Can any christian answer my question???
-
Wonder how much do you really wanna know about the 'truth'...? ..... I've got a proposed picture that joins most things together now, but how close is it really to the 'truth' I do NOT know... YET?Originally posted by hopy:all human sin in some way or the other, and as long as u sin, u r deam as 'unclean' thats wat its saying, and not tat all unbelievers r evil
believers on the other hand has been been cleared of all sins when they have accept Jesus Christ into their heart (although i must agree that some pple do not really do wat a christians shld do, but they will be judge by God someday, there will always be some black sheeps ard. so juz keep ur mind and options open. not all christians r like tat.) -
Wonder how much do you really wanna know about the 'truth'...? ..... I've got a proposed picture that joins most things together now, but how close is it really to the 'truth' I do NOT know... YET?[/B][/QUOTE]Originally posted by Devil1976:[QUOTE]Originally posted by hopy:
[b] all human sin in some way or the other, and as long as u sin, u r deam as 'unclean' thats wat its saying, and not tat all unbelievers r evil
believers on the other hand has been been cleared of all sins when they have accept Jesus Christ into their heart (although i must agree that some pple do not really do wat a christians shld do, but they will be judge by God someday, there will always be some black sheeps ard. so juz keep ur mind and options open. not all christians r like tat.)
huh??? wat u mean?
------------------
All those who suffer in the world do so because of their desire for their own happiness...
All those happy in the world are so because of their desire for the happiness of others... -
All the humans born as 'sinners'... The 'CONCEPT' of GOOD and EVIL can be EXPLAINED..... In a sense...? Sometime ago I was having some quite intellectual and interesting conversations with some Christians and non-Christians.... They provided me with quite an INSIGHT to my uncompleted picture.... Right now, the picture is sort of completed but blurrish as I have not really got the time to go through and formulate out the whole thing yet... Rather, I'm spending more time catching up with Science and see the validity and consistency of my picture with it later... And perhaps at the same time IRON OUT some of the defects or misconcepts within, and strengthen the PICTURE if it proves to be a worthy one....?Originally posted by hopy:huh??? wat u mean?
For now, I can only say that the terms 'Sin', 'Evil' & 'Good' are blurrish among the people... ESPECIALLY the Christians and the non-Christians... And I BELIEVE ALOT of Christians still do NOT understand the HOLDING MEANING for 'SIN', 'ORIGINAL SIN', 'EVIL' & 'GOOD'..... Less to speak for the non-Christians.... That the HOLDING CONCEPT for the terms (the way I interpreted them, and somehow I believe the way the bible and many other religions are trying to put them) means ALOT to the INTERPRETATION of FRAMEWORK and IDEAs locked within....
It is INTERESTING to note that... When there is no agreement upon these terms (only believed to be AGREED terms), the final 'picture' or perception would most naturally be different.... Not to mention even for discussions...? -
So a person who has done nothing wrong in his/her life and believes in God, BUT is not a Christian has sinned? Then tell me what is his/her sin? That's like saying people who follow other religions are all sinners!Originally posted by hopy:all human sin in some way or the other, and as long as u sin, u r deam as 'unclean' thats wat its saying, and not tat all unbelievers r evil
believers on the other hand has been been cleared of all sins when they have accept Jesus Christ into their heart (although i must agree that some pple do not really do wat a christians shld do, but they will be judge by God someday, there will always be some black sheeps ard. so juz keep ur mind and options open. not all christians r like tat.)
------------------
I do not fear Death, for Life is my guide. -
...... Hope you would understand one day....? And please don't question her anymore...? She can see that her replies are with question marks...? That means that Hopy's got DOUBTS.... I should believe doubt not in his/her god, but in his/her understandings.... The fact that he/she cannot answer you would not overturn his/her verdict for his/her religion so easily....Originally posted by shandower:So a person who has done nothing wrong in his/her life and believes in God, BUT is not a Christian has sinned? Then tell me what is his/her sin? That's like saying people who follow other religions are all sinners!
At 1st I found it abrupt nonsense too... But to each their own points....
SINs..... WHY bother to dissect it?
[This message has been edited by Devil1976 (edited 19 June 2002).] -
Oei city harvest church dun stop ppl from playing magic cards lar.. maybe some other church are more conservative that's all.. but all church meant for the good of the ppl..Originally posted by hopy:my final ans will be city harvest church...lock it in
------------------
All those who suffer in the world do so because of their desire for their own happiness...
All those happy in the world are so because of their desire for the happiness of others...
and wad's wrong for a pastor to enter into the entertainment realm? wad's wrong to save more souls... and converting ppl?
church make ppl better they dun force u or anything like that at least not for city harvest church.. we only reach out to the lost..
-
looks like the original thread has digressed to a discussion abt christianity.... think all of us shld try to look at this objectively and refrain from posting biased and hurtful remarks. Let's all be more mature.
