIMPLE. Don't have a son?Originally posted by kindaichi83:That is exactly what I am going to do.. I serve and fuk off... and please note I always do my work veri well.. so much that I know more work than my IC... it is that sad... my IC, a regular just pushes all his work to me... very sad.... but I will survive.... but I can be assure that my son will never be singaporean citizen.. that's what I am hoping... so that he will not..
1) force to do so many subjects since young.. force to go to the 'good' schools... misled by the government that chinese or life science is good...
2) NS... no one is allowed to take away 2 years of anyone life... NO ONE...
3) no expensive houses.. no losing university places and job offers to 'foreign talents'
4) crowd around in HDB flats.. even the bunglows are so crowded among one other...
5) and MANY MANY MORE!
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If you have a son, make sure you are a citizen of another country (unless you are a woman who married a foreigner)
If you have a son, make sure your son is not born on Singaporean soil.
If you have a son , make sure your son is not educated on Singaporean soil
If you have a son, make sure your son don't use any Singaporean facilities.
Then your son don't have to serve NS. -
What i feel is after the National Service, pls dun disturb the guyz anymore. No more reservists...
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Serving NS is no problem given that :-Originally posted by Ogbunwezeh:What i feel is after the National Service, pls dun disturb the guyz anymore. No more reservists...
1)its stayout, i am sure it will just be like attendin school, and the whole idea of NS sucks may lessen...NSFs might not feel as miserable as they are now...
2) stayout makes SAF save a lot of money which could potentially be used to
to address other problems like declining birth rate like incentives ect.. I mean u need soldiers to be born to serve the nation..If u cant address that fundamental issue, then u are getting nowhere
3)if that army culture of tekan is limited only to training and not at other times...If everyone has a job scope laid down black and white to do and not a regular pushing his job to pathetic NSFs by just exercising his rank authority and a few other issues as well which gave rise to that "NS sucks" syndrome
4) early education in schools to teach good values to younger generation to diffenriate between right and wrong, be humble and forgiving and to treat your fellow humans well in order to be treated well....IMO our singapore education system does not really do that...it place emphasis on selfishness like cultivating a paper chase culture by differentiating school standards ect.this forces students to be more competitive and in turn more cunning....Apart from creativit,Moral values might take a backseat...
5)have u wondered why foreigners are more creative, cause they are not bred in a ironfist culture...They had the time to be more creative when in school and ponder about things..The idea here is to cultivate citizens whoo are "thinking" rather than "roboting"..many creative people like great poets, scientists were from other countries..But have Singapore produced any which u could identify with other than a few exceptions..Everyone here seems to be bred in that pre-conceived idea _born, study get degree. work governemnt stable job which is fine but not getting involved with sociopolitics is a disadvantage... -
Yeah i agree with this point. We dun have a specific job scope. SAF man management skills also sucks. Maybe its bcoz i compare to the civilian way of doing things... I juz dun like the way they command those low rank NSF to help them to do stuffs, they will use words like, HEY YOU COME HERE etc. Its like calling a dog or something. If one need help from others, this is not the way.Originally posted by MunnaBhai_MBBS:If everyone has a job scope laid down black and white to do and not a regular pushing his job to pathetic NSFs by just exercising his rank authority and a few other issues as well which gave rise to that "NS sucks" syndrome -
The problem with the supposed SAF management skills is not to be blamed
on SAF ..The problems are the same and present in any other organisation as well........Saf is run by people .Its the interpersonal relationships of people and their ideals in a heirachy or organisation which determines its success..This is where point number 4) in my earlier post plays a dominant role
The only organisations whic i could think of which do not really have this probs are religious or charity/compassionate animal activist organisations which are driven by ideals like human moral values and beliefs for the benefit of serving fellow humans and creatures..the interpersonal relationships in this organisations are somewhat good -
We are just batteries with slight autonomy for a huge inefficient machine.Originally posted by kindaichi83:That is exactly what I am going to do.. I serve and fuk off... and please note I always do my work veri well.. so much that I know more work than my IC... it is that sad... my IC, a regular just pushes all his work to me... very sad.... but I will survive.... but I can be assure that my son will never be singaporean citizen.. that's what I am hoping... so that he will not..
1) force to do so many subjects since young.. force to go to the 'good' schools... misled by the government that chinese or life science is good...
2) NS... no one is allowed to take away 2 years of anyone life... NO ONE...
3) no expensive houses.. no losing university places and job offers to 'foreign talents'
4) crowd around in HDB flats.. even the bunglows are so crowded among one other...
5) and MANY MANY MORE! -
Hmm... Sometimes the world is 'dark', my friend... And things might not be as obvious as they seems to be...?Originally posted by MunnaBhai_MBBS:The problem with the supposed SAF management skills is not to be blamed
on SAF ..The problems are the same and present in any other organisation as well........Saf is run by people .Its the interpersonal relationships of people and their ideals in a heirachy or organisation which determines its success..This is where point number 4) in my earlier post plays a dominant role
The only organisations whic i could think of which do not really have this probs are religious or charity/compassionate animal activist organisations which are driven by ideals like human moral values and beliefs for the benefit of serving fellow humans and creatures..the interpersonal relationships in this organisations are somewhat good