'Unsolvable' - Wu Jie.
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Yup, you are not able to forsee the outcome about this.Originally posted by Devil1976:Sometimes there just isn't a sure way to tell. When you accept the pick up and is willing to face the consequences, only time can tell you your story...
This is also another reason why I posted this up in AA with the topic... Sometimes in life, either way you walk.. You won't know which way comes to a dead end... Or perhaps they all leads to nowhere...? Happens like in the dilemma of others' stories...
I think whatever decision you make, it might cause the friendship to deteriorate.
Weigh it out?
Cheers -
The problem has already been shared long ago... With STACKS of LIES WITHIN..Originally posted by NekoRin:Hmm, he still not willing to share what's his problem? -
and the reason why you are even considering this is that you are hoping that he can prove you wrong?Originally posted by Devil1976:The 'heck care' attitude sickens me... Somehow it's like what you've said... Coming out with hard-earned money and I won't even be surprised if that person doesn't return me the money, but only surprise as to why I still do it when it's quite obviously(?) that the money won't be returned as promised..?
Somehow I kinda expect the person to change job, change address (rental) and change contact number ONCE the money gets into hand....
prove to you that he is really a good friend? -
But all these are just my guesses and thoughts..?Originally posted by a_splash:since u already know, still want to 'ill treat' yourself??
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If the case is genuine, the person didn't do anything wrong to deserve whatever's gonna happen.Originally posted by smudgey:base on the above highlighted statement, I will harden my heart and not help that person.
He/she is not appreciative at all... and is probably only using you.
think twice before handing the money over.
I really think that person is not worth putting yourself into debt just so you can help him/her.
he made his bed. let him sleep in it!
Some people just tell with that kinda attitude and tone. Is that good enough a reason for me to kick that person aside
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Originally posted by Devil1976:
it's easier to do that if the person in question is :
Jiang qian shang gan qing... Somehow I very much agree with this saying... Not that such things cannot happen, but also depends on that person's attitude and whether the person can be trusted..?
Let me share with you my own experiences..
Like you, I had been cheated too... Once by an ex. The moment the money went over, the person just vanishes into thin air... It's not just the money somehow. But the trust and belief.. And just makes you feel 'cheap' somehow...? Betrayed.. Just for that kinda money...? I'm the kinda person who... When you have a problem, we sit down and try to figure out a solution together... Not through digging from a hole just to cover another...
Some time after that, I was borrowed money by a friend again... Somehow I just didn't learn my lesson hard enough... Yup... Was a 'set up'... So when this person asked of me, I somehow just have LOTS of 'flashbacks'..... Knowing how STUPID I SHOULD be to AGREE... Just like a mad man running his way off a cliff... Is there no sure way to tell? But ALMOST all things POINTS to '[b]NO'. Why HESITATE? Why still so many QUESTIONS and DOUBTS? Why can't the things I've said to the person be taken SERIOUSLY? WHY RETURNED with LIES..? Then which FOLLOWS... WHY QUESTION my REJECTION then I KNOW WHAT YOU NEED, BUT WHY CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND MY STAND and SIMPLE ENGLISH...??
...... Why ask?
Another experience is when I was in sh|t.... DEBT and some STUPID MESSED UP CREDIT PROBLEMS which was really dealt up because of the provider's system faults... My BUDDIES GOT ME OUT OF IT.... That kinda TRUST and HELP... Just 2 QUESTIONS from them (btw, they're not very rich people and it wasn't a small sum...) They simply asked...
1. "How much you need?"
2. "When you need it...?"
After which they just asked me to give them some time to help me get the MONEY.... You KNOW HOW it FELT...?
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1) More honest (telling you the truth and not lying to you)
2) more appreciative
3) more trustworthy
4) better attitude
when your buddies asked you to give them some time to get the money, I'm sure you did not say "Ya, whatever.... as long as you can lend me the money can liao" -
Yes... you don't owe him anything.Originally posted by Devil1976:If the case is genuine, the person didn't do anything wrong to deserve whatever's gonna happen.
Some people just tell with that kinda attitude and tone. Is that good enough a reason for me to kick that person aside
You have the rights not to lend him any money or not helping him at all.
But if he accuse you of not being a friend, it really shows that he's only trying to make use of you.
I've been there before too. It really spoilt the friendship even though my friend did try to slowly return the money every month. -
On a couple of occasions where I almost handled over the $, I hesitated. It's displayed all over me.. The DOUBTS I have over the person... Yes... It's already deteriorating...Originally posted by M©+square:Yup, you are not able to forsee the outcome about this.
I think whatever decision you make, it might cause the friendship to deteriorate.
Weigh it out?
Cheers
Anyway, the 'deadline' is coming up... But I've checked... Even the 'deadline' is a fake... The real one is about a month later.. Why the lie? To give the person more time if I fail? Or...?
The last time I met this person (I took leave), I offered to accompany the person to settle the debt... But the person got angry and said I was doubting again... Insisted not to pay and settle the debt in advance... All the actions gave me lots of WEIRD THINKINGS... I mean.. If you're REALLY DESPERATE, yuo still so 'CHARACTER' and 'ATTITUDE'... -
how long do you know her?Originally posted by Devil1976:If the case is genuine, the person didn't do anything wrong to deserve whatever's gonna happen.
Some people just tell with that kinda attitude and tone. Is that good enough a reason for me to kick that person aside
how well?
this is like the free-falling game whereby your friend stands behind you and you just lean and fall backwards letting her catch you.
can you trust her well enough to let yourself free-fall?
this is exactly like that.
Money is not the only thing on the table here. money lost you can always earn back. but the most impt thing is your feeling... if she dissappears, etc. the worst part is your feeling of hurt and betrayal.
consider this thoroughly.
Is she the person you think she is? -
Yes.. Somehow...?Originally posted by smudgey:and the reason why you are even considering this is that you are hoping that he can prove you wrong?
prove to you that he is really a good friend?
But of course, to be fair.. There're also some signs that the person is not out to cheat me... eg. The person used to give me treats and it's enough to cover a good part of what I'm offering back in return... -
I know... But the problem now is.. The person isn't the 4 points you've stated...Originally posted by smudgey:it's easier to do that if the person in question is :
1) More honest (telling you the truth and not lying to you)
2) more appreciative
3) more trustworthy
4) better attitude
when your buddies asked you to give them some time to get the money, I'm sure you did not say "Ya, whatever.... as long as you can lend me the money can liao" -
you are here to ask our take on this.Originally posted by Devil1976:On a couple of occasions where I almost handled over the $, I hesitated. It's displayed all over me.. The DOUBTS I have over the person... Yes... It's already deteriorating...
Anyway, the 'deadline' is coming up... But I've checked... Even the 'deadline' is a fake... The real one is about a month later.. Why the lie? To give the person more time if I fail? Or...?
The last time I met this person (I took leave), I offered to accompany the person to settle the debt... But the person got angry and said I was doubting again... Insisted not to pay and settle the debt in advance... All the actions gave me lots of WEIRD THINKINGS... I mean.. If you're REALLY DESPERATE, yuo still so 'CHARACTER' and 'ATTITUDE'...
I agree with maomao.
you don't owe her anything.
don't do it.
she is not appreciative at all. -
The suggested method to return is also through monthly installments... But I thought... With such an attitude, I won't know when the person would just 'don't feel like returning'...?Originally posted by Mao x 2:Yes... you don't owe him anything.
You have the rights not to lend him any money or not helping him at all.
But if he accuse you of not being a friend, it really shows that he's only trying to make use of you.
I'll been there before too. It really spoilt the friendship even though my friend did try to slowly return the money every month. -
What I THINK, DOESN'T DEFINE what the person IS...Originally posted by smudgey:how long do you know her?
how well?
this is like the free-falling game whereby your friend stands behind you and you just lean and fall backwards letting her catch you.
can you trust her well enough to let yourself free-fall?
this is exactly like that.
Money is not the only thing on the table here. money lost you can always earn back. but the most impt thing is your feeling... if she dissappears, etc. the worst part is your feeling of hurt and betrayal.
consider this thoroughly.
Is she the person you think she is? -
As suggested by someone just now, ask him to sign an IOU.Originally posted by Devil1976:The suggested method to return is also through monthly installments... But I thought... With such an attitude, I won't know when the person would just 'don't feel like returning'...?
Tell him it's not that you don't trust him, just that you have to protect yourself too. if he's really a friend, he will not question your intention and sign it. -
Hmm to sum up what I have to say about this topic...
Sorry if I'm too critical in my previous posts ^^;
I had a friend of mine whom will only call me when he needs to borrow money from me, and his attitude is similar to Devil's friend. Really makes me pissed when he shot out the "We are friends for so long. So little money you can't even fork out to lend me?"...... Haiz, so-called friends who never contact me for a couple of years and their only calls are to borrow money... And his best statement "I know you are having a meeting now but I can rush over to your workplace and get your ATM card. Just give me your pin and I'll return to you when I draw out the amount I need. Really, I promised."
sighz.....
As for me I don't gauge friendship in terms of money. Yes I would help out a friend in need if he/she needs money urgently, but I would have to trust that friend first. It isn't easy to trust someone if he/she lies just to borrow money and when all else fails, uses the 'our friendship isn't worth that amount of money/trust?' to gain back the edge in the conversation.
For Borrowers:
It doesn't mean when we need help we need to humble ourselves and kneel infront of the person and beg. But it's certainly not the otherway round, talking to a friend as if he is obliged to lend you the cash. It isn't easy to come up with the amount if it's big and it certainly will affect the friendship in one way or another as things often get worse when it comes to money matters.
For Lenders:
Feel it's better to reaccess the situation with the borrower. You are there to help a friend to solve a big problem of his/hers. It's a better option to just sit down together, discuss about the ongoing happenings and come up with a plan on how to resolve the money problem, with no lies from each party. Help a friend to your personal limit, no point borrowing around from other people/friends just to help out your friend. You will get yourself and more people into complication nia.
Devil : My advise is to talk it out with your friend ba, find out what's actually troubling him rather than him making lies just to make you lend you money. And if you do lend money to him, make sure you are comfortable with it. Don't borrow from others just to lend to another. -
That's what I thought too. But often the way people work around can be quite different..Originally posted by Mao x 2:As suggested by someone just now, ask him to sign an IOU.
Tell him it's not that you don't trust him, just that you have to protect yourself too. if he's really a friend, he will not question your intention and sign it. -
The person won't speak. Like I've said, the person can lie in front of me without blinking a bit. And even if the person decided to tell me the 'truth', I won't know if it's for real or just another of the 'tales'?Originally posted by NekoRin:Hmm to sum up what I have to say about this topic...
Sorry if I'm too critical in my previous posts ^^;
I had a friend of mine whom will only call me when he needs to borrow money from me, and his attitude is similar to Devil's friend. Really makes me pissed when he shot out the "We are friends for so long. So little money you can't even fork out to lend me?"...... Haiz, so-called friends who never contact me for a couple of years and their only calls are to borrow money... And his best statement "I know you are having a meeting now but I can rush over to your workplace and get your ATM card. Just give me your pin and I'll return to you when I draw out the amount I need. Really, I promised." sighz.....
As for me I don't gauge friendship in terms of money. Yes I would help out a friend in need if he/she needs money urgently, but I would have to trust that friend first. It isn't easy to trust someone if he/she lies just to borrow money and when all else fails, uses the 'our friendship isn't worth that amount of money/trust?' to gain back the edge in the conversation.
For Borrowers:
It doesn't mean when we need help we need to humble ourselves and kneel infront of the person and beg. But it's certainly not the otherway round, talking to a friend as if he is obliged to lend you the cash. It isn't easy to come up with the amount if it's big and it certainly will affect the friendship in one way or another as things often get worse when it comes to money matters.
For Lenders:
Feel it's better to reaccess the situation with the borrower. You are there to help a friend to solve a big problem of his/hers. It's a better option to just sit down together, discuss about the ongoing happenings and come up with a plan on how to resolve the money problem, with no lies from each party. Help a friend to your personal limit, no point borrowing around from other people/friends just to help out your friend. You will get yourself and more people into complication nia.
Devil : My advise is to talk it out with your friend ba, find out what's actually troubling him rather than him making lies just to make you lend you money. And if you do lend money to him, make sure you are comfortable with it. Don't borrow from others just to lend to another. -
So far i only one person approached me to borrow money. $50 i could still afford at that time, so I lent her. She went around borrowing from a few colleagues also. But she returned me the money once she got her pay. I really din trust her, but I still lent it to her coz she really need the money.
I had another colleague who really had no money left in her account and she had to borrow from her younger bro who was still schooling. What me and colleagues did was treat her to lunch and help her cut down on expenses.
Money is a very sensitive issue. I will not borrow unless I'm really at my wits' end. Worse come to worse, I borrow from my parents or sister. I dun borrow from frens. Coz it's still a test to the frenship.. and I think my frens have the same mindset as me.
u din mention why ur fren need the money.. if he/she wants the money to get an abortion, that's definitely a no no, i wun help. -
very funny.. im a poor student mah.. always say no money to pay bills or buy new yr clothes etc.. then 2 forumites offered to lend me money, but muz sign IOU and charge me interest.Originally posted by Devil1976:That's what I thought too. But often the way people work around can be quite different..
I nv even asked them for money. 
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These cases are different... They're just out for their own motives..Originally posted by browniebaobao:very funny.. im a poor student mah.. always say no money to pay bills or buy new yr clothes etc.. then 2 forumites offered to lend me money, but muz sign IOU and charge me interest. I nv even asked them for money. -
Anyway... Problem temporarily 'solved'... Money borrowed from another source...
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Originally posted by Devil1976:
yap, u must first know whether the person u r helping, is he trustworthy enough, is he worth the help u r offering, r u going to see yr money again??
Jiang qian shang gan qing... Somehow I very much agree with this saying... Not that such things cannot happen, but also depends on that person's attitude and whether the person can be trusted..?
Let me share with you my own experiences..
Like you, I had been cheated too... Once by an ex. The moment the money went over, the person just vanishes into thin air... It's not just the money somehow. But the trust and belief.. And just makes you feel 'cheap' somehow...? Betrayed.. Just for that kinda money...? I'm the kinda person who... When you have a problem, we sit down and try to figure out a solution together... Not through digging from a hole just to cover another...
Some time after that, I was borrowed money by a friend again... Somehow I just didn't learn my lesson hard enough... Yup... Was a 'set up'... So when this person asked of me, I somehow just have LOTS of 'flashbacks'..... Knowing how STUPID I SHOULD be to AGREE... Just like a mad man running his way off a cliff... Is there no sure way to tell? But ALMOST all things POINTS to '[b]NO'. Why HESITATE? Why still so many QUESTIONS and DOUBTS? Why can't the things I've said to the person be taken SERIOUSLY? WHY RETURNED with LIES..? Then which FOLLOWS... WHY QUESTION my REJECTION then I KNOW WHAT YOU NEED, BUT WHY CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND MY STAND and SIMPLE ENGLISH...??
...... Why ask?
Another experience is when I was in sh|t.... DEBT and some STUPID MESSED UP CREDIT PROBLEMS which was really dealt up because of the provider's system faults... My BUDDIES GOT ME OUT OF IT.... That kinda TRUST and HELP... Just 2 QUESTIONS from them (btw, they're not very rich people and it wasn't a small sum...) They simply asked...
1. "How much you need?"
2. "When you need it...?"
After which they just asked me to give them some time to help me get the MONEY.... You KNOW HOW it FELT...?
[/b] -
~Haiz... I hate LIARS... Somemore ONE who can make STUPID EXCUSES for their lies....Originally posted by Kenashi:yap, u must first know whether the person u r helping, is he trustworthy enough, is he worth the help u r offering, r u going to see yr money again?? -
Tricky issue.
But if the person lied to me, I don't see a reason why should I spare my time and effort to assist him/her.
I will go all out to help my core buddies, but for the others, it depends.
P.S: When I cannot make a decision, I will consult astrology. Any transiting neptune affliction I will NOT lend... LOL!
Cheers