Like what someone said, the Bible does not force people to do anything, be it marrying a christian only etc... if God wants to force pple, then wouldn't it be easier for Him to force everyone to accept Him (by some ways which I do not know how)?Then there wouldnt be such dicussions in the first place. But He is gracious enough to give us free choice. So why does the Bible say "Do not be yoked with unbelievers"? It is bec God knows the consequences that may result if a christian n a non-christian get together. Just think abt all the practical reasons, to name a few, such as ur spouse will be spending time going for services n cellgrps etc leaving u alone... ur spouse believes in certain things but u do not... such things may (and it's MAY not will) create strife within the relationship and some point in time. This is only some of the things that may crop up... personally, I myself knew my gf when she was a non-christian and i am one. The chance of this happening is very high i think since there are only like 16% christians in Sg (something like tt, dont remember). But I truly believed that my gf will be a christian and so went ahead with the relationship.... well good thing abt my case is tt she already knew Christ before n before she met me she aredi contemplated accepting Christ, so shortly after she accepted
.
I know many people like to complain abt christians behaving like jerks n hurting/cheating others. I think everyone subconsciously expects high standards fr a christian which is not wrong. To all people who have been hurt or sinned against by such christians, pls know that God sees all their actions and if they continue to blatantly do those bad things, there will be a time when there is no more remission of sins, and they too will lose their salvation.
Why do christians like to convert pple? pls try to understand their reason for it. It does not benefit them if they convert u. But it sure benefits u a lot. So they are not doing it for their own hidden agenda (okay there may be some who have gone off the str path who may do it for other reasons, but the end result is still that you get saved). Of course there are pple who do things tactlessly or w/o consideration when they try to spread the gospel to friends. Not everyone is blessed with good EQ n communication skills. So next time ur friend tries to convert u, just know tt he is doing it for ur own good. If ur really not interested just tell him. No need to get all -ve abt everything.
Last issue I want to talk abt is that yes, there are bound to be black sheeps everywhere, especially when a church congregation is large, obviously there will be more bad sheeps running abt. Do not judge the church or religion just bec of these few pple. -
The reason why a christian is not encourage to be with a non-christian is because the non-christian side will slowly begin to influence the christian thus pulling him/her away from christ.all u have to do is to believe in him.God do things in his time,if god really meant you two to be together,you two will be together eventually.For god is great and mighty.
-
devil1976
please take note that the moment that you start to believe in god is the time that u have receive salvation.you are not a sinner anymore cause god has died for you.you are deem a christian from that moment on.so u r consider as someone who is a saint that occasionaly sins.you are no longer called a sinner. -
Hi everyone, I would like to clarify that christianity is not juz christianity, its mainly made up of catholics and the protestants. Yes, protestants... Get that clear. I am a catholic and my religion's practices, cultures evangelisation is very much diff from the protestants. Pls use the word protestants now to refer, cause christians also mean us and alot of the complaints and bad things u all are saying, i frankly dun see it in the catholic faith.
I seriously can tell u that this discussion and debate can go on an on... and its useless, cause we will still continue on our ways. i seriously do not condone some actions of the protestant's teachings and how they carry out their religious teaching, but its their business. You guys out there make the choice, but u all should know all the clear facts, from the History of religions back from how the faith originated, how the muslims came about, how the protestants cameabout. Study your history, get your facts clear, then come debate. dun believe all your pastors on what they say. I personally feel that some of them are like 'Muslim extremist' so in this case protestant extremist, except that their goal is money and power and not destruction. I can put a load of facts and show u why but it would hurt alot of pple's feelings writing such truths. Truths u nvr knew cause u believed the words from someone's mouth and not from proper studying. Its really interesting to study how religion came about, even for the Buddhist and taoism. Its really cool! I can alwaz debate with a protestant and he mostly loses and makes him go back to find out more, or he would take a stubborn stand and refuse to believe in what i say. Got abit of muslim extremist elements... I am not spiking or laughing at the protestants but its juz that most of these cuckoos, having known abit of religion try to preach and talk as if they know so much, the worse is when they find out their 'truth' is false. I am not flaming anyone and juz urge u pple to read more, not only on christianity, but all religions. Buddhism and taosim is very good for relaxation somehow. I truly respect the Dhia Larma. Read his book. Happy researching! -
aiyah just tell her that she should stop being a christian and accept you for what you are. if she asks why, tell her i have spoken...
-
Hi Metalgear,
Since you know so much, would you like to share what's the difference between catholic and protestant? I would like to see your view.
You said you respect Dhala Lama, do you believe buddhist god also?
Peace
Raymond -
God is often considered to be omnipotent,omniscient and kind, but this is where the trouble starts, as these qualities are mutually exclusive. You can have any two but not all three.
There is a contradiction in the idea of a supreme being who is omniscient, kind and yet creates souls in the knowledge that they are damned to eternal agony in hell. If God is omniscient then he knows all events both past and future, including how people will behave, and their ultimate fate in hell or heaven. He knows this before they are even born. God has already condemned newborn babes to eternal fire.
Does God exist within time or outside of time?
If God exists within time, and he is subject to the uncertainties of Time just like all of of us, then Time is definitely more powerful than God.
If God is omiscient and exists outside time, then he can never make a decision or choose a course of action, because he knows in advance exactly what his future actions will be for all eternity. The entire history and future of the universe will be laid out before him like the frames of a movie. He cannot decide to change his mind because he knows in advance when and how he will decide to change his mind, so his mind will already be made up. Such a God would be totally paralysed by His own pre-ordained future.
God is been overspecified God with various power attributes to such an extent that he has become a logically impossible being. For example:
Can he produce a truly indestructible object if he is omnipotent ? If he can't then he's not omnipotent. If he can then he's not omnipotent either because now there is one action he cannot do that is to destroy what he created.
If God is good can you explain why there is so many human and animal suffering in His creation? If suffering and other evils is due to Satan rather than God, then why doesn't God get rid of Satan. after all, God is omnipotent, In any case, if God is omniscient he knows what Satan is going to do in advance, so God could always prevent Satan from creating any evil..
Can God create autonomous beings, whose wishes and intentions he can't control? In in creating autonomous beings God would lose his omnipotence as he couldn't control their actions. This implies that creating such beings he would have changed in his ultimate nature from a perfect being to a limited being.
If God is perfect then he is sufficient in Himself. So why bother to create a world at all? But if God is omniscient, he already know the outcome of creating this world such that human race will suffer why create in the first place the first place?
Buddhism object to the idea of a God who throws infidels and sinners eternal Hell.What also causes problems is that Buddhism is as much a philosophy as it is a religion, and does not adopt logically inconsistent doctrines. The concept of an 'inherently-existent' God is fraught with difficulties.
Buddhist philosophy regards all phenomena as being 'dependently-related' , that is existing contingently upon three relationships.
(1) In relation to their causes
(2) In relation to their parts.
(3) In relation to the mind of the observer.
The opposite of being 'dependently-related' is to be 'inherently-existent', ie existing from its own side. An inherently existent thing contains the reason for its existence within itself.
The standard Christian idea of God is that He is self-defined and not dependently-related to anything else. God is an uncaused monad with no constituent parts who exists even in the absence of any other observer. But the fact that he is not dependently-related to anything else means that no external event can change his state, so he cannot, for example, become angry if someone blasphemes against him. Neither can he forgive someone against whom he has a grudge.
An inherently-existent God can never change nor be other than what He has always been, and can in no way make any reference to Time. Nor can he in any other way interact with, or receive information from dependently-related entities. He resides in splendid isolation for all eternity. -
The following is a theory of meme often use by religions to proprogate their teaching.
[1] Promise heaven for belief.
[2] Threaten eternal punishment in hell for disbelief.
[3] Boost the believers' egos by telling them they are 'chosen' or superior to believers of other religion.
[4] Disable the thought of disbelief ('immune response') by claiming that faith is superior to reason.
[5] Establish itself as the One True religion, usually by some sort of holy book containing a circular self-referential argument such as:
X is the one true god. We know X is the one true god because The Source of Universal Truth has approved X. We know The Source of Universal Truth has approved X, because X contains statements which say so. We know what X says is true because X is the one true god
Once it has parasitised the mind .of its host, a it needs to propagate itself. A successful meme will contain instructions for some or all of the following:
[6] convert all unbelievers.
[7] threaten and discriminate against unbelievers.
[[8] prevent rival religion from reaching potential hosts
[9] spread lies about rival memes. Demonise them - the bigger the lies the more likely they are to be believed. -
>>>The reason why a christian is not encourage to be with a non->>>>christian is because the non-christian side will slowly begin to i>>>nfluence the christian thus pulling him/her away from christ.all >>>u have to do is to believe in him.God do things in his time,if god >>>really meant you two to be together,you two will be together >>>>eventually.For god is great and mighty.
Afraid of bad influence??? This what i called theory of meme of point no..[8] prevent rival religion from reaching potential hosts. Is God really great and mighty???? Please read my previous msg. -
To Metalgear,
~ 5 !
truth speaks for itself, only a matter of time.
To EmPtInEsS ..... -
Who are youOriginally posted by cecilkoh:devil1976
please take note that the moment that you start to believe in god is the time that u have receive salvation.you are not a sinner anymore cause god has died for you.you are deem a christian from that moment on.so u r consider as someone who is a saint that occasionaly sins.you are no longer called a sinner.
Is this your definition or is this the STANDARD definition? Are you a Christian?
Please note that... Once you've commited a CRIME, you're a CRIMMINAL... You can be forgiven or even made to pay for your deed(s), but it won't change the very fact of what had happened in the past... Would you think of someone who occasionally kills, not a murderer?
A SINNER is DEFINED through the context that the ORIGINAL SIN is COMMITED. Not escape for that under that context. The sins you have or have not commited in your Lifetime is another issue altogether